PITSpeedbird
Topic Author
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Rumor: WN PIT To SFO To Begin 08/07!

Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:47 pm

I have been a fan of airliners.net for about 7-8 years now - and have read the discussions with interest almost every day since. This is my first post so go easy!

I was at PIT last night, and talked to one of the WN employees. I asked if there was any new WN
service expected for PIT in the following year. She told me in addition to BWI which starts 3/11/07 - other service
which has not been officially announced yet includes:

SFO - (!!) - to begin in August 2007,

and - she also mentioned:

CLT - (?) -
which isn't even a Southwest City yet. Does anyone know if WN is planning on expanding service to CLT?

Certainly a PIT - CLT route would be another blow at USAirways. And more good news for a great airport!

The PIT - SFO transcon is certainly a welcome addition.

- PITSpeedbird
you leave. Arrive before
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Rumor: WN PIT To SFO To Begin 08/07!

Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:11 am

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Thread starter):

Wow!!! Now that is interesting, especially CLT service given that it is not a WN city. I wonder if that will be a startup route for CLT service. Oh man. I just figured, good startup cities for CLT (in addition to PIT) would be PHL, BWI, MDW, LAS, PHX, and MCO. Three of those cities are hubs for US. If they are talking about starting service to CLT and one of the first routes going to PIT, that says something. I don't know whether or not that would seriously happen, but now you got me going!

Oh, and welcome aboard to A.net!

Let the games begin!!!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
BigGSFO
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Rumor: WN PIT To SFO To Begin 08/07!

Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:32 am

Welcome to A.net.  Smile

SFO-PIT would be nice, but it does seem a little odd to be one of WN's first destinations on returning to San Francisco. Nonetheless WN is very good at plugging P2P flights in underserved/overpriced markets.
 
PITSpeedbird
Topic Author
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Rumor: WN PIT To SFO To Begin 08/07!

Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
SFO-PIT would be nice, but it does seem a little odd to be one of WN's first destinations on returning to San Francisco.

I agree - the route would be great for decreasing fares between PIT and SFO - I am excited.
However - it's not "would be good," - I talked to 2 emplyees last night, and they both seemed to agree on SFO service being a reality - they only disagreed on the start date - one said December - the other said August.

Now all they need is a Pittsburgh Stillers plane!

- PITSpeedbird
you leave. Arrive before
 
steeler83
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Rumor: WN PIT To SFO To Begin 08/07!

Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 3):
Now all they need is a Pittsburgh Stillers plane!

LOL...

Off topic, I am a little irked at them releasing Joey Porter in free agency. That has to be one of the stupidest things the Stillers have done! Anymore stupid maneuvers and the Stillers will have pretty much lost their identity. One of the teams they're talking about him going to is Cleveland. I think that would be one of the LAST cities for him to go to...  hissyfit  hissyfit  hissyfit 

Anyway... I said above. It is interesting for PIT to become a startup city for another market. I would love for this to be a reality!  biggrin 
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
jdwfloyd
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Rumor: WN PIT To SFO To Begin 08/07!

Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:46 am

It would be nice to see either of those happen, but I just don't see it. The PIT-SFO route doesn't make sense. If there were a market for an additional 130 or so seats between the two UA or US would be running them. If there were more connections on either end of the flight it could work, but both stations are small in comparison to WNs other markets. The flight would have to rely on just OD numbers, and the people are not there for a daily trans-con. I don't see WN using an aircraft up for an entire day just for the handful of people that would use such a route.

As for CLT I don't think that the gate space is there. If I remember correctly FL had a hell of a time securing gate space a year or two ago. If WN could open a few dailies from CLT I doubt they would include PIT right off the bat.


The next directs for WN if PIT gets any would probably include FLL, DAL, HOU, or MCI. I would love to see a PVD or BDL in the mix, but with BWI opening up the can put the people through there.
 
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ERJ170
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Rumor: WN PIT To SFO To Begin 08/07!

Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:03 am

I have to agree...

First of all.. CLT.. though I am sure WN will be targeting CLT in the future, the logistics are not there right now. Gate space is unavailable and WN likes to go in with at least 3 gates.. preferably 4. Also with the fact that FL already serves a lot of the markets that WN would be looking to start (BWI, MCO, MDW?), it looks like it may be a farther future than previously thought. But one would never know.

As far as PIT-SFO.. sounds interesting. If it is true, congratulations for PIT. If PIT gets SFO, I would expect the announcement to also include PVD, MHT, PHL, BWI, MCO, TPA, STL, MCI, RDU, and MDW.. (although I wouldn't expect BNA which would really be a shame).. but, again.. one would never know..
Aiming High and going far..
 
PITSpeedbird
Topic Author
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 5):
The next directs for WN if PIT gets any would probably include FLL, DAL, HOU, or MCI.

Is there really a market for PIT - MCI ?

- PIT SPEEDBIRD
you leave. Arrive before
 
steeler83
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 7):
Is there really a market for PIT - MCI ?

Apparently with YX on that route with a 717 (being downgraded to a CRJ for some bizarre reason), but I don't think WN will be flying that route anytime soon.

Off topic, to go back to the above statement with YX. Their PIT-MCI flight did very well. Is this downgrade to ONE CRJ temporary until they get more aircraft? Why sacrafice that 717? Are they looking for something more profitable than PIT to fly it on? Really, that PIT-MCI flight, according to flypittsburgh and Midwest Airlines, that flight was very successful.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:32 am

I say MCI because of the network WN has set up there. WN serves many west coast and midwest cites from MCI that would tie into the PIT network nicely.
 
tooluther
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:50 am

Maybe we'd be looking at a PIT-SFO "direct flight" but not a "non-stop"rnone. So MDW is almost a given for the SFO launch, so maybe it'd be arntag on from there.

PIT-CLT seams to be always packed to the gills these days on US, but I always figured that was just connecting traffic etc.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:23 am

Perhaps they misunderstood and just meant any new service period, not from PIT.

Anyway, SFO will have 20 nonstops to OAK, then make connections from there.  Wink
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
vega
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see either of those happen, but I just don't see it. The PIT-SFO route doesn't make sense. If there were a market for an additional 130 or so seats between the two UA or US would be running them.

Here are the latest PIT to SFO Numbers (7-9/2006):
Total Average daily Passengers = 370
US Airways Share = 193 (+- 2) - All Non-Stops
Other Airlines Share = 177 (+-2) - All Connections

That implies that WN has a lot of room to expand (approx. 177 Daily Passengers) to a PIT-SFO non-stop, of course at the expense of other connecting carriers (UA, etc.). Looks to me as though this is a perfectly logical move for WN - although a little risk possibly in the Winter months. The reason US doesn't add more flights is probably because with the current aircraft it uses on this route, it's average load factor is about 73% - leaving room to grow.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:34 am

Why would they run SFO out of PIT when there are some many better options on the east coast as far as yields go. I would think that PIT would come long after PHL, IAD, BWI, PVD, BDL, and their big Florida markets get directs. For that matter there are other west coast cities that would do better than SFO out of PIT for WN. Sending an A/C to OAK or LAX would offer more connection opportunities for WN passengers.

If this were to happen I would like to see UA come in to defend their hub in SFO with a daily 319 to PIT. But once again I don't think the money or passengers are there to warrant tieing up an A/C for 10+ hours each day. Maybe in a few years once WN builds SFO up or US drops their nonstop.
 
atct
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:47 am

Im looking to RSW or HOU as the next city to be served from PIT.

USA3000 and US do well on the PIT-RSW and only CO serves Houston-PIT direct since US has pulled the plug on Pittsburgh.

ATCT
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vega
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 13):
Why would they run SFO out of PIT when there are some many better options on the east coast as far as yields go.....

I don't think anyone is implying that WN would not also start non-stop services to other cities near the same time as to PIT. I think one answer to your ? is competition for a non-stop SFO route. Currently PIT has only 2 non-stop flights to SFO - 1 of which is summer only, whereas PHL, for example has 8 or 9 between US and UA. Further, when WN starts SFO, they surely aren't going to start with just 2 or 3 cities. I really can't see the advantage of SFO-PVD or SFO-BDL over SFO-PIT in your example. PIT has slightly more O&D than BDL and a lot more than PVD.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:12 am

Just to play devil's advocate...

I will look at it this way...

PIT already has non-stop flights to SFO, whereas other WN markets have no non-stop flights and therefore WN would have an unserved market to tap from.. so I could possibly see PIT as a lower priority..

PHL, BWI, BNA, MCO, MDW obviously get a higher priority because they are hub-esque for WN.

But I just wanted to throw it out there.. whether or not it happens, only time will tell.. but if it were me, I would look for high O&D destinations without service AND my major connecting spots and start from there.. then look at where there are destinations that already has non-stops with high fares and go there next.. then look at destinations with non-stops that there is enough connecting O&D to completely fill a plane and then try there..

but that might just be my crazy arsed way of thinking....
Aiming High and going far..
 
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SANFan
Posts: 3745
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 11):
Perhaps they misunderstood and just meant any new service period, not from PIT.



Quoting Vega (Reply 12):
Looks to me as though this is a perfectly logical move for WN



Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 13):
Why would they run SFO out of PIT when there are some many better options on the east coast as far as yields go.

Quite a variety of opinions on this one (so unlike A.net threads...  Wink ) Personally I like #1 best; MtnWest's suggestion makes the most sense.

I agree with you too, Jdw' -- SF to PIT makes no sense. At a newly-opening station, committing one whole precious a/c to a route to a small-medium (Division IV, I believe) station would not be the WN-Way. Vega, I disagree with you by about 180 degrees.

WN has a whole slew of potential destinations they could connect with PIT, including 3 of their existing Top-10 stations (OAK, SAN & LAX.) Only 1, LA, has year-round service on US, OAK has no other PIT service and SAN gets summer only service. SFO is the only other West Coast city that sees year-round PIT n/s on US. I just can't imagine why WN would not connect anything West of PHX and LAS for all this time and then suddenly jump on SF as its first West Coast destination.

I also think CLT is extremely unlikely as a new station this year. I know Gary K. last year said, "No new cities in 2007", and, oooops, here comes SFO. There is absolutely NO WAY that WN would have the equipment to start up 2 pretty good sized stations in the second half of the same year. This is supposed to be a "connect-the-dots" growth period and that's already been screwed up big-time with the addition of one city, let alone opening another one too? No way!

I'd bet a buck that SFO will see the return to the 2 cities that saw service when WN left in 2001, SAN & PHX, plus probably LAS and perhaps MDW. And I think August might be a bit earlier for the start-up than expected. I think Fall was the time frame given. But...

And I would expect CLT will be one of the next new cities invaded by WN but I would suggest 2008 at the earliest.

And welcome to A.net, PITSpeedbird.

bb
 
Lexy
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 16):
PHL, BWI, BNA, MCO, MDW obviously get a higher priority because they are hub-esque for WN.

Precisely. These are the markets that get first dibbs on the WN flights because of their "Focus City" status. At least from the beginning, then WN fills in the gaps as time and traffic go along. All of these markets would present good O&D after a little time to PIT and/or CLT.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
coleplane
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:54 pm

RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Thread starter):
This is my first post so go easy!

Welcome PITSpeedbird.

I guess this means our spotting's not going to be enhanced.  irked 
"About a nine on the tension scale there Rupe."
 
Ward86IND
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:13 am

RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):
Off topic, I am a little irked at them releasing Joey Porter in free agency. That has to be one of the stupidest things the Stillers have done! Anymore stupid maneuvers and the Stillers will have pretty much lost their identity. One of the teams they're talking about him going to is Cleveland. I think that would be one of the LAST cities for him to go to...

As much as I hate to see him go, the Steelers DO know when their linebackers don't have much more left in the tank. Think about all our star linebackers we've released and what they've done in following years...Brown, Kirkland, Lloyd, Greene...goes on and on...they drop off the face of the earth. Someone else will step up; they always do. Porter is mainly just a product of a great system, and next year it will show...and if he goes to Cleveland he will probably have to stop fighting their players...

On topic: Yay for more Pittsburgh WN service!
Live your dream.
 
PITSpeedbird
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:25 pm

RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:04 pm

Quoting Coleplane (Reply 19):
I guess this means our spotting's not going to be enhanced. irked

I don't get it - Please explain.

- PITSpeedbird
you leave. Arrive before
 
luketenley
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:51 am

RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:39 pm

Well they would have the gate space at PIT. They are remodeling A5 now for the new BWI service. WN will be taking over A5 permenantly now.
Pittsburgh International Airport lover
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:42 pm

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 11):
Anyway, SFO will have 20 nonstops to OAK,

Are we talking about the BART train? How many non stops to SJC will SFO get?
 
iowaman
Posts: 3874
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RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:04 pm

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Thread starter):
SFO - (!!) - to begin in August 2007,

PIT-SFO will never happen anytime in the next few years on WN for several reasons, let alone one of the first cities:

PIT is a small WN station

SFO obviously and wont be in the near future a top 10 WN city

WN has higher O&D markets with no competition to put their planes

This route would tie up a plane a good chunk of the day with most likely mediocre performance

Quoting ATCT (Reply 14):
Im looking to RSW or HOU as the next city to be served from PIT.

 checkmark  Finally someone reasonable here.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 17):
I'd bet a buck that SFO will see the return to the 2 cities that saw service when WN left in 2001, SAN & PHX, plus probably LAS and perhaps MDW.

 checkmark   checkmark 
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Rumor:

Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:34 pm

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 20):
if he goes to Cleveland he will probably have to stop fighting their players...

Or possibly become the TO of 07... ok, back to da topic here...

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 20):
Yay for more Pittsburgh WN service!

DITTO! Big grin

Quoting Vega (Reply 15):
I don't think anyone is implying that WN would not also start non-stop services to other cities near the same time as to PIT. I think one answer to your ? is competition for a non-stop SFO route. Currently PIT has only 2 non-stop flights to SFO - 1 of which is summer only, whereas PHL, for example has 8 or 9 between US and UA. Further, when WN starts SFO, they surely aren't going to start with just 2 or 3 cities. I really can't see the advantage of SFO-PVD or SFO-BDL over SFO-PIT in your example. PIT has slightly more O&D than BDL and a lot more than PVD.

I actually agree with your thoughts as to why PHL might not be suitable to try from PHL. Lots of competition, and not to mention, how about typically bigger planes? I mean, huge O&D pool with huge O&D pool with PHL and SFO...

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 24):

Hey, to be quite frank, I am a bit surprised at this. I would never expect to see PIT as a start up city for any market for any airline. When a rumor as such gets started, it's just hard not to talk about it. I just would like to see it if indeed it does happen.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 24):
PIT is a small WN station

With only 23 flights to 7 cities, yes that is small, but there are several rumors that WN plans to grow this (this being one of those several rumors)

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 22):
Well they would have the gate space at PIT. They are remodeling A5 now for the new BWI service. WN will be taking over A5 permenantly now.

I guess PIT is pretty much a US vs WN market... Kinda like PHL on a smaller scale...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
coleplane
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:54 pm

RE: Rumor:

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 21):
Please explain.

Sure. WN means another 737. I simply wish we had a little better variety of airlines and aircraft here in PIT.
"About a nine on the tension scale there Rupe."
 
WN57787
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 am

RE: Rumor:

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:44 am

The only New service that WN has out of PIT is Non Stop service to BWI starting the 11th of March.. one of the Flights will go on to RSW, also the Early am MDW flt use to Continue to LAX will now go to MCI. But as fair as we know here in PIT there is no other new service for WN.. SFO will Re-Join the WN family some time this Fall..
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Rumor:

Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 27):
But as fair as we know here in PIT there is no other new service for WN..

D'OH!!!

Quoting WN57787 (Reply 27):
SFO will Re-Join the WN family some time this Fall..

So much for that rumor then...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
PITSpeedbird
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:25 pm

RE: Rumor:

Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:38 am

Are you sure -

I talked to 2 separate WN employees at PIT - and they both said SFO independently!!
you leave. Arrive before
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: Rumor:

Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 29):
Are you sure -

I talked to 2 separate WN employees at PIT - and they both said SFO independently!!



I could see it happening. I would think it would be something like PHL-PIT-SFO. So, to the PHL people its a one stop, and to the PIT people its non-stop. WN could drop of 50 or 60 paxs in PIT and put on several more and no need to stop anywhere else. I'm beginning to trust these rumors here on a-net, it seems they are normally correct. You talked to two employees, so that's good enough for me!
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Rumor:

Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 30):
Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 29):
Are you sure -

I talked to 2 separate WN employees at PIT - and they both said SFO independently!!



I could see it happening. I would think it would be something like PHL-PIT-SFO. So, to the PHL people its a one stop, and to the PIT people its non-stop. WN could drop of 50 or 60 paxs in PIT and put on several more and no need to stop anywhere else. I'm beginning to trust these rumors here on a-net, it seems they are normally correct. You talked to two employees, so that's good enough for me!

Then again, WN has done things that were unexpected, and things worked out for them... (see also: PHL???)
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
luketenley
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:51 am

RE: Rumor:

Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:34 pm

If I run into any WN employees Wednesday at work I will ask them.
Pittsburgh International Airport lover
 
BN727flyr
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:06 am

RE: Rumor:

Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 29):
Are you sure -

I talked to 2 separate WN employees at PIT - and they both said SFO independently!!

Sorry to dash everybody's hopes, but...

Sounds to me like the WN employees were speaking about new WN service in general, systemwide. SFO service should, indeed, start in August... but not to/from PIT.

And if CLT happens, again, it won't be served initially from PIT.
 
willbdsp
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:15 am

RE: Rumor:

Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:40 pm

I'd love to see PIT-LAX on WN. US has one flight in each direction nonstop. The LAX-PIT is a red-eye flight. I don't want to fly OVER Pittsburgh and then fly back to it.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Rumor:

Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:49 am

Quoting Willbdsp (Reply 34):
I'd love to see PIT-LAX on WN. US has one flight in each direction nonstop. The LAX-PIT is a red-eye flight. I don't want to fly OVER Pittsburgh and then fly back to it.

That one frequency goes to two in the summer, with either an A319 or an A320. I think it's going to be another A319 IIRC, as I believe an A320 is that one frequency already on that route...

I guess Parker is afraid of WN... WN is already very well stationed at PHL. I guess he wants to keep WN as far at bay as he can at the "other" major US base. (Yes, LAS and PHX are hubs for US, but WN was already a stronghold long before the US/HP merger gave US those markets)

You know what I can't believe, I accessed the newly designed Star Alliance website and looked up US Airways... PIT is still recognized as a hub for US...

Returning to that statement above, why else would Parker add frequencies at PIT? ACAA is/or at least was talking with other LCCs like F9 (DEN-PIT service), and WN wants to grow PIT. I believe that US added another frequency to DEN, or was that just UA that did that? I guess WN is looking into doing transcons from PIT, and if this is the case; LAX would be a good one to try IMO. He (Parker) knows that with US' diminished presence at PIT and its relatively weaker stronghold on the market, PIT is "vulnerable" to LCCs. US' size is small, but I guess it's big enough to give them the slight edge in the LCC war in PIT... I suppose this could be a good argument as to why a second focus city by another airline in PIT would be impossible, as much as I would love to see this...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
luketenley
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:51 am

RE: Rumor:

Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 35):
I suppose this could be a good argument as to why a second focus city by another airline in PIT would be impossible, as much as I would love to see this...

For this to happen, I think US would have to cut more flights. Maybe go down to 100 daily flights. This would give another airline room to make PIT a focus city for them. US still has an edge over the LCC's.

Quoting Willbdsp (Reply 34):
I'd love to see PIT-LAX on WN. US has one flight in each direction nonstop. The LAX-PIT is a red-eye flight. I don't want to fly OVER Pittsburgh and then fly back to it.

Id love to see this. I am going to LA this coming week.
Pittsburgh International Airport lover

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