CX747
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Continental And The 747-8?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:44 am

Over the past decade, Continental has expanded its international services dramatically. I know that they "maximize" the potential of their aircraft ala 757s across the pond. With that being said, what is the chances of CO ordering several 747-8s for their growing Pacific Rim operations? Surely they could use the increased lift to HKG?
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PC12Fan
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:46 am

Not gonna happen. As much as I'd love to see it, the closest to this they will get to this is the 777-300ER. Which I think is very probable under the right conditions.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:48 am

Why add another fleet type. They got rid of the 747s they have to reduce the fleet. Why not add 777s. They already have them, and they have the legs.

CO will continue to play it smart in their fleet structure, I don't see any 747s in their future.
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Stitch
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:08 am

Agreed that it is not going to happen. They will stay with the 777-200ER and (eventually) 787-10 as their top end, putting frequency over raw capacity.
 
COSPN
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:31 pm

no 747's for CO Been there done that...Only place CO could use them are EWR- India Asia/ TLV CO will never get a plane that cant be used system wide. EWR/IAH - Europe/ S. America
 
acidradio
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:17 pm

The problem is that the 748 could only be used on a handful of CO routes, which makes it rather inflexible. The 777 (and the 787 soon), while not 100% perfect for every mission, definately gets the job done and has lots of flexibility for CO.

Some airlines have very specialized fleets for specific markets - as an example, NW with their separate trans-Pacific and trans-Atlantic fleets. Nowadays, the 747s are all dedicated for flights to NRT, while all the AMS work is done with the 333 and 332. OK, there are the west coast-NRT flights on the 332 as well, but what I'm getting at is the fact that the 777, which CO uses regularly for both trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific runs was deemed by NW to be too heavy for its trans-Atlantic runs. The 777 would have been a nice trans-Pacific machine for NW too, but NW was intent on buying it with PW engines, which did not offer the economics that they were looking for. Somewhere, CO decided that the flexibility of using the 777 for just about everything outweighed any additional weight penalty.

And for most US airlines, unless there is a real big Asian presence (ala NW and UA), the 748 is not real practical. 300-seat and less aircraft have proven to be the most practical options for most US operators doing international service, as US airlines tend to rely more on frequency of service than operators in other parts of the world. This is why NW and UA are the only US-based 747 operators left, and that nobody in the US has bought a pax version 380 yet.

CO is really placing a lot of it's future international expansion plans on the 787. No, not nearly as big as the 748, but it will offer the size and range that CO is looking for.
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MX757
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:24 pm

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 1):
Not gonna happen. As much as I'd love to see it, the closest to this they will get to this is the 777-300ER. Which I think is very probable under the right conditions.

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STT757
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:27 pm

CO likes to add stretch models to existing lines rather than add new types.

737-500, 737-300, 737-700, 737-800, 737-900, 737-900ER

757-200, 757-300

767-200, 767-400

777-200ER, 777-300ER

The 777-300ER is a natural extension of their fleet plan, keep the commanality with existing aircraft while growing capacity.
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Tristarfreak
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:20 am

I wouldn't expect to see the 747-8 with CO anytime soon more like he 773 like everyone said above
 
ikramerica
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:04 am

The closest CO will come to a 748 is when one of their jets taxies past an LH 748 parked at IAH Terminal D.
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Lostmoon744
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:38 am

Anyone know when CO expects their first 787?
Thanks
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mush
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
The closest CO will come to a 748 is when one of their jets taxies past an LH 748 parked at IAH Terminal D.

Or when they taxi past a British Airways 748 at Heathrow  Wink

P.S. Before you say I don't know what I'm talking about please notice the wink.
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MEACEDAR
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:54 am

What about the A350 for CO? I know they usually go with Boeing, but it would be nice to see CO livery on a Airbus.

Oh, by the way, the 748 and CO just don't work!!! Either stick with the 777 or go with the A350 or possibly the A330.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 12):
What about the A350 for CO? I

CO is as Boeing airline. They ordered the 787. Why would they buy a 350? Make no sense at all.
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SkyyMaster
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 12):
What about the A350 for CO? I know they usually go with Boeing, but it would be nice to see CO livery on a Airbus.

Even less likely than the 747-8. CO and Boeing are joined at the hip and that's not likely to change.
 
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STT757
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 10):
Anyone know when CO expects their first 787?

2009.
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rampart
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 12):
What about the A350 for CO? I know they usually go with Boeing, but it would be nice to see CO livery on a Airbus.

Oh, by the way, the 748 and CO just don't work!!! Either stick with the 777 or go with the A350 or possibly the A330.

Do a search in the database to find pictures of CO A300s in the old ("red meatball") and new (blue globe graticule) colors. Also, if you are lucky, you can also locate some drawings of CO's A340 they ordered prior to their last bankruptcy but then cancelled before taking delivery when Bethune was CEO. I have a picture of a CO A340 in one of my books, and I think some of the scale die-cast manufacturers offered them for a time.

Other than that, no chance of Airbus in CO fleet in the foreseeable future, barring merger or acquisition of another airline. IMHO.

-Rampart

Edited: I corrected myself above. I didn't know the A300s also existed in the new color scheme.

[Edited 2007-03-05 21:03:00]
 
cba
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 4):
CO will never get a plane that cant be used system wide

 checkmark 

And this is why CO has the highest aircraft utilization rates out of all the legacy carriers. They don't operate niche aircraft, and they don't have 2-3 different sub-configurations for their fleet types. It's not terribly exciting, but it makes money.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
The closest CO will come to a 748 is when one of their jets taxies past an LH 748 parked at IAH Terminal D.

Can't wait to see one of those new LH 747's parked at IAH... Maybe if KLM and BA order, we can see 3!

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 10):
Anyone know when CO expects their first 787?

They get 3 in 2009. Not sure exactly when in 2009, but I'd guess in the 3rd or 4th quarter.

CO could only make the 748 work on these routes EWR to India, China, Hong Kong, Tel Aviv, and Heathrow (presuming the new EU-US open skies agreement goes through and CO buys LHR slots). IAH-LHR and IAH-NRT could work as well. HOWEVER, this isn't going to happen. If CO needs bigger aircraft, the 773ER is the logical step as it maintains commonality with the 772ER. I think however that even adding the 773 is unlikely for now. If the 787's tap into some new markets in Asia that are cash cows, then I could see CO logically operating a few 773's, but not any time soon.
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 10):
Anyone know when CO expects their first 787?

2009.

Thank you for the reply. Looking forward to flying in them in the coming years.
Lostmoon744
 
highflyer9790
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 1):
Not gonna happen. As much as I'd love to see it, the closest to this they will get to this is the 777-300ER. Which I think is very probable under the right conditions.

 checkmark 
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dampfnudel
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting Mush (Reply 11):
Or when they taxi past a British Airways 748 at Heathrow Wink

P.S. Before you say I don't know what I'm talking about please notice the wink.

That may actually happen. You never know.
 
steeler83
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
The closest CO will come to a 748 is when one of their jets taxies past an LH 748 parked at IAH Terminal D.



Quoting Mush (Reply 11):
Or when they taxi past a British Airways 748 at Heathrow

D'OH! I was going to say that!

Still, good remarks though.

How about the closest they'll ever get to ANY 747s is when one of their aircraft passes by any 747s, whether they be BA, LH, VS, CX, what have you... Big grin
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Lemurs
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:29 am

CO adds capacity to their routes by adding frequencies with smaller aircraft, and then as demand increases, increasing the size of that 2nd flight until it demands another 777...if the demand is still there, they'll add a 3rd frequency. Their target customer is the business traveler who values schedule convenience over anything, all other things being equal. The best way to appeal to that traveler is by having more flights, not bigger aircraft. The more scheduled flights they can offer to a popular city pair, the happier CO is. That's why you're unlikely to ever see anything bigger than a 772 or 787-10 in their fleet as long as their current (working) strategy is in place.

They'll keep growing, but with more medium sized airframes, not bigger airframes.
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ikramerica
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:21 pm

Of course if they merge with UA or NW, all bets are off...  Wink
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steeler83
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:28 pm

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 22):
CO adds capacity to their routes by adding frequencies with smaller aircraft, and then as demand increases, increasing the size of that 2nd flight until it demands another 777...if the demand is still there, they'll add a 3rd frequency. Their target customer is the business traveler who values schedule convenience over anything, all other things being equal. The best way to appeal to that traveler is by having more flights, not bigger aircraft. The more scheduled flights they can offer to a popular city pair, the happier CO is. That's why you're unlikely to ever see anything bigger than a 772 or 787-10 in their fleet as long as their current (working) strategy is in place.

They'll keep growing, but with more medium sized airframes, not bigger airframes.

I think that's a rather smart way of growing internationally, as well as domestic, as opposed of buying large aircraft and throwing them onto routes you really don't know how they'll function/perform. Those larger aircraft typically mean higher costs/mx/etc... especially the 747. Granted the 748 is supposed to be less expensive than the 744, but I don't see it at all in CO's business approach...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
Of course if they merge with UA or NW, all bets are off...

oh good one...
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toxtethogrady
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:38 pm

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 22):
CO adds capacity to their routes by adding frequencies with smaller aircraft, and then as demand increases, increasing the size of that 2nd flight until it demands another 777

Yeah, but they take that philosophy to ridiculous lengths... using 8 RJ's a day between IAH and Nashville, for example. There's a limit to how many banks you can schedule through a hub airport in a day...
 
N1120A
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting Rampart (Reply 16):
Do a search in the database to find pictures of CO A300s in the old ("red meatball") and new (blue globe graticule) colors.

Sure, they got those from Eastern and it was way before a former Boeing executive saved the airline from what Frank Lorenzo did to it.

Quoting Cba (Reply 17):
They don't operate niche aircraft,

Over 1300 built and it is a niche aircraft?  sarcastic 
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Lemurs
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 25):
Yeah, but they take that philosophy to ridiculous lengths... using 8 RJ's a day between IAH and Nashville, for example. There's a limit to how many banks you can schedule through a hub airport in a day...

True...and they're scaling back on that quite a bit. They've been growing their 737 fleet and trimming the RJ fleet for a few years now, and that trend is only going to continue going forward. Still, for some routes you want that kind of frequency. I know plenty of people who essentially commute via airplane here, and Alaska does a good job offering almost hourly flights to the destinations where that might be true. PDX, SJC, and LAX flights out of SEA here are always pretty full, no matter time of day or night. It's something I find very helpful, and I am certain CO's business fliers do as well.

Still, it's just a matter of time before RJ ops in and out of EWR have to be scaled back for scheduling and sanity's sake.
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steeler83
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 27):
They've been growing their 737 fleet and trimming the RJ fleet for a few years now, and that trend is only going to continue going forward. Still, for some routes you want that kind of frequency.

Isn't CO going to use those for CLE expansion?
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cba
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
Quoting Cba (Reply 17):
They don't operate niche aircraft,

Over 1300 built and it is a niche aircraft? sarcastic

I wasn't saying that the 747 is a niche aircraft. In Continental's fleet however, it would be a niche aircraft for only a select few routes that could support it.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:05 am

I would love to see a 747-8 in CO colors, but Gordon said it best: CO has no need for a plane bigger than the 777-200. He said this in an interview when CO took delivery of the last 777 they had on order at the time in the inflight magazine.
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CALMSP
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:24 am

would be nice a/c on our new route coming up this year!!!!
 
iahflyer
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 31):
would be nice a/c on our new route coming up this year!!!!

Any hints, or when we can expect an anouncement????????? My guess is to Europe somewhere from IAH, I hope!!!
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
N1120A
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:49 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 29):
In Continental's fleet however, it would be a niche aircraft for only a select few routes that could support it.

I tend to agree, though I do believe that CO could get a fair amount of value out of the aircraft. Markets like LGW could well be made more profitable with the 748 as they could consolidate the current 772ER + 757 onto one aircraft, allowing the 757 to be used on another smaller EU city route and the 777 to move into another market, or potentially go back to MAN for cargo and free up even more 757s. Further, they could stop taking weight restrictions on EWR-HKG and operate more ideally into India. There could well be a place for it, but I tend to agree that the 772, particularly since they operate with a bit higher density, tends to be the right size for them.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 30):
CO has no need for a plane bigger than the 777-200.

And that is completely true. The way Continental's route structure works, they rely heavily on O&D out of EWR and a combination of connections and O&D out of IAH. Even though Houston is a very strong business market, it simply doesn't generate the demand even with connections to necessitate a larger aircraft, while competition in New York means that CO works better keeping their trip costs lower at the expense of the CASM gains that the 747 or 773ER would allow.
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CALMSP
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:05 am

IAHFLYER............you and i could only dream............unfortunately our dreams are not going to happen  Sad
 
Glareskin
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
Of course if they merge with UA or NW, all bets are off...

And this will be signed the day that US is taking over DL....
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
iahflyer
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:02 am

I hope CO's new route is from CLE to Europe!!!

[Edited 2007-03-07 02:33:47]
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
CALMSP
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:38 am

DAYflyer.......there are a number of routes that a 777-300 warrants......HNL/GUM/DEL to name a few.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 36):
I hope CO's new route is from CLE to Europe!!!

Yep, it's going to be a 748 CLE-MUN...  Smile
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
fun2fly
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:29 am

What's the downside risk of a 6-8 aircraft subfleet of 777-300er's for CO? Certainly could sublease these easily if they don't work out.

Surely could use:

- 2 on EWR >TLV+LGW,
- 2 on EWR>DEL
- 1 on EWR>FCO (vs 762 and 764)
- 1 on EWR>CDG (2 daily vs 3)
other expansions, etc...

Gotta believe Boeing could squeeze them out for CAL as they are a prime dedicated customer.

However, seems way out of character for CO to expand beyond their means.
 
N1120A
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 38):
Yep, it's going to be a 748 CLE-MUN...

Would be interesting to see a 748I get off the 6890' runway at MUN  Wink

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 39):
What's the downside risk of a 6-8 aircraft subfleet of 777-300er's for CO?

Well, cost is one thing. The 77W is currently the most expensive aircraft in active service.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: Continental And The 747-8?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:48 pm

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 27):
Still, it's just a matter of time before RJ ops in and out of EWR have to be scaled back for scheduling and sanity's sake.

It's also a matter of time before they end up with 70- and 90-seat aircraft. Er, jets. They've got a huge void between the seat capacity of the E145 and the seat capacity of the 737-500.

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