FriendlySkies
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UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:26 am

I had heard about the peeling new c/s UA jets, but finally see one here. Does anyone with UA know what they plan to do about this? Obviously they got a crappy paint job (and for what they probably paid, can't expect much more) but this is pretty bad, especially since this aircraft was not even painted a year ago.


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scorpy
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:28 am

even if they get a free paint job, i doubt they will be reimbursed for the time this aircraft spends out of service being repainted. If so many of their aircraft are in this condition, i guess they got what they paid for.
 
socalfive
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:51 am

It appears as though they weren't stripped, just painted over the old colors. Not good.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:05 am

I work for UA at PDX. I see the 737's come in all the time looking like !@#$. A VP was here last week telling us how great everything is at United. Someone mentioned the piss poor paint jobs, and his response was "I haven't noticed". I expect nothing less from upper management!
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:19 am

I saw a UA 757 at SAN last night that had a HUGE area above the titles where paint had peeled away. Sad...
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WesternDC1010
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:24 am

Does UA paint their own planes or is the work contracted out? I've seen a few Southwest planes with fading and peeling paint as well and do you think that maybe some of the peeling and fading is due to de-icing? I mean, the paint shouldn't just peel like that, but I guess cheap budgeting for cheap paint will lead to this.

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D950
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 4):
I saw a UA 757 at SAN last night that had a HUGE area above the titles where paint had peeled away. Sad...

I was on the 757 in question going DEN-DFW, pathetic, but still better than the deterioriating gray on the rest of the fleet.
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cactusmurf
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:35 am

Unfortunately, this problem isn't only with United, I work in ops. and on the ramp for USAirways at SMF, which is an all America West station, and a lot of the new paint jobs are already starting to peel away, especially around the engine cowlings. And of course, US is doing this on the cheap because they just painted over the America West scheme, so as the paint chips away, you can see America West colors. Pretty tacky, but not suprised.
 
atlaaron
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:38 am

I noticed that the tails of TED aircraft appears to be very faded as well. Or is that the color they are supposed to be?
 
IPFreely
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 2):
It appears as though they weren't stripped, just painted over the old colors. Not good.

Is that normal? I'm sure stripping the old paint costs money, but so does leaving several hundred pounds of paint on an aircraft that flies every day.

Quoting Ramprat74 (Reply 3):
A VP was here last week telling us how great everything is at United. Someone mentioned the piss poor paint jobs, and his response was "I haven't noticed".

Did he fly in and out on regular UA flights or on a corporate jet?
 
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ramprat74
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:19 am

Quoting WesternDC1010 (Reply 5):
Does UA paint their own planes or is the work contracted out?

United hasn't painted its own planes in years. They closed the paint shop at SFO do to the far left people complaining about the fumes in the air. Most of the aircraft are painted by a third party company at VCV.

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 9):
Did he fly in and out on regular UA flights or on a corporate jet?

They fly on United.
 
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RedTailDTW
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:28 am

Have any of the United Express planes shown any peeling?
Airlines Flown: AA, CO, HP, MQ, NW, RP, UA, US, WN, YX / Aircraft Flown: 737-200/300/700/800, 757-200/300, 777-200, A319/A320/A321, DC-9-30/50, DC-10-40, ERJ 140/145, E170, MD80/83/90
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting RedTailDTW (Reply 11):
Have any of the United Express planes shown any peeling?

I haven't noticed any peeling, but of course, a lot of the UEX birds entered service after the new livery was released and have only been painted in those colors.
Good goes around!
 
N1120A
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 2):
It appears as though they weren't stripped, just painted over the old colors. Not good.

Which strikes me as absolutely ridiculous, given that UA's painting schedule is supposed to go along with their C-Check schedule, where aircraft are stripped anyway.

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 8):
Or is that the color they are supposed to be?

The Ted tails are supposed to be a yellow, which may be why you thought they were faded

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 9):
Is that normal? I'm sure stripping the old paint costs money, but so does leaving several hundred pounds of paint on an aircraft that flies every day.

Yeah, it seems quite counter-intuitive to just paint over the aircraft.

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 9):


Did he fly in and out on regular UA flights or on a corporate jet?

United executives fly positive space, particularly when on company business.
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atlaaron
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:35 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
The Ted tails are supposed to be a yellow, which may be why you thought they were faded

Well I thought they were supposed to be like a golden, or orange but I noticed they appear to be a pale yellow. So I was not sure if that was faded or if that was the actually color they were shooting for.
 
socalfive
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:41 am

Well whether they're not stripping the aircraft then painting, or they're not using a sealer over the Aluminum and the paint isn't sticking. We know when done right the paint does indeed stick, nothing leaves A or B and peels within a year!
 
FA4UA
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:58 pm

I recently asked about this... apparently it's a 737 and 757 problem for birds painted in 2006. Maintenance is VERY aware of the problem and is addressing it. There is some sort of corrosion protectant underneith the paint so the metal should be fine according to my source at SFOLM. Sorry I can't get into specifics...
The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:54 am

Well if it matters, aircraft paint is usually only warrantied for 3 years weather it's a repaint or brand new out of the factory. Also if an airplane is flying in a lot of icing and dusty areas that will effect the paint life also.
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flyorski
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:00 am

I've noticed peeling paint on a few DL birds as well. Is this normal for virtually every airline nowadays?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting FA4UA (Reply 16):
I recently asked about this... apparently it's a 737 and 757 problem for birds painted in 2006. Maintenance is VERY aware of the problem and is addressing it. There is some sort of corrosion protectant underneith the paint so the metal should be fine according to my source at SFOLM. Sorry I can't get into specifics...

What would make this issue specific to certain fleet types? Is there something in particular that would make this happen just on the 737 and 757? Just wondering.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
EMBQA
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting Ramprat74 (Reply 10):
Most of the aircraft are painted by a third party company at VCV.

Most UAL aircraft are painted in AMA and GLH. Last I knew, both UAL and USAirways planes were painted by the same company. Peeling paint is the result of one thing.... Poor preperation. It can be anything from not removing all contaminants to allowing the primer to dry. Top coat must be shot on within an hour or two of primer application.

Quoting WesternDC1010 (Reply 5):
I've seen a few Southwest planes with fading

Southwest planes are fading because they went with Canyon Blue......!!! That color has a high blue/purple content which fades quickly under sunlight...UV light

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 2):
It appears as though they weren't stripped, just painted over the old colors. Not good.

Not good why....?? 'Scuff and paint' is very common and is a good, quick way to repaint....plus you have very little Haz-Mat to deal with. I'd say 60% of the planes I've over seen being painted were done just this way.
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Bicoastal
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting Ramprat74 (Reply 10):
They closed the paint shop at SFO do to the far left people complaining about the fumes in the air

Ah, yes. The same ones who are preventing SFO to expand into the bay to increase the separation between runways and thus allow simultaneous operation in bad weather.
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deltagator
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 18):
I've noticed peeling paint on a few DL birds as well. Is this normal for virtually every airline nowadays?

Were they in the Wavy Gravy paint scheme? I only ask because there are a few 767s and 757s left in the old Ron Allen colors that are definitely showing their paintjob age. Another thing to consider is the time between heavy maintenance checks for their planes. Wavy Gravy was introduced in 1999/2000 so if a plane hasn't undergone a big check since then or is coming close to being due for their next one you could have a paint job pushing 7 years old. I have noticed some of the 767s looking a little beat up on the nose and I recall one 757 that looked completely ghetto the way it was peeling and faded all over. Hopefully they got it in for a paint job since I haven't seen it in a few months.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
flyorski
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 22):
I recall one 757 that looked completely ghetto the way it was peeling and faded all over

Yeah that could be it. I was flying SLC-ORD-MUC-BRE (with LH and UA). On the ramp in SLC I saw the 757-200, and was very surprised because it looked like someone had scrapped a bunch of paint off the nose.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
quickmover
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting D950 (Reply 6):
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 4):
I saw a UA 757 at SAN last night that had a HUGE area above the titles where paint had peeled away. Sad...

I was on the 757 in question going DEN-DFW, pathetic, but still better than the deterioriating gray on the rest of the fleet.

I was on it for MCI-DEN Sunday. A huge area was bare metal. Several of the seat arm rests were duck taped down. I can't believe they haven't taken time to fix up this aircraft. Looked like something from the 3rd world. Pitiful.
 
N174UA
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting Ramprat74 (Reply 3):
A VP was here last week telling us how great everything is at United.

Probably just finished a Human Resources seminar. No HR person will ever complain about a company, ever. Plain and simple. They're the kind of folks who will boast what a glorious ship the Titanic is seconds before it slips in to icy waters. Those people remind me of the "shiny happy people" in the famous REM song from a few years back. I don't think very highly of HR people...very, very phony.

Quoting WesternDC1010 (Reply 5):
Does UA paint their own planes or is the work contracted out?

Used to be done by hard working, qualified workers like my grandfather down in San Francisco. And these issues weren't issues back then, not after only a year anyway. As Ramprat74 alluded to in the quote below, the citizens of the People's Republic of San Francisco decided they could smell the paint and quickly decided to put those people out a job. Hope they're happy. Plus, they were paid too well, so that had to end, now we have the shitty quality we see now from the low-cost workers down in VCV and AMA.

Quoting Ramprat74 (Reply 10):
They closed the paint shop at SFO do to the far left people complaining about the fumes in the air.
 
cancidas
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 4):
I saw a UA 757 at SAN last night that had a HUGE area above the titles where paint had peeled away. Sad...

think this was the same bird i was at LGA. looks shitty to say the least, worse that it's a new paint job.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
MCOflyer
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:00 am

Anyone have a picture of it?

MCOflyer
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donniecs
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:01 am

Deicing does damaged the paint over time.

http://www.dow.com/PublishedLiteratu...oreg/183-00003.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

On page 19 of the bulletin is a section titled UV Degradation, which states the following: Dye Fading. The dye in UCAR ADF/AAF ULTRA+ is designed to degrade upon exposure to UV. When exposed to UV light, UCAR ADF/AAF ULTRA+ will progressively fade in color.

There is some more articles out there about other damage that deice fluid will do to the paint other than fading, it can break down the compounds within the paint and so on over time. I'm sure a combination of not stripping the aircraft, cheap paint jobs, cheap materials and the amount and type of deicing all have an affect on the quality of a paint job over time. You get what you pay for in the long run.
Charlie - Gulfstream flight mechanic
 
platinumfoota
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:15 am

I totally agree. I work for UA and its mostly the 737 and 757 always in the same places, above the cockpit windows and the whole top of the aircraft. I agree it must have to do with deicing the aircraft. I know of a 757 (sorry i dont remember the tail number) that looked like someone just scraped the whole top of the aircraft. And ive only seen this on the new colors, intresting nothing seems to be wrong with the rest of the fleet.
Never forget United 93
 
hangarrat
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
United executives fly positive space,

Off topic, but what does that mean?

Also off topic, but did anyone else notice the Ocean Air F100 in the background of the lead off picture?
Spell check is a false dog
 
Morvious
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:34 am

Is it true that United did really paint over the old paint? Strange, I always thought that with D-Checks, you had to strip all the paint from the fuselage for a check.

Nice examples. You really can see what the atmosphere can do to things traveling through it. A hailstorm or two can help though  Wink
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
EMBQA
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 30):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
United executives fly positive space,

Off topic, but what does that mean?

That means they can't be bumped off a flight. The seat is assigned to them.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
MDorBust
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RE: UA - Warranty On Paint?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 18):
Is this normal for virtually every airline nowadays?

I bet American isn't having too many problems with paint peeling.  Wink
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