papatango
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:30 am

Rumors floating around about a new Delta intl gateway, any guess or predication welcome.
 
GSPITNL
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:32 am

LAX I would assume



Filler....
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rwsea
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 1):
LAX I would assume

LAX is already a DL international gateway, with many flights to Mexico, and a growing number to Central America.
 
haggis79
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:37 am

maybe BOS with all those 757s arriving...
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ConcordeBoy
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 3):
maybe BOS with all those 757s arriving...

...guess that gets down to what the concept of "new" is in this; seeing as the likes of DFW, MSY, PDX, MCO, BOS, etc could never technically be called 'new' gateways for that airline.  Smile
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RL757PVD
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:48 am

Have the gates they given up at MCO been scouped up? I always though MCO would make a good gateway. The airport has the proper facilities (runways and FIS) readily available as opposed to FLL and BOS which have FIS issues with regard to where DL is located at those airports....Or maybe PDX is comming back on?
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
deltasju777
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:07 am

Maybe HNL for a SYD route. Wherever it may be, my guess is the flights will be either:

1. South of the equator since on another thread I heard the announcement should come by May. That would give a few months to have flights in place for Soutern Hemisphere summer.

or

2. BOS with the new 757's coming in summer that can reach Europe from there. If they offer enough Intl flights maybe they can force Massport's hand into putting FIS in their new terminal.
 
MAH4546
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:34 am

It is going to really, really shock people if it happens.

[Edited 2007-03-07 23:42:50]
a.
 
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STT757
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:49 am

Im going to speculate and say MIA, MCO or PDX.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Alitalia744
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:52 am

guys this subject is happening in the "rumor mill" thread.

it's interesting, shocking and ballsy if it comes to fruition.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
cba
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:55 am

Regarding PDX, DL already tried that years ago and it didn't work out. Remember all of those PDX-Japan flights on the MD-11 in the mid-late 90's?
 
Lono
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:58 am

Would be cool to see DL build up SEA......
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STT757
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:59 am

Well a Pacific type hub does not make sense since they cannot acquire anymore Narita landing slots, why have a "hub" in Honolulu when you cannot serve the largest market (NRT-HNL).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
boch
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:59 am

SLC?

SLC has to be one of the largest hubs without international service in the US (Excluding flights to Canada and Mexico)

They already have a great feeder network in place.
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ConcordeBoy
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New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting Boch (Reply 13):
SLC has to be one of the largest hubs without international service in the US (Excluding flights to Canada and Mexico)

...which, and this might come as a shock to you, is ------------wait on it---------- INTERNATIONAL SERVICE  Yeah sure

If, however, you're speaking of intercontinental service-- the airline has already considered, then deferred perhaps indefinitely, the prospect of CDG/LGW from that gateway.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
boch
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:36 am

That's why I specifically excluded them, 'boy.

I could have used intercontinental, but that would leave out possible expansion to Central America and the Caribbean.
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MAH4546
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting Boch (Reply 15):

I could have used intercontinental, but that would leave out possible expansion to Central America and the
Caribbean.

Possible in what way? It isn't "possible" (as in feasable) from SLC. SLC will see Paris before Caribbean or Central America.

[Edited 2007-03-08 00:40:57]
a.
 
jetboy319
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:40 am

I would really love to see DL re-start PDX as an international gateway but I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Who knows though, stranger things have happened  Smile
 
FoxBravo
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
It is going to really, really shock people if it happens.

Now you've got me curious!  Smile

I'm going to guess FLL. DL has been building name recognition in Latin America rapidly over the past few years, and has done surprisingly well in a number of markets out of ATL simply due to the strength of that hub, but the element they have been missing is O&D traffic, which South Florida has. If they were to shift some of those cities to FLL (or add service in addition to existing ATL flights), they'd be able to offer connections to LGA, JFK, BOS, MCO, LAX, CVG and of course ATL (and maybe others I'm forgetting) right off the bat based on their existing network, and they'd also have the benefit of a strong local market.

MIA seems less likely, not so much because of AA, but because of facility limitations and lack of an existing presence. Then again, stranger things have happened in this industry.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
deltasju777
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:12 am

How far south can one of the ex TWA 757s make it into South America from FLL or even MCO. It would be ironic if they use the birds that they buy from AA competing directly against them from south florida to latin america.
 
njdevilsin03
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:16 am

Delta would be in one heck of a battle at FLL with Spirit. And I think the Customs facilities are pretty maxed out. But I'm still pulling for FLL and there is plenty of room for exapnsion at the D concourse in FLL right now.
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stirling
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:21 am

If it is going to be a "shocker"....

San Jose.

That's about as shocking as I get....
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HVNandrew
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
It is going to really, really shock people if it happens.

If it doesn't happen, will you tell us what the plan was in a few months?  Wink

I want PDX to reopen, but it will never happen, IMO. The west coast focus will be on LAX. Shame... PDX is a great airport to connect through.

My guess would be MCO as the gateway to Latin/South America.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:07 am

hint: the possibilities at this gateway are enormous; the expenditure minimal.

less than 3 days until it is known.
 
stirling
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:10 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 24):
hint: the possibilities at this gateway are enormous; the expenditure minimal.

DAYTON!
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MSYtristar
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:10 am

Fred, do you think we'll see the route which DL was planning on starting pre 9/11 with the 763ER? You know, the one that originated in DFW and stopped in a certain below sea level city before continuing to CDG?  Wink Of course the DFW tag wouldn't happen at this point....
 
aaway
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 24):
hint: the possibilities at this gateway are enormous; the expenditure minimal.

Facilities expenditures or competitive expenditures?
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
baw716
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:34 am

Well, let me throw my murky crystal ball into this discussion.

My educated guess is the new "gateway" will be BOS. As DL plans to use the 757 transatlantically, it could position the 757 from there and because it is 200nm or so closer to Europe than JFK, it could go to a lot of destinations that for JFK might be problematic. Now, IF DL is going to operate the international 757s with the Song configuration (except for a BusinessElite cabin in the front), the lower payload weight and the closer proximity to Europe could give it the range to make a lot of destinations on the continent that other carriers struggle making with their 757s.

Another argument for BOS as a 757 gateway is that it would relieve some of the overcrowding at JFK. Some of the connecting trafic that goes over JFK could be routed over BOS thereby relieving some of the congestion that occurs at JFK (and I've been in that terminal at peak hour, 5pm...it is truly ugly). Also, if what I have heard is true and DL is going to rebuild a terminal or two at JFK, it will need to give up some of the gate space. Having BOS as a gateway would relieve that pressure as well (ATL can take some of the additional load off of JFK).

Remember, we are talking about connecting traffic and while DL boards it's fair share of passengers out of JFK, the addition of BOS as a second northeast gateway will actually allow DL to grow its local market share at JFK without having to increase capacity.

And finally, there is the issue of weather. As we have experienced this year, JFK had to close for a block of time because of the weather. I'm sure, as one of the bigger operators at JFK, DL took it's share of hits. By spreading some of that traffic around, with weather problems, more traffic could be rerouted onto flights over ATL (which isn't affected by snow...usually). I'm speaking of west coast/midwest originating traffic that connects over these points that would be adversely affected by weather.

So that's it. My educated (or non-educated, depending upon your point of view) guess about the next DL gateway. The reason I don't see a west coast gateway for DL is that I don't see Delta getting larger on the west coast. They have almost no presence in Asia (aside from KEs code share and if it gets another Chinese partner), then there won't be much incentive for them to intiate more service in that direction. As for Latin America, they serve that pretty well now from Atlanta and to some degree from JFK and I don't see any growth in this direction for them.

Since their intention is to use the 757 across the Atlantic, it would make sense that they would need additional gates to handle them. JFK is maxed out, especially if any new buildings are going to be built. Since the 757 is range sensitive, it makes better sense to put the birds in a strategic strong location. BOS is that city. BOS has a lot of direct service both from DL hubs and from other cities. It wouldn't take a lot to put more feed into BOS and/or upgauge some of the equipment to BOS, which would add the extra capacity to base a fleet of 757s there.

Let's see if the annoucement (whenever it comes?) shows if I'm right.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
deltasju777
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 24):

BAKERSFIELD !
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:56 am

OK so here is my guesses

Obviously number one would be BOS for all the reasons mentioned above.

Number two, OAK. If they were trying to get a foothold on a local market with a large Asian passenger base the top two cities would be LA area and San Francisco Bay area. In the LA area they have already committed to LAX and there is too much OA service there for the "huge potential" mentioned above, not to mention that they are already a gateway city. For the Bay area, SFO is so UA. There is no way that they could crack that nut. However OAK would provide them with a good location, great facility's and good potential. Not to mention the shock potential that was alluded to above.

Number three, MSY. They could be seeing the opportunity to gain a foothold on the recent redevelopment of this key business market (high number of meetings there). Before the hurricane MSY was almost as large as LAS for that business.

The second two are far fetched ideas but DL has been doing a lot of that lately. Best of luck to them either way!

-m

 airplane 
 
RL757PVD
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:02 am

I did hear a rumor back in the summertime about London routes from MCO and it was tied to something about a MCO f/a base.

Another interesting thing, is a few of the freedom JFK DH8 cities are going to RJ, meaning that some could be freed up meaning either BOS... or the other freedom base....MCO ( i suppose FLL/MIA could also worktoo)

The thing MCO really has going for it is the FIS is located at their gates.

FLL is really maxed out already..esp INTL wise

MIA...dont know their gate situation...but AA has been stepping on DL's toes, perhaps they will return the favor....

BOS.... dont know if theyd have given up the gates if they had this planned..... airlines do quite a bit of strategic (several years out) planning....

Id rank it is MCO...BOS...MIA...FLL
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Evan767
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:04 am

Well let's see here.... LAX is already planned for Asia so that rules out another west coast international gateway. Europe is already covered, so I don't think it is BOS... Delta has stated their interest to expand southward so... my guess would be somewhere in Florida where Delta already has a strong hold and intra-florida flights, or MSY. So I say: MSY, JAX, MCO, TPA, FLL, or MIA.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Alitalia744
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:09 am

the news is on the horizon but the answers have already arrived.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
MAH4546
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:10 am

The answer is on Google News. Play around with some search terms at .Two articles give it away, one in a very subtle manner and the other one blatantly (though perhaps not intentionally). Both articles were actually published in February.
a.
 
aaway
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:11 am

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 28):
My educated guess is the new "gateway" will be BOS



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 9):
it's interesting, shocking and ballsy if it comes to fruition.

I'd tend to agree with Baw716 in his assessment for BOS. Allows DL to shore up its transatlantic position in the NE; frees JFK seats for NYC's O/D and, perhaps, reduces spill via ATL; Greater utilization of BOS facilities to curb costs; Some network connectivity, particularly on a regional basis, already exists, or is planned.

Yet, I have three issues with Baw's assessment - (A) BOS is often (more often than not) affected by the same weather systems that cripple NYC area airports - be it snow in winter, thunder in summer, or merely winds affecting runway configuration. Bad enough stranding JFK - woeful adding BOS to that mix. (B) Facilities - BOS as the new gateway would be a no-brainer if Term. A had FIS. And, as indicated in another thread, apparently E is maxed during the late-afternoon / mid-evening timeframe for arrivals. If DL were to capture online connections in addition to BOS bound O/D, seems that timeframe would be the most logical period from a scheduling standpoint. (C) A BOS announcement is, or has been, whats expected! Yet Alitalia744's post leads me to believe that DL will enter a unique (by DL standards) market, or one that will be highly competitive - and not necessarily US based competition.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
PVD757
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:16 am

well, word in here says "really shock(ing)", so to me, BOS isn't shocking at all since it's a focus city. BUT, it also meets the terms of enormous possibilities and little expenditure since Terminal A could easily handle more flights. I would say giving back the 9 gates would lessen the liklihood of BOS now though.


really really shocking would be PVD and I can say for sure (pretty sure anyway) that aint it!! unless DL wants in on the PVD-PDL market...

Historically strong DL markets that come to mind:

BDL - too close to BOS & JFK, limited FIS capabilites, but could happen IMO, would need LGW slot though
PBI - the SoFla to Caribbean market could heat up even more with this one
TPA - has the facility and a huge market
MCO - maybe at best
CMH - too close to CVG

since LAX, CVG, and SLC are already gateways, those are out.

I want to say BOS, but I'm just so confused...
 
FCYTravis
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 30):
Number two, OAK. If they were trying to get a foothold on a local market with a large Asian passenger base the top two cities would be LA area and San Francisco Bay area. In the LA area they have already committed to LAX and there is too much OA service there for the "huge potential" mentioned above, not to mention that they are already a gateway city. For the Bay area, SFO is so UA. There is no way that they could crack that nut. However OAK would provide them with a good location, great facility's and good potential. Not to mention the shock potential that was alluded to above.

Fanciful at best. OAK has exactly one international-capable gate. There's zero domestic gatespace available either, until/unless WN abandons their T1 gates. They'd have to build out the new T1 first before anyone else expands.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
baw716
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting Aaway (Reply 35):
Yet, I have three issues with Baw's assessment - (A) BOS is often (more often than not) affected by the same weather systems that cripple NYC area airports - be it snow in winter, thunder in summer, or merely winds affecting runway configuration. Bad enough stranding JFK - woeful adding BOS to that mix. (B) Facilities - BOS as the new gateway would be a no-brainer if Term. A had FIS. And, as indicated in another thread, apparently E is maxed during the late-afternoon / mid-evening timeframe for arrivals. If DL were to capture online connections in addition to BOS bound O/D, seems that timeframe would be the most logical period from a scheduling standpoint.

Aaway, you'll get no argument from me on any of the points you raised. However, if JFK and BOS go down, ATL stiil can get the job done for those passengers coming from the west/midwest that have to be FIMd over to get them out of Dodge...ATL is DLs no 1 hub. If ATL did not exist, I'd be concerned about adding BOS as a second gateway purely because of weather.

As for BOSs facilities; hopefully, DL will step up to the plate and do something to add an FIS facility to their operation; the airport may require it if they put in a lot of international flights...I've seen this happen at other airports.

To your last point; this is perhaps the most critical. Getting the scheduling right so that connections can be maximized and flexibility to divert the traffic to other airports in case the airport closes are the crucial points. We will just have to wait and see what materializes before we comment.

Anyway, thanks...your post was great!
cheers,
baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
MAH4546
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:29 am

The fact that many people have already mentioned it, combined with the fact tnat of the forums most knowledgeable Delta experts/insiders has mentioned it twice (not directly, but in a way that makes it obvious), yet people are still trying to figure it out, demonstrates how shocking this announcement will be if it gets final approval.
a.
 
njdevilsin03
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:32 am

Well I've guess we hav eit narrowed down to pretty much what EVAN767 said....It's either MCO, BOS, FLL, MIA, TPA OR JAX.
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jbmitt
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 34):
The answer is on Google News. Play around with some search terms at .Two articles give it away, one in a very subtle manner and the other one blatantly (though perhaps not intentionally). Both articles were actually published in February.

JAX? http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/jac...lle/stories/2007/03/05/daily9.html

HKG? http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3588

MCO / SJU ? http://www.dailyreportonline.com/Edi...L=3%2F7%2F2007%4013984_Public_.htm

I think JAX has similar international opportunities as BDL. It is a strong DL market, but I would be surprised to see traffic there versus ATL, only a short hop away.

HKG I'm not sure of bilateral agreements, but if 767's are positioning in and out for MTC, perhaps we could see flights feeding a regional operation. ex AA 757's all over Asia, I like the prospects ala UA and NW at NRT. The 767 doesn't have the range from LAX but can get there via HNL or at stretch from SEA or PDX in addition to any point in Europe, the middle east or most of Africa.

SJU could be interesting, it would go along with my thought of competing with AA. As I recall, the AAEagle operation is mostly props. How effective would RJs be there? Is there space?

Any othere clues? Thoughts?
 
FATFlyer
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 34):
The answer is on Google News. Play around with some search terms at .Two articles give it away, one in a very subtle manner and the other one blatantly (though perhaps not intentionally). Both articles were actually published in February.

This article here I assume

Quote:
Success has been hard to come by with Miami International Airport's $1 billion South Terminal project, dogged by delays and fiscal disasters.
But Miami-Dade County officials and construction executives say the opening last week of the terminal's new Concourse H, which came in on budget, is a shining example of what can happen when government and business work as they should.
Credit for the success belongs to small local companies, many of them minority-owned, that worked hard to get the $10 million job completed, say county aviation staffers and executives at general contractor Parsons-Odebrecht Joint Venture.
However, the small companies wouldn't have landed the job if Parsons-Odebrecht and government officials hadn't helped slash red tape and jump-started construction on the concourse, which will be used as a domestic and international gateway by Delta Airlines and US Airways.

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/070301/story5.shtml
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
jbmitt
Posts: 488
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:42 am

How soon are the newly ordered CRJ-900's onsite? A first class cabin, and a combined push from South Florida with all of Latin America, Mexico, Carribean, and northern areas of South America accessible also offers many revenue opportunities.
 
njdevilsin03
Posts: 612
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:43 am

I don't see how Miami would be a good fit? Even though there is a new international terminal...Wouldn't AA put up one hell of a fight?
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Xkorpyoh
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 42):
ump-started construction on the concourse, which will be used as a domestic and international gateway by Delta Airlines

was about to post the same!.

so I guess it is MIAMi! :

1) Shocking
2) many possibilities
3) Many flyers in So.Fla and latin america are fed up with AA, so I am sure that the "new" DL will be a great competitor.
 
deltasju777
Posts: 65
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:53 am

If it is Miami will they move thier domestic focus city from FLL to MIA, to help fill the intl flights.
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:54 am

So now that we all know it is MIA, can it just be confirmed by one of the "worthy three?"
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
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RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:57 am

OK, time to speculate:

Routes (INTL)-
MIA-MEX
MIA-CUN
MIA-SJO
MIA-SDQ
MIA-SJU
MIA-STT
MIA-MBJ
MIA-AUA
MIA-BOG
MIA-CCS
Mostly with a mix of 738's and 73G's

Shall we start another thread?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:57 am

Wow. Miami. How very un-interesting.
 
PExDCA
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:09 am

RE: New Delta International Gateway?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:00 pm

Quoting Njdevilsin03 (Reply 44):
Wouldn't AA put up one hell of a fight?

Despite years and years and years of trying, AA fed DL their lunch @ DFW, so I'm sure they would be equally formidable @ MIA. Plus, in addition to AA, MIA has a large Int'l carrier presence. DL historically was always a stronger FLL airline than an MIA one, so I have a difficult time believing MIA, but I think the DL management team now is putting good brain power behind their decisions lately, so we'll see.

I believe LAX will see a big Pacific expansion for DL in the not too distant term. It may already be an Int'l gateway for them, but I do believe that several new DL LAX Trans-Pac routes are on horizon.
"A single twig breaks, but the bundle of twigs is strong." - Tecumseh

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