panamair
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Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:29 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/070308/115157.html

Starting in June, daily FLL-SDQ and once weekly LAX-BZE....so FLL is the new international gateway?
 
richierich
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:45 am

Interesting... what's the equipment choice FLL-SDQ? I'm assuming 757 but pls advise.
None shall pass!!!!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:47 am

738 - which has the capability to cover a big chunk of Latin America from FLL.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:57 am

I've got to say many of these token LAX flights are getting a little ridiculous.

While BZE is a small place, but only once per week service? I know folks both locals headed home and tourist regularly destined for Belize whom choose either the twice daily CO flights via IAH or daily TACA service via SAL.

Cant see this once weekly flight supporting itself.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:04 am

that is precisely why DL is growing... because they aren't doing things "by the book". who says every route has to be served daily? lots of cities around the world won't support daily service but 4 days a week for long-haul destinations is a good place to start. adding Sat only service in major leisure markets makes alot of sense, esp. for an airline that has alot of high frequency service that doesn't make sense on Sat.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:08 am

what eqp to BZE are they using? 738?

The Belizeans in LA are gonna love this!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
I've got to say many of these token LAX flights are getting a little ridiculous.

While BZE is a small place, but only once per week service? I know folks both locals headed home and tourist regularly destined for Belize whom choose either the twice daily CO flights via IAH or daily TACA service via SAL.

Cant see this once weekly flight supporting itself.

Speaking of LAX flights, looks like LAX-MGA is gone after the April 21 flight (funny thing is that is being upped from 1x weekly now to 2x weekly in the next few weeks, through 4/21); however 1x weekly LAX-LIR is still on the skeds through spring and early summer as is the 5x weekly LAX-GUA.
 
RobertS975
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:11 am

Does anyone have a handle on how DL will handle the flight crew on the LAX-Belize flight... it is a red-eye leaving LAX at midnight Saturday, arriving 520A in Belize on Sunday AM, and then turns around 2 hours later for LAX. I suspect the FAs will make the RT, but would this be legal for the flight crew?

Or will the retruning flight crew deadhead on the Saturday ATL-Belize 738 flight and overnight?
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:14 am

Hooray for towing planes between terminals at FLL  Silly . Quite a surprise to see FLL-SDQ, especially with the rumors focused on MIA, and more importantly, lack of gate space at FLL, even more so at the international terminal during rush hour.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 4):
Sat only service in major leisure markets makes alot of sense, esp. for an airline that has alot of high frequency service that doesn't make sense on Sat.

BZE is far from being an only leisure destination from LAX. Like all of Central America, there is ethnic travel component also which does require some frequency and also requires a tie in with many of the huge ethnic consolidators which DL has yet to connect with.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FLLspoter
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:18 am

ooooooooooooooo yea

FLL gets better and better for DL

Joe
FLL justs gets better and better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
BZE is far from being an only leisure destination from LAX. Like all of Central America, there is ethnic travel component also which does require some frequency and also requires a tie in with many of the huge ethnic consolidators which DL has yet to connect with.

Perhaps they could codeshare with CO ..so if someone wnats to return during the week....the could route them through IAH..although I would thing they would much rather send them through ATL..

This will do well..there are ALOT of Belizeans in LA and ALL travel on the weekends.

DL must publicize it to make it work though..they will have to advertise locally here......

I hear that the RON Sat only CRJ experiment has been a success.....but they will still discontinue soon...guess doe to eqp issues
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:28 am

Very interesting. FLL-SDQ is an interesting move, especially with Spirit flying the route. This summer, Spirit will fly four daily flights on the route. I wonder what this means for the MIA rumours, however. It is a big strike against them.

However, anybody notice the schedule? The SDQ-ATL-SDQ flights turn right around; but SDQ-FLL-SDQ sits on the ground for all day. So either the JFK and ATL schedules are going to be adjusted, or something else is up....

[Edited 2007-03-08 17:41:01]
a.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
I wonder what this means for the MIA rumours, however. It is a strike against them.

Sometimes, you can be heading in one direction, then change course after careful deliberation. Perhaps that was the case here. Hard to believe they'd grow both. They could clearly put some hurt on NK if they wanted. Its going to get interesting.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
I've got to say many of these token LAX flights are getting a little ridiculous.

LAX has seen a ton of capacity added south of the border; it'll be interesting to see how much of it sticks. DL is already pulling back some of its Mexican/Central American flying.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 8):
Quite a surprise to see FLL-SDQ

Definitely a surprise, but I'm guessing this is utilization flying that would otherwise be a RON.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 13):
Sometimes, you can be heading in one direction, then change course after careful deliberation. Perhaps that was the case here. Hard to believe they'd grow both. They could clearly put some hurt on NK if they wanted. Its going to get interesting.

You think this might be some sort of retaliation against Spirit's new "ULCC model"? Spirit does fly to Atlanta, and is increasing ATL-FLL service this spring. Also, FLL-SDQ is Spirit's busiest international route, with four daily flights during the summer.
a.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):

You think this might be some sort of retaliation against Spirit's new "ULCC model"? Spirit does fly to Atlanta, and is increasing ATL-FLL service this spring. Also, FLL-SDQ is Spirit's busiest international route, with four daily flights during the summer.

Could be. I do have some doubts about how Spirit's new checked baggage fees will go over in certain markets, such as SDQ.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 16):
Could be. I do have some doubts about how Spirit's new checked baggage fees will go over in certain markets, such as SDQ.

And I totally forgot about that specifically. Santo Domingo is probably the market where the baggage fees will be most serious effected. I don't even think that the issue would be the $10 for two checked bags. I think the bigger issue is the $100 for the third bag, when other airlines charge $25-$50.
a.
 
toltommy
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Very interesting. FLL-SDQ is an interesting move, especially with Spirit flying the route. This summer, Spirit will fly four daily flights on the route.

DL must think there's good high yield O&D in the FLL-SDQ market. If NK runs 4x daily, there must be more than connecting traffic. It'll be interesting to see how DL positions the service.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:01 am

Someone jsut called me....says have you heard the fare on DL to LAX new nonstop......like US$600 RT........spreading liek wildfire here.......these flights are gonna be full full full.....especially when the best one can do is about US$850 currently
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 13):
They could clearly put some hurt on NK if they wanted

I don't know if they could...if you believe NK's CASM numbers, NK can undercut DL all hours of the day. Sure DL could make life uncomfortable for NK but only at immense cost to themselves.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 18):

DL must think there's good high yield O&D in the FLL-SDQ market. If NK runs 4x daily, there must be more than connecting traffic. It'll be interesting to see how DL positions the service.

I'm thinking Delta might be sending Spirit a message, specifically against their baggage charge rules. Spirit has ridiculously low CASM numbers, so Delta really can't undercut them without hurting themselves.
a.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:05 am

Maybe DL could run an ad......fly DL to SDQ and bring your bags for free (2 per pax in small print!)....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
You think this might be some sort of retaliation against Spirit's new "ULCC model"? Spirit does fly to Atlanta, and is increasing ATL-FLL service this spring. Also, FLL-SDQ is Spirit's busiest international route, with four daily flights during the summer.

I'd be shocked if it wasn't a consideration. NK is trashing some fares in ATL and certainly trashing some Caribbean and Latin O&D's. It's clear they are planning on more growth. DL could be planning to put the hurt on before they get too established.

I also think that DL's Latin expansion, as strong as it has been, has been handicapped by the lack of service to South Florida. DL certainly has trouble with some of the major corporate players in the region. A limited amount of capacity in key O&D markets could open some very important doors. AA, in fact, does a LOT of this sort of flying.

That said, I doubt FLL-SDQ falls into this category. This one is a message to NK, I imagine.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:10 am

Probably a little too late to send messages to NK......
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:13 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
I don't know if they could...if you believe NK's CASM numbers, NK can undercut DL all hours of the day. Sure DL could make life uncomfortable for NK but only at immense cost to themselves.

CASM isn't even close to the whole story here. While it will be a cost to DL, clearly a few flights will not be "immense" in terms of impact to a $16B carrier. It will, however, be immense for NK.

Delta can match Spirit fares and its brand and SkyMiles program will immediately put the hurt on NK. Call it a slow bleed.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:14 am

Incidentally everyone has pulled down seats to the Caribbean from the US in the last year, with the exception of NK and DL.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 24):
Probably a little too late to send messages to NK......

Because they are in great financial shape and have a clear path for success?

NK is still precarious. Its got some focus now, but its hardly Southwest.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:18 am

DL is also adding a second ATL/LIM three days a week in June and July on a narrowbody. Not sure of the times yet.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):
DL is also adding a second ATL/LIM three days a week in June and July on a narrowbody. Not sure of the times yet.

Yes, on a 757 according to the following sked:

DL 225 ATL 11:20pm LIM 5:10am+ Mo Fr Sa 757
DL 226 LIM 7:00am ATL 2:50pm Tu Sa Su 757

The return will be good for European connections...
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 29):
Yes, on a 757 according to the following sked:

DL 225 ATL 11:20pm LIM 5:10am+ Mo Fr Sa 757
DL 226 LIM 7:00am ATL 2:50pm Tu Sa Su 757

Good to hear that. IIRC, DL also had an additional weekly 763 to LIM for a few months during the last 2 winter seasons.
 
ScottB
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Spirit has ridiculously low CASM numbers

Are you certain about that? As far as I can tell, their 2006Q3 system CASM was 11.66 cents. Perhaps things have now improved with the fleet transition being complete.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11):
This will do well..there are ALOT of Belizeans in LA and ALL travel on the weekends.

DL must publicize it to make it work though..they will have to advertise locally here.

The timing on LAX-BZE is interesting; clearly it uses an aircraft which would probably be sitting on the ground otherwise on Saturday night/Sunday morning. It seems like it is probably a good choice for price-sensitive VFR traffic.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 31):
The timing on LAX-BZE is interesting; clearly it uses an aircraft which would probably be sitting on the ground otherwise on Saturday night/Sunday morning.

Agreed. But I guarantee you this flight will be a success if it is marketed correctly.....there is a very large Belizean poplulation in LA and they all travel on weekends......this is also aimed at quite a few Tiawanese who now go to TPE using the routing BZE-SAL-LAX-TPE or BZE-IAH-SEA-TPE..the former being preferable to them.....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 31):

Are you certain about that? As far as I can tell, their 2006Q3 system CASM was 11.66 cents. Perhaps things have now improved with the fleet transition being complete.

No, I'm not certain. I'm just going by what Spirit claims, which, re-reading their press-release, actually doesn't include fuel costs:

“This revolutionary approach is part of our ULCC (Ultra Low Cost Carrier) model driven by high utilization and overall efficiency,” said Ben Baldanza, Spirit’s CEO and President. “Our new cost structure is among the lowest in the world, now trending to less than five cents ex-fuel per available seat mile.”

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...&newsId=20070306005463&newsLang=en

Though I think it is safe to say they have gone from 11.66 cents.
a.
 
ScottB
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
I'm just going by what Spirit claims

Yes, well the phrasing "now trending to less than five cents" raised red flags in my reading of it. It might "trend to" less than five cents eventually, even if it's around seven or eight now.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 34):

Yes, well the phrasing "now trending to less than five cents" raised red flags in my reading of it. It might "trend to" less than five cents eventually, even if it's around seven or eight now.

Very true. I didn't even read it closely the second time around! ha! Good catch.
a.
 
belizexp
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:50 am

Wow who would of ever think that DL would be the one to start LAX - BZE....(smile) This route should make more $$$ then the ATL -BZE route due to the fact most Belizean live in L.A. compare to other states.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11):
I hear that the RON Sat only CRJ experiment has been a success.....but they will still discontinue soon...guess doe to eqp issues

In the Delta PR it state "with the addition of new flights between Los Angeles and Belize, Delta and Delta Connection carrier Atlantic Southeast Airlines will offer nine weekly flights from Belize City, with daily service to Atlanta (twice on Saturdays) and once weekly to Los Angeles." So that sound to me like the Sat ASA and Mainline will be back.
Belize my home sweet home...
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
“Our new cost structure is among the lowest in the world, now trending to less than five cents ex-fuel per available seat mile.”

Spirit's accounting dept. might want to know that even the most cost-efficient airlines and aircraft spend 3 cents per ASM on fuel.

DL is growing alot of it Latin American system by using aircraft time at night or on the weekends when demand for its domestic business flights are down. It makes a whole heck of a lot of sense.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:18 pm

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 36):
In the Delta PR it state "with the addition of new flights between Los Angeles and Belize, Delta and Delta Connection carrier Atlantic Southeast Airlines will offer nine weekly flights from Belize City, with daily service to Atlanta (twice on Saturdays) and once weekly to Los Angeles." So that sound to me like the Sat ASA and Mainline will be back.

IT is only showing a single ASA daytime flight during the summer on Sat......guess it is yet to be added. but DL is gaining momentum here.....and may have finally found the fomula.

I bet DL goes 4Xweekly on the LAX route before year end......much to the ire of CO and AA. And this can't be good news for US plans to start Phoenix-BZE.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
belizexp
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 38):
And this can't be good news for US plans to start Phoenix-BZE.

I personally can't see US starting the route anytime soon...Off the topic a lil is the runway work done yet because this can be a sign of more to come for BZE in the future with the longer runway project. Now back to the game....East = 6 (MIA,ATL,CLT,DFW,IAH,EWR) West = 1(LAX) not bad for little old BZE.
Belize my home sweet home...
 
nkops
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Santo Domingo is probably the market where the baggage fees will be most serious effected. I don't even think that the issue would be the $10 for two checked bags. I think the bigger issue is the $100 for the third bag, when other airlines charge $25-$50.

Actually, according to DL website... you cannot bring a third bag to SDQ period. You are allowed only two, no third bag allowed even if you want to pay (under baggage fees, area restrictions)

[Edited 2007-03-12 21:47:40]
:evil:
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Announces FLL-SDQ And LAX-BZE

Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 39):
I personally can't see US starting the route anytime soon...Off the topic a lil is the runway work done yet because this can be a sign of more to come for BZE in the future with the longer runway project. Now back to the game....East = 6 (MIA,ATL,CLT,DFW,IAH,EWR) West = 1(LAX) not bad for little old BZE.

Actually US had publically said here that they would start Pheonix once the runway was finished.

It should be ready late may..........just in time for DL to do fully loaded departures to LAX outa here....and they will be full.

CO has also said that they would either like to do a RON from IAH or add soem EWR frequency.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.

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