skaggs
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:03 am

2nd Fatal Chopper Crash In Hawaii In 4 Days.

Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:33 am

I will bet this will lead to an immediate grounding of tour operators until the FAA decides what to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17571210/
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
 
starrion
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:19 pm

RE: 2nd Fatal Chopper Crash In Hawaii In 4 Days.

Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting Skaggs (Thread starter):
I will bet this will lead to an immediate grounding of tour operators until the FAA decides what to do.

Why?

Are you aware of some systemic maintenance failure or shortcoming? Is there evidence that the operators are cutting corners on safety leading to the accidents?

Or are you presuming that because there happened to be two accidents in close proximity to each other that "something must be done!" From the news reports, it sounds like both craft had a mechanical failure which can occur to any of us at any time. And there is nothing the FAA can do to prevent unexpected mechanical problems from bringing an aircraft of any sort down.

The way the industry works is:
The actual cause of the accident is determined. That will take some time.
If there is evidence that the companies are cutting corners - then there will be groundings.
If the operators had an unexpected failure or there simply was extreme bad luck, then not.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
skaggs
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:03 am

RE: 2nd Fatal Chopper Crash In Hawaii In 4 Days.

Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:53 pm

Here is why I say this:

This is certainly not a hysteria brought on by two accidents concidentally close together. It is a systemic problem that is obviously in need of some type of oversight.

This is a PRM from the DOT:

http://www3.verticalgateway.com/portals/12/news/AirTourNPRM.pdf

And some local Hawaii Response:

http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/14/news/story01.html

[Edited 2007-03-12 05:56:10]

[Edited 2007-03-12 05:58:31]
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: 2nd Fatal Chopper Crash In Hawaii In 4 Days.

Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:25 pm

To me...pure coincidence. Two separate operators with two different aircraft and (possibly) two different causes. We already know in the first accident, the pilot reported hydraulic failure and I haven't read the details on the second one yet. I don't think grounding all tour operators out there is the right thing to do.
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: 2nd Fatal Chopper Crash In Hawaii In 4 Days.

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting Skaggs (Thread starter):
I will bet this will lead to an immediate grounding of tour operators until the FAA decides what to do.



Quoting Skaggs (Reply 2):
Here is why I say this:
This is certainly not a hysteria brought on by two accidents concidentally close together. It is a systemic problem that is obviously in need of some type of oversight.
This is a PRM from the DOT:
http://www3.verticalgateway.com/portals/12/news/AirTourNPRM.pdf
And some local Hawaii Response:
http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/14/n....html

The reference news story (years old) is not related the the first reported mishap (inexperienced pilot error vs. apparant hydraulic failure). Without knowing the mishap acft's systems one can not make a judgement on the pilot's actions (pilot error, yes or no). Second recent mishap cause is still unknown so no judgement can be made.

You referenced a 3 year old PROPOSED rule that has nothing to do with the two recent mishaps. Perhaps IF the rule had been active you could POSSIBLY link the two, but it would be a failure of local FAA office at enforcing the (proposed) rule, not the companies that had the recent mishaps.

At no time has the situation reached the point of grounding all tour operators (in Hawaii or elsewhere).

AAR90
8yrs USN acft mishap investigator
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

RE: 2nd Fatal Chopper Crash In Hawaii In 4 Days.

Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 4):
At no time has the situation reached the point of grounding all tour operators (in Hawaii or elsewhere).

Agreed.

While not common by any means, we have tour helicopter crashes fairly frequently, usually once very few years.

Just beacuse 2 happened a few days appart doesn't mean the sky is falling.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!