764
Topic Author
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Dehydrated Passengers?

Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:27 pm

While doctors are of ocurse not allowed to release details about specific cases, some airport health services maintain statistics showing the number of case types treated. In the past few months there seems to have been a dramatic increase in dehydration cases in Europe and still a significantly incresed number in the US. Of course you have to know that many European carriers, particularly in the mediterranean, have stopped serving beverages or at least started charging significant amounts of money for them. This applies to all beverages, even water. But it appears that the incresae in dehydration cases only came about when the new baggage restrictions went into effect. It seems that passengers have routinely brough water on board in order to have a more comfortable flight. I don't know whether they are just trying to save money or whether they didn't feel like asking the crews for water all the time.

Whatever the case, it seems that the new regulations are actually affecting peoples' health now and as far as I am concerned something needs to be done about that. In my humble opinion it should not be too much to ask authorities to exempt water from the ban on liquids. Just water.
 
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OA260
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:33 pm

Hmm well I think that airlines should provide all passengers on flights more than 2 hours with a bottle of water. I guess it depends on what airline you fly with . I have never been charged for a bottle of water. I prefer to pay a bit more and travel in comfort but i know many would disagree with me . I dont think they should allow ''water'' onboard unless its bought after security. How do you know its really water??? A liquid ban is a liquid ban.

If passengers really care about their health then they would purchase a bottle of water after security and take it onboard.
 
ATCGOD
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:49 pm

I remember flying World from Baltimore to Frankfurt and then on to Al Uidied. I was sooooo thirsty about halfway through the first leg. They didn't go around offering water but if you asked for it they would bring it to you. This was about two years ago now.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting 764 (Thread starter):
In my humble opinion it should not be too much to ask authorities to exempt water from the ban on liquids. Just water.

You can bring liquids on, as long as they were bought after security. As much as you want to, again, as long as you bought it after security (at least in the US). The sad thing, while I do agree with you, is that people with far more sinister things on their minds can use liquids that look like water for far greater sinister agendas.
You can't cure stupid
 
iairallie
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 2):
I remember flying World from Baltimore to Frankfurt and then on to Al Uidied. I was sooooo thirsty about halfway through the first leg. They didn't go around offering water but if you asked for it they would bring it to you. This was about two years ago now.

That's odd it is World's policy to do a water service every 45min-1 hour. Sure you didn't just sleep though it?
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
ATCGOD
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 4):

That's odd it is World's policy to do a water service every 45min-1 hour. Sure you didn't just sleep though it?

Yep, pretty sure. They were very nice though. I must say excellent service all around.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 4):
That's odd it is World's policy to do a water service every 45min-1 hour.

Policy and reality are two different things.

As for MAC flights, scheduled MAC there might be rules (because of the mix of civilian and military passengers), but a straight military charter (troop movement), as for rules, for what you can bring on aren't as strict. I have seen huge amounts of liquids brought on by troops, in addtion to what we serve.
You can't cure stupid
 
ikramerica
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting 764 (Thread starter):
Whatever the case, it seems that the new regulations are actually affecting peoples' health now and as far as I am concerned something needs to be done about that. In my humble opinion it should not be too much to ask authorities to exempt water from the ban on liquids. Just water.

Water is so cheap to provide and so overpriced to buy, people will balk at paying the airport prices for it. Just give it away, i say. AA is charging for bottles of water, giving out cups of water for free. Silliness.

And for those who buy things like Aquafina, for example, it's the same water they use to make Coke with, but they charge more for the added value of not adding coke syrup...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Jerald01
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:31 am

Would it be too much to have one of the F/A's simply make an announcement prior to take-off that water is available any time upon request? That doesn't have to be "airline policy", but just common courtesy. (Assuming, of course, the airliner DOES have potable water on board and a means to serve it with.)
"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
 
Yflyer
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Water is so cheap to provide and so overpriced to buy, people will balk at paying the airport prices for it.

I suppose one could bring an empty through security, and then fill it up at the nearest drinking fountian. I've never tried it, but I'm just cheap enough that I would do that if I knew the airline I was flying on charged for water.
 
Jammin
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 9):
I suppose one could bring an empty through security, and then fill it up at the nearest drinking fountian.

Hey, now that's a good idea  thumbsup  I always took a water bottle with me on flights cause I generally drink a lot of water and I guess the thing about not asking the F/A for water might be that some people, like myself (and I think others here on a.net) dont really want to use the call button unless they really need to. And besides, I always like to sit in the window seat and it's a pain to ask the two other passengers (in general) to get up so you can get water.

But, regardless, if you really need water, then go ahead and use the call button or make your neighbors get up... This is of course only for flying in economy. Most biz class service usually gives you a bottle of water after the meal service
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting Jerald01 (Reply 8):
Would it be too much to have one of the F/A's simply make an announcement prior to take-off that water is available any time upon request?

That's a given. No need to make an announcement.

Quoting Jammin (Reply 10):
But, regardless, if you really need water, then go ahead and use the call button

That's why we are there. It's my job. Call away, I'll be glad to assist.
You can't cure stupid
 
764
Topic Author
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:15 am

I like the drinking fountain idea. Problem is - European airports don't have any. Period. Also many airlines will not provide water - at least not for free. This is by far not just a low cost problem. Many big carriers have started ripping off passengers like this - look at Spanair for example. And they are in Star Alliance!

Anyway, I just had to vent a bit. I see the point that it is somewhat hard to determine whether a liquid is water or not (although it is one of the simplest substances to test for). I guess a law forcing airlines to provide water free of charge on all flights at all times and also at the gates (think of all those hour long delays...) would solve the issue as well.
 
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OA260
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 9):
I suppose one could bring an empty through security, and then fill it up at the nearest drinking fountian. I've never tried it, but I'm just cheap enough that I would do that if I knew the airline I was flying on charged for water.

Thats a good idea but the container would have to be under 100ml woudnt it???? I had some cough medicine in a 150ml bottle and it was half empty and they took it off me in LHR . Mind you I got through MIA and PHL with it !!!!
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:56 am

If the container is empty there should be no problem, it is the amount of liquid, not the container.
You can't cure stupid
 
Yflyer
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Thats a good idea but the container would have to be under 100ml woudnt it???? I had some cough medicine in a 150ml bottle and it was half empty and they took it off me in LHR . Mind you I got through MIA and PHL with it !!!!

I think should work in the US; any beverage you buy beyond the checkpoint is allowed regardless of size, so I would think any size bottle you fill up beyond security would be ok as well. I would assume a completely empty bottle would be allowed through security, but you're right, I have heard of the TSA confiscating half empty bottles because they're capable of holding more than the limit. That doesn't seem logical, does it? Maybe the reason for throwing away the half empty bottle is because there's no way to verify that the amount of liquid in the bottle is under the limit.
 
ChinaClipper40
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 15):
I have heard of the TSA confiscating half empty bottles because they're capable of holding more than the limit. That doesn't seem logical, does it? Maybe the reason for throwing away the half empty bottle is because there's no way to verify that the amount of liquid in the bottle is under the limit.

Yup. The TSA absolutely confiscates half-empty bottles. Indeed, they go even further than that. They confiscate ANY container larger than 3 fluid oz (88.5 ml), regardless of how low the contents are. About a week after the 3 fluid oz limit was put into place, I tried to board a flight at BWI with a 4 fluid oz bottle of mouthwash that was clearly about one-quarter full. And the bottle was clear plastic, so the fluid level could be easily seen. It was confiscated. When I pointed out that the actual fluid contents were obviously far less than the allowable 3 fluid oz, I was told (rudely) that it was not the actual amount of liquid being carried through security that mattered, but rather the size of the container - no matter how full or empty. It reminded me of being back in the military - people of pathetically low intellect blindly following the letter of the regulation, rather than the obvious intent of it. Maybe the TSA will allow a totally empty water bottle through, but on the basis of my experience I wouldn't bet on it.

ChinaClipper40
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting 764 (Reply 12):
Many big carriers have started ripping off passengers like this - look at Spanair for example. And they are in Star Alliance!

Perhaps that's a Star Alliance thing. I remember the menu from OS Dash 8 between VIE and KSC asking 3 Euros for bottle of water. If that's not a ripoff, then nothing is. I was in C (same narrow seat but better service) and therefore didn't have to pay for it, but it seemed outrageous anyway.
310, 319, 320, 321, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, Saab 340, YAK40
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:18 pm

Minor related question: How do they know you don't have a water bottle in your bag?

I recently returned from a trip YXY-YVR-YYZ-FCO with security in YXY, and returned FCO-FRA-YYZ-YVR-YXY with security checks in FCO and YYZ.

Both ways I had followed the whole 1L clear bag 100ml bottles etc rule, but not once out of the three times did anyone actually stop and look at my liquids, they were zipped up in my bag the entire time (although on top, so if anyone did ask they would take about 2.5 seconds to get out). Also, just to see wether they would catch it in Rome, one of the teachers on the trip waddled through security with a full 200mL juicebox in her backpack. Nobody said a word about it, and at the gate there she was drinking her 200mL juice from the hotel.

There are silly rules, and then there is this.


CanadianNorth
Way to go, nice and slow, never late, 748!
 
iairallie
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:14 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 6):
Policy and reality are two different things.

Yeah, but in this case we are pretty good about it doing it maybe not every 45min-1hr but we always go through several times and at least once with movie snacks. I make know I make a point of it because I know what it is like to be trapped between sleeping passengers in a window on a very long flight when you are thirsty. We spend a lot of time as pax so we try to treat are pax the way we like to be treated when we commercial.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:01 pm

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 19):
I make know I make a point of it because I know what it is like to be trapped between sleeping passengers in a window on a very long flight when you are thirsty. We spend a lot of time as pax so we try to treat are pax the way we like to be treated when we commercial.

It wasn't an a slight against you personally. I know that I can only speak for me and my flights and we do what is supposed to be done and more. Everytime. I can just hope on flights I do not work or passenger, that standard is upheld.
You can't cure stupid
 
IADCA
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 14):
If the container is empty there should be no problem, it is the amount of liquid, not the container.

You'd think that would work, but that's not the letter of the law, according to the TSA website: http://www.tsa.gov/311/311-carry-ons.shtm.

According to that link, "All liquids, gels and aerosols must be in three-ounce or smaller containers. Larger containers that are half-full or toothpaste tubes rolled up are not allowed. Each container must be three ounces or smaller."

In practice, I don't know how it works, as I've never tried to bring a larger container on.
 
iairallie
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 20):
It wasn't an a slight against you personally.

No, worries I didn't take it that way.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Water is so cheap to provide and so overpriced to buy, people will balk at paying the airport prices for it. Just give it away, i say. AA is charging for bottles of water, giving out cups of water for free. Silliness.

Busch Gardens Theme Parks have a similar policy. If the temperature is over a certain degree (don't know the number off the top of my head), you can get free cups of water (as many times as you want) from any place that serves fountain drinks. But if you want a bottle of water, you still have to pay the $3 for it. But hey, when the temperature was about 97 and the Heat Index well over a 100 when I went back in August, I wasn't going to complain. Personnaly, I thought getting the cup of water with ice in it was better than the bottle.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 6):
but a straight military charter (troop movement), as for rules, for what you can bring on aren't as strict.

Last June, I was on a military charter flight operated by Champion Air from Denver to Wichita Falls, Texas (Sheppard AFB). We didn't go through security before we got on the plane and our bags were never X-rayed or searched. Besides the flight crew, we 26 cadets and the two active personnel escorting us were the only ones on the plane. To get on the plane, we boarded a shuttle van at our hotel, entered the airport through one of the service vehicle entries, and drove up right next to the plane. Granted, this was just a couple months before the whole "no liquids" thing, but any one of us could have snuck anything we wanted aboard that aircraft.


Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Water is so cheap to provide and so overpriced to buy

Bottled water is more expensive than gasoline.

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 18):
Minor related question: How do they know you don't have a water bottle in your bag?

Possibly chemical sniffers. I know they catch stuff, because my sister had her toothpaste confiscated at CVG over Christmas.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:27 am

Interesting timing of this thread.
I got dehydrated over a week ago on a flight from Tokyo to San Francisco. It was a terrible feeling.
I drank less than I normally do on a long haul flight.
Bring back the Concorde
 
redngold
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:16 am

An additional problem is that a lot of people think that if they drink any fluid it is just as good as water. This is not true. Alcohol is a diuretic, which means it will dehydrate you more than if you took in no fluid at all. Ditto for water-based drinks that contain caffeine which is a stimulant and diuretic.
If you can't drink non-alcoholic and/or non-caffeinated beverages, on a 2-3 hour flight you are probably better off drinking nothing at all. Longer than that, and you should balance your intake of alcohol or caffeinated beverages with an equal amount of non-alcoholic, non-caffeinated beverages.
Note that "decaffeinated" beverages do still contain a small amount of caffeine, and should be avoided.
Up, up and away!
 
Superfly
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:43 am

Redngold:
Well aware of that.
Bring back the Concorde
 
georgiaame
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:45 am

Oh PUHLEEZE! Does anyone out there have a shred of medical knowledge? Okay, how many of you know someone who has been involved in an auto accident? How many of you out there know someone who has ever flown in an airplane (or broomstick, as the case may be when it comes to my mother in law)? How many of you out there know someone who has had a DVT while flying, or immediately after flying? How many of you sit on your fat butts for hours on end, posting on this web site? How many of you live in air-conditioned environments or in the wilds of Arizona? I agree that humans did not evolve to live at 35,000', perhaps with the exception of some Sherpas in Tibet. People just ain't droppin' like flies after being stuck in economy steerage across the pond. It happens, but rarely, and personally, I'm a hell of a lot more worried about driving out of the parking lot at my office than succumbing to a DVT on return to Atlanta. Yes, dehydration is a problem, it is certainly exacerbated by alcohol, and certainly the free flowing stuff in business class. Coffee is no bargain. And yes, I drink a great deal more water trans-Atlantic than I would on the ground. (Even smart guys like me occasionally succumb to rhetorical hype). The usual result is that my feet enlarge by 3 sizes the next day, and I have to pop a diuretic that keeps me peeing my brains out (read: dehydrating) for the next 6-8 hours. As far as the 3oz/100ml rule goes, anyone with a quarter of a functioning brain knows that not a single person on the planet has been saved by this brilliant fiat on the part of the bureaucrats. Put 10 terrorists in a single security line here in the states, since "racial profiling" (what ever that is supposed to mean to the thin skinned fools who seem to be in charge), is absolutely verboten, seat each bad guy with 500ml of "liquid explosives" together (can't separate them, or you get sued, ala US Airways) and you have a bomb. Guess what? It hasn't happened! Nor will it. Cuz the threat just isn't there!!!

Ladies and gents, drink the water, wiggle your toes, get a life, go easy on the booze, and (pardon my French), quit smoking. You just might live long enough to get an upgrade!

Sheesh!

Signed: A real, totally and extremely potlitically incorrect, MD. (Who had to attend to a very sick, dehydrated, patient over Ireland last week, at 38,000 feet. Only 1L of normal saline solution on Delta 767ERs, in case you were curious. He made it, and the Italian pronto succorso was great upon landing )
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
ABpositive
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:36 pm

RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Water is so cheap

but it's also heavy. That's the LCC mentality for you.
 
sw733
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting ChinaClipper40 (Reply 16):
They confiscate ANY container larger than 3 fluid oz (88.5 ml), regardless of how low the contents are

Yeah...on paper. If I had a dollar for every time I got more than 3 oz. of a liquid through security, I could hire a private jet. Hell, just last week I got a 5 oz. bottle of liquid through security at MCI and all the way to MUC, and the same bottle back through MUC (and I had to go through security twice), and also after coming out of IAD customs. What happens on paper and what happens in person is quite different.
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:15 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 27):
How many of you out there know someone who has had a DVT while flying, or immediately after flying?

Yes I know a woman who died of a DVT after flying to tahiti for her honeymoon.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4311
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:16 pm

DVT is also not class specific. You can get it sitting in first class or business too. You can get it driving long distances.
You can't cure stupid
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 23):
Possibly chemical sniffers. I know they catch stuff, because my sister had her toothpaste confiscated at CVG over Christmas.

That's comforting. We now have chemical sniffers adept at detecting toothpaste. This could spur a real boom in the dental industry.  Yeah sure
 
Superfly
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RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:45 am

GeorgiaAME:
Calm down. No one is on trial here, nor pointing any fingers at the airlines.
Bring back the Concorde
 
sw733
Posts: 5329
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:49 am

DVT is scary stuff...I am paranoid about it. On any flight over about 2 or 3 hours I always get an aisle seat (and usually any flight) so that I can get up and walk around without bothering anyone. Usually, I'll spend about an hour of any given 6-9 hour flight standing in the back drinking water or juice, about about 2 hours on any 10+ hour flight doing the same.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Dehydrated Passengers?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 34):
DVT is scary stuff...

Agreed.

As many times I've flown, I've never been dehydrated on a plane until my flight last week. It was nothing I ever concerned myself with, but I will now.
The only time I've been dehydrated before was at Burning Man.
Bring back the Concorde

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