kaitak744
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4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:40 am

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007.../14/business/business_30029238.php

So, any thoughts on what routes South African could use these 4 A340-500s on?
 
NZ748
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:45 am

This is very exciting news for SAA - it it's true.

My guess would be that they deploy these on the JNB - USA routes. The range of these aircraft would permit them to fly both ways non stop with almost full, if not full payload.

OR

if it were up to me I'd fly these A345's to SYD, MEL or AKL  Smile

NZ748
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:58 am

Like most articles discussing this airline as of late, this one features incredibly shoddy journalism.

Quote:
"I have recommended using the Boeing 777-200, which could operate long-haul routes. At the moment, THAI has no such aircraft, so there are plans to use the Boeing 777-200

TG operates both the 772A and 772ER. The only pax 772 version it does not currently operate is the 772LR; which seems to be the aircraft being discussed here.


Also, the consensus on this and other forums seems to be that the four unidentified 772LRs ordered quite recently were intended for Royal Brunei.... but would be exceedingly interesting if they turned out to be TG's, particularly considering this airline's past history with ETOPS.
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Carpethead
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:58 am

Or non-stop to KIX or NGO from JNB.
It was a good dream though....
 
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PM
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:08 pm

Does this explain the rumoured sale of four SAA 747s to BA?
 
jimyvr
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 3):
Or non-stop to KIX or NGO from JNB.

Well, ANA is lending a hand, so probably no need.
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boeingfever777
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:16 pm

Could they later fly these birds to ORD... or a'm I tired and not know what I talk of? Big grin
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Impacto
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:46 pm

I believe they will most likely replace the four 747s going to BA. You should expect to see these birds at LHR and other SA 747 routes.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting Impacto (Reply 7):
I believe they will most likely replace the four 747s going to BA. You should expect to see these birds at LHR and other SA 747 routes.

The airline also has the option of pulling A346s off of N.American routes and having them replace their 747s instead--- assuming of course any of this is anything more than supposition of course.
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Thorben
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:12 pm

ORD, ATL, IAH I would say.

Even the range of the A345 is a little too short for routes from JNB to the Western coast of the US.

Australia, South America and Europe can be done with A346 or A343.
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kappel
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:21 pm

Isn't it possible that they will replace the a342's on long routes? The a345 is larger and with more range, although heavier. Potentially more money making opportunities than with the a342?
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ZK-NBT
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:33 pm

I think SAA would look to use A345's on North American routes first to replace the 346's, the 346's would then be put on the LHR route replacing the 744's, none of SAA's 346's have First Class, so could this be the end of First class for SAA? AKL I think is definatly another possible route for an SA A345, they have looked at extending the PER route, so far nothing has happened.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:54 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 11):
AKL I think is definatly another possible route for an SA A345

I think if done, it should be non stop. An AKL-JNB route would make money IMO, and also it would make money on people going to Europe who ant an African stopover.
 
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PM
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:00 pm

If I am not mistaken, this would make SAA the first airline to operate all four versions of the A340.
 
swissgabe
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:04 pm

Leaving any sense and logic by side, the 345 in SAA colors will be great!
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WINGS
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:07 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 13):
If I am not mistaken, this would make SAA the first airline to operate all four versions of the A340.

That would be correct PM.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
parapente
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:34 pm

I think ZK- NBT is right. If I remember correctly the dash 600 had to do a "splash and dash" in the summer to the USA,which was not expected. These -500 aircraft would (I think) allow them to go anywhere in the states non stop and with a decent cargo.

As ZK states the 600 could go to LHR but also "down under". The fuel saving against 747-4-- would be huge and now is a good time to sell them when demand is high-it won't be in 2-3 years I wager. The savings in comonality having the "complete set" of 340's must also be attractive.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:37 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 12):
I think if done, it should be non stop. An AKL-JNB route would make money IMO, and also it would make money on people going to Europe who ant an African stopover.

Yes indeed.

I just read on SAA.com that they are restructuring their route network over the next few months so I wonder if there will be any new destinations.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:44 pm

I would be very surprised if this were true. TG's JFK route would have to be doing disastroously for this to happen I think. Cant deny SA would make better use of the A345 than TG, but I dont know that they would dispose of the plane that quickly. Just cant see it.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Leskova
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting Parapente (Reply 16):
I think ZK- NBT is right. If I remember correctly the dash 600 had to do a "splash and dash" in the summer to the USA,which was not expected. These -500 aircraft would (I think) allow them to go anywhere in the states non stop and with a decent cargo.

If you're pointing out the fact that SAA didn't fly the -600s nonstop to the US with that "splash and dash", then it was indeed fully expected. SAA Ops was fully aware of this fact before SAA ordered the aircraft.

SAA had the option of either going nonstop with restrictions or one-stop without; they chose the option which allowed them to make more money.
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DALCE
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 13):
If I am not mistaken, this would make SAA the first airline to operate all four versions of the A340.

I'm not sure about the A343 though...
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andz
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting DALCE (Reply 20):
I'm not sure about the A343 though...

What about the 343?

If (IF) SAA get the 345 they will have 342, 343, 345, 346. That is all the variants as far as I know.
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andz
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:52 pm

I asked my wife to find out about this. She says she spoke to someone in flight performance engineering and this is the first they have heard of it. Ditto the 744s going to BA.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
OceansWorld
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:54 pm

Quoting DALCE (Reply 20):
I'm not sure about the A343 though...

SA has received in 2004-2005 six A340-313X. Three are on lease with Jet Airways at the moment, but should come back once 9W receives its own long-haul fleet.


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6thfreedom
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:08 pm

Quoting NZ748 (Reply 1):
if it were up to me I'd fly these A345's to SYD, MEL or AKL

I think MEL and SYD, with an NZ codeshare and onward feed from AKL, CHC and WLG to boot!
 
gokmengs
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:12 pm

I was hoping TK would get the TG 345's but, they might pursue AC 345's, if AC didn't make a deal on those birds already.
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legoguy
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:24 pm

Great news. And yes, SAA will now operate all the a340 variants! The a345 will look great in SAA livery  Smile Does anybody know how many a340's they will have in their fleet now?
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
OceansWorld
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 26):
Does anybody know how many a340's they will have in their fleet now?

A grand total of 25 once all are in the fleet, unless some changes occur in the meantime.

6 -200s
6 -300s (once the three leased to 9W are back)
4 -500s
9 -600s

Cheers
 
birdbrainz
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:56 pm

Quoting Impacto (Reply 7):
I believe they will most likely replace the four 747s going to BA. You should expect to see these birds at LHR and other SA 747 routes.

I'd be astonished to see SAA A345's on LHR routes. Two reasons: It's "only" 6000 miles, which is easily achievable with the A346, and loads are typically heavy to and from LHR, and filling a 346 should be easy. I could be wrong, but I doubt a 346 would be payload restricted JNB-LHR, unless it's really hot in JNB.

My guess is they're going to be used to/from the USA, especially where the loads aren't so good. Of course, this is all assuming that the rumour is true.

Quoting Andz (Reply 22):
I asked my wife to find out about this. She says she spoke to someone in flight performance engineering and this is the first they have heard of it. Ditto the 744s going to BA.

Keep us posted. I'm a bit surprised that SAA Tech hasn't heard of it, but not astonished. The muckity-mucks frequently don't keep the worker bees informed.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
Umhlanga
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:04 pm

Whoa, whoa, whoa...SLOW DOWN!!! So far the only evidence to support these claims are:

1.) SAA's CEO said in December that the airline needs more widebody aircraft
2.) A RUMOUR here on a.net that SAA will sell 4 744s to BA (which seems to contradict point 1)
3.) IF Rumour 2 is true, then SAA will need to replace the 744s with another long-haul aircraft type
4.) An unsourced assertion in an online Thai newspaper, which states just once in the entire article that TG will sell 4 A345s to SAA. Again, there's no source for this claim; the claim is not repeated; and no one at SAA or TG has said anything on record about the claim.

So, before we start counting these as part of SAA's fleet(!!!!), or plotting new destinations for SAA, we should wait and see what happens.


Best regards,
Umhlanga
 
1stfl94
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:05 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 27):
A grand total of 25 once all are in the fleet, unless some changes occur in the meantime.

6 -200s
6 -300s (once the three leased to 9W are back)
4 -500s
9 -600s

Cheers

They could use the -500s to replace the -200s. Just a thought
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 14):
Leaving any sense and logic by side, the 345 in SAA colors will be great!

Oh yes , it will be the best looking 345 IMO

Quoting Birdbrainz (Reply 28):
I'd be astonished to see SAA A345's on LHR routes. Two reasons: It's "only" 6000 miles, which is easily achievable with the A346, and loads are typically heavy to and from LHR, and filling a 346 should be easy. I could be wrong, but I doubt a 346 would be payload restricted JNB-LHR, unless it's really hot in JNB.

I don´t think they´ll fly the 345 to Europe , it will be the US maybe with an extra tank (is it possible ??) or Japan
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:30 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 19):
SAA Ops was fully aware of this fact before SAA ordered the aircraft.

Were they?
I recall heavy advertisement by Airbus on the A346's alleged ability to do the westbound eastern USA flights restricted and return relatively full of additonal payload. Obviously false advertisement, but definitely present.

Pigneil?

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 31):
maybe with an extra tank

A345 is not offered with removable tankage a la 772LR.
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kappel
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 30):
They could use the -500s to replace the -200s. Just a thought

Indeed, like I said.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 10):
Isn't it possible that they will replace the a342's on long routes? The a345 is larger and with more range, although heavier. Potentially more money making opportunities than with the a342?

IMHO that would be quite likely, increasing capacity (by perhaps adding 2 AC a345's, they could replace the a342's 1:1) without increasing fleet size.
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Well it could fly to ORD JNB-ORD 7541 NM the 345 has 8500 NM range ...

also :

IAH

IAD

Dallas

ATL

JFK

etc...
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United787
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:39 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
ORD, ATL, IAH I would say.

ORD yes, if they can get their code sharing figured out with UA.

ATL and IAH no, they are not Star Alliance hubs.

Maybe IAD or New York...
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 25):
I was hoping TK would get the TG 345's but, they might pursue AC 345's, if AC didn't make a deal on those birds already.

My crystal ball says 777s for TK in the not-too distant future. I'm not convinced TG will be getting rid of the A345s anyway, and if anything, I would suspect they would look at getting the AC ones as well.

Time will tell I guess, but I just dont see TG getting rid of them. Remember this is rumour and supposition at this stage and nothing concrete has been announced.

Reasons why:

* They wont get anything like what they paid for them back.
* To replace them would mean a 777LR order and I cant see that for a number of reasons.
* They are ideal for other routes in the network, not just for the JFK/LAX non-stops and to dispose of them purely because this route may not be doing well (and ive not heard of it struggling) is short-sighted.
* They have 747-300s and 400s that are old and tatty, and will have to be replaced very soon - the A345 is capacity they simply cannot afford to lose. The A345 is considerably more economical to run than the 747
* They are fitted out with the flagship in-flight product.
* They are extremely popular and have a very high utilisation rate - I cannot see how they would be so very unhappy with them.
* Not heard of any despatch reliability issues.
* TG has had some major ETOPS issues in the past.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
c680
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:55 pm

First route?

Replace the A340-600 with a new (?) A340-500 on the existing JNB-IAD route.

- SA already flies the route
- It eliminates the fuel stop
- I assume they don't need all of the capacity of the -600 on the route
- The -600 is better suited to Europe (Range, capacity)
- It connects with Star's UA hub at IAD.
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mk777
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting C680 (Reply 37):
Replace the A340-600 with a new (?) A340-500 on the existing JNB-IAD route

Will be nice to see an A345 at IAD, i don't think any other airline uses it at Dulles. Wonder what QR would use to IAD??
come fly with me
 
Thorben
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 35):
ORD yes, if they can get their code sharing figured out with UA.

ATL and IAH no, they are not Star Alliance hubs.

Have they actually stopped serving ATL?

Quoting United787 (Reply 35):
Maybe IAD or New York...

Likely, the A345s would serve those routes better than the other A340 they currently are using.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Leskova
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 32):
Quoting Leskova (Reply 19):
SAA Ops was fully aware of this fact before SAA ordered the aircraft.

Were they?

Yes, they were - and, yes, the person who told me worked for SAA Ops and was involved in the evaluation at the time.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 38):
Wonder what QR would use to IAD??

77W I would think.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Umhlanga
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 39):
Have they actually stopped serving ATL?

Yes. SAA joined Star Alliance in April 2006. In repsonse, they eliminated ATL flights, and increased IAD flights, at the end of June 2006.


Best regards,
Umhlanga
 
airliner777
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:08 pm

Hopefully SAA comes back to MIA again. It has been a while since last time they flew into South Florida. The A340-500 would be nice to see.

Airliner777
 
FoxBravo
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:11 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 32):
Were they?
I recall heavy advertisement by Airbus on the A346's alleged ability to do the westbound eastern USA flights restricted and return relatively full of additonal payload. Obviously false advertisement, but definitely present.

Not sure about Airbus, but I definitely remember advertisement by SAA to that effect. Press releases at the time they placed the order clearly indicated that the A346 would represent an improvement from passengers' perspective over the previous 744 service by not only continuing to operate nonstop eastbound from JFK and ATL, but by eliminating the unpleasant middle-of-the-night refueling stop at Sal Island on the westbound flights. Not only did the latter prove impossible, but the eastbound flights started stopping too!

The explanation I have heard, at least on these boards (as confirmed by Leskova above), is that SAA ops people were well aware of the A346's performance, including the limitations on the westbound flights, and that it was only some misguided folks in the marketing department (i.e., the ones who write the press releases) who believed otherwise. The addition of stops on the eastbound flights, meanwhile, apparently resulted from a deliberate decision to maximize cargo capacity as well as revenue from fifth-freedom traffic to/from West Africa. I am not sure how successful that has been, however, because they seem to keep changing their minds about whether they want to re-start nonstop eastbound flights. I wish they would--the nonstop used to be the best way from the US to South Africa by far, whereas now SAA's one-stop from JFK offers just a slight time savings over connections via Europe on BA, VS and now AF.
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MCOflyer
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:31 pm

I thought these were going to US. But SAA will find good use for these birds.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
mk777
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:57 pm

Will SAA ever fly to DEL, if yes, what A/C would they most likely to use?
come fly with me
 
swissgabe
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 46):
Will SAA ever fly to DEL, if yes, what A/C would they most likely to use?

Maybe the same as BOM, a mix of 342/343?!
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
birdbrainz
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 44):
The addition of stops on the eastbound flights, meanwhile, apparently resulted from a deliberate decision to maximize cargo capacity as well as revenue from fifth-freedom traffic to/from West Africa. I am not sure how successful that has been, however, because they seem to keep changing their minds about whether they want to re-start nonstop eastbound flights.

For what it's worth, I flew JFK-DKR-JNB, and the loads on the first leg were heavy. The second leg was like flying on a private jet. My wife just returned last month and on the JNB-DKR-IAD flight, the loads on the 2nd leg were really heavy, with a lot of pax picked up in DKR. Granted, this isn't a lot of data, but my guess is that the stops in DKR are lucrative.

Anyone from SAA care to comment?
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
Umhlanga
Posts: 122
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RE: 4 A340-500s To South African (ex TG)

Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:34 am

Your experiences were exactly the opposite of what I experienced this past August, and what my mom experienced a year ago!  Smile

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