El Al 001
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What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:11 am

DL had operated to TLV from JFK twice already in the past.

The airline currently flies to TLV with a daily T7 from ATL.

However, it was rumored latly, that DL would like to start a daily JFK-TLV flight.

What are the chances that this would happen? Might it be with a 777 too, or only a 763 is a candidate?

Thanks!
 
Evan767
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:18 am

I am sure this is going to happen - with a 763 of course. It's just a matter of when...
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Lemurs
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:45 am

...seems almost inevitable. They'll have a fun time trying to pry traffic away from El Al and Continental though. There is tremendous flyer loyalty to those two companies in the area for the NYC-TLV traffic. They'll need pricing incentives to build up some of their own loytalty at first. Might hurt for a bit, but there's so much O&D that I can't see them letting it go for forever.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:12 am

DL has a pretty loyal following in NYC as well...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:47 pm

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 2):
to build up some of their own loytalty at first.

...not only is DL's following in NYC huge, but they've also got quite a bit of exposure to the Israeli market through their own mental and years worth of cooperation with LY. Wouldn't be nearly as difficult for them to tap a lucrative segment of that market as you seem to suggest; though consistency this time would be key.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
dutchjet
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:58 pm

Could happen, one factor is aircraft allcoation issues (does DL have 767 or 777 equipment available to operate this route?) and the profit potential (is opening this route an effective use of resouces?)......DL has a good thing going at ATL with its ATL-TLV route and may not want to fuss with this very comfortable (and allegedly very profitable) situtation, adding a JFK-TLV service will have some impact on the ATL service plus DL would face a lot of competition in the NYC market. Its a tough call and I am sure that DL is working the numbers to see what makes sense; remember that DL need not serve every transatlantic destinaton from both JFK and ATL, in some cases one gateway may be a better answer.
 
Lemurs
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 4):
...not only is DL's following in NYC huge, but they've also got quite a bit of exposure to the Israeli market through their own mental and years worth of cooperation with LY. Wouldn't be nearly as difficult for them to tap a lucrative segment of that market as you seem to suggest; though consistency this time would be key.

Of course, it's not like they're a startup....but they're still new (again) to the market. They can't come in at significantly more than El Al and CO and expect to snap up much premium traffic. 7x weekly with 763's or 764's is a tough row against all the bigger planes the other operators are flying. They could go bigger of course, but where are they going to get those 777's from? (Barring new order of course.) It's not a market you open up half-assed, like you said. That said, I still think it's almost inevitable they'll open it. It will just be when they're more ready for a fight than they are at this moment.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
IAD380
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:10 am

Earlier this year, DL told Israel's Minister of Tourism that it wants to start JFK-TLV flights soon. The speculation is that these flights will start in late 2007 or early 2008. I assume that DL has determined that a new route between JFK and TLV will not detract from its ATL-TLV route. The Jerusalem Post reported that LY fears competing with DL on the JFK route. Aircraft allocation is the biggest challenge that DL faces if it launches flights from JFK to TLV. DL could probably compete with LY, CO, and even Israir on price. However, DL must also compete on service if it re-enters this market. I think that DL would have difficulty competing with CO and LY if it does not deploy a 777 on this route.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:26 am

The NYC to Israel market is enough to fill a plane in its own right... there is not detraction from what DL gets out of its ATL route.

DL has codeshared with LY for years... and vv. LY codes on DL's ATL flight also. They both know exactly where each other's traffic goes and what it's worth. There are also rumors that DL might sever its relationship with LY once it starts its own JFK route.

DL has about 20 767s that can be deployed on int'l routes when you consider the growth potential left from 764 conversions and the 757/767 swaps that will take place when the 757s start flying internationally. DL has plenty of capacity to add 6000 mile flights, well within the range of what the 767 can do on NYC-Middle East. DL is also supposedly talking about putting winglets on its int'l 767s which could push the range out even further.

Don't be surprised to see a raft of new service announcements surround DL's date to emerge from BK - which is about 5-6 weeks away.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:54 am

lets also remember DL has 2 T7s that can fly this route
ATL-LAX
ATL-FRA
these to planes are spare T7s and one could be put on the JFK-TLV flight
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jbmitt
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:04 am

ATL-LAX is the T7 spare, and waits for the ATL-NRT flight. Not enough time to send the plane to TLV and back, especially as the BOM-JFK flight is often delayed. ATL-FRA is done once ICN and DXB start 5/31 and 6/4
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:17 am

guys why does an airline have to operate the same aircraft to compete.

from a customer perspective there is no difference between a PTV fitted 777-200 and a PTV fitted 767-400ER.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet on DL flying to TLV.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:37 am

with a 767.

if DL decides to press its 777 fleet to the max, it won't be to fly JFK-TLV.



They do have some spare capacity but there will be no 777s flying to Europe by this summer. Spare capacity is from the ATL-JFK portion of the ATL-JFK-BOM roundtrip and the ground time in ATL as well as the ATL-LAX spare.

If DL decides to use its 777 spare capacity, my bets are on more India service; DL is not going to easily let CO become the dominant US airline to India after DL serving the country for 16 years.

And if DL used a 767 on ATL-TLV they would have the 777 aircraft to fly ATL-DEL.
 
jbmitt
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:13 am

ATL-TLV looks like it is at the absolute maximum range for the 763ER. If Delta were to go to DEL, I would anticipate a less than daily frequency on ICN, or DXB.

8 T7s
ATL-NRT
ATL-TLV
ATL-JFK-BOM
ATL-ICN
ATL-DXB

It could also be possible to run a through flight ATL-JFK-TLV and perhaps an additional JFK-TLV leg on 763ERs. It will only be a matter of time until Delta reaches critical mass, and fills up every last nook and cranny at the JFK facilities.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 13):
less than daily frequency on ICN, or DXB.

...which is what they intend to do at this point (for both)
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
rwsea
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:26 am

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 13):
If Delta were to go to DEL, I would anticipate a less than daily frequency on ICN, or DXB.

ICN and DXB will already be less than daily. The downtime is so that they have a spare, and it's for maintenance.
 
jbmitt
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:35 pm

I was aware that it was 3 and 4 times weekly as I recall... in order to make DEL work as another poster suggested, it would be further reduced. ATL-TLV on a 763 is a stretch....
 
MaverickM11
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RE: What Are The Chances For DL Starting TLV From JFK?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:24 pm

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 2):
There is tremendous flyer loyalty

Maybe to CO, but those flyers flew a shoddy LY for years and even filled Tower for god's sake...people will fill just about anything that connects New York to Israel.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
, adding a JFK-TLV service will have some impact on the ATL service

The ATL service has got to be mostly connecting traffic, as the local ATL/TLV market is small. NYC however, seems to have endless demand to Israel, so the only way it could hurt the ATL service is if DL intentionally connects a lot of traffic over JFK that they could otherwise connect over ATL, displacing higher yielding local NYC passengers.
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