teamregal
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:57 am

VS Alliance?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:28 pm

When is Virgin Atlantic going to choose an alliance? I would nominate SkyTeam as the best choice. Anyone else?
You would dare to challenge me? .........Insanity!
 
timboflier215
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:33 pm

SQ owns 49% of VS, so Star would make sense. But their application was, apparently, blocked by 2 existing members of that alliance. I can't see SQ being happy with VS joining forces with rival airlines in a rival alliance.
 
stylo777
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: VS Alliance?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 1):
SQ owns 49% of VS, so Star would make sense. But their application was, apparently, blocked by 2 existing members of that alliance. I can't see SQ being happy with VS joining forces with rival airlines in a rival alliance.

didn't know that SQ owns 49% however I don't think that VS will ever join an alliance. the markets they serve are already full of other airlines in other alliances. just take BA in OneWorld...
 
Concorde001
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:53 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:59 pm

The way Virgin is expanding its group of airlines, maybe we will see a 'Virgin Alliance'?





 
vermeer
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri May 12, 2000 6:21 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 1):
But their application was, apparently, blocked by 2 existing members of that alliance.

Really? I was not aware, to me *Alliance would have been a perfect fit. Do you know who the airlines where and their motivation?
 
BDL2DCA
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:46 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Vermeer (Reply 4):
Do you know who the airlines where and their motivation?

I would hazard a guess that it was United and BMI, or United and Lufthansa. UA and BM probably do not want the LHR competition. And UA and LH revenue share across the atlantic.
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timboflier215
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:11 am

Quoting Vermeer (Reply 4):

I assume one would have been bmi. There is no love lost between them, especially with impending open skies and the 2 airlines being on opposite sides of the fence on that issue. I'm not sure which the other airline was.



Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 3):
The way Virgin is expanding its group of airlines, maybe we will see a 'Virgin Alliance'?

The Virgin group certainly seems to be expanding to a world-wide reach. If all of the airlines linked up in terms of flight transfers etc, they could be a major alliance on their own.
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:16 am

Virgin always kept away from alliances and, whilst codesharing with DL and then CO and having a link with Midwest Express out of Boston, were always protective of what used to be their "uniqueness".

I'm not sure if they feel they need to join an alliance and, if they were to stitch their different airlines loosely together they would have an alliance across a controllable brand.
 
Rick767
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2000 8:11 pm

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:45 am

As already mentioned, VS applied to join the Star Alliance in 2006, but approval requires the unanimous agreement of all existing alliance members.

BD and UA are widely suspected of being the two votes which vetoed the application.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
boysteve
Posts: 885
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting Rick767 (Reply 8):
BD and UA are widely suspected of being the two votes which vetoed the application.

BD most definitely and I would expect UA rather than LH. This is because UA directly compete with VS aross the Atlantic whereas LH do not.
 
boswashsprstar
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:21 pm

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:39 am

I had also assumed that there was a cost element to VS's abstinence--does anyone know what the "dues" or other ongoing costs are related to alliance membership?
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4260
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:31 pm

Best scenario would be a VS take-over of BD and then entrance into STAR.

STAR really lacks a good connector from LHR unless you go to either Scandinavia or Germany.


Kris
 
sparklehorse12
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:19 pm

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:37 pm

DJ and VS have an alliance of sorts through Velocity Rewards as do EK and VS...? I went to book SYD to BKK and the fare was direct on EK but coming back was via Hong Kong on VS....either a glitch in the system or an alliance of sorts..?
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
challiday
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:54 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:12 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 11):
STAR really lacks a good connector from LHR

But do they need one? LH run a powerhouse of European, Asian, and African destinations from hubs in Germany. To be honest with you a VS addition to the Star Alliance, even if they tied up with BD in any way, wouldn't add anything to the expansion of the alliance.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:31 pm

Quoting Challiday (Reply 13):
To be honest with you a VS addition to the Star Alliance, even if they tied up with BD in any way, wouldn't add anything to the expansion of the alliance.

they would if they brought VK and DJ with them
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: VS Alliance?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:37 pm

Quoting TeamREGAL (Thread starter):
When is Virgin Atlantic going to choose an alliance?

I don't think it's a quesiton of when, rather if... VS seems to be doing all right on their own, and not being in an alliance also has its benefits - they can choose who they want to play with all the time... SQ, Star, CO, EK... not easy when you're tied up in an alliance,,

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 3):
The way Virgin is expanding its group of airlines, maybe we will see a 'Virgin Alliance'?

Doubt if that would be a good idea all over the board... the products are very diiferent, and it is essential to VS that they keep their high brand value on long-hauls, and that this not be diluted by short-haul airlines. However, some sort of agreements could be done of course, but let's not forget that TV never had anything to do with VS for instance

GO VS!!

Kevin777  Smile
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
challiday
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:54 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 14):
they would if they brought VK and DJ with them

VS does codeshare with VK but don't in anyway codeshare with DJ. Also VS only share the "Virgin" brand with VK and DJ. As VS don't own these two airlines (only 49% of them) they can't bring VK or DJ with them into any alliance.
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:09 am

Now UA has pulled out of JFK-LHR and reduced all it's other activity maybe they should try again.

As for BD..they will do as LH/SK/UA tells them (they all pay BD's losses)
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: VS Alliance?

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 6):
There is no love lost between them, especially with impending open skies and the 2 airlines being on opposite sides of the fence on that issue.

If they're seen as the enemy, I suppose BMI haven't heard those things about "it's important to keep friends closer..." or "if you can't beat'em..."

Fact: BMI can't fly from Heatrow to the USA and if they could as of tomorrow they don't have the equipment. They however have a decent operation out of MAN to ORD, LAS, ANU and BGI with two 330 based there.

Fact: Virgin Atlantic, however, can fly from Heathrow to some US destinations but have to mantain another base in LGW to fly to other US destinations. They also fly some routes from MAN to UVF, BGI and MCO but without a base there I imagine (flying to MAN via destination LON-XXX-MAN-XXX-LON)

They have FFP agreements, codeshare aggrements.... It's not they have to join Star alliance because of that (and the SQ ownership) but HELLOOO!!! Extensive cooperation à-la NW-KLM would be rather sensible. Am I the only one seeing the symbiosis? Virgin focused on LON longhaul, BMI focused on MAN longhaul and LHR mediumhaul (now with Bmed)

Even if they think it won't work out... How many people would have thought that the AF-QF relationship could be so successful for both of them?

Quoting Philb (Reply 7):
I'm not sure if they feel they need to join an alliance

Me neither. And when you take into consideration the size of Star... wow. I sometimes wonder how many people have used an Aer Lingus' Gold Circle card to enter the MEL lounge or the Spanair's Gold card to use the lounge at ICN.

Maybe it's more "profitable" for Virgin to have agreements on a one-to-one basis.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5822
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:37 am

With Singapore's Star limg, Virgin would ssem to be good for that alliance. Star has gotten so big Virgin wouldn't be a threat to any other airline. With its Continental code-share link and Delta frequent flyer reciprocity Skyteam would be good for Virgin. The best outcome would be Sir Richard Branson buying Sir Michael Bishop's BMI and joining Star, getting all those LHR slots BMI has.
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: VS Alliance?

Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 17):
As for BD..they will do as LH/SK/UA tells them

They bloody well should, too, but I'm afraid SMB has a lot to say, still.. God SK should have stayed away from that airline... but hindsight is 20/20..

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 19):
The best outcome would be Sir Richard Branson buying Sir Michael Bishop's BMI (...) getting all those LHR slots BMI has.

Which will happen over SMB's dead body, sadly...

Kevin777  Smile
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
UnitedFirst
Posts: 451
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2001 12:16 pm

RE: VS Alliance?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:45 am

Does anyone have a proper source (ie, not hear-say) that references VS's rejection from Star?

Derek
 
sq452
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:50 pm

Quoting BDL2DCA (Reply 5):
I would hazard a guess that it was United and BMI, or United and Lufthansa. UA and BM probably do not want the LHR competition. And UA and LH revenue share across the atlantic.

I'm actually a bit surprised that British Midland would object, simply due to the fact that you don't have a lot of flight overlap with VS, especially on transatlantic and asia routes. BD is very small as it is and it does not have much of an overseas presence, particularly to North America. I think the two could compliment eachother very well, and no chance in hell SQ would allow VS to join a competing alliance. My guess is it was UA and LH that objected.
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Rick767
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2000 8:11 pm

RE: VS Alliance?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting Aisak (Reply 18):
Fact: BMI can't fly from Heatrow to the USA and if they could as of tomorrow they don't have the equipment. They however have a decent operation out of MAN to ORD, LAS, ANU and BGI with two 330 based there.

You kind of defeated your own argument there. Do you seriously think if bmi could fly transatlantic from LHR as of tomorrow those 330s would last 5 minutes at MAN? That's why bmi bought them - in anticipation of open skies which never happened (but look likely to perhaps happen soon).

If (or when as some see it) EU-US open skies comes to fruition, bmi will be competing head-to-head with VS in no time on the North Atlantic.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
teamregal
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:57 am

RE: VS Alliance?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:43 am

This is exactly why VS would make a great fit into SkyTeam. I'm very much aware that SQ owns 49% of VS. It is also understood that Branson's crew is doing well on their own simply by codesharing. However, if VS did join SkyTeam, they would bring with them some new routes maybe not all being exploited by AF-KL?
You would dare to challenge me? .........Insanity!

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