Norcal773
Topic Author
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B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:06 pm

If you're going through hell, keep going
 
boeingguy1
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:18 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Thread starter):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17642725/

Here we go again.

Why is the focus always on B6? Theyre main hub is JFK, which is supposed to get a hell of a big storm today. Of course they are going to have to cancel flights! What about AA? DL? CO?

...sometimes I think people just post things because they arent fans of certain airlines...
Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
 
JetJock22
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:22 pm

Here we go again? If we didn't cancel, people would complain. We proactively cancel and people complain. Don't you have anything better to do than badmouth B6?
 
ltbewr
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:28 pm

The reason for the attention is B6's meltdown in the last big storm in the Northeast USA, combined with the media disaster that it became for them. They are not going to put themselves or their customers in that same problem again, with what could be nasty rain/sleet/ice/snow conditions through about noon Saturday at the airports they operate at in the NYC area. Of course, it screws up the plans of their customers, but better they are angry at home rather than at the airport in front of TV cameras. Yes, other airlines will be each cancelling many flights as well, but the big ones can better deal with such weather, can divert a/c's to other airports easier, and so on.
 
Norcal773
Topic Author
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:28 pm

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 1):
...sometimes I think people just post things because they arent fans of certain airlines...



Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 2):
Here we go again? If we didn't cancel, people would complain. We proactively cancel and people complain. Don't you have anything better to do than badmouth B6?

Woow, woow hold your sock buddy! Don't shoot the messenger. There's nothing out there saying AA or DL will cancel flights so what am I supposed to do, make up a link and start another thread? I wonder why yaal are so defensive, somebody was gonna post it sooner or later....and where exactly did I badmouth B6?  boggled 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
Alitalia744
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:30 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 4):
Woow, woow hold your sock buddy! Don't shoot the messenger. There's nothing out there saying AA or DL will cancel flights so what am I supposed to do, make up a link and start another thread? I wonder why yaal are so defensive, somebody was gonna post it sooner or later....and where exactly did I badmouth B6?

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
deltagator
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 1):
What about AA? DL? CO?

Can't speak for AA or CO but the news here in ATL said DL was cancelling 100 or so flights today.

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 1):
Why is the focus always on B6? Theyre main hub is JFK, which is supposed to get a hell of a big storm today.

The focus is on them because of the complete meltdown they had last month with the storm. Their reliance on JFK as the main hub hurts them since they have a tougher time recovering and don't have the ability to move passengers through other hubs as the larger airlines do.

Is the media focus overkill? Yeah, it probably is but given the reliance on one hub in a winter weather prone area it will continue to make the news.

Quoting JetJock22 (Reply 2):
If we didn't cancel, people would complain. We proactively cancel and people complain.

If you don't cancel folks get pissed because they get to the airport and can't get their blue chips. If you do cancel then folks get pissed because now they are at home without their blue chips. It's a lose-lose situation.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
JetJock22
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:39 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 6):
If you don't cancel folks get pissed because they get to the airport and can't get their blue chips. If you do cancel then folks get pissed because now they are at home without their blue chips. It's a lose-lose situation.

Haha, thats great. Did you know that the Blue Chips are actually made from blue potatoes? There is no dye involved at all. I just hate cleaning them up because they blend in with the carpet on the 190's....
 
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Revelation
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:25 pm

As for having one hub at JFK, you have to take the good with the bad. Sure, it looks lousy on an extremely bad weather day, but the rest of the year it's great to have access to that huge NYC O&D market.

Interesting to hear Delta execs say they wish they could buy B6 and get the kind of access to JFK that B6 enjoys.
Inspiration, move me brightly!
 
EMBQA
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:11 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 4):
There's nothing out there saying AA or DL will cancel flights

Delta is cancelling around 200 flights....
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
bayareablue
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:13 pm

To be honest, I do not think anyone that has posted in this forum is bashing B6. I am a big B6 supporter (used to work for them) and I was there during Feb's incident. It was said that they were going to do a better job at getting ahead of the oncoming storms by being proactive about cancelations. They are doing so in this instance by canceling ahead of time, contacting customers who have given them phone numbers (not everyone enters a number where they can always be reached) so they can be told and rescheduled, rebooked, or be given a refund or credit. The other thing I have noticed that B6 seems to do, when there is an issue like weather in one city, they tend to try to make up for it as soon as the weather clears up by adding extra sections or chartering bigger a/c. Lets take the Denver storm in Dec. as an example. There are only 3 flights a day out of DEN (2 to JFK and 1 to BOS). On the first day, flights were all canceled but the next day was slated to have 4 extra sections run to get everyone to and from Den. The second day, still no ops at DEN, so they decided to operate 8 extra sections the next day to make up for the previous two days. This time of year, they do have extra a/c in JFK used as "snowbirds" in case something like this happens to not affect the downline flights. All in all, I think they seem to be doing a better job the second time around, but we will have to see how quick they can get to full speed once the storm clears.
 
Mir
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:13 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 4):
There's nothing out there saying AA or DL will cancel flights so what am I supposed to do, make up a link and start another thread?

Well, there is another thread on the more general topic: Ice Storm In NYC Tomorrow? (by Mir Mar 16 2007 in Civil Aviation)

And DL is cancelling flights. Pretty much every airline that flies to the northeast is putting out advisories for it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
AvionAzul
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:20 pm

ALL B6 FLIGHTS IN OR OUT OF JFK, LGA, EWR ARE CANCELLED AS OF 1120 LCL
 
OPNLguy
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:21 pm

SWA has cancelled most of the ISP flights for today as well....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
longhaulheavy
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:24 pm

I'm in central NY right now. No snow yet. I'm crossing my fingers that whatever we get tonight and tomorrow isn't enough to cancel my NW flight tomorrow afternoon. (So far, NW's weather waiver doesn't cover tomorrow afternoon.)
 
Mir
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting BayAreaBlue (Reply 10):
They are doing so in this instance by canceling ahead of time, contacting customers who have given them phone numbers (not everyone enters a number where they can always be reached) so they can be told and rescheduled, rebooked, or be given a refund or credit.

Do they email people? I'm flying with DL today (or not flying as the case may be), and when my flight got cancelled I got rebooked for Sunday, and not told about it. I don't know whether I gave them a phone number or not, but I know they have my email address, and I would have really been pissed if I had driven an hour and a half to MCO to find out that the flight had been cancelled and I had been rebooked for a different day.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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fxramper
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:43 pm

Another episode of B6 having to park planes to "reset" their system is going to cost them a lot more than passengers in the future.

I've seen nothing official about the number of flights that legacies are cancelling.
 
icebird757
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Thread starter):
Here we go again.

People love picking on B6. I guess it's no big deal that DL cancelled 200 flights also and both UA and CO cancelled flights.
LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
 
Tristarfreak
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:31 am

Not again Alert the media  Smile!!!
 
WesternA318
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 16):
Another episode of B6 having to park planes to "reset" their system is going to cost them a lot more than passengers in the future.

I've seen nothing official about the number of flights that legacies are cancelling.



Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 1):
Why is the focus always on B6? Theyre main hub is JFK, which is supposed to get a hell of a big storm today. Of course they are going to have to cancel flights! What about AA? DL? CO?

Who cares about AA, DL or CO? They knew they might have to cancel some flights, so theyve alerted their pax, and rebooked them. They never went around saying it was a privilege for the pax to fly them, or think that blue tortilla chips and tv would pacify their pax.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
tu154
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting Icebird757 (Reply 17):
People love picking on B6.

People love to pick on US, UA, AA, DL , and now B6. Its the nature of this forum. The only airline not really picked on is CO.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
bayareablue
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
Do they email people?

I am unsure if B6 reservations uses email for contacting customers if there is no phone number. They will access the reservation and call the number(s) listed, if no answer a message is left. I encountered many customers that came to the airport for their canceled flight and knowing that they were called I ask if they got a call. If they said no, I would check their reservation comments and sure enough they were called and I tell the customer they were called at such and such number and they would say that is my work number. I often would tell customers to put down a main contact number that they could always be reached at (a la a cell number) as well as enter another number where they were going (like a relative/friend picking them up).

Quoting FXramper (Reply 16):
Another episode of B6 having to park planes to "reset" their system is going to cost them a lot more than passengers in the future.

So you are suggesting they try to operate flights in adverse conditions (don't know what is like right now back there, only have the forcasts to go on), put the customer's and crewmember's safety in jeopordy, and strand a/c and crews all over the country (ie. trying to fly to JFK from out stations and having to divert to another airport, the crew then timing out leaving an aircraft out of place without a legal crew)? I don't necessarly think this is going to cost them customers. It will upset customers that they cannot get to where they want to go today but they can understand if both the WX is bad and other carriers are not going either. Now if an a/c sat on the tarmac with customers again, then yes that would cost them customers, simply for the fact that they did not learn their lesson.
Bottom line in my opinion, they are doing what is best for the customer's and the company based upon the company values that is the foundation of JetBlue.
 
dartland
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting BayAreaBlue (Reply 10):
To be honest, I do not think anyone that has posted in this forum is bashing B6. I am a big B6 supporter (used to work for them) and I was there during Feb's incident. It was said that they were going to do a better job at getting ahead of the oncoming storms by being proactive about cancelations. They are doing so in this instance by canceling ahead of time, contacting customers who have given them phone numbers (not everyone enters a number where they can always be reached) so they can be told and rescheduled, rebooked, or be given a refund or credit.



Quoting Icebird757 (Reply 17):

People love picking on B6. I guess it's no big deal that DL cancelled 200 flights also and both UA and CO cancelled flights.

Well -- I am usually a huge B6 fan -- but YES, I AM GOING TO BASH Jetblue right now ---

I was booked on B6 92 yesterday, the SLC-JFK red-eye. The plane was coming in from LGB and I figured it could get into JFK before the weather. They cancelled the flight at ~6pm local time! First they cancelled the inbound from LGB, then reinstated that leg. So a B6 plane with a full crew landed at SLC on-time and they would not send it on to JFK!!!

Meanwhile, I got myself a ticket on DL. Both DL AND CO's red-eyes went off and landed on-time!!! We landed at a business-as-usual JFK this morning -- few delays, relatively benign weather.

Also -- B6 did finally e-mail me about my cancellation at 8pm SLC time, but never called me (and my phone number is on my reservation confirmation).

B6 is running scared from bad weather. Who in their right mind would buy a ticket on B6 when they are so cancel-happy, while other airlines are running flights? Sure, all the airlines are cancelling flights today, but nowhere near the magnitude of B6. If they can't operate in this kind of weather, they shouldn't be in this business (let alone with a hub at JFK).

I was previously a huge supporter of B6, but I can't see myself booking them again when I know that DL, CO, or US offers a higher liklihood of getting me to my destination, albeit w/o TVs or leg-room.

Not to mention -- B6 has not fixed their customer service issues. All evening yesterday, you couldn't get a rep on the phone and they said "call back later" and hung up on you! And when I did get a B6 rep on the phone yesterday afternoon, they told me my flight was NOT cancelled, even though jetblue.com said it was cancelled. I even made her check with a supervisor, who confirmed the flight was "on time". How can the systems the reps are using not be as up to date as the web-site? So of course they couldn't help me change the flight, and then when I tried to call back, I got the "call back later" message.
 
Logos
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 16):
Another episode of B6 having to park planes to "reset" their system is going to cost them a lot more than passengers in the future.

That does not seem to be the case here. To avoid such a situation, jetBlue is being proactive in this case. This is actually what they should have done on Valentine's Day to avoid having passengers spend 8+ hours out on the ramp, which generated the lion's share of bad publicity for them. In reality, the ongoing shutdown of all E-190 routes (and almost 25% of their flights with them) for 5 days after the event, which was the real newsworthy story about that.

JetBlue will continue to get scrutiny every time there is an adverse weather event at JFK no matter how they respond to it, and they should expect that. They screwed the pooch in the extreme before and then their CEO went on every media outlet he could saying it would never happen again. When you make that sort of public pledge, you had better expect that there will be public scrutiny to see if you're living up to your word. I expect that the media will tire of this in time provided jetBlue doesn't do something stupid again.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
OPNLguy
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting Dartland (Reply 22):
Who in their right mind would buy a ticket on B6 when they are so cancel-happy, while other airlines are running flights?

Man oh man, B6 just can't win. Before, it was "they should of cancelled." Now they're "cancel-happy." Next thing you know, people will start complaining about how "crowded" the terminals are (because they're not pushing back loaded flights when they know there will be a big ground delay.)

I get the distinct impression that B6 could pay each pax $50 to fly them, and folks would still find something to complain about...

As far as other airlines flying in and landing in "benign" weather, looking at the forecasts, that's for each to decide. NWS forecasts are by no means Gospel, and had the other airines found conditions worse when they arrived in the area and diverted, we'd be hearing about how "screwed up" those airlines were.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 16):
I've seen nothing official about the number of flights that legacies are cancelling.

It's because it is strategic planning on the airlines part to keep crews, planes and minimal delays in check. Honestly, there should be no news about it, but for some reason there is. You don't get national press releases for Amtrak schedules, national press releases for school closures and the like.

The fact that people here bring B6 shows that a fresh wound takes a while to heal. Soon it will be a distant memory and will no longer need to be news.

Yes, CO did cancel flights, precancelled starting as early as yesterday afternoon. Preemptive strike, so to speak. Just proactive planning.
You can't cure stupid
 
dartland
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 24):
Man oh man, B6 just can't win. Before, it was "they should of cancelled." Now they're "cancel-happy." Next thing you know, people will start complaining about how "crowded" the terminals are (because they're not pushing back loaded flights when they know there will be a big ground delay.)

I get the distinct impression that B6 could pay each pax $50 to fly them, and folks would still find something to complain about...

As far as other airlines flying in and landing in "benign" weather, looking at the forecasts, that's for each to decide. NWS forecasts are by no means Gospel, and had the other airines found conditions worse when they arrived in the area and diverted, we'd be hearing about how "screwed up" those airlines were.

You never heard me say "the should have cancelled". I think their previous methodology worked just fine, they just needed to work out the kinks (e.g. finding a way to get people off planes that have been sitting for 5 hours +).

I looked at the forecast. So did DL. So did CO. Weather.com, NWS, Accuweather -- all of them made it clear that the weather at 530-600AM at JFK would be fairly benign. Not even a shred of doubt that JFK would be open and running fine with limited early morning traffic.

Why did only B6 not send in their plane? They have swung so far in the early-cancel direction that they are making irresponsible decisions. Given that a cancellation is so catasrophic on B6 (my friend who was on that flight with me is still stuck in SLC and had to buy a ticket on another airline in order to get back before Mon/Tue) -- they have a responsibility to make a good faith effort to fly the flight. They clearly did not make a good faith effort last night.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:33 am

I posted this in another thread, but it has great relevance here as well...

One of the things I don't think people realize about this past winter season is that more types of frozen precip can hamper or even preclude operations.

-FZDZ, light freezing drizzle, no change, can still operate.
FZDZ, moderate freezing drizzle, no change, CANNOT operate.
+FZDZ, heavy freezing drizzle, no change, CANNOT operate.

-FZRA, light freezing rain, no change, can still operate.
FZRA, moderate freezing rain, no change, CANNOT operate.
+FZRA, heavy freezing rain, no change, CANNOT operate.

-PL, light ice pellets, can land, new tighter restrictions on takeoffs.
PL, moderate ice pellets, can land, now CANNOT takeoff.
+PL heavy ice pellets, can land, now CANNOT takeoff.

-SN, light snow, can land, can takeoff.
SN, moderate snow, can land, can takeoff.
+SN heavy snow, can land, new restrictions on takeoffs.

The biggest problem has been the ice pellets. For all practical purposes, if they are moderate or heavy, you usually don't land, since the aircraft will be unable to depart. This is why you see alot more pre-emptive cancellations, since the airlines don't want aircraft stuck at airports.

The other big problem has been combinations of precip types. If just light ice pellets (-PL) are falling, you can depart as long as certain de-icing conditions are met. If it's light ice pellets and rain (-PLRA), you can't depart. Ditto for any other type of precip falling at the same time -PL is falling.

The last big problem are the transitional weather systems with precip that start out as a liquid (drizzle or rain) and ends up being snow. It's not the one or the other of those precip type that gets you, but it's the constant fluctuation between the various other types of frozen precip, and that can change from minute-to-minute. That also affects de-icing, as you may have to stop (based on what may be falling that precludes departing), and then start over when that type of restrictive precip stops. If the precip type goes back and forth a couple times, it can be really maddening, and the delays get all that much longer, not to mention using one hell of alot more de-icing and anti-icing fluids that could cause you to run completely out alot sooner.

Look at all the different precip types that have fallen at JFK in the last 6 hours, and also note the erratic nature between types of frozen precip, and the short time intervals between some of the changes:

KJFK 161651Z 04016G27KT 1 1/2SM -PL BR BKN012 OVC018 M01/M03 A3014 RMK AO2 PK WND 04029/1641 SFC VIS 2 SNE23 SLP205 BKN V SCT P0004 T10111033
KJFK 161616Z 04018G23KT 1 1/2SM R04R/6000VP6000FT PLSN BR FEW006 BKN010 OVC027 M01/M03 A3016 RMK AO2 P0002
KJFK 161604Z 04017G22KT 1 1/2SM R04R/3500V5500FT +PLSN FEW007 BKN012 OVC027 M01/M03 A3017 RMK AO2 P0001
KJFK 161551Z 05014KT 2SM PLSN FEW012 SCT016 OVC027 M01/M03 A3018 RMK AO2 PK WND 06027/1500 SNB02 CIG 013 W SLP218 P0007 T10061033 $
KJFK 161451Z 05016KT 4SM PL BKN017 OVC027 M01/M03 A3021 RMK AO2 PK WND 05026/1422 FZRAE18 SLP230 BKN V SCT P0006 60008 T10061033 58007
KJFK 161418Z 05019G24KT 4SM PL BKN014 BKN022 OVC027 00/M03 A3022 RMK AO2 FZRAE18 P0003
KJFK 161351Z 03011KT 2 1/2SM -FZRAPL BR OVC014 M01/M03 A3023 RMK AO2 PLB01 SLP235 P0002 T10061028
KJFK 161301Z 04014G22KT 7SM -FZRAPL FEW008 OVC014 00/M03 A3022 RMK AO2 PLB01 P0000
KJFK 161251Z 04017G23KT 9SM -FZRA FEW008 OVC014 00/M03 A3023 RMK AO2 SNB27E38 SLP235 P0000 T00001028
KJFK 161240Z 04019G24KT 10SM -FZRA FEW008 OVC014 00/M03 A3023 RMK AO2 SNB27E38 P0000
KJFK 161151Z 04017KT 10SM -FZRA FEW008 OVC018 00/M03 A3024 RMK AO2 FZRAB17PLE17SNE32 SLP238 931002 P0000 60009 70041 T00001028 10022 20000 51008 $

KJFK 161417Z 161412 04012G20KT 2SM -FZRAPL BR FEW008 OVC015
FM1600 04020G30KT 2SM PLSN BR OVC012
FM0200 03020G30KT 1/2SM +FZRAPL FZFG OVC004
FM0400 36018G28KT 3SM FZRA BR SCT007 OVC012
FM0900 35016G26KT 6SM -SNPL BR OVC025
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 27):
I posted this in another thread, but it has great relevance here as well...

...but I just called home. My ____ says it's just cloudy, why the delays... (can you hear it now, or how many times have you heard that)
You can't cure stupid
 
OPNLguy
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Dartland (Reply 26):
You never heard me say "the should have cancelled".

I never said you (in particular) did, and my comment referred to the post-Valentine's Day stuff going around, some of which appears in this thread.

Quoting Dartland (Reply 26):
Not even a shred of doubt that

Anyone who relies on a NWS TAF as an "absolute" is likely to be disappointed. If they had forecasts accurate beyond "even a shred of doubt", we wouldn't have any forecasts, since they'd be out buying winning Lotto tickets and picking stocks.

Quoting Dartland (Reply 26):
Why did only B6 not send in their plane?

SWA cancelled almost all of their ISP flights, and that's just a little further east. The originating aircraft (that stayed overnight) will probably be the only fights to operate. It's quite likely that other airlines have cancelled as well, but that you just haven't heard about them yet, especially since the media won't let B6 out of their crosshairs.

Quoting Dartland (Reply 26):
Given that a cancellation is so catasrophic on B6

A cancellation, by any airline isn't catastrophic--it's an inconvenience. Crashes with fatalities are catastrophic.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 28):
...but I just called home. My ____ says it's just cloudy, why the delays... (can you hear it now, or how many times have you heard that)

If I had a buck for every time, I'd be retired and on the beach...  Wink

Maybe all the flights could line up for final to their driveway...  scratchchin 
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4431
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 8):
As for having one hub at JFK, you have to take the good with the bad. Sure, it looks lousy on an extremely bad weather day, but the rest of the year it's great to have access to that huge NYC O&D market.

This is key. Having a hubs in cities like New York City and Chicago where in winter there can be tons of snow causing huge delays is the price for serveing the high O&D in the markets. No place is perfect. Even here in Los Angeles (where the weather is perfect) we get the occasional heavy fog that causes delays.

I dont think anyone is bashing B6. No one is immune to weather and no one can control it. What are you going to do? Say "God, would you mind postponing the storm until the middle of the night and can you remove it by morning"?
It is what it is...
 
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fxramper
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 19):
They knew they might have to cancel some flights

Exactly. Middle management realized this at legacies and moved around a/c and crews prior to weather. This wasn't the case for B6 in the past.

Quoting Logos (Reply 23):
proactive

 confused 

Failure to assess these types of situations that arise in operations gives B6 no more credibility than before. As far as B6 is concerned, the last winter storm happened a few weeks ago. Bad form.

 no 
 
InTheSky74
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:29 am

Hmm where is the thread about USAirways cancelling over 410 flights for today so far?

That is what th USA Today is reporting - yet, you don't see it being brought up on here.

JetBlue did the right thing this time - and was pre-emptive. If they hadn't, people would have complained.

Good for JetBlue. They are doing the RIGHT thing...
 
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fxramper
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting InTheSky74 (Reply 33):
yet, you don't see it being brought up on here

Opinions are relative. This thread is proof. US didn't hiccup and shut down operations for several days.

The thread is about B6.
 
Cory6188
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting InTheSky74 (Reply 33):
JetBlue did the right thing this time - and was pre-emptive. If they hadn't, people would have complained.

My main comparison point through all of this is CO @ EWR, and sure, while they do have cancelled flights, many of them are still going out either delayed or not too far off from on time (1 hour max, for example). So what the heck is going on at B6 which is forcing them to cancel everything?
 
slider
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 24):
Man oh man, B6 just can't win. Before, it was "they should of cancelled." Now they're "cancel-happy."

Well, there is something to be said about their perceived 'chasing the needle' now with this incident.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 30):
If I had a buck for every time, I'd be retired and on the beach...

Yeah, me too! Preferably on a beach in SXM watching the planes land!

Or if I had a nickel for every customer who said "I just talked to so-and-so in (fill in destination city here) and it's sunny there!"

I just want to bang my head on the counter.
 
deltairlines
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:29 am

Seems like all they are talking about on New York newsradio today is JetBlue - they're only talking about how they've cancelled over 200 flights and that their stock is slightly down.

Then again, I'm not surprised - they screwed up bigtime last storm, only fitting that the media is following up and seeing what they do when the next one hits.
 
B777ER
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Thread starter):
Here we go again.

 yawn  next....

Quoting Dartland (Reply 22):
B6 is running scared from bad weather. Who in their right mind would buy a ticket on B6 when they are so cancel-happy, while other airlines are running flights? Sure, all the airlines are cancelling flights today, but nowhere near the magnitude of B6. If they can't operate in this kind of weather, they shouldn't be in this business (let alone with a hub at JFK).

All I can say is WOW. Your picture in the dictionary is posted next to "armchair (fill in the blank)". It would also say "see also, clueless".
 
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ERJ170
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:42 am

So, will this make B6 consider building up anohter one of their focus cities? I know this isn't a normal event during the winter, but it's also not that abnormal... and during the summer, thunderstorms could cause the same problem..

So could we see B6 opening some options for connections not involving JFK and BOS in the near future?

Just wondering..

I think they are doing the right thing by cancelling,.... better safe than sorry..
Aiming High and going far..
 
bond007
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 35):
My main comparison point through all of this is CO @ EWR, and sure, while they do have cancelled flights, many of them are still going out either delayed or not too far off from on time (1 hour max, for example). So what the heck is going on at B6 which is forcing them to cancel everything?

Right now, CO (and only CO) has a ground stop into EWR.

PROBABILITY OF EXTENSION: MEDIUM
REASON: OTHER / CUSTOMER REQUEST
REMARKS: STOP COA FLIGHTS ONLY

Personally, I'd rather be sitting at home, knowing my B6 flight was cancelled this morning, rather than sitting in an airport all night waiting for my CO flight to depart ... but that's just me  Wink

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Mir
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 40):
Personally, I'd rather be sitting at home, knowing my B6 flight was cancelled this morning, rather than sitting in an airport all night waiting for my CO flight to depart ... but that's just me

See, I'm the other way. My DL flight was cancelled in the wee hours of this morning (8pm departure tonight), but I wouldn't have a problem going out to the airport in the hope that something would change and it would be able to go. But that's just me.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
tu154
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 37):
Seems like all they are talking about on New York newsradio today is JetBlue - they're only talking about how they've cancelled over 200 flights and that their stock is slightly down.

The way the media is handling this reminds me of PEOPLExpress back in the 80's. When they first started flying the media loved them. Great airline, management, employees, business model etc. People flocked to the airline and it grew, grew, grew. Then it got out of control, delays, cancellations, bad press.........and the media did the rest. In no way am I blaming media, or comparing B6 to PE, just comparing the situation.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
flybyguy
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting InTheSky74 (Reply 33):
Hmm where is the thread about USAirways cancelling over 410 flights for today so far?

That is what th USA Today is reporting - yet, you don't see it being brought up on here.

JetBlue did the right thing this time - and was pre-emptive. If they hadn't, people would have complained.

Good for JetBlue. They are doing the RIGHT thing...

 checkmark 

I figure this is all part of political retribution against a formerly stellar airline as it "falls from grace". People love stars, but people love stars even more when their flaws overshadow their own.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
flight7e7
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:40 am

UA has cncld all PHL services today, and AA isnt far behind. I was supposed to be PHL/LAX/TPE this evening, but not going to happen. However, since it is intl, I had to call UA, as is UA ticket....held for count 'em, two hours...finally called SQ...fully realzing that SQ would reply right away..well that took about 30 mins on the PPS/Business class line, why, THEY too were fielding calls regarding the JFK/SIN and EWR/SIN flights this evening. So, in the end, everyone is affected. SQ finally called their UA interline number, went above the call of duty, reissued the tkt, send a email conf. and ready to move on out tomorrow eve, same show.

My take on this whole issue, being an anally retentive detail and logistics person...is the level of communication...it is ultimately the unknown that people get ticked about.....if they have sensible people, providing up to date and realistic information to the best of their ability, I beleive that in the end, while frustrating at best, most people will appreciate being "in the know" so to speak-it's not knowing what is next, in mho is the crux of the disappointment and disdain.

So, weather is weather-folks. Keep in mind how difficult it was for AA EOY 2006 in Dallas....grin and bear it. Safety first.

Cheers!
 
tu154
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:37 am

RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:25 am

The numbers are up to 400 cancellations and this article states that other airlines, AA, DL, etc cancelled 400+ flights combined. It also goes on to say that B6 "was once the darling of the industry." I can remember those exact words describing PEOPLExpress and Air Florida. See how powerful the media is and how it can make or break something.





http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/070316/1433702.html?.v=1e
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
VEEREF
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:31 am

And you can bet that Virgin America and Skybus will also be the "darlings" of the industry until the novelty wears off. After that they will be nothing but more jets clogging up ramps during snowstorms.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2609
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 40):
Right now, CO (and only CO) has a ground stop into EWR.

PROBABILITY OF EXTENSION: MEDIUM
REASON: OTHER / CUSTOMER REQUEST
REMARKS: STOP COA FLIGHTS ONLY

Okay, well then I take back my original comment.  Smile

Clearly, CO doesn't have their act together as much as I thought...
 
OPNLguy
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:51 am

SWA has cancelled over 300 flights to/from various NE airports, and the night isn't over yet...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
blueflyer
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RE: B6 Cancels 215 Flights Due To Storm

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 40):
Personally, I'd rather be sitting at home, knowing my B6 flight was cancelled this morning, rather than sitting in an airport all night waiting for my CO flight to depart ... but that's just me

Hehe, almost found myself in that exact situation. I found out this morning my inbound to EWR was canceled. I called CO, they tried their best to get me to EWR still because my outbound transatlantic flight was a go... Lucky for me, they did not get me to EWR, because my outbound flight is now canceled as well...

Probably one of the few times I'm happy CO's efforts to accommodate me were not successful. What's it like to sleep at the airport in Newark anyhow, I'm betting whoever's stuck there isn't going to find a room....
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