LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:11 am

Friday, March 16, 2007

go! sets off new round of $19 fares

Interisland carrier go! announced a new round of $19 one-way fares to coincide with the launch of its new service to Lana'i, Moloka'i and Kapalua, Maui.

go!, a unit of Phoenix-based Mesa Air Group, said go!Express will begin operations on April 16 with 12 daily flights between Honolulu and Lana'i, Moloka'i and Kapalua.

The new venture, which will fly Cessna Grand Caravan aircraft, is in partnership with Kailua, Kona-based Mokulele Airlines.

"This new go!Express partnership will extend our network and offer go!'s market-leading low fares to more travelers throughout Hawai'i," said Jonathan Ornstein, Mesa's chief executive officer.



Full Article
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...20070316/BUSINESS03/703160362/1071


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ILOVEA340
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:33 am

Thats gotta be a first... A regional Airline haveing an express carrier...
why not jsut call the operation US Airways Express Express  Wink
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 1):
Thats gotta be a first... A regional Airline having an express carrier...

Agreed. This will be funny to see how competition reacts.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:01 am

Such a waste of a perfectly good Caravan.  Sad
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
SpencerII
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
Such a waste of a perfectly good Caravan

iI'm at a loss as to why it's a waste. Could you expound?
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 1):
why not jsut call the operation US Airways Express Express

Because go! flights aren't US Airways Express to begin with?
 
AlexPorter
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:10 am

RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting Hawaiian717 (Reply 5):
Because go! flights aren't US Airways Express to begin with?

Unless I'm wrong, it seems like he was being sarcastic. He winked and everything.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
Such a waste of a perfectly good Caravan.

Unless your meaning its a waste cause its now operating for GO!, but I think the colourscheme looks wicked on it
 
NoBoeingNoGoin
Posts: 106
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:57 pm

I wonder what the pilot pay scale is on that!
 
flyorski
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 4):
iI'm at a loss as to why it's a waste. Could you expound

I think he was being sarcastic.......

I like the paint on this Caravan though........
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
HA767
Posts: 22
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:49 am

The Walmartinization of the Hawaiian Interisland market continues.......... Great for the flying public, but desaterous for the other local carriers, especially Island Air at this point. Even the smaller mom and pop operations such as Molokai Air Shuttle will feel the pain from thier entry into the Molokai segment.

[Edited 2007-03-17 19:49:54]
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:51 am

This is too bad. Its not good for the flying public for long. The guy who runs Mesa has publicly stated his intention is to put Hawaiian and Aloha out of business. Once that happens, watch these $19 fares turn into $349 fares.... on a substandard bottom feeder airline.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 1):
why not jsut call the operation US Airways Express Express

Its like Catch-22... Major Major Major Major!
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
SpencerII
Posts: 259
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting HA767 (Reply 10):
The Walmartinization of the Hawaiian Interisland market continues.......... Great for the flying public, but desaterous for the other local carriers, especially Island Air at this point. Even the smaller mom and pop operations such as Molokai Air Shuttle will feel the pain from thier entry into the Molokai segment

Yes, and Mesa was there at one point in it's history too. I recall Mesa-Air Shuttle running Navajos from FArmington to Albuquerque in the 80's, only to see other carriers walk into FMN and create competition with them, destroying their feed to ABQ. While I am not coming to the defense of Mesa on every front, I think the Hawaiian Based carriers use that line of thinking far too much as though they are in this little protected lagoon of the Hawaiian Islands with a captive audience, and becasue of that they deserve protectionism. Hawaii is not the United State of Hawaii, it is part of the US, and if Island Air (et al) wants to compete directly on the mainland, there is nothing stopping them from doing it. It's called Survival of the Fittest. Furthermore, nothing is keeping HA or AQ from operating mainland point to point service, other than the parameters they place on themselves. IF AQ or HA were to dissappear tomorrow, someone would step in and re-create the void (remember BN in DFW) And yes, we are seeing that happen with one brave Hawaiian carrier pickup up the EAS cities from Mesa over in New Mexico. So rather than bellyaching continually with "they took our information and ran with it", why not create other revenue streams outside your comfort zone? It amazes me how the placement of 4 airplanes can create such havoc in boardrooms.
 
777fan
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting ILOVEA340 (Reply 1):
Thats gotta be a first... A regional Airline haveing an express carrier...

From what I understand, it's not very different from what AQ was doing when they had the Dash-8s in their fleet (which subsequently were sold off to become what is now Island Air). There are size constraints at many of the smaller Hawaiian airports that effectively prohibit anything larger than said Dash-8s from operating there. Despite their size, many of the smaller island communities (MKK, LNY, etc.) are wholly dependant on air travel; go! obviously wants to capitalize on the demand and build customer loyalty in the process.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 7):
I think the colourscheme looks wicked on it

I agree. I especially like the wave just forward of the wing assembly.

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 13):
called Survival of the Fittest

No doubt. Having just moved from the Islands after 3+ years of living there, I can attest to the protectionist mentality that plagues many of the local businesses there. Outsiders are often not welcomed - even if they offer a similar or better product at a better price (Walgreens is the latest company to feel the wrath as it tries to compete against Long's Drugs which isn't even a "Hawaiian" company to begin with).


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
Cadet57
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 11):
This is too bad. Its not good for the flying public for long. The guy who runs Mesa has publicly stated his intention is to put Hawaiian and Aloha out of business. Once that happens, watch these $19 fares turn into $349 fares.... on a substandard bottom feeder airline

You honestly beleive that Messup will take down AQ and Hawaiian? Step off the sauce bro, step off the sauce...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:07 pm

Something one needs to remember with the go!Express is that Mesa did not create a new subsidiary, its simply branded its name with an existent local carrier - Mokulele Airlines of Kona.

The relationship is somewhat a lifeline to Mokulee, whom was primarily a charter carrier only offering scheduled services in the last few years. The go! affiliation adds feed to Mokulee's routes and helps sell the carrier to a wider audience that would likely never even heard nor consider its flights, while go! manages now to offer services to smaller non-jet airport communities benefiting both locals and tourist.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
777fan
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:05 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 16):
while go! manages now to offer services to smaller non-jet airport communities benefiting both locals and tourist.

No doubt, (see my earlier post) but with the reception they received in the Islands, you'd think that go! was stealing money from the Hawaiian public at large. They've been criticized/accused ad nauseum of underpaying employees, undercutting fares, not being "local" enough, attempting to drive AQ out of business and using HA's ch11 papers to target its most profitable fares. Fact of the matter is, HA and AQ could've branded the Mokulele flights a long time ago but opted not to. Tough cookies...don't lambast go! for attempting to expand its appeal.

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 11):
Once that happens, watch these $19 fares turn into $349 fares.... on a substandard bottom feeder airline.

This is such a loaded statement since it wouldn't be go!'s fault that a competitor went under. In a worst-case scenario in which either AQ or HA were to go bye-bye, go! would no doubt step in with additional aircraft and yes, the $19 fares would be a thing of the past thanks in part to the basic tenant of capitalism: the law of supply and demand. Less supply = more demand = higher costs. Why would that be go!'s fault? As it pertains to the Hawaiian market, the onus of responsibility falls upon AQ and HA; if they fail to operate efficiently, retain brand recognition etc., they're certain to "go!" under! AQ and HA have been around for years and have kama'aina loyalty, established route networks and dedicated employees to their advantage. That said, it appears that for at least the time being, there's room for three jet carriers in Hawaii.


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
SpencerII
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:17 am

The history of airline service in Hawaii shows that HA and AQ are much more re-active than proactive about innovation and spreading their wings to new opportunities, with HA being a little more proactive than AQ. If they both continue to centralize their entire existance on business to/from Hawaii, their piece of the pie will continue to sliver down.
I would think for HA it would be advantageous to get some RJ's or 717's based on the mainland, and create some focus to a few cities that they now serve with end service to some outlieing cities currently unserved, and create some mainland to mainland revenue, along with complimenting their flights to Hawaii with some feed. AQ tried to do it when they tried for the flight from California to Washington DC, but when they were denied the authority, it appears they suddenly stopped looking. I think HA and AQ both need to ask themselves the question.. DOES EVERYTHING NEED TO Originate or End in HAwaii? (in the 80's, Hawaiian Air did have an MD80 based in California--for Charter---Morris Travel out of SLC even used it for charters---I remember one from LAX-TWF, and one from SFO to TWF, as well as SLC-LAX numberous times)
 
ILOVEA340
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting Hawaiian717 (Reply 5):
Because go! flights aren't US Airways Express to begin with?

I am well aware, being that I work for US Airways.

So, can I volunteer to be a pilot for "go! Express Connection" flying Piper Cherokees around?
 
T prop
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Expre

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 17):
Fact of the matter is, HA and AQ could've branded the Mokulele flights a long time ago but opted not to. Tough cookies...don't lambast go! for attempting to expand its appeal

Why would they when they code share with WP? Also Mokulele is a part 135 operator, they're not up to the same standards as part 121, some travel distribution services won't have anything to do with 135 outfits.
 
HA767
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:39 pm

RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:09 pm

Wow! a little sensative there are you Spencerll??? It's not the competition that HA and AQ are sueing Mesa for, it's the shady business practices of Mr. Johnathan Orinstien that they despise. Maybe if Mr. O would have put a sock in his mouth, none of these lawsuits would have come to where they are now!

Saying that he would drive other interisland carriers out of business is not very intellegent when you have trampled all over confenditiality agreements you and your lawers signed during HA and AQ BK's.

Now he's trying to sue some disgruntaled ex-Mesa Pilot-(now with Aloha) for defamation fo character! HA! He dont need no help doing that to the airline industry!!!


 

[Edited 2007-03-19 08:33:57]
 
kalakaua
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:10 pm

Ryanair has £0.01 fares (excluding taxes and other fees) i.e., "Liverpool" to "Barcelona". I just find it sad that our local airlines say they lose money when fares are below $50.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:14 pm

Quoting T prop (Reply 20):
Quoting 777fan (Reply 17):
Fact of the matter is, HA and AQ could've branded the Mokulele flights a long time ago but opted not to. Tough cookies...don't lambast go! for attempting to expand its appeal

Why would they when they code share with WP? Also Mokulele is a part 135 operator, they're not up to the same standards as part 121, some travel distribution services won't have anything to do with 135 outfits.

HA and AQ are not going to codeshare with an airline that isn't a part 121 carrier. This is why they don't codeshare with Pacific Wings, who is also a part 135 carrier. Also, Mokulele was an air tour/air taxi operation and couldn't fly as a scheduled carrier.

My problem with go! is that they made a barely breakeven market into a money losing market for everyone. They haven't stimulated much of an increase in demand with their $39 fares and have to resort to $29 and even $19 fare sales to try to increase demand and still cannot fill their aircraft.
 
imapilotaz
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 12:48 am

RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 23):
My problem with go! is that they made a barely breakeven market into a money losing market for everyone. They haven't stimulated much of an increase in demand with their $39 fares and have to resort to $29 and even $19 fare sales to try to increase demand and still cannot fill their aircraft.

Funny, looks like HA & AQ cant fill their planes as badly as go! can't. Here's a post from last month I did on yet another go! thread started by people that complain about how go! cant fill a plane compared to the other guys.

Here's the latest data from the DOT T-100. The latest month available is November 2006. Here is the summary for each market that go! serves and compared to AQ & HA:

HNL-OGG
RPMS-- ASMS-- LF
YV 1,796,285-- 2,676,500-- 67.1%
AQ 7,629,742-- 11,930,120-- 64.0%
HA 10,413,504-- 14,199,489-- 73.3%

HNL-LIH
RPMS-- ASMS-- LF
YV 1,382,814-- 2,417,400-- 57.2%
AQ 5,932,014-- 10,384,416-- 57.1%
HA 8,550,048-- 12,131,982-- 70.5%

HNL-KOA:
RPMS-- ASMS-- LF
YV 2,641,120-- 4,046,000-- 65.3%
AQ 9,192,410-- 13,133,520-- 70.0%
HA 11,320,470-- 15,013,380-- 75.4%

HNL-ITO
RPMS-- ASMS-- LF
YV 2,665,008-- 3,866,400-- 68.9%
AQ 9,594,936-- 14,500,080-- 66.2%
HA 11,468,088-- 14,984,352-- 76.5%

Cummalative for 4 markets:
RPMS-- ASMS-- LF
YV 8,485,227-- 13,006,300-- 65.2%
AQ 32,349,102-- 49,948,136-- 64.8%
HA 41,752,110-- 56,329,203-- 74.1%

So by the looks of it, no one is doing great interisland, especially go! and AQ. When you look at the average fare data from DOT O&D Itinerary data for these legs for the 3Q 2006 you have:

OGG-HNL:
HA $40.05
AQ $41.51
YV $40.00

LIH-HNL
HA $38.48
AQ $38.93
YV $38.00

KOA-HNL
HA $46.90
AQ $48.60
YV $48.00

ITO-HNL
HA $46.78
AQ $46.68
YV $47.00
 
HAL
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RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting Kalakaua (Reply 22):
Ryanair has £0.01 fares (excluding taxes and other fees) i.e., "Liverpool" to "Barcelona". I just find it sad that our local airlines say they lose money when fares are below $50.

Do you honestly think Ryanair is making a profit charging .01 Euro? There are huge costs with just pushing an aircraft out of the gate; costs that don't change no matter how short the flight is. These include the aircraft lease, engine lease, gate fees, landing fees, airline staffing (reservation, ground crew, management etc), aircraft insurance, fixed cycle maintenance, and more. Every time the plane pushes out of the gate, those charges ring up against the airline whether the plane is flying across the city or across the continent. Jet aircraft are most efficient at high cruise altitudes, which means that they burn most of their fuel in the takeoff and climb phase, so on short interisland flights those costs are much closer than you'd expect to longer flights. Engines experience the most wear during takeoff and climb, so the more often that happens (i.e. short interisland legs), the more often it has to go through maintenance. As for per/hour costs like crew salary, because it is such a short flight that only adds a dollar or so per seat - not enough to vary the airline's cost much. But add up all the fixed costs, and even an efficient airline like Hawaiian will probably break even at something more than $50 per ticket with normal loads. If you charge $19 per seat you are losing money every time the plane takes off!! Jonathan Orenstein isn't some saint who is trying to 'save' the people of Hawaii from the local predators - he is using questionable business practices (predatory pricing, and allegedly illegal use of private business information) to try and drive otherwise healthy businesses out of the market.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
SpencerII
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:15 pm

RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:57 am

Quoting HA767 (Reply 21):
Wow! a little sensative there are you Spencerll???

No not sensitive. This time it isn't MidPac or Mahalo. The strongest will survive no doubt.
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Hawaii: $19 Fares Back With Launch Of Go!Express

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting Kalakaua (Reply 22):
Ryanair has £0.01 fares (excluding taxes and other fees) i.e., "Liverpool" to "Barcelona". I just find it sad that our local airlines say they lose money when fares are below $50.

Like HAL pointed out, Ryanair isn't making money on those one Austrian Schilling fares. Ryanair's primary revenue stream isn't their ticket sales anyway. They make their money off the commissions they get when you book other services... hotels, cars, parking, travel insurance, and so forth. Then there are the surcharges. I'm not certain about Ryanair, but I know easyJet's phone number for Europeans is the equivalent of the American 900 number, and I would suspect Ryanair does the same. The baggage weight limits are pretty low so it doesn't take as much before you have to pay excess baggage charges.

It's an interesting business model and various elements are seen here in the US (like charging for meals on most airlines, all drinks on Go and Allegiant, a service charge for booking over the phone), but Ryanair and easyJet take it to an extreme. If you're an independent traveler who needs little assistance from others you can get quite the deal. If you need some help or want some extras, you pay just for what you want. But for those used to a full-service airline model, or even a Southwest-style low cost airline, it can seem like you're being nickel and dimed to death and it leaves a negative impression that you didn't get quite the deal you originally thought.

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