yvr1968
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:27 am

AC To Close YXX

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:21 am

Effective 31 May, AC will discontinue service out of Abbotsford.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...d9c-44ab-bf23-a14edf66513a&k=67016
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:42 am

Yeah, just came down the pipeline. Not surprising though, I expected them to pull out much sooner. WS has had the upper hand at YXX for the longest time. It hasn't been too uncommon to see Jazz cancel their flights at the last minute, due to poor load factors. The AC mainline YXX-YYZ flights did particularly bad last year as well.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:22 am

WS has a market lock on YXX and it's probably well deserved as they have consistently served this market for many years. I'm sure they made it very difficult for AC considering the amount of additional capacity that has been added in the last year,especially to YEG. Yields for AC must have been dismal on this route as it's always been a low yield market with lots of price sensitive traffic. I'm sure AC will be much more successful deploying the aircraft on the YYC-YXS and YYC-SEA routes.
 
WestJetForLife
Posts: 704
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:37 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:14 am

I was not surprised when I saw this.

AC has a bigger capacity at YVR than at YXX. YVR is AC's main base of operations for inter-BC and inter-Canadian travel. I think pulling out of Abbotsford (and away from the dominance of WS, which isn't bad at all for YXX) was a smart move made by AC.

Cheers,
Nik
I need a drink.
 
robsawatsky
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:07 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:24 pm

I don't know how reflective of typical loads this is but last year my brother flew AC out of YXX and there were 9 passengers on the flight.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting Robsawatsky (Reply 4):
I don't know how reflective of typical loads this is but last year my brother flew AC out of YXX and there were 9 passengers on the flight.

Does anyone know how WS's loads are out of YXX?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 4948
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Robsawatsky (Reply 4):
I don't know how reflective of typical loads this is but last year my brother flew AC out of YXX and there were 9 passengers on the flight.

I guess it depends on when one flies. I flew a few substitutions YYZ-YXX-YYZ last summer, and all were pretty close to capacity.

The only thing I can think of, is with the low yields dictated by that market, the base was not utilised enough to warrant its existence. While loads probably covered the cost of flights, maybe not the cost of the base itself. WestJet with more flights would have a better chance of breaking even, spreading around the cost.

I have always maintained that every airline has its areas of success. Westjet while successful in some areas, is definitely NOT successful in other areas.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting Robsawatsky (Reply 4):
I don't know how reflective of typical loads this is but last year my brother flew AC out of YXX and there were 9 passengers on the flight.

It isn't uncommon to see that. I've seen a lot of Jazz flights come in and out with only a dozen people or less.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 5):
Does anyone know how WS's loads are out of YXX?

WS is continuing to do well at YXX. The PVR charter has also been a success once again.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
spyderz
Posts: 624
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 8:06 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:56 am

While I suspect not, this could highlight a bigger problem for Air Canada. At the time of Air Canada's regional jet order announcement, Milton claimed that the regional jets could effectively compete against WestJet by providing a lower cost base. One of the specific destinations he highlighted was YXX, claiming that the RJ would be equal to WestJet's 737s. However based on Air Canada leaving, clearly the strategy did not work, at least at YXX. It just begs to wonder, how that strategy is paying off for other destinations?
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting Spyderz (Reply 8):
While I suspect not, this could highlight a bigger problem for Air Canada. At the time of Air Canada's regional jet order announcement, Milton claimed that the regional jets could effectively compete against WestJet by providing a lower cost base. One of the specific destinations he highlighted was YXX, claiming that the RJ would be equal to WestJet's 737s. However based on Air Canada leaving, clearly the strategy did not work, at least at YXX. It just begs to wonder, how that strategy is paying off for other destinations?

Dont let a simple YYC-YXX question a strategy.

Last I checked these are new RJ routes within the last 2-3 years out west
YWG-YXU
YEG-YLW
YEG-YYJ
YEG-YZF
YYC-YZF
YYC-YQQ
YEG-YQR
YEG-YXE
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 7):
It isn't uncommon to see that. I've seen a lot of Jazz flights come in and out with only a dozen people or less.

Typically Jazz carried a lot of connection traffic inbound and outbound over YYC. The flights you mention were specifically the first inbound and last outbound that suffered from less connectivity in YYC. No matter if the loads were good the yield was still poor as the local market is very price sensitive and WS could spread it's cost better even with low yields utilizing a larger aircraft.

Quoting Spyderz (Reply 8):
One of the specific destinations he highlighted was YXX, claiming that the RJ would be equal to WestJet's 737s. However based on Air Canada leaving, clearly the strategy did not work, at least at YXX. It just begs to wonder, how that strategy is paying off for other destinations?

It seems this route was a one that the CEO at the time wanted as he is known as having a passion for scheduling and loved to micro-manage that aspect of the operation. I suspect the route analyst's and yield management folks must have thought better than question the CEO's reasoning.
 
A332
Posts: 1421
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:58 am

RE: AC To Close YXX

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 2):
I'm sure AC will be much more successful deploying the aircraft on the YYC-YXS

I highly doubt it... WestJet could not make this route work when they did the YYJ-YXS-YYC route... CMA couldn't make it work with a tiny Beech 1900... so very unlikely AC will make it work.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
yeginleduc
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:12 pm

RE: AC To Close YXX

Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:06 pm

So I still cant think of a good reason to go 2 x daily YYC-SEA and battle it out with QX/AS with 4 x daily. Is QX/AS really doing that well on the route to make this happen?

I would have liked to see AC start YYC-PDX to really frustrate QX or even try YYC-GEG or YYC-SJC if they have the spare aircraft available. Those routes are not currently served and could be successful as there is a demand but for some reason, I dont see YYC-SEA 6x a day necessary and this will only create bad results for both carriers. The current schedule shows approx 400 seats a day in the summer each way in between the cities and with the many non-stop choices from YYC to the US, it seems AC may be finding themselves heavily discounting to fill seats. Any other thoughts?

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