pilotfox
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Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:19 pm

Here's an interesting Article from the Star Tribune about Northwest Airlines. I know there is always talk about NWA and their DC-9's, but this article mentions that they plane to "phase out one-third of its aging DC-9 planes within two years". Any way, heres the article, http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1060988.html
 
centrair
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:02 pm

Get this out quickly...NW getting rid of the DC-9s? Never!

What is really the interesting parts are...

Quote:
Northwest intends to shrink its mainline fleet -- aircraft used for domestic and international flying and seating 100 or more people -- from 375 planes in 2006 to 337 in 2008. Northwest also plans to substantially increase its fleet of regional planes, which seat up to 76 passengers -- from 226 planes in 2006 to 262 in 2008.[quote]

More work for Mesaba, Pinnacle and Compass.

[quote]The airline is projecting that aircraft used solely for overseas flights will grow from 61 this year to 74 by 2011.

That is only 13 planes... but by then there will be an increase of 18 aircraft. Maybe the 742s are going.
More crews training to do international routes? I think someone mentioned in another thread about Jr staff now gettng more chances to work WBC.

Quote:
In a bankruptcy court filing, Northwest said its international flight capacity is expected to grow an average of 4.3 percent a year between this year and 2010. Meanwhile, domestic flying is projected to decline by an average of 2.7 percent a year.

Flying done by regional affiliates is expected to mushroom by 16.9 percent a year, Northwest said.

That is a huge increase in regional flying. Are other carriers seeing this kind of increase?
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:27 pm

United has been doing this for what seems like years now. During bankruptcy, United reduced its fleet quite a bit and had its regional United Express contractors pick up the routes. Though some of these routes could certainly use larger aircraft at times, its seems more cost effective to fill an RJ consistently rather than a 737 occasionally. Plus they've been able to get rid of expensive union labor at many stations and replace them with the contractors' employees....Skywest, Mesa, Air Wisconsin (operations only), etc.
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Pu752
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:38 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 2):
United has been doing this for what seems like years now. During bankruptcy, United reduced its fleet quite a bit and had its regional United Express contractors pick up the routes. Though some of these routes could certainly use larger aircraft at times, its seems more cost effective to fill an RJ consistently rather than a 737 occasionally. Plus they've been able to get rid of expensive union labor at many stations and replace them with the contractors' employees....Skywest, Mesa, Air Wisconsin (operations only), etc.

Remeber at IAD, ACA was flying thos Bae and CRJs now they fly ERJs !
 
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RedTailDTW
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:56 pm

That is a big jump in regional flights indeed!



Mason

[Edited 2007-03-17 10:57:41]
Airlines Flown: AA, CO, HP, MQ, NW, RP, UA, US, WN, YX / Aircraft Flown: 737-200/300/700/800, 757-200/300, 777-200, A319/A320/A321, DC-9-30/50, DC-10-40, ERJ 140/145, E170, MD80/83/90
 
Lexy
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 2):
its seems more cost effective to fill an RJ consistently rather than a 737 occasionally

Here at BNA, that's the case and I just don't believe that for one second. Eg. CO flies around 17 flights a day from here all on E145's and E135's. That is just stupid. Especially when you have a mainline 737 in the system that comes as close as MEM on the routing system on a daily basis. That is just laziness on the part of the carrier to provide a positive, and enjoyable, experience for the paying customer. To this day, I will not fly Continental, United, and even some Northwest flights out of Nashville due to their reliance on smaller, less comfortable, aircraft. Call me stupid, call me an idiot, but all three of them flew mainlines into here on an almost regular basis up until two years ago. Now, with the exception of Northwest which is dwindling fast as well, you are lucky to even get a mainline diversion here. What a joke. I'm glad we have Southwest and Frontier to cover the majority of places a Legacy flies from BNA to. That assures, at the very least, a somewhat confortable flight on a mainline jet. I look at it like this, BNA is capable of mainline flights on all three of these carriers named above. If we are no better than some tiny town out station, then give your gate space up and hit the road. I am sure we could find someone to fill your flights and space up.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
tinpusher007
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting PU752 (Reply 3):
Remeber at IAD, ACA was flying thos Bae and CRJs now they fly ERJs !

ACA does not fly ERJ's now or anything else for that matter. They became Independence Air and ultimately went out of business. Interestingly enough, Compass then purchased their operating certificate.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
flyorski
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:55 pm

Very interesting, NO MORE NW DC-9s!!!!! Of course they will only be replacing one-third of them. I bet when they retire the barbie jets, the other DC-9s will still be flying  Wink
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
nitrohelper
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional J

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:20 pm

In one of the other DC -9 threads I guessed 2012 for the end of an era. The article says 75 still flying in 2011, so maybe my new guess is 2015 for the answer to the famous A-net question.
"when will NW retire the DC-9s ? "  scratchchin 
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:34 pm

Quoting Lexy (Reply 10):
I can see your point, but that is describing two types of spending habits that have nothing really in common.

I was never one for analogies.  Wink
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gregarious119
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional J

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:15 pm

Quoting Lexy (Reply 5):
CO flies around 17 flights a day from here all on E145's and E135's. That is just stupid. Especially when you have a mainline 737 in the system that comes as close as MEM on the routing system on a daily basis. That is just laziness on the part of the carrier to provide a positive, and enjoyable, experience for the paying customer.

While I can understand your perspective (as I don't much love the RJ's either), it's not too stupid of a concept from the airlines perspective.

Imagine the needs of a heavily traveled leisure market. People traveling there don't particularly care whether their flight leaves at 10am or 2pm or 5pm...they just want to go lay on the beach for a week. So send 3 737's, fill the seats, and you're using your aircraft well.

Now...take a place that is a heavy business market. If you're catering to corporate execs who have a meeting at 10 and need to be back by 3, it makes sense to have 17 flights a day staggered an hour apart. Although I'm sure any exec would love to have a nice big first class seat - lots of frequency gives them better use of their time and they're more likely to fly you again.

Bear in mind - i know these are gross generalities, however, they were made just to show the case why in some cases, more frequency on smaller jets can be better than the same capacity spread out over fewer (albeit larger) flights.

G

[Edited 2007-03-17 14:45:37]
 
af773atmsp
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:34 pm

It also says NW will be doing international expansion by 2008 when NW gets their first 787. MSP-CDG-MSP! MSP-FRA-MSP! MSP-HKG-MSP! MSP-KIX-MSPBig grin  bigthumbsup 
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bobnwa
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:12 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 11):
It also says NW will be doing international expansion by 2008 when NW gets their first 787. MSP-CDG-MSP! MSP-FRA-MSP! MSP-HKG-MSP! MSP-KIX-MSP!

I would wager that not one of those markets will be flown in 2008.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:14 pm

There will always be a need for a 100 seater in the NWA route structure. That is where the mystery lies... what will they buy/lease to replace the remaining DC9s? My guess is EMB195s flown at the mainline level. The scope prevents any airlink from totally replacing the domestic operatio, let alone flying anything more than 100 seats. It seems that NWA has identifed the needs for about 75 or less 100 seat jets, down from the nearly 100+ we see today.


AZJ
 
af773atmsp
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:33 pm

My best guess is NW will replace the DC-9s with A319s/320s, and maybe order the E195 to replace the DC-9-30. I'm also wondering if NW will replace the Saab 340s.
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
BUFjets
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:46 pm

Does anybody know if any of the DC-9's to be retired in the next year or two are the DC-9-50's? They are "newer" than the DC-9-30's, but maybe they are retiring based on when D checks are needed.

Slightly off topic, but... are all the engines on the DC-9-30's the same? Are they interchangeable with any DC-9-30 in the fleet?

Thanks.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:47 pm

The old days of NWA are over, therefore we have to forget about the replacement plans for the fleet as we saw it before ch11. It would be innacurate to simply think of a replacement for the DC9-30/40/50 fleets on a one for one basis. Same goes for the 742 fleet. It seems that the fleet requirement is shifting to smaller a/c worldwide therefore the fleet plan going forward has shifted. NWA traditionally has had a much larger domestic mainline operation than all the others, who relied heavily on RJs. NWA was late to the party with this respect, but pad off with the DC9s. Without the DC9s the costs to operate the "same" domestic fleet would be out of control. So, we see the push for large RJs and less mainline a/c.

I think it would be pretty safe to say the DC9-50s would be replaced by the 319. That is only however, NWA still finds the need to maintain a fleet of roughly 100 frames (combined 319s and D95 today). If they think they'll only need to operate a fleet of roughly 70, 125 seat a/c, there is no replacement required. The same goes for the 100 seat market. If the new business model requires roughly 75 frames, then all will likely be replaced by a new type. If they identify the need for only 50, then only 50 will be replaced and the remainder will shift to the 76 seat large RJ to be operated at airlink.

NWA has always matched capasity to demand pretty well, while also maximizing revenues and attempting to be profitable. Operating widebodies in the domestic system does not fit the business model for a profitable operation. Even though it could be filled, this is the reason you don't see a 330 flying MSP-SEA. Delta finally realized that flying 767s from ATL-JAX is probably not the brightest idea, even though they could be full. Delta has always tried to be EVERYONES airline and it doesn't work. NWA has always tried to serve the markets that they do best... midwest, asia and AMS with KLM. The future of NWA is likely to be the same, but on a scale that ensures profitability.

As for the saabs... there have been rumblings at XJ regarding this. Apparently the new agreements with the leasing companies have some of the leases starting to expire in 5 years time. The only real solution to serve the same markets with the same capacity would be the bombardier Q family, or the ATR 42. Since for some reason the company wanted a Q400 pay rate, I would think the logical solution would be the Q family. The only stumbling block would be the costs of operating the dash again. The dash was abandoned in the 90s for the saab because they could get more than 1 saab, for the price of ONE dash. But with the new efficiencies the company has found in its fake bankruptcy, perhaps they kind find a way to operate the dashes better than they could in the past. So... for saab replacement, my vote goes to a mix of the Q family products by bombardier.

AZJ

[Edited 2007-03-17 15:57:16]
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:49 pm

Wow... and to think that another thread was talking about increased traffic and crowding at airports. That's what we need, more RJs!  Yeah sure
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KingAir200
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional J

Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting Pilotfox (Thread starter):
"phase out one-third of its aging DC-9 planes within two years".

Not being an insider, I don't know that much about this, but I feel bad for everyone on the DC-9, especially the bottom folks. There's gonna be some movin' on the position lists. To where, I wonder.

[Edited 2007-03-17 17:44:43]
 
azjubilee
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:20 am

If the fleet has net growth, nobody has to worry about anything. Plus, if the net growth is in lager equipment, that means more pay and a better lifestyle. I"m sure the DC9 drivers who bounce around the midwest won't be so unhappy they'll get to bid the airbus or 757 sooner than later. If there is a net decrease in planes, then there is a problem. Only the problem has been partially solved by the creation of Compass...


AZJ
 
NWAROOSTER
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
That is only 13 planes... but by then there will be an increase of 18 aircraft. Maybe the 742s are going.

Northwest intends to replace all Boeing 747-200s. They probably will be with new Boeing 787s.
The new larger regional jets, along with the A319/A320will replace the DC-9s.
The 747-400s Northwest has will continue as passenger jets. However, the 400s that Northwest operates will be converted into BCFs as the airline has to retire the 747-200Fs it has. Will they buy new 747 freighters with a nose door? Good question.
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
bobnwa
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 20):
The 747-400s Northwest has will continue as passenger jets. However, the 400s that Northwest operates will be converted into BCFs as the airline has to retire the 747-200Fs it has.

Isn't this a contradiction? They can't be both passenger and freighters.
 
stirling
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 14):
My best guess is NW will replace the DC-9s with A319s/320s

Only way to completely replace the DC9 fleet with the A320 family would be for them to acquire A318s.
And that is not one of the possible scenarios.....the A318 and 737-600 are desperate attempts to recapture the days when running a mainline jet with 100 passengers, at 125,000 to 150,000 pounds made some amount of sense. The EMB-195 does almost the same thing, but with 30,000 to 50,000 pounds less. (Depending on what it is being compared to.)

With Northwest, the DC-9-30 seats 100 and the -40 seats 110....I don't really see NW putting an A318 with 124 seats onto a route that was once served by aircraft of 100 and 110 seats.
Enter the E190 and E195.....or the CRJ-900/1000....much better replacements. But they are going to have a hornets nest with the pilots....who say they will be 1 for 1 mainline replacements, while management is going to say they are regional jets.
A battle of semantics.if you ask me....desperate times: desperate measures.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 16):
The old days of NWA are over

Ain't that the truth. The entire way of thinking in running an airline is being challenged. Airlines are fighting to stay in business, employees fighting to keep their families fed....

The employees have a valid point, 100 seats used to mean mainline, now in the middle of the game the rules are being changed....now management says 100 seats, 110 seats is: Regional, and with it, less money.

From a non-industry perspective, it looks to me that the airlines are using the shift in manufacturers to perpetuate a "Fairy Tale" ....."Well, Boys, Bombardier and Embraer make regional jets, so anything they produce that we will fly, has to be at the regional pay-scale!"
Even though the boys at "B" and "E" are assuming the manufacturing position once held by McDonnell-Douglas, and BAe.....the airlines (NW) are still trying to ram this down the employees throat; "If you fly anything made by Embraer or Bombardier, it is not worth as much as what the Airbus and few Boeing drivers earn."
In their attempt at changing the plot of the story for their benefit, NW has given us Compass. Well. That makes everything better.

It's just the way I see it....my perception of a very complicated situation with no real clear solution no matter how much the A.Net CEOs would like to have us believe.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 16):
I think it would be pretty safe to say the DC9-50s would be replaced by the 319.

At a difference of only one seat that would seem the safe bet.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 16):
NWA has always matched capasity to demand pretty well, while also maximizing revenues and attempting to be profitable. Operating widebodies in the domestic system does not fit the business model for a profitable operation. Even though it could be filled, this is the reason you don't see a 330 flying MSP-SEA.

QANTAS found this out in trying to fly the 330 domestically....it just didn't work, 1700nm SYD-PER just didn't work out, no matter what the brochure said.
The A330 series was supposed to have been the high-tech replacement for the A300 that could make a profit on runs of less than 2500nm....even down to 750nm-1000nm.
Just look at Eastern and how they used their A300 fleet up and down the East Coast....the typical stage length being 500nm (MIA-ATL), up to a max of 1400nm (SJU-JFK/PHL), and as short as 200nm (SDQ-SJU). The A330 is a fine airplane, but no where as versatile as the A300.
Air Inter of France was an even better example, the A300 performed handsomely, in a country where no route is longer than 500nm....I wish I had some empirical evidence to back this up, alas, I only have anecdotal information from ex-Air Inter employees that did not have much good to say about the A330 they received. ORY-TLS a popular route for the A330-300, while nice from the customers point of view, was too much aircraft for a 308nm route.

This fact has not escaped Northwest.
Once upon a time, Northwest would send up to 7 DC-10s a day MSP-ORD, 290nm, exactly half of the 14 daily flights between the two cities. Today, they operate only 10 flights a day!
7 DC-9 variants, 2 A320s, and 1 A319.
Granted, there is a little more competition on the route, but not so much that their capacity has been cut by almost 60%?

It would have seemed logical, a natural progression if you will, to replace those 7 DC-10s with A330-300s they have, or -200s, maybe even some 757-300s, but no, another troubling incident in how the world of aviation as we know it, is changing before our eyes. It would not surprise me in the least to one day see E190/E195s or CRJ-1000s dominate on the route...or whatever the fleet at NW looks like in 10 years.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 5):
laziness on the part of the carrier to provide a positive, and enjoyable, experience for the paying customer.

I am afraid you are just going to have to get used to it, the situation, for all airlines, is not going to get better.

Within 10 years the predominant type in the NW fleet is going to be a mix of the CRJ-700s, CRJ-900s, maybe some -1000s, and the E190/E195 serving the majority of their domestic flights, with the obvious exceptions of course. The smaller jets are becoming the baseline equipment, while a few years ago that position was held by aircraft of the 737/MD80/320 variety, and the mainline fleet went up from there.
Not anymore.
The 737 family and A320s are assuming the position the widebodies held not even 15 years ago.....when flying a "Big" aircraft to your domestic destination meant an L-1011, DC-10, 767, or in some limited cases even a 747. From here on out, flying a "Big" aircraft from here on out will mean a 737-900 or A321. (Not to veer off topic too much, but with this paradigm shift happening before our eyes, where is the case for the A380? Or even 747-8i? Except for a few international carriers?)

Southwest will remain the anomaly, and those that will try and emulate their success, but will be destined to failure for the simple reason of not having the economy of scale that makes having a "Large-Jet" fleet possible.

The world is changing, we can piss and moan ad nauseum, but the days of big jets are over. Get used to the new products coming out of Canada and Brasil.....otherwise stay home. Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh.
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SESGDL
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:28 am

I'm very disappointed with this move by NW. It's look like this will cut overall capacity in their system, further shrinking MSP, DTW, and MEM. When will airlines (legacy carriers besides CO) start to grow again?

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):

I would wager that not one of those markets will be flown in 2008.

Why? It's only a matter of time before MSP-CDG is started, the others, however, are a bit of a stretch.

Jeremy
 
planemaker
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 23):
When will airlines (legacy carriers besides CO) start to grow again?

When the LCC's stop growing.  Smile
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:32 am

It will be interesting to see what happens in Lansing; they fly a mix of DC-9's and regionals. I would love to see the EMB series in Lansing.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 16):
The only real solution to serve the same markets with the same capacity would be the bombardier Q family, or the ATR 42.

Agreed. Would NW order the Dash 8-300 or 400? If they do, this marks the second time they flew the type. NW Airlink flew the 100 version. Also, both planes, the 42 and Dash 8 have been in production for a long time, but the Dash may have a lead.

MCOflyer
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B707Stu
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:58 am

A friend is a trainer for NW and at a recent MSP meeting was advised no further major maintenance will be given to the DC9's. As they come up for major checks they will be retired. The end is truly insight. NW is excited about the 100 seat EMB aircraft.
 
m404
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:23 am

Has anyone heard about Compass' plans for ground handling? Are they going have their own agents? When they operate from a airport that still has Mainline employees will they be allowed to work them? Has any of the unions even asked this? Can Compass replace mainline service and cause the ground employees to be fuloughed? Do you think this was part of the intent all along? (I know - Duh)
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
burnsie28
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 27):
A friend is a trainer for NW and at a recent MSP meeting was advised no further major maintenance will be given to the DC9's. As they come up for major checks they will be retired

WRONG, NW will still have 75 DC-9's in service in 2011. Here are the details.

10 A319's will be dropped this year due to unfavorable lease cost compared to the DC-9-40/50 operating costs (yes thats right the DC-9 is cheaper to operate) However, if NW is awarded a NBA contract they will keep 6-7 for charter services (which likely means they will do like they used to with the 727's in a BBJ style interior)

DC-9's, currently NW is operating about 101 with 7 spares, by the end of 2008 the DC-9 fleet will be down to 75 with 4 spares. Some aircraft being parked have additional airframe life and could come back if “the need arises”.

Here are the current fleet projections:
Aircraft 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
744/744F 16 16 16 16 16 16
747-200 3 1 0 0 0 0
747-200F 14 12 12 8 8 8
B-787 0 0 8 12 13 18
A330 24 32 32 32 32 32
DC-10 2 0 0 0 0 0
757-300 16 16 16 16 16 16
757-200 55 55 55 55 55 55
A320 73 73 73 73 73 73
A319 66 57 47 47 47 47
DC-9 115 93 78 75 75 75
S340 65 49 49 49 49 49
CRJ2 126 126 141 141 141 141
RJ85 35 0 0 0 0 0
CRJ9 0 13 36 36 36 36
E175 0 11 36 36 36 36

Just go's to show that management has their head up their you know whats with such modest plane planning. The DC-9 replacement is supposidly their top priority.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 11):
It also says NW will be doing international expansion by 2008 when NW gets their first 787. MSP-CDG-MSP! MSP-FRA-MSP! MSP-HKG-MSP! MSP-KIX-MSP!

I would wager that not one of those markets will be flown in 2008.

Bob, you don't think MSP-CDG-MSP will happen by 2008... everyone seems pretty sure that one is inevitable, do you know something we don't?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
StearmanNut
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:55 am

So that explains the sudden appearance of the red NWA tails at Marana Pinal Airpark (KMJZ). Noticed that this morning.
If wishes were horses, a Tail Dragger I would fly...
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:54 am

So, If I read this right.... NWA will be flying the ERJ-170's and the CRJ-700 (which will go to Mesaba) right? Now are they going to stop flying into some cities he in DTW and cut staff? Right now they need to be competeing against BA, AF, LH. and opening up more overseas flights with something other then the B757-200ER's...

Chuck
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 22):
management says 100 seats, 110 seats is: Regional

Actually, with US keeping the 99-seat E190 as a mainline jet, the scope creep seems to have been stopped at that line for now.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:31 pm

Quoting BUFjets (Reply 15):
Slightly off topic, but... are all the engines on the DC-9-30's the same? Are they interchangeable with any DC-9-30 in the fleet?

They vary form aircraft to aircraft.They're all have JT8D's but some have the doggish -7A/B's which usually are weight-restricting in high heat, wet runways etc. The DC9-50's are standardised with the -17's while the D94's have the -11's on them. The DC9-30's are where they're most diverse. Some have the -7's, -9/A's, -11's all the way up to the -15's. The DC9-30's with the -15's are like rockets on a fair day, and can also carry heavier loads in intense conditions. Some have different engines on either side. I've seen D9S's with a -7A on one side and a -9 on the other. That, I believe is the limit. You couldn't put a -7 and -11 0r -15. You can only go one higher, a 7 and a 9, a 9 and an 11, or an 11 and a 15. You con't mix a -7 with a -15 or -11 engine.
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NW748i
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:12 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
I would wager that not one of those markets will be flown in 2008.

I'd wager on your side. I'm still unconvinced that the 787-8 will bring all this traffic to MSP. DTW will be getting yet another runway and the latest technology (ADS-B, ITWS, ASDE-X, etc) that will make it much more cost effective as a, well, 'World Gateway...' Perhaps years down the line some of these routes will happen, but I think NW will use most of them for new destinations out of DTW. Perhaps a flight to China on a 787, but I agree with Bob, for the most part.

Just curious, but what's your reasoning behind this?
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bobnwa
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting NW748i (Reply 35):
I'd wager on your side. I'm still unconvinced that the 787-8 will bring all this traffic to MSP. DTW will be getting yet another runway and the latest technology (ADS-B, ITWS, ASDE-X, etc) that will make it much more cost effective as a, well, 'World Gateway...' Perhaps years down the line some of these routes will happen, but I think NW will use most of them for new destinations out of DTW. Perhaps a flight to China on a 787, but I agree with Bob, for the most part.

Just curious, but what's your reasoning behind this?

My reasoning is as follows. Other than JFK-NRT, the initial International expansion will take place out of DTW, with non-stops to Asian cities and a few European destinations. MSP will be on the back burner. MSP-CDG is a remote possibility, but there is no great need for it, with DTW-CDG service.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:21 pm

This article really doesn't say anything we didn't already know. NW has been gradually retired DC-9's since the late 90's, however the rate has accelerated in recent years. Its no surprise that the CR9's & E175s were going to replace a portion of the DC-9 fleet.

Don't expect major changes to the domestic route structure cities aren't going to be dropped, frequencies aren't going to be dropped either. Net-net, everything pretty much comes out equal to where they are today. Read the fleet plan posted by Burnsie. The net growth is in widebody aircraft, with the balance of the A330 order to be delivered and the 787's.

As AZJ and other say, the mystery still remains in what will replace and the timeframe for replacement of the remaining 75 DC-9's. As said, NW is looking to get out of some of the A319 leases which are costly and not needed to fly on shorter routes that can easily be flown with a DC-9-50 than has zero ownership costs.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 36):
MSP-CDG is a remote possibility

As said, this is an A330 route if it happens, not a 787.

Quoting NW748i (Reply 35):
DTW will be getting yet another runway and the latest technology (ADS-B, ITWS, ASDE-X, etc) that will make it much more cost effective as a, well, 'World Gateway...'

DTW isn't getting a new runway, but they are rehabing 3R/21L, plus some navigational upgrades to the others. DTW has more than ample all-weather airfield capacity, something at a place like ORD would die for.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:55 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 37):
DTW isn't getting a new runway, but they are rehabing 3R/21L, plus some navigational upgrades to the others. DTW has more than ample all-weather airfield capacity, something at a place like ORD would die for.

I was wondering about this. Where would they put a new one? They already have 6 runways with 4 being parallel and the 2 crosswind runways can handle the load in strong NW winds. I don't think DTW would need to think of a new runway for 25 years. I think they have a really good set up as it is now and it's only going to get better. Do you know if they are RNAV departures and arrivals? Are they also adding CAT IIIc approaches? (I can't remember if they have them now).

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Jano
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:15 am

Northwest Enhances Hawaii Schedule Features Airbus A330

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070319/20070319005886.html?.v=1

TOKYO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Northwest Airlines today announced that it will introduce its Airbus A330 wide-body aircraft between Tokyo and Honolulu, Saipan and Guam, and between Honolulu and Osaka starting this summer.
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TR1
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting Jano (Reply 39):
Northwest Enhances Hawaii Schedule Features Airbus A330

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070319/20070319005886.html?.v=1

TOKYO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Northwest Airlines today announced that it will introduce its Airbus A330 wide-body aircraft between Tokyo and Honolulu, Saipan and Guam, and between Honolulu and Osaka starting this summer.

I know it has been discussed before, but with this news would a "beach market" (with a smaller WBC cabin) A330-300 now be in the works? To me it would be a good replacement for the high-density configured 747-200s.
 
stirling
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting Jano (Reply 39):
TOKYO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Northwest Airlines today announced that it will introduce its Airbus A330 wide-body aircraft between Tokyo and Honolulu, Saipan and Guam, and between Honolulu and Osaka starting this summer.

It doesn't say whether they will be -200 or -300......is it safe to assume these routes will be the -300?

My reasoning is the current capacity of the 742s in the fleet is 353 (12/55/286) and 403 (24/41/338)......which in my view is a significant difference from the 243 and 298 that the 332 and 333 have. Will frequencies change to compensate for the shortfall?
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Jano
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 41):
It doesn't say whether they will be -200 or -300......is it safe to assume these routes will be the -300?

It's gotta be -300. Per http://ir.nwa.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=111021&p=irol-fleet they have 10 still to be delivered. For -200 it is 2 still to be delivered.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:51 am

They are indeed A330-300's, per nwa.com
While there will be somewhat of a reduction of seats in certain markets, there will be an increase on the NRT-HNL route. With 2 744's & an A333 departing all within an hour of each other. Thus, NW is shuffling the 744's off of NRT-KIX to make up for capacity in the NRT-HNL market. Traditionally, NRT-KIX had been a DC-10 route until mid-2006 when it switched to a 744. So NRT-KIX is going back to its normal capacity.

A330's will be bridged in through HNL for intra-Asia flying with the MSP-HNL flight.


NRT-GUM: 742, 757 -> 744, 757 (mid-Aug through 09/27/07 -> A333, 757 09/28/07
NRT-SPN: 742, 757 -> A333, 757 09/02/07
NRT-HNL: 744,742 (2 daily) -> 07/01/07 744, 744, A333
KIX-HNL: 744 -> A333 07/01/07

Thus, last passenger 747-200 flight, based on my research:
September 1, 2007
NW 75 SPN-NRT Dep: 4:55pm Arr: 7:30pm
 
NW748i
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 37):

DTW isn't getting a new runway, but they are rehabing 3R/21L,



Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 38):
I was wondering about this. Where would they put a new one?

Indeed they will be getting a new runway. This was first publically mentioned a few months back. Some of those who attended the series of meeting confirmed it back then: Local Input At DTW (by Hjulicher Dec 13 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Last week Marion Blakey mentioned that DTW will soon reach its pre-9/11 high for commercial ops. From what I hear at work, a new runway will be coming in a few years. Exactly how soon (and it won't be terribly soon) depends on the situation with AIP grants and the Reauth getting through Congress.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:23 am

Well, call it what you want, but DTW is not getting a new runway in the forseeable future. You won't see an new runway at DTW for at least 15-20 years. With no plans, no timeline, and nothing other than some "what if" scenarios, there is zero evidence of a new runway being built. At least not a factor in any of the aircraft and route decisions mentioned in this thread.

Just don't want to confuse people thinking that DTW is getting a new runway in the next few years, they aren't. Plus anything east of Middlebelt would require a lot of property acquistion, etc. Plus the whole approval process, environmental impact, lawsuits from surrounding NIMBY's etc, etc. etc.
 
VC10DC10
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional J

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 29):


You have the number of 742Fs declining from 14 to 8 without a corresponding increase in any other type of heavy freighter. What exactly did you mean?

It would seem to make sense to me if NW were to convert any of the pax 742s that are "good candidates" for freighters and retire any excessively old 742Fs rather than operate a mixed freighter fleet. Having a smaller number of 742Fs (especially without pax 742s) doesn't make sense to me because they will still need to have (and train) 3-man crews (okay, 3-person crews, not to offend anyone) and maintain spares for a smaller fleet of aging aircraft. The ideal situation would probably be to replace them all with 748Fs, but that certainly isn't in the cards right now.

[Edited 2007-03-19 21:45:37]
 
mrocktor
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RE: Northwest Plans To Shift Traffic To Regional Jets

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:43 am

And they have 100 purchase rights on E190/195. Interesting  Cool