oneskyjet
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JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:42 am

There's been an awful ot of JetBlue bashing lately on this forum that deserves some factual update. According to FlightAware this morning, New York City departures between midnight and 11:30am this morning were as follows:


Airline…………..EWR …..JFK…..LGA……Total
JetBlue…………….3………48…….3………..54
American………….4……….9……..9………..22
USAirways………..1……….0……..9………..10
Delta………….……0……….4……..5…………9
Continental………..0……….0……..3…………3


All airlines operating in and out of the Northeast had their operations severely impacted by yesterday's storm yet B6's cancellations continue to be the focus of negative attention both on this board and in the media at large.

Based on today's operations in and out of all three major airports it seems to me that JetBlue has managed to recover substantially more intact than most of the competition. Notably, as of 11:30am EST B6 was operating close to a normal operation out of all 3 NYC airports. In comparison, Continental had yet to operate a single flight out of their EWR hub.

The facts show that JetBlue has made significant steps in improving their operational reliability since last month's Valentine's Day storm. In addition they are the first and only airline to put their money where therir mouth is with a passenger "Bill of Rights".
 
corey07850
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:02 am

Real Name: Trey Urbahn

"JetBlue Appoints Trey Urbahn to Executive Vice President, Chief Revenue Officer

NEW YORK, Nov. 14, 2006 (PRIMEZONE) -- JetBlue Airways (Nasdaq:JBLU) today announces the appointment of Trey Urbahn to the position of Executive Vice President, Chief Revenue Officer, effective immediately. Mr. Urbahn will be responsible for the low-fare airline's Revenue Management, Route Planning, Marketing and Sales performance, and will report to JetBlue CEO David Neeleman. "


Biased much?
 
LAXintl
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:02 am

I dont see what relationship of B6 launching 54 flights over CO's 3 (if your stats are right) have anything to do with showing one airline is better over the other.

The fact is that the major airlines tend to pull the trigger for good during major weather events and shut down ops for a sizable time frame. Operations then ramp up at the designated time afterwards, unlike Jetblue that previously had decided to muddle thru.

Just because B6 decided to start things a bit earlier then its industry peers this time does certainly not make them geniuses. If anything they took a bigger risk operationally for both the passenger and getting their staff to work in potential poor weather conditions.

As far as the media attention on Jetblue, its absolutely well deserved. After all who had a operational melt down last month? The news media obviously want to see if such a fiasco will repeat itself. Why go report on Southwest Airlines at ISP, when Jetblue is still fresh in peoples minds. After all its not like Jetblue is some small obscure airline, its one of the largest operations in NYC, and a publicity limelight hog at that. If they cant stand the heat in the kitchen better get out.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
airtran737
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting OneSkyJet (Thread starter):
There's been an awful ot of JetBlue bashing lately on this forum that deserves some factual update. According to FlightAware this morning, New York City departures between midnight and 11:30am this morning were as follows:


Airline..............EWR .....JFK.....LGA......Total
JetBlue................3.........48.......3...........54
American.............4..........9........9...........22
USAirways...........1..........0........9...........10
Delta...................0..........4........5............9
Continental...........0..........0........3............3


All airlines operating in and out of the Northeast had their operations severely impacted by yesterday's storm yet B6's cancellations continue to be the focus of negative attention both on this board and in the media at large.

Based on today's operations in and out of all three major airports it seems to me that JetBlue has managed to recover substantially more intact than most of the competition. Notably, as of 11:30am EST B6 was operating close to a normal operation out of all 3 NYC airports. In comparison, Continental had yet to operate a single flight out of their EWR hub.

The facts show that JetBlue has made significant steps in improving their operational reliability since last month's Valentine's Day storm. In addition they are the first and only airline to put their money where therir mouth is with a passenger "Bill of Rights".

Those other airlines also have more than one hub, and ticketing agreements with other airlines so that they can easily re-route distressed passengers. jetBlue deserved every bit of crap that they got for their SNAFU last month. B6 also tries to avoid canceling their flights. They would rather tack on an eight hour delay rather than cancel the flight. Gotta get that DOT Completion factor.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
xpfg
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:37 am

So OneSkyJet,
You are the Exec VP of B6? No bashing, just curious.  Smile I have nothing against B6!
 
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STT757
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:42 am

MSNBC was bashing B6 over their latest storm cancelations, as was CNN who had a producer stuck on a flight to PBI for three hours before taking off.

I would say the B6 media relationship is no longer "warm".
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
EMBQA
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
I dont see what relationship of B6 launching 54 flights over CO's 3

I take the point as everyone was so fast to jump on jetBlue on Thursday when they started CX'ng flights, that now they are the first and fastest to recover.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
oneskyjet
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:12 am

NEW YORK, Nov. 14, 2006 (PRIMEZONE) -- JetBlue Airways (Nasdaq:JBLU) today announces the appointment of Trey Urbahn to the position of Executive Vice President, Chief Revenue Officer, effective immediately. Mr. Urbahn will be responsible for the low-fare airline's Revenue Management, Route Planning, Marketing and Sales performance, and will report to JetBlue CEO David Neeleman. "


Biased much?


The facts speak for themselves, my friend.

Since you've "outed me" in this thread, let me make a few biased observations:

JetBlue is different. Perhaps that's why we are held to a higher standard. Our crewmembers have built a great airline and are proud it, as by the way, am I. Last month, we let our customers down. In addition to apologizing and compensating those who we inconvenienced, we made a commitment not to let it happen again. We articulated this commitment externally in our customer Bill of Rights. Internally, we identified areas where we made mistakes and have taken substantive steps to correct them. I may be biased, but I believe in giving credit where credit is due: Thanks to the dedication and hard work of our crewmembers, we managed to meet and overcome a significant weather event yesterday. In doing so, we've proved to our customers and to ourselves that we're different because we're better.

sincerely,

Trey Urbahn
JetBlue Airways
 
dutchjet
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting OneSkyJet (Thread starter):
Notably, as of 11:30am EST B6 was operating close to a normal operation out of all 3 NYC airports. In comparison, Continental had yet to operate a single flight out of their EWR hub.

How we love twisting stats and figures........CO's cancelled all ops at EWR until 1200 noon (except the Tokyo flight which departed at 1203, about an hour late) so its very convenient to use figure until 1130 AM. Too much blue juice? And why bother to take into account that CO is at EWR while JetBlue is at JFK....just maybe the conditions are different at the two airports? Who cares about details?

JetBlue should be given credit for acting responsibly this time around and revising their operating procedures during storms and other such events......they screwed up big time last month and seemed to have addressed the problem. But how does criticizing CO make any of this better?
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:23 am

So OneSkyJet,

I'm laughing that you came here to try and defend your honor... Pretty comical I might say.

But anyway, it's good you did get some flights out today. Like others have said, you really had no option but to get them out. JetBlue would be history if they screwed up on the level they did last storm. And clearly, the other airlines had many more options, for instance Delta ran their JFK-BOM flight straight from ATL and connected their passengers through ATL thus avoiding cancellations. JetBlue doesnt' have the luxury of several hubs like DL, CO, AA and UA.

How was the on time record for you?
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
SpencerII
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:25 am

AT least Continental had options to re-route passengers. Originating & going to areas un-affected by the storm...
O & D passengers into EWR were adversely effected, but Im' sure the Continental REservations centers, (not operating out of Moms basement) worked overtime to reaccomodate all they could thorugh IAH, and using other airlines.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting OneSkyJet (Reply 7):
JetBlue is different. Perhaps that's why we are held to a higher standard. Our crewmembers have built a great airline and are proud it, as by the way, am I. Last month, we let our customers down. In addition to apologizing and compensating those who we inconvenienced, we made a commitment not to let it happen again. We articulated this commitment externally in our customer Bill of Rights. Internally, we identified areas where we made mistakes and have taken substantive steps to correct them. I may be biased, but I believe in giving credit where credit is due: Thanks to the dedication and hard work of our crewmembers, we managed to meet and overcome a significant weather event yesterday. In doing so, we've proved to our customers and to ourselves that we're different because we're better.

sincerely,

Trey Urbahn
JetBlue Airways

Trey Urbahn,
Pretty balls-out statements for someone who works for jetBlue. Yes, some of your crewmembers may be hard working, and some customers may find your airline to be better for them.

However, to generalize and make blanket statements that you are, per your quote above better is kind of ridiculous, wouldn't you agree? Every airline through history has won awards and accolades from the Media, the Consumer, the Employee, and the Business World. Correct?

Continental Airlines, year after year wins the JDPower & Associates customer satisfaction award. Last year, Delta came in second (not bad for a carrier about to go under eh?) Therefore, should we in the same manner as you, generalize and say Continental Airlines is the best carrier?

Mind you, in the world of the budget conscious, you may be god's gift to airline travel. However, to many of us, who travel for both business and pleasure, your airline is limited. There is no global network, no airport clubs, no first class, no ability to earn and redeem miles on alliance carriers (yes you're starting). You can play your "everyone's first class on JetBlue jingle", however I still fail to see the wider seating, flat beds, full 4-course meals and other elements the premium traveller comes to expect.

Couple this with the fact that during IRROPS, CO can route me IAH-CLE-SYR instead of my scheduled IAH-EWR-SYR or DL can send me via CVG or ATL instead of my scheduled JFK.

And while you may have enamored a few, you're airline is still much too young to be having these kind of hiccups, especially when every little error results in a mass of bad-press. And, mind you, one recovery does not a good airline make.

Sincerely,
the drinker of Kool-Aid that is NOT blue.

[Edited 2007-03-17 19:52:30]

[Edited 2007-03-17 20:05:12]
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
westindian425
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:08 am

Everyone agrees that this is a turbulent time for B6. I sincerely doubt that this will mark the end of JetBlue Airways. They're doing what they can to recover, and I believe they will. It would apear that they've learned a valuable lesson.

It would seem that it's one thing after the next when it comes to the airline industry as a whole. What I do like is the fact that everyone is making adjustments to be the best for their customers. Kudos to B6 for not repeating what happened last month. Kudos to DL, AA, CO, US, WN, and the international carriers for doing what they could to accomodate the customers in this last hurrah by winter.

As always, the media is a powerful force to be reckoned with.
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
sanjet
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
If anything they took a bigger risk operationally for both the passenger and getting their staff to work in potential poor weather conditions.

Respectully disagree, we are not in a position to determine if they were operating outside of legal/safe limits. The pilots in the end will make the final decision.  Wink
Will Fly For Food!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting Sanjet (Reply 13):
Respectully disagree, we are not in a position to determine if they were operating outside of legal/safe limits. The pilots in the end will make the final decision.

...not to mention the dispatchers, who under 121.551 can/do pull the plug on an entire operation.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
LAXintl
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting Sanjet (Reply 13):
outside of legal/safe limits

My comment has nothing to do with flying safety...

As I said its an operational risk.. eg - If weather forecast were busted planes and passengers could be stuck again causing another terminal fiasco. Also by starting ops earlier employees and customers are asked to come in earlier as well which could possibly be increasing risk on the roads etc..

Jetblue simply seems to have opted for an earlier start time for their operations as compared with their peers and obviously was willing to take the added operation risk associated with it. Thats all.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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clickhappy
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:42 am

Nothing wrong with an executive of an airline, or any other business, offering an opinion on their place of business.

No different than having a bunch of kids who aren't even old enough to have a drivers license, or even a learners permit, offering their 'expert opinion' on why "XYZ sucks" and "ABC rulez!!!!!!!"

Most of the people who post on this board don't have the chutzpah to expose their real name.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:54 am

All of the airlines have their own strategies for getting back on track after harsh weather. Some start earlier, others start later on, both have their reasons. Saying one airline is doing better because they have flights going out of JFK during times when CO has canceled everything out of EWR makes no sense. Picking half an hour before CO goes back on track makes no sense. Plus, as has been said, CO has the ability to re-route many of their pax through CLE or IAH, they can put people over through the codeshares on NW or DL through DTW or CVG, they have a lot of options open to them. B6 is a mostly point-point airline, they'd have more trouble with re-routing.

So I'm glad B6 is getting their flights back out quickly after the snow. Trying to claim 'B6 is better than those other airlines" at handling snow seems more just like someone is still bitter about how badly B6 botched handling the storm last month.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
atlaaron
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:57 am

I would recommend Trey try and improve profitability and performance to increase shareholder value than spend time on A.net.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting OneSkyJet (Reply 7):
Since you've "outed me" in this thread

In all fairness, you outed yourself by putting your real name in your profile (which I find extremely odd for someone in your position, but that's your choice).

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
JetBlue should be given credit for acting responsibly this time around and revising their operating procedures during storms and other such events......they screwed up big time last month and seemed to have addressed the problem. But how does criticizing CO make any of this better?

Exactly.

Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 9):
And clearly, the other airlines had many more options, for instance Delta ran their JFK-BOM flight straight from ATL and connected their passengers through ATL thus avoiding cancellations.



Quoting SpencerII (Reply 10):
AT least Continental had options to re-route passengers.



Quoting SpencerII (Reply 10):
but Im' sure the Continental REservations centers, (not operating out of Moms basement) worked overtime to reaccomodate all they could thorugh IAH, and using other airlines.

With load factors nationwide as they are, I always wonder where all of this extra capacity suddenly comes from, or who those elusive "other airlines" are? Folks arguing against Carrier A because they have one hub or don't interline make it sound as though "there's a seat just waiting for you to jump in" on a different itinerary. Obviously there are often options, but when carriers are cancelling hundreds of flights in a region, it would seem that there are going to be people who get left behind. Heck, people get left behind everyday due to overbooking - and that is done intentionally!

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 10):
O & D passengers into EWR were adversely effected

Which I would imagine constitutes a large portion of CO's EWR traffic. Additionally, with as many transatlantic filghts as they have out of EWR, I'm gonna stick my neck out and guess that more than a few will face severe delays.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 15):
Jetblue simply seems to have opted for an earlier start time for their operations as compared with their peers and obviously was willing to take the added operation risk associated with it. Thats all.

I'm still trying to figure out if you are saying this is good or bad?

-Dave
-Dave
 
7of9
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting OneSkyJet (Thread starter):

I went to work this morning and CO is asking for volunteer employees from IAH to go and work at EWR for 3 days, hotel, food and 1.5% hourly pay offered... as of 12.45pm there were about 100 volunteers....i wasnt among them. i work on ramp 2, gates E1- E22
 
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sammyk
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 18):
I would recommend Trey try and improve profitability and performance to increase shareholder value than spend time on A.net.

I always find these comments funny. I guess you must have a job that requires you to work 24/7 and yet you still find time to post here. The guy has 25 posts to his name. Gee, I guess he must be wasting too much time on A.net instead of working. Right.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 16):
Most of the people who post on this board don't have the chutzpah to expose their real name.

You must be talking about me.  Smile

-Dave (er, Fred I mean)

(Seriously, good post!)
-Dave
 
propilotjw
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:26 am

I am a bit puzzled. OneSkyJet claims that they are a VP at JetBlue yet in their profile they state that they are "Chairman,CEO".... maybe it's time to update that profile

[Edited 2007-03-17 21:32:51]
 
n844aa
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:28 am

I never thought I'd live to see the day that I was disappointed to see an airline EVP posting on here, but here we are. I realize you included your name in your profile, and given that I can hardly fault you for your post, but for you to bash a competitor like that without making clear your affiliation strikes me as distateful. Just my opinion, of course. Still, these kinds of promotional tactics aren't exactly moving B6 up my list of airlines to consider for my transporation needs -- just seems unprofessional to me, and I try not to reward that kind of behavior.

Edit: You know, it occurs to me that this could be -- oh, what do they call it in spy novels -- a false flag? This is probably not a B6 EVP at all, and instead someone trying to make B6 look bad by posting these propagandistic, empty comments. That makes a lot more sense than an actual B6 corporate officer posting comments like this on an enthusiast message board.

[Edited 2007-03-17 21:31:47]
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:28 am

Smart move, Trey, putting your real name on your profile, then using cherry picked stats to "show" your airline is "best". I wonder if you'll copy your bosses in on your actions. Unfortunately, it looks like JetBlue may be turning to propaganda to increase its sagging image and bottom line. How sad.

If last month's meltdown got too much negative press, welcome to the fish bowl of the NYC area and a media that will pounce on a story and ride it as long as it gets ratings.

Trey sounds a little arrogant from a carrier that screwed up big time last month, grounded the entire foreign built E190 fleet to straighten things out, has outed 5 million customers itineraries in Sept 02, removed seats to eliminate a flight attendant position on foreign built A320's, had to delay orders of the E190 due to undoubtedly an overaggressive fleet plan. Maybe expansion into places like EWR weren't the best of business decisions.

Maybe if the stock options and profit sharing lag while the other benefits of explosive growth begin to further challenge JetBlue, they won't be so "different" as their employees may vote to unionize. David Neeleman has stated he'd oppose unionization, which should be surprising for a company that's given exclusively and heavily to the Democrats (the Blue Party), which is heavily funded by unions and employee rights.
sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/
 
atlaaron
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting Sammyk (Reply 21):
I always find these comments funny. I guess you must have a job that requires you to work 24/7 and yet you still find time to post here.

You are pretty close to correct. Anyhow . . .


I'm basically pointing out that I agree with another posted who thinks it is very distateful to come on here and bash on another airline when you are supposedly an airline exec. He is asking us basically not to bash on his airline but comes on here and bashes CO. Ok so maybe B6 had more takeoffs today, but I ask him to post the facts of the winter of 2006-2007 B6 vs. CO.
 
lincoln
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:37 am

Though personally I would have prefered a "Confiict of Interest" disclaimer in the original post, I am glad to see a real airline executive here rather than the dozens of "armchair" execs (including myself  Smile) running arount the fourm. I personally wouldn't be so quick to run Mr. Urbahn off, but hey that's just my $0.02

Hey...an airline exec with a passion for the industry and the company they're working for...and who's reading an avaition fourm on the weekend, no less. Maybe if there were more of them, the airline industry wouldn't be in as sorry a state as it is...

Quoting PropilotJW (Reply 23):
I am a bit puzzled. OneSkyJet claims that they are a VP at JetBlue yet in their profile they state that they are "Chairman,CEO".... odd

If you look at the URL in his profile OneSky appears to be a fractional jet operation -- and Mr. Urbahn is listed as the Chairman of the board (the CEO role is held by someone else, my guess would be he resigned the CEO position at the smaller company to take the step up to take a lower (in title at least) position at a larger company.

Also note that he didn't claim that he was a VP, someone else "outed" him.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
jimyvr
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting OneSkyJet (Thread starter):
There's been an awful ot of JetBlue bashing lately on this forum that deserves some factual update

Um, 4 planes sitting on the tarmac for more than 4 hours, probably one new record in recent history, you think people won't question it? Besides, this is a doubt on the airline's ability, not bashing.

Quoting OneSkyJet (Reply 7):
Our crewmembers have built a great airline and are proud it, as by the way, am I. Last month, we let our customers down

Not only you let your customers down but your staff down. Communication meltdown. Frustrated workers who are working at the airport encountering angry passengers. Frustrated workers who are willing and can to work unable to reach the top management.

Quoting OneSkyJet (Reply 7):
we've proved to our customers and to ourselves that we're different because we're better.

Kudos for having a day of smooth operation in a messy weather, but, while you admit you are biased, you are creating a blinded-fact to your customers. Continental is probably 2-4 times bigger in terms of operation in New York compared to jetBlue. They have to make urgent decision with the individual departments to make sure no one stuck on the planes on the tarmac or even on the runway

Quoting OneSkyJet (Reply 7):
JetBlue is different. Perhaps that's why we are held to a higher standard

Would you mind to elaborate what's the "higher standard"? or why is jetBlue different? This is not the first time an airline having operational meltdown. US Airways had it before, Northwest had it before, and others had it before.

This is the media grilling, not bashing.


But at the end, I'd say it's actually a brave move for the executives to come to a.net to speak their mind out.

[Edited 2007-03-17 21:51:20]
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
propilotjw
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 27):
If you look at the URL in his profile OneSky appears to be a fractional jet operation -- and Mr. Urbahn is listed as the Chairman of the board (the CEO role is held by someone else, my guess would be he resigned the CEO position at the smaller company to take the step up to take a lower (in title at least) position at a larger company.

that is correct. hence, I had updated my post to say "maybe it's time to update that profile"
 
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clickhappy
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:18 am

I am a bit puzzled. OneSkyJet claims that they are a VP at JetBlue yet in their profile they state that they are "Chairman,CEO".... maybe it's time to update that profile

Don't quit your day job, according to this he IS Chairman, http://www.onesky.com/ManagementTeam.cfm

Not uncommon for execs to wear multiple hats.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting PropilotJW (Reply 23):
I am a bit puzzled. OneSkyJet claims that they are a VP at JetBlue yet in their profile they state that they are "Chairman,CEO".... maybe it's time to update that profile

For a guy who has worked in Revenue Control for NW, US, and UA, this thread kinda makes his entire cover seem a little fishy to me:

I'm curious just how "aggressive" carriers have gotten in jamming passengers into their aircraft. The worst pitch I've ever heard of is 29 inches, but I'm sure this has been eclipsed at some point.

In terms of seat width, the worst configurations I've seen are

767: 3x3x3 (Excel)
DC-10: 3x4x3 (Garuda)

Has anyone tried to to 3x5x3 in a 747?
How about 3x4 in a narrowbody?
or 3x3 in a dc-9

Just curious.

Cramped Seating (by OneSkyJet May 20 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Seems to me that a man with such a long history in the business should know the answer to this right off.

Just my   

[Edited 2007-03-17 22:26:42]

[Edited 2007-03-17 22:28:54]
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:43 am

This is a harsh group.  Silly

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 28):
I'd say it's actually a brave move for the executives to come to a.net to speak their mind out.

Brave and refreshing. Wonder how long he'll continue post (more likely just watch and monitor)?

I was thinking this and It was mentioned before, how do you compare EWR's ops with JFK's ops? That is like comparing SFO with OAK. Two different set-ups, two different weather conditions, etc.. You just can't compare them.

B6 has a huge hurdle to get over. This is going to take time to overcome. And they will. B6's drive to get things out and off today was probably driven by their 2/14 fiasco. They probably should have taken that step, anyway.

This isn't the first time CO (or DL, AA, NW, etc.) has had to deal with severe weather ops. Nor will it be the last. But for B6, it was their first "big" one. In time, they will be like the others and deal with it appropriately. And threads like this will be but a search function find.
You can't cure stupid
 
wukka
Posts: 884
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 27):
Though personally I would have prefered a "Confiict of Interest" disclaimer in the original post, I am glad to see a real airline executive here rather than the dozens of "armchair" execs (including myself Smile) running arount the fourm. I personally wouldn't be so quick to run Mr. Urbahn off, but hey that's just my $0.02

Hey...an airline exec with a passion for the industry and the company they're working for...and who's reading an avaition fourm on the weekend, no less. Maybe if there were more of them, the airline industry wouldn't be in as sorry a state as it is...



Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 28):
But at the end, I'd say it's actually a brave move for the executives to come to a.net to speak their mind out.

Absolutely. This is the kind of thing that would and should make a.net a better place to be.

Much respect to Lincoln, Jim, and OneSkyJet (even though I've never flown B6). I'd add Royal to that list, but he already has his share of butt-kissers.  Big grin
We can agree to disagree.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting OneSkyJet (Reply 7):
Thanks to the dedication and hard work of our crewmembers, we managed to meet and overcome a significant weather event yesterday.

No offense, but after the St. Valentine's Day massacre you had nowhere to go but up. So let's not go patting ourselves on our backs quite yet...

Quoting OneSkyJet (Reply 7):
In doing so, we've proved to our customers and to ourselves that we're different because we're better.

I'd love to hear you elaborate on why you think you're better then, say, WN, DL, or CO.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 16):
Nothing wrong with an executive of an airline, or any other business, offering an opinion on their place of business.

But there is something wrong with him posting such a biased post without informing the board of who he is...just my opinion.
 
unitednrt
Posts: 261
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:08 am

Kudos to Mr. Urbahn on actually initiating contact through the forum. I welcome his comments, though they seem to be biased, and look forward to more in the future.

UnitedNRT


Quick Question:
As upper-management, why would you personally post "propaganda of sorts"? I can honestly see a public relations employee, flight attendant, ramp service employee posting such information but the figure in command of network planning and revenue management?

I, for the most part, try to stay out of postings with opinion-based information and I suggest it for you as well.

From United to JetBlue, we're all team players in this industry.

Have a nice weekend all,

UnitedNRT

[Edited 2007-03-17 23:33:00]
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
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727stretch
Posts: 70
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 18):
I would recommend Trey try and improve profitability and performance to increase shareholder value than spend time on A.net.

Actually I think having an airline VP on a forum like this (or flyertalk.com, etc.) is a very cheap way to reach out to the aviation community & frequent flyers. Regardless of whether or not we all agree with the info he posted, it's still a great idea in my opinion to have the airline higher ups interacting here.
flightdiary.net/727stretch
 
spyderz
Posts: 624
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:22 am

First off, I think people have been way too harsh with the original poster. I think it generally describes the culture of this forum. Based on the negative feedback to the original post, it could show where loyalties lie.

Anyways, as mentioned, comparing EWR to JFK is really not fair since it adverse weather conditions, JFK will always win out due to the airport layout. Since JFK two runways that can operate independently, whenver the FAA mandates IFR approaches instead of VFR, the capacity at JFK is hardly reduced. However, at Newark capacity is reduced in half when such changes occur due to the runways not being able to operate independently. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that under IFR conditions, the number of arrivals and departures scheduled for Newark far exceeds the capacity. Based on all of this, one would expect JFK airport to better handle adverse weather conditions than EWR.

This structural set-up is partly reflected in DOT on time statistics:
January 2006 to 2007

Continental @ EWR
On-time: 65.31%
Cancelled: 0.95%

JetBlue @ JFK
On-time: 70.69%
Cancelled: 0.49%

However the question remains, does an airline want to increase costs dramatically in order to marginally increase the on-time percentage?

In some situations you don't.
 
tu154
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:37 am

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:42 am

The question that first popped up in my head was is this profile true or a fake? If I was in a VP position at an airline I certainly would not include my name in my profile. Look at 90% of the profiles here, no name included. Don't airlines teach us not to give our personal opinion to the press, or in this case an airline forum. We are taught to leave that up to our airlines public media departments. "no comment" as I was taught. I just doesn't add up. It's never been done before by an airline VP. Why now? Why JetBlue? (oh I forgot. They're a different kind of company.) Can you imagine a VP of UA, AA ,DL, CO etc. giving his/her personal opinion on Airliners.net? c'mon!
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting UnitedNRT (Reply 35):
Kudos to Mr. Urbahn on actually initiating contact through the forum.



Quoting 727stretch (Reply 36):
Regardless of whether or not we all agree with the info he posted, it's still a great idea in my opinion to have the airline higher ups interacting here.

This goes back to my objections to his original post: he never identified himself as a B6 executive. He was, to use his words, "outed" by another poster. I think that the credibility of his post is diminished when looked at with the fact that he clearly has an agenda. If he had come on here and said "Hey, folks, I'm an exec at JetBlue, and I know we didn't do so well in the last storm, but here's what we did today" I think it would have been better received then what he did, which was to use FlightAware stats and never divulge his identity. Also, as others have stated, his logic is flawed: the other airlines didn't ave to recover their NE ops as quickly because they can route pax through other cities and hubs, something B6 is not able to do. FInally, his post of "we're better" was absurd. Let your operation do your talking for you.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 1):
JetBlue Airways (Nasdaq:JBLU) today announces the appointment of Trey Urbahn to the position of Executive Vice President, Chief Revenue Officer, effective immediately. Mr. Urbahn will be responsible for the low-fare airline's Revenue Management, Route Planning, Marketing and Sales performance, and will report to JetBlue CEO David Neeleman. "

Does your boss know you're here?
Dear moderators: No.
 
YBCS
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:05 am

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 25):
Smart move, Trey, putting your real name on your profile, then using cherry picked stats to "show" your airline is "best". I wonder if you'll copy your bosses in on your actions. Unfortunately, it looks like JetBlue may be turning to propaganda to increase its sagging image and bottom line. How sad.

It amazes me the length to which people will go in slamming, flaming and generally putting people down for holding opinions different from ones own, all the while hiding behind a moniker that protects his true identity. I think that anybody who wishes to be taken seriously and who signs up to this site should put their real name and details in their profile. It not only gives them credibility but also promotes civility and responsibility which unfortunately is seriously lacking in some threads in this forum.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 25):
Trey sounds a little arrogant from a carrier that screwed up big time last month, grounded the entire foreign built E190 fleet to straighten things out, has outed 5 million customers itineraries in Sept 02, removed seats to eliminate a flight attendant position on foreign built A320's, had to delay orders of the E190 due to undoubtedly an overaggressive fleet plan. Maybe expansion into places like EWR weren't the best of business decisions.

This statement, while having a portion of truth apportioned to it, is laughable when you look at the originators hobby. oops there goes my civility.  ashamed 
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke
 
N770WD
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:50 am

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Wukka (Reply 34):
But there is something wrong with him posting such a biased post without informing the board of who he is...just my opinion.

Fortunately nobody around here is known for biased posts.  Smile

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 18):
I would recommend Trey try and improve profitability and performance to increase shareholder value than spend time on A.net.

Lots of airline executives frequently scan these boards for chatter and intel. Even if a.net is right 50% of the time, that's still 50% better than lots of other sources. Same goes for FlyerTalk. As for profitability, I think Trey and the JetBlue team have a better idea of how to achieve that than most. That said, if you have ideas of how to improve profitability, this is the forum to share it.

Quoting OneSkyJet (Thread starter):
The facts show that JetBlue has made significant steps in improving their operational reliability since last month's Valentine's Day storm. In addition they are the first and only airline to put their money where therir mouth is with a passenger "Bill of Rights".

When the weather gets ugly, JFK becomes an operational trainwreck. Last night we cancelled our JFK flight (before boarding) due to weather and the deicing debacle. It was our first cancellation in eight weeks but ops made the right call. The fact of the matter is that JFK is overstressed -- since no single carrier has a traditional hub, no planning department would see enough benefit to merit spreading departures to minimize taxi time for everyone. Contrast that to Continental at Newark - CO has 65% of the departures between 4pm and 8pm so they spread their departure times accordingly, since they have the most to gain and lose. At JFK, the biggest carrier in that window, Delta, still only has 33% of total departures. So everyone just piles on when they want -- maybe even, god forbid, to screw with the other carriers. JetBlue was caught with their pants down in February, partly because of JFK's unique factors and partly because the organization didn't have the infrastructure to deal with the "new" JFK. Now they're doing what they do best -- planning. For that Trey and the team deserve a lot of credit. Russ Chew is going to make a big difference too.
 
propilotjw
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 30):
Don't quit your day job, according to this he IS Chairman, http://www.onesky.com/ManagementTeam.cfm

Not uncommon for execs to wear multiple hats.

lol... he is not CEO. Greg Johnson is the CEO. Don't quit my day job? What does my "day job" have to do with anything?
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 40):
Does your boss know you're here?

Maybe Neeleman is here, too. You never know.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
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fanoftristars
Posts: 1544
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 19):
With load factors nationwide as they are, I always wonder where all of this extra capacity suddenly comes from, or who those elusive "other airlines" are? Folks arguing against Carrier A because they have one hub or don't interline make it sound as though "there's a seat just waiting for you to jump in" on a different itinerary. Obviously there are often options, but when carriers are cancelling hundreds of flights in a region, it would seem that there are going to be people who get left behind. Heck, people get left behind everyday due to overbooking - and that is done intentionally!

Airlines regularly add extra flights when warranted. While not the busiest flyer, I fly over 100,000 domestic miles a year and I can count twice this year that I've seen when DL has added an extra flight based on overbooking or weather problems. These often show up in the schedule as DL9977 or something in the 9000s. And last week my flight from PVD-CVG was cancelled because of weather, but no probelm, I got on the BOS-SLC flight, even thought it was -9 when I got on the standby list.

My point was, I think this guy is full of it, and actually detracts from the image JetBlue is trying to portray with his comments.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
airtran737700
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:16 am

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:28 am

JETBLUE made themselves out to be "better than the other airlines" offering "the JETBLUE experience"....well, they messed up, like every other airline, but the difference is that they always made themselves look the perfect child, and now they have messed up. I am not saying that I think B6 deserves this much bad press, but face it it was a long time comming. just my $0.02
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 45):
My point was, I think this guy is full of it, and actually detracts from the image JetBlue is trying to portray with his comments.

Very well said.  checkmark 
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 44):
Maybe Neeleman is here, too. You never know.

I thought you liked trains Mark....or shall I say "Mark" as if that is your real name. HA.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
qantasguy
Posts: 135
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RE: JetBlue: 54 Continental: 3

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:51 am

I am a JetBlue customer. I will fly them again - even in bad weather. I appreciated the thread starter and the stats presented. There are a lot of companies here in the USA who have made mistakes along the way. I have, and I probably will again. What separates the "men from the boys" is how we deal with it. Back in Feb, it was a real bad deal for JetBlue's passengers and also for management. Obviously they took note and It was very quickly that Neeleman went on TV and apologised for the whole mistake. He also compensated his passengers and came out with the "Passenger Bill of Rights" This desire to make things right takes guts and determination. Here is a man who completely stands behind his word. A lot of people would have just let it pass, or had someone else do the dirty work. I appreciate the integrity of jetBlue, and because of this, I will continue to check them first when I need to fly.
Airplanes Flown on..B-727-100, B-727-200, DC-9, F-27, B-707, B-717, B-737, B-747SP, B-747-100, B-747-200, B-747-300, B74

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