Max777geek
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Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:22 am

http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/C..._Marzo/18/volo_accanto_morta.shtml

sorry if already posted. flight was to dehli, no other details on the italian source.

the pax died in economy and been upgraded in business with her daughter
(who was still alive but obviously desperate) the article reports a very disappointed
business pax who said "he did pay 3000 gbp to travel next to a died body",
well the upgrade did cost her more, it seems to me.
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:44 am

Poor soul, literally! At least he died closer to heaven.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
philb
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting Max777geek (Thread starter):
the article reports a very disappointed
business pax who said "he did pay 3000 gbp to travel next to a died body",

Mindless and heartless idiot.
 
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OA260
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:02 am

More here in English but no mention of the complaining passenger.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv..._article_id=420484&in_page_id=1770

Very sad but they couldnt do anything else so the guy complaining should be ashamed of himself. People are so selfish these days. I suppose the same guy was sipping Moet for the rest of the flight!!!
 
flyabunch
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:26 am

If I paid over $4000 for my seat and then they put a body in my row and had to put up with the family wailing for several hours and then was held on the plane for over an hour after landing by the police just in case I was a witness, I would be upset too.

I would not expect anyone to be comfortable with that arrangement. What are the various airline policies regarding death on board? I want to make sure that I do not fly the ones that say "we prop them up in a seat in first or business class and let the families join them for the remainder of the trip...and oh by the way, if you are in that section you have to stay and talk to the police and the coroner after landing".

No Thanks!

Mike
 
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OA260
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 4):
If I paid over $4000 for my seat and then they put a body in my row and had to put up with the family wailing for several hours and then was held on the plane for over an hour after landing by the police just in case I was a witness, I would be upset too.

I would not expect anyone to be comfortable with that arrangement. What are the various airline policies regarding death on board? I want to make sure that I do not fly the ones that say "we prop them up in a seat in first or business class and let the families join them for the remainder of the trip...and oh by the way, if you are in that section you have to stay and talk to the police and the coroner after landing".

No Thanks!

Mike

Well i wouldnt like it either and im freaked out by dead bodies but im a grown up man and I have been brought up with certain values and I would just have to put up with it!!!! Its no ones fault. If it was your mother or father maybe you would be a bit more compassionate. I guess its a cultural thing!!!!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:51 am

A new approach to getting an upgrade.....passing away while inflight. Sorry, that was in poor taste.

Sad, but it happens from time to time...didnt SQ equip the A345s with a special compartment (like a morgue) in order to deal with situations such as this on the ULH flights?
 
philb
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:59 am

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 4):
If I paid over $4000 for my seat and then they put a body in my row and had to put up with the family wailing for several hours and then was held on the plane for over an hour after landing by the police just in case I was a witness, I would be upset too.

Hopefully you'll never be in the position of the deceased or the family in such circumstances.

Me, me, me, me , me!!

Have some consideration for others
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:01 am

Wasn't there a thread about this incident sometime ago?

MCOflyer

[Edited 2007-03-19 02:01:31]
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
vega
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:13 am

I would have thought that BA as classy as they present, would have moved several passengers from other cabins to First, cleared the last seats at the far back of WT in the aircraft and put the body there out of the way of gawkers, or for 5 hours, put it in a restroom, open a scent can and block the door. It would also possibly have been easier to calm the family if the body was out of sight.Too logical I guess. This is not a matter of not feeling sorry for the dead or their family, but containing the inconvenience to the least number of passengers.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
MKandiah
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 9):



Quoting Vega (Reply 9):
I would have thought that BA as classy as they present, would have moved several passengers from other cabins to First, cleared the last seats at the far back of WT in the aircraft and put the body there out of the way of gawkers, or for 5 hours, put it in a restroom, open a scent can and block the door. It would also possibly have been easier to calm the family if the body was out of sight.Too logical I guess. This is not a matter of not feeling sorry for the dead or their family, but containing the inconvenience to the least number of passengers.

Just over 10 years ago my father unexpectedly died on a long haul flight.

What has to be understood is the extreme distress that everyone, including the cabin crew, are under. To their credit, they behaved with great professionalism and they had to weigh up difficult options on the spot, including coping with travelling relatives who are in shock.

I am happy to say that no one on the aeroplane was as insensitive as some of the people who contribute to this forum appear to be.
 
28thguy
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:51 am

I really think that the corpse should have been put in the crew rest area, or locked into a lavatory or put in a F/A jump seat. Several feet away from other passengers.

Given public health concerns (to be blunt, bodily functions tend to begin a few hours after death as sphincter muscles relax, and also the person could have died of a communicable disease), I think it's HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE for BA to have put the corpse next to somebody in first class without an appropriate "buffer" zone.
 
28thguy
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):

I would have been concerned about health issues and wanted to get as far away from dead body as possible.
 
jkudall
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 12):
I would have been concerned about health issues and wanted to get as far away from dead body as possible.

What health issues? Just being in close proximity to a dead person is not going to hurt anyone. Through the nature of my profession I see, touch, and am otherwise in close proximity to people who are deceased quite often and have never become ill from one.

Any passenger who would have the audacity to complain over something like this obviously has no respect for the deceased or their loved ones. If anyone had any uneasiness over sitting next to someone who died, they can move seats.

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 11):
I really think that the corpse should have been put in the crew rest area, or locked into a lavatory or put in a F/A jump seat. Several feet away from other passengers.

Locked in a lavatory? Yeah, thats respectful.
 
28thguy
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:55 am

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 13):
What health issues? Just being in close proximity to a dead person is not going to hurt anyone. Through the nature of my profession I see, touch, and am otherwise in close proximity to people who are deceased quite often and have never become ill from one.

Any passenger who would have the audacity to complain over something like this obviously has no respect for the deceased or their loved ones. If anyone had any uneasiness over sitting next to someone who died, they can move seats.

Actually, I believe that the flight was full which precluded switching seats.

If a living passenger in the next seat defecated in their pants and sat in it for 5-6 hours, you wouldn't mind at all? Let alone any concerns about diseases.

I think that these first-class passengers deserve compensation. That corpse should have been locked in a lavatory or put in crew rest area. After all, if there's nothing wrong with sitting near a dead body, why even bother moving it from coach?
 
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fxramper
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:59 am

Other carriers use different procedures. Singapore Airlines has introduced “corpse cupboards” on its Airbus 340-500 aircraft. Cabin crews use the locker if there is no empty row of seats to place a corpse.

 tombstone 
 
Markhkg
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:30 pm

Some carriers have a policy to place the deceased pax on a wheelchair, put on oxygen mask on them (to make them look like they are alive, but sick), wheel them to a lav and them lock them inside the lav.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
Norcal773
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:48 pm

It's in threads like this that I sometimes feel ashamed to be an American.  ashamed . Has anyone else realized Americans are the only ones with an issue about this?  embarrassed 

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
I guess its a cultural thing!!!!

No it's not. Too many people out there are just about me, myself and I.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 8):
Wasn't there a thread about this incident sometime ago?

Yes there was. can't seem to find it though.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:54 pm

Or if the passenger sitting next to the deceased isn't aware that the pax is now "gone", just leave them alone, or put a blanket on them and ask the passenger sitting next to them not to bother them as they are "sleeping" and need the rest.

But I couldn't think of a better way to go, drink in hand watching the clouds go by........
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
EK345
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:16 pm

For all those who responded with negative comments, I would ask to put yourself in the following situation:

You are travelling with a loved one, perhaps your father, mother, brother, sister, wife, husband, and they should happen to pass away. How would you handle the situation for your deceased loved one? Provide constructive feedback, don't just throw comments out there that are so insensitive that I am left speechless at the thought that you actually believe the garbage you have written.

I'm looking forward to your responses.

Peace.

EK345

[Edited 2007-03-19 08:16:51]
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
Charles79
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:23 pm

I have performed as a guardsman in Air Force military honors at funerals, and we are always told that the respect must be given to both the deceased and the relatives/friends. I think BA performed in the most respectful manner, and by placing the body in the F cabin it's closer to the exit for easier unloading. Besides, given that his wife is still on board and probably extremely stressed, it's the quietest cabin for both to spend the last 3 hours of their live together.

I feel very sorry for the widow, congratulate the BA crew for handling a difficult situation in a very professional way, and hope that no one here has to experience something like this ever.

Charlie
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 8):
Wasn't there a thread about this incident sometime ago?

Similar, different death, different flight, same carrier.
RE: BA:Dead Pax Put Into First Class (by Ryanair!!! Dec 6 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Seems to me BA needs to get it's crap together with how to deal with onboard deaths.

NO, I don't want anyone dead sitting next to me . . . not in Y, not in C, not in F.

BA needs to handle this better. You'd have thought, perhaps, they'd learned the first time. Apparently, no.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Simong
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:31 pm

Writing as an x-cabin crew member I ask you all to consider the following. This is not an everyday occurence. Cabin members have to suddenly deal with an issue that is more than likely *a first time event*. One that they are not any more familiar with than the rest of the passengers onboard their flight. Every situation is different depending on loads, routing, length of flight, the number of accompanying family members etc. Yes ... it may be unsettling for a *full fare Business Class* .passenger to deal with ... truth is, it is probably unsettling for just about everyone. Shit happens .... and we don't often have a choice of where or when it happens. Why would it be BA or VS or AA or SQ or any other airline out there's fault that his has happened. Its an unfortunate event that needs a solution that is obviously not going to please everyone onboard. BUT THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ...... so they deal with it as best they can. Where is the compassion ?
Some of you must be the same people who swear and get pissed off if there is a major road accident and a family of five has died ........... OK so you got held up in traffic for 45 minutes ..... big F'n deal .... a family of five died ! Bet they wished that their biggest problem that day was a 45 minute delay !!!!! Think about it people..... and get a life, $10,000 bloody ticket or $299 .... we are all supposedly human.
And for those of you who suggest *specifically designated corpse areas* on A/C and all kinds of other *special features* I bet you would be the first to complain that airfares increase because of these *additions* ! Face it with some of you lot .... the airlines couldn't win for losing.

Bitch On
BA all the way !!!
 
abletofly
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:04 pm

Well, death is a natural part of life. Over the year death have been looked at as almost like a taboo? Right?
Fore sure people are different, and feels different about lying next to a dead body, but come on. It shouldn't give anyone trauma for the rest of their lives..?
I just felt free to express..  Smile

Regards.
 
rpaillard
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:20 pm

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 16):
Some carriers have a policy to place the deceased pax on a wheelchair, put on oxygen mask on them (to make them look like they are alive, but sick), wheel them to a lav and them lock them inside the lav

 checkmark 

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 17):
Has anyone else realized Americans are the only ones with an issue about this?

I will also have an issue in such situation. Basically, we have airlines that screw up the plane to maximize payload. As far as things going fine, it works. But in such situation, there is no resources to handle to situation decently, either for the dead person and others passengers.

Quoting EK345 (Reply 19):
I'm looking forward to your responses

In that case, I will have no objection to have this concern handled like quoted in reply 16. I think it's really the best balance, providing the fact there is no in-plane morgue.

I do acknowledge this is a terrible situation. But honestly I do not feel selfish to ask Airlines to handle it decently for all.
I do not have the truth regarding sanitary concern, but I think 28thguy raised valid questions.

Regards,
Raphael
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
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OA260
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:37 pm

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 13):
Locked in a lavatory? Yeah, thats respectful

I just hope it happens to those on here that have been making the discraceful , shameless comments and I know I shouldnt be saying that but some people are so beyond believe that it stretches my religious values of tollerance.

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 17):
Has anyone else realized Americans are the only ones with an issue about this?

Well I really wasnt going to say it but it did cross my mind, but then again im sure many Americans would agree with the compassionate members of this forum , they just are not members on Anet!!!

[Edited 2007-03-19 10:54:07]
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:41 pm

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 11):
Given public health concerns (to be blunt, bodily functions tend to begin a few hours after death as sphincter muscles relax, and also the person could have died of a communicable disease), I think it's HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE for BA to have put the corpse next to somebody in first class without an appropriate "buffer" zone.

Stop listening to long standing myths; in all my years dealing with the deceased I have never ever seen the scenario you describe. Its all total baloney. Unless the person had an infectious disease prior to death, they will not be infectious after. Your main risk is from vapour transmission, when breathing ceases, so does the risk. The sphincter case is simply untrue.

Quoting Vega (Reply 9):
cleared the last seats at the far back of WT in the aircraft and put the body there out of the way of gawkers

Do you really think there's enough width to do this in a block of seats ? I'm sure there isn't. Due to the future onset of rigor mortis, you need a flat area; I assume this is why BA use a club world seat.
 
cchan
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:10 pm

If the dead passenger is put in a window or aisle seat next to his relative, then it is perfectly ok. But if the body is placed immediately next to another unrelated passenger without his/her consent, then it is rather disturbing. People have their choices, it is understandable that most people don't want to sit next to a dead body, and their choice should also be respected.
 
Max777geek
Topic Author
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:19 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
didnt SQ equip the A345s with a special compartment (like a morgue) in order to deal with situations such as this on the ULH flights?

Yes, they did. I think it is used also to bring deads instead of the cargo load.
Can't remember the description, but Im pretty sure I saw a picture about it on a.net.
 
hz747300
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
Very sad but they couldnt do anything else so the guy complaining should be ashamed of himself. People are so selfish these days. I suppose the same guy was sipping Moet for the rest of the flight!!!

I for one don't find the man that selfish, and I actually agree with him, if the body remained right next to him for the remainder of the flight. If the body was moved to a different location and discreetly covered, then I think he is complaining just to get his name in the paper.
Keep on truckin'...
 
philb
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:38 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
Seems to me BA needs to get it's crap together with how to deal with onboard deaths.

NO, I don't want anyone dead sitting next to me . . . not in Y, not in C, not in F.

BA needs to handle this better. You'd have thought, perhaps, they'd learned the first time. Apparently, no.

Seems to me that for all your experience in the army and law enforcement, you know nothing about dealing with such a situation on board an aircraft . I've not much time for BA as a company from real experience of flying long and short haul with them but have seen both a medical emergency (acute appendicitis) handled on a full 747 over the Atlantic and a death on a full European flight.

In both instances the crew behaved in an exemplary manner. The appendicitis victim was taken from her seat and was lain on the floor at the rear of the 747 (hardly a dignified position) but it enabled two doctors on board to attend to her and gave her the maximum relief from discomfort. It did inconvenience the passengers as access to two of the toilets was blocked for over 3 hours. There were no complaints - passengers were more concerned for her health than any inconvenience to themselves, including a diversion,

In the case of the death, the passenger died from a heart attack, seated in one of four Club Class rows on a BAC 1-11, and everyone knew because his heart attack and death caused him to both shout and moan before expiring.

As the aircraft was full and he was in an aisle seat with two, non-related, passengers in the seats next to him and three across the narrow aisle from him, there was no option but to leave him where he was for the time it took (30 minutes) to complete the flight.

Again, no criticism from the passengers.- just concern for the victim and the crew.

Perhaps you would care to share your views on exactly how the situation referred to that started this thread and the situation I described on the 1-11 could have been handled better.
 
B707Stu
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:43 pm

Condolences to those who've lost a loved one on board.

I wonder what the data does show vis-a-vis frequency per carrier based on length-of-trip, region, aircraft type, etc. I'm sure this data is kept somewhere. I ask because it's clearly not a unique thing and I'm sure every airline has procedures as it would be negligence to allow staff to work without being prepared for something of this nature.

It's obviously unpleasant for everyone involved and it's clearly a time when staff's professionalism is required, probably, next to an in flight emergency landing or evacuation, the one time it's most needed. Death is a subject most people would rather ignore, I hope major carriers aren't ignoring it in their training and policies and procedures.

As awful as it sounds I'd rather have a procedure that instills calm and order, even if it be putting me in the lav should I die on board, than chaos.
 
timboflier215
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:52 pm

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 11):
locked into a lavatory

Could you imagine that?! Your with your loved one on a flight. They have just died. Instead of laying them out on a seat for you to begin the grieving process, the crew take the body and lock it into one of the TINY onboard toilets!! The body would have to go in upright, as there's no room for lying down in the lavs. One airline did this recently, and caused a firestorm in the media, and on here. Would you want a recently deceased loved one locked in an aircraft toilet?!?! To those who were whinging: if your that upset, move to a seat in Y for the rest of the flight!
 
SRMD11
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:09 pm

It's allways sad if something happend like this. But why was this poor passanger transfered to business? Does it make any difference if you are dead? I think not. Anyway, I think, Airlines should be prepared better if something happens like this... there should be space in the cabin crew compartement - maybe the jump seat would be a option too...
 
cyclonic
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:09 pm

No matter what your opinion on BA, I applaud their actions. To add, i'm very disappointed with the inconsiderate and uncaring attitudes of some of the posters here.

Face it:

*Deaths in-flight are realtively rare,not all airlines can afford specialised areas for the deceased in the off chance a death happens.
*The flight was full - where was the poor guy and his grieving partner supposed to go?
*The airline crew did its absolute best under an extremely trying situation.
Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
 
BA777ER236
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:38 pm

I have been watching this thread with interest, and I thought I would add a perspective from a Captain who has actually had this happen.

Just over two years ago, a lady passenger of mine passed away from a massive heart attack whilst in flight between IAH and ORD.

We weren't full, and we were still 'working' on the lady with CPR during touchdown after return into IAH.

In this case, paramedics were waiting, and declared the lady as beyond hope almost immediately.

I had never experienced anything like this in my previous 23 years of professional flying, and hope to never see anything like it again. The range of emotions and challenges were huge. The crew were highly emotional and stressed, but IMO behaved with great professionalism throughout. The US authorities would not take the body off the aircraft without the Coroner's approval, and this took over two hours. Neither would they let the passengers off, as the police wished to interview some as witnesses to a possible 'crime scene'. This was also the case with the involved crew, including myself.

We obviously had the problem of where to put the lady. The paramedics were intent on carrying her through the entire a/c and leaving her by Door 1. I intervened, as I didn't want to distress our entire passenger load, and she was left covered by Door 3L until we were allowed to take her off by 'high lift' from there.

The task of keeping the passengers informed of the situation obviously fell to me, and I can tell you that I have never felt so emotional whils't making PAs in my entire life.

Most of our passengers were very understanding. Several were very emotional, and we spent much time with them, comforting them etc. Some were just downright awkward, and demanded to know when we were going to depart again etc. I personally spent a LOT of time trying to placate them, but most of them didn't seem to understand the impact on the crew etc.

At the end of the day, tragedies happen, fortunately rarely. I can assure you that any BA crew involved in this sort of incident, would not treat any aspect lightly. Much time would have been spent considering the best option as to where the body should go, and with a full a/c, the options are limited. The option of putting a loved one in a toilet, may seem like a good one, but if they are there for some time, then Rigor Mortis can set in, and make it very difficult to get them out again! This may well have been considered, but also rejected because of the relatives.

The option of having a 'locker' seems like a good idea, and maybe all longhaul airlines should consider this.


Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
Seems to me BA needs to get it's crap together with how to deal with onboard deaths.

I completely resent this remark. I don't believe that you have ANY idea of how complicated these things can be, especially as all cases are different.

BA are coming in for an aweful lot of stick at the moment, sometimes justified, but most times not. The vast majority of
us are constantly trying very hard to provide a professional and safe product, and many of the comments that we get from the press and from forums are just plain depressing, hurtful, and more importantly, JUST PLAIN WRONG.
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:43 pm

Quoting Philb (Reply 30):

Phil, I have dealt with in-flight medicals personally. The latest was a US/HP flight ANC-PHX just last October where I treated a Heart Attack victim. We moved him to F to a vacant seat, were able to talk to the cockpit on the phone, get the guy taken care of. So, while I've never dealt with a death on board, other in-flight emergencies I have.

A medical emergency is not a death. You cannot compare apples to oranges Phil.

Seems to me, perhaps, some of the people in this thread that have decided I'm less than human or whatever (opinions vary, and it's like water off an otters rear-end really) haven't dealt with a dead body.

You don't want it next to you.

I'm quite sure the BA crew acted admirably. I'd expect nothing less. I think their decision was wrong.

However, placing the remains in a seat is not - in my opinion - and I am entitled to said opinion contrary to popular belief - the correct thing to do. Yes the flight was full. What they should have done was place the remains in a lav. At least at that point it's away from the passengers, and whatever gasses or fluid it WILL expel won't be expelled next to a passenger.

Bottom line question: How many folks here would like to have had said expired passenger seated next to you? All this righteous pontificating would go right out the window . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Max777geek
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:20 pm

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:59 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 36):
I'm quite sure the BA crew acted admirably. I'd expect nothing less. I think their decision was wrong. However, placing the remains in a seat is not - in my opinion - and I am entitled to said opinion contrary to popular belief - the correct thing to do.

You can have a different opinion, but not two and such opposite, if you want people to understand what you mean, which I did not. Anyhow, the only question that came to my mind in reading about BA crew actions, is : why didn't they sat the daughter of the died woman in the seat beside and move the man to the back ?
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:00 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 36):
A medical emergency is not a death. You cannot compare apples to oranges Phil.

No its not a death but I'm not comparing apples and oranges, the pax had acute appendicitis and may well have died, very publicly. As I was seated by the crew phone the Purser was using to communicate with the cockpit I was party to half the conversations. It was agreed that, if the passenger expired (and the doctors were concerned the appendix would rupture), she would be left on the floor, covered by a blanket. I suppose one passenger could have been moved away to the seat vacated by the victim but the rest - say seven in close proximity would have had to live with it.

I've had to deal with death at events I've organised. Fortunately, the events being in hotels, I've had the luxury of being able to either clear the room or, in the case of the speaker who died, remove him backstage. The crew on the flight under discussion did not have that luxury - nor did the crew on my BA flights.

Given people's sensibilities both ways, having the body in a seat and upsetting a few squeamish passengers is, in my opinion, far less disruptive and upsetting than trying to stuff a corpse upright in a toilet. I'm sure BA would prefer to placate a few over precious pax than have to justify treating a corpse in an undignified manner to family, the other pax and the wider world.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting Max777geek (Reply 37):
Anyhow, the only question that came to my mind in reading about BA crew actions, is : why didn't they sat the daughter of the died woman in the seat beside and move the man to the back ?

Because it's irrelevent.


You don't leave an expired body in a pax seat in the cabin. That's my opinion. An expired body WILL expel fluids, and waste. Period.

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 35):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
Seems to me BA needs to get it's crap together with how to deal with onboard deaths.

I completely resent this remark. I don't believe that you have ANY idea of how complicated these things can be, especially as all cases are different.

Sure do Captain. As a police officer I run into different situations every day, dealing with life, sometimes death, and never are there any two alike.

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 35):
BA are coming in for an aweful lot of stick at the moment, sometimes justified, but most times not.

As for this, I have special like or dislike for BA. I've flown them, think they are a stellar airline. In this case - in my opinion - I think the incorrect decision was made.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7068
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:16 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 39):
I think the incorrect decision was made.

Agreed. They should have put the body in lav like you said, and that way could avoid many customer complaints and compensations if they had to give out.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
CPHGuard
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:58 pm

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:28 pm

I just don't get this.

Most here seems to think, that it was ok to move the deceased pax.

What would it help the dead pax, or the passenger that was travelling along, to be moved to F?

Why couldnt they stay in their original seats? It is not a very pleasant sigth, to have a dead passenger carried trough an airplane.

I understand the passenger in F was upset. I just don't see what good it does, to move a dead passenger.
 
cyclonic
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:18 am

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting Max777geek (Reply 37):
Seems to me, perhaps, some of the people in this thread that have decided I'm less than human or whatever (opinions vary, and it's like water off an otters rear-end really) haven't dealt with a dead body.

My own objection to this is that the opinions expressed lacked compassion and respect for the dead and their family, as well as well as understanding for the crew.

Right or wrong decision on their part, to bash the crew and the airline over such a touchy issue comes across as being heartless and thats what upset and saddens me the most.
Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
 
Max777geek
Topic Author
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:20 pm

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 39):
Quoting Max777geek (Reply 37):
Anyhow, the only question that came to my mind in reading about BA crew actions, is : why didn't they sat the daughter of the died woman in the seat beside and move the man to the back ?

Because it's irrelevent.

It seems to me a big difference fly sat next to somebody or behind him, expecially in business.
 
airtran717
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:48 am

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 4):
I would not expect anyone to be comfortable with that arrangement. What are the various airline policies regarding death on board? I want to make sure that I do not fly the ones that say "we prop them up in a seat in first or business class and let the families join them for the remainder of the trip...and oh by the way, if you are in that section you have to stay and talk to the police and the coroner after landing".

No Thanks!

I can't speak for any other carrier, but I know that FL's policy was to cover the individual with a blanket and attempt to make the deceased look merely asleep. Obviously the ones around them would know. But it's done to draw as little attention as possible until this can be dealt with on the ground. I've had one declared clinically dead onboard and by sheer miracle the pax came to and we hooked up the AED and portable O2, etc. During these issues the flight crew is finding the closest alternate and making an "emergency" landing. I think it's heartless and callous of you to make such comments in light of someone dying and their loved ones having to stare at this body for however long it takes to get on the ground and handle this properly. In the moment, your particular needs are of no concern to the crew. We have something a little more pressing to attend to than your connecting flight information or a drink. You would also probably ask about your connection while we are perfoming CPR on some too I'd bet. Sad. If it was one of your family, I would wager that you'd be expecting me to attend to you and the patient as much as possible. Discretion is the better part of valor... isn't that the saying? It's a very selfish world we live in now. And it's thoughts and comments that give common courtesy and humanity a bad name. You really should be ashamed.

717
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:43 pm

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 35):

Well said, BA777ER236.

It is all very well for us, sitting in the comfort of our armchairs at home or in the office and having had the advantage of being able to read all the pros and cons of the reaction to the cabin crew's handling of the situation, to say "it was wrong of the cabin crew" or even more ridiculously something along the lines "typical of BA's service". But put yourselves in the cabin crew's position, in an aircraft at 35,000ft and with probably +250 other passengers to care for, and add a death to this, can you still put your hand on your heart and say the cabin crew made the wrong decision?

And for those who think that the deceased should have been put in a toilet, please take a look at this. Was that the right decision, bearing in mind the backlash in this situation?

Of course, every airline should have a mini-mortuary (or whatever you wish to call the space to store a dead passenger) like SQ has for its SIN-NEW ultra long haul services, well would that not increase fares since valuable space otherwise available for pax use is being used up to cover a rare occurrence?

I would certainly not like a dead body to be seated next to me, but equally I would not like someone to die on my flight if I had the choice. If I was sitting next to the only spare seat(s) on the aircraft, whether I was a fat cat sipping my Don Perignon in First or a pax in Y, if the seat next to me was the only available place to put a dead pax, then I would just have to "deal with it".
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:57 pm

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 14):
If a living passenger in the next seat defecated in their pants and sat in it for 5-6 hours, you wouldn't mind at all? Let alone any concerns about diseases.

What are you talking about? How can you possibly compare someone that shit their pants with a person actually dying and being dead?


I personally would certainly mind having to be seat buddies with a corpse but i certainly would be a little more classy and considerate and keep my mouth shut about it.

To me it seems that some people are plain raised in the jungle..where were your parents when it was time for moral and social behavior education?
 
marcus380
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:15 pm

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:03 pm

A Fiend of mine is a FA at AF,
she is a cabin chief, and around one year ago, she had to handle a death on the plane

Immediately, the called a doctor but the guy died quickly, they had laid him on the floor in the galley
with closed curtains.

On long haul flight, every AF plane as a special bag for these cases with a zipper,
the death guy was inserted in the bag, and left in the galley until the end of the flight with closed curtains.

I think it was between Chicago and CDG

Marcus
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:26 pm

I really think the best way to handle the situation is land some place and remove the body. I understand the airline doesn't wanna spend a boat-load of money landing somewhere but they do so with medical emergencies. Problem with that is someone will have to shoulder the expense of ferrying the body to it's final destination.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
BA777ER236
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Pax Died On Ba Flight

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:29 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 39):
Sure do Captain. As a police officer I run into different situations every day, dealing with life, sometimes death, and never are there any two alike.

OK, it's a fair cop!

I think that you may be forgetting that I and the rest of my crew, do not deal with death on a regular basis as you apparently do. We are therefore likely to make decisions with more emotional stress involved than you do. I can assure you though, that much thought would have been put into what to do on the day.

Quoting Marcus380 (Reply 47):
On long haul flight, every AF plane as a special bag for these cases with a zipper,
the death guy was inserted in the bag, and left in the galley until the end of the flight with closed curtains.

Very interesting. I quite like the idea of a 'body bag'. However, we would never put a body in the galley because of food hygeine considerations on subsequent flights.

Cheers
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground

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