ContinentalEWR
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Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:26 am

Continental Airlines briefly operated a nonstop DC10-30 service from Newark to Santiago, which then became a one stop service via Lima. It was eventually dropped.

I would think CO could profitably operate to SLC from IAH.

Thoughts?
 
LawnDart
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Thread starter):
I would think CO could profitably operate to SLC from IAH.

I think Continental does profitably operate from IAH to SLC (Salt Lake City)...now, whether they can make any money to SCL (Santiago) is another question...
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 1):
I think Continental does profitably operate from IAH to SLC (Salt Lake City)...now, whether they can make any money to SCL (Santiago) is another question...

If they had the right timings for connections, I could see them doing it. But doesn't CO codeshare on DL's flight to SCL?

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WesternA318
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 1):
I think Continental does profitably operate from IAH to SLC (Salt Lake City)...

There is a pretty good profitability from SLC  bigthumbsup . SCL might be a different story though...
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 2):
If they had the right timings for connections, I could see them doing it. But doesn't CO codeshare on DL's flight to SCL?

Just checked the CO web-site and they do indeed!: Continental flight 4078 operated by Delta Air Lines.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:26 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 2):
But doesn't CO codeshare on DL's flight to SCL?

Yes, and they also codeshare on the CM service, so they offer two stop service from most points over one of their hubs and either PTY or ATL.

I think Chile is fairly well-served for its size. If one compares service to EZE with service to SCL, considering that B.A. is about 3 times the size of Santiago and Argentina is nearly three times the size of Chile (and putting aside the fact that for a good chunk of Argentina, it's easier to fly through SCL because of the EZE/AEP situation), you'll see that Chile is in pretty good shape. Assuming a 'conventional' schedule from North America, the aircraft also sits empty on the tarmac at SCL for 10 hours or so, significantly increasing the opportunity costs of any service.

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Thread starter):
I would think CO could profitably operate to SLC from IAH.

The problem with IAH is that it's not especially well-located for connections to South America from the eastern half of the country. Flying BOS-IAH-SCL instead of BOS-ATL-SCL adds almost 1000 miles of flight. Add that to the realities of the market discussed above and it just makes the situation worse. There's plenty of cargo to be flown from Chile to the States, but cargo alone does not a profitable flight make.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
The problem with IAH is that it's not especially well-located for connections to South America from the eastern half of the country. Flying BOS-IAH-SCL instead of BOS-ATL-SCL adds almost 1000 miles of flight. Add that to the realities of the market discussed above and it just makes the situation worse. There's plenty of cargo to be flown from Chile to the States, but cargo alone does not a profitable flight make.

One of the geographical oddities of the airline and air travel business is the proximity of countries and continents. Most of South America is along a longitude that puts places like Santiago in the Eastern (or is it even in the Atlantic?--dont have my NG Robinson projection World Map handy!!) Time Zone. This is the reason ATL is important to DL and MIA (not DFW) is important to AA for South American flights. While along with Argentina being the most developed South American country, Chile is a relatively small nation population wise at only 16.1 million (CIA World Fact Book 2007).
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:59 am

I can't see why it would not work. If AA can operate a non-stop out of DFW and one out of MIA, then CO should make it work out of IAH, which is slightly better as a connect point vs. DFW.

The traditional timings are redeyes both directions, meaning two aircraft are involved. However, one of the aircraft could be utilized at IAH for a West Coast RT and could be run as a thrugh trip to LAX each way and providing the quickest service between LAX and SCL, and direct, not a connection in LIM, DFW or MIA..

2 AIRCRAFT REQUIRED (762 OR 764)

LAX 1500 IAH 2013-2120 SCL 0725
SCL 2155 IAH 0625-0830 LAX 1019 4:41 GROUND TIME IN LAX

If the aircraft were a 764, it might be able to get in front of the LAX-HNL non-stop, which would require the SCL-IAH-LAX segments to run up 1:05 earlier and LAX-HNL to run 3:05 later. This would delay the HNL-GUM and HNL-NGO flights 1 to 2 hours. The benefit of this would be to free the 764 in LAX that makes up the 0805 HNL trip until 1500. The 0545 LAX-IAH and 1225 IAH-LAX could be upgraded to a 764, freeing a 738/739 in LAX until 1500.
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eastern023
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:17 pm

I think we will see UA returning to Chile before you see CO's golden blobe tails back at SCL (not SLC by the way!). I see SCL-IAD a better flight option rather than SCL-IAH. SkyTeam (or CO & DL) already codeshare the daily Delta flight ATL-SCL, even DL is thinking about a SCL-JFK non-stop in the near future. Star alliance needs more presence in South America.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
(or is it even in the Atlantic?--dont have my NG Robinson projection World Map handy!!) Time Zone.

It's Atlantic, and they do daylight savings time opposite of the way we do it in the northern hemisphere (for obvious reasons). So on the east coast, we actually go from the same time as Chile to two hours behind depending on time of year.
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IAD380
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:17 am

We are considering a trip to Chile later this year. I wish that UA would offer nonstop IAD-SCL flights so we could avoid connections. However, UA and CO have not flown to SCL in years. AA and DL are the only American airlines that still fly to Chile. One World seems to dominate traffic between the United States and Chile, with AA flying from DFW and MIA, and LA flying from MIA, JFK, and LAX. DL offers only one daily flight from ATL to SCL on behalf on Skyteam. The only way to get to SCL from the United States on Star Alliance is to fly north to YYZ!

Geographically, SCL is the end of the line. It is not a natural place to connect onwards to most other major cities. Chile has a smaller population than Argentina and Peru. This may explain why few American and European airlines fly to SCL, although Chile perhaps is the most prosperous country in South America.
 
ORDTerminal1
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:26 am

There is a cool picture of a UA 767 on its last flight from SCL. It says thanks for 15 years or something....kinda touching...AWWWWW
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
It's Atlantic, and they do daylight savings time opposite of the way we do it in the northern hemisphere (for obvious reasons). So on the east coast, we actually go from the same time as Chile to two hours behind depending on time of year.

You are correct, and Peru, Ecuador and Columbia are all on Eastern Time for the most part. SCL is essentially on a longitude that is east of BOS (@70W of Greenwich). Keep in mind that there is roughly 15 degrees in longitude to cover your average time zone (gerrymandered of course for cultural and economic ties or in the case of the Dominican Republic non-ties with Haiti!). All of South America is Eastern Time Zone eastward.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
There's plenty of cargo to be flown from Chile to the States, but cargo alone does not a profitable flight make.



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 7):
The traditional timings are redeyes both directions, meaning two aircraft are involved.

I tried looking for a couple of posts I recall being made in the past year about AA's DFW-SCL service that indicated cargo really does make that flight, IIRC, but couldn't find them. While I was searching though, I found this interesting thread by LipeGIG with passenger and cargo loads between the US and points in South America for August/06. I realize that's the beginning of low season, but AA was flying passenger load factors in the mid-60s on Chile flights, while other points in S.A were still experiencing loads in the 80s and 90s--but the difference in cargo tonnage was huge for Chile on a per flight basis than for most of the rest of S.A., especially on the SCL-MIA flight.

This is the thread: US-South America Aug/06 - Loads/Cargo (by LipeGIG Feb 26 2007 in Civil Aviation)

I realize one of the most controversial things you can say on A.net is "daylight flight", even as more and more airlines add them coming up out of S.A., but with the large air cargo market between Chile and the U.S., what would it take to make a daylight return from SCL work for CO so they'd only need to use one plane, instead of two? 20 tons per flight? More? I don't intend the answers to be a debate on if passengers want a daylight flight, but what it would take for the flight to be worthwhile for CO even with a low passenger load factor, and the corresponding change in the economics of only having to use one plane vs. two, by avoiding parking an aircraft at SCL all day.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):

I tried looking for a couple of posts I recall being made in the past year about AA's DFW-SCL service that indicated cargo really does make that flight, IIRC, but couldn't find them.

It's true cargo makes that flight, but without the partnership with LA, I don't think the flight would have any shot at all. It's only the connections and the cargo that make it work (and the fact that DFW is larger hub than IAH; in fact, it's the second largest airline hub in the world after DL at ATL).
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dutchjet
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:29 am

CO would like to get back to Santiago de Chile.....this time with a nonstop service out of IAH. CO's IAH-GRU/GIG service does very well, the recent IAH-EZE has exceeded all expectations, so an IAH-SCL service would also probably be a success. When CO served SCL in the past, as pointed out by the OP, a DC10 was used out of EWR: the aircraft was far too big for the route and EWR, in this case, was probably the wrong gateway. The flight then became a onestop fiasco flying EWR-LIM-SCL and passengers from IAH could join the flight in Lima....the entire operation did not work very well as passengers really did not like the onestop service. The 757 was also the wrong airplane for the route as cargo is a factor on services to deep South America......CO dropped the LIM-SCL segment when it could no longer offer seats on that segment to the local market.

CO will try again.....but like so many other potential routes, it will have to wait until CO has received delivery of a number of 787s....what I have heard is that the IAH-SCL route would be flown by the 762ER. Thus, 788/789s would take over routes now flown by the 767 (for example, IAH-EZE needs a bigger airplane) and the displaced 762ER would open up the new route to SCL. Time will tell.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:38 am

As usual, Dutch, you make complete sense. I wouldn't look for SCL prior to the 787's.

However, after ranking SCL vs. other options, one possibility would be to grab the EWR-DUB 762 and maybe look at the 3 day per week 762 IAH-AMS for the aircraft needed. The EWR-DUB operation may only be for the summer, but could go back to a 752 when a 738/739 delivery can replace one of the few domestic 752 routings.

Does anyone know how the 3 day per week IAH-AMS 762 is doing and why it's not daily? I know the aircraft is positioned to EWR some days, but can't see what it does there.
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WesternA318
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:42 am

Does anyone here think the 739ER we're getting might be used for EWR-Ireland flights?
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gigneil
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 17):
Does anyone here think the 739ER we're getting might be used for EWR-Ireland flights?

Nope. Insufficient range.

NS
 
dutchjet
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 17):
Does anyone here think the 739ER we're getting might be used for EWR-Ireland flights?

NO, NO, NO.......the 739ERs are domestic aircraft, with domestic first class, and really dont have the range for Ireland services.....the 739ER only has about two hundred or so more miles in range than a 738. Its funny, half of a.net is offended that CO sends 757s accorss the Atlantic on so many flights, and the other half wants CO to use 737s on transatlantic turns......CO's smallest airplane accorss the Atlantic will continue to be the 752. Do look for 739ERs on lots of transcon flights, freeing up 752s for additional transatlantic services.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 16):
However, after ranking SCL vs. other options, one possibility would be to grab the EWR-DUB 762 and maybe look at the 3 day per week 762 IAH-AMS for the aircraft needed. The EWR-DUB operation may only be for the summer, but could go back to a 752 when a 738/739 delivery can replace one of the few domestic 752 routings

I heard that the reason EWR-DUB is flying with the 762 is based upon the new EWR-ATH service also with the 762....the routes ""balance"" eachother from a scheduling and operational point of view. To be very honest, I dont know exactly what that means, but it sounds good?! May you can help me out here?

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 16):
Does anyone know how the 3 day per week IAH-AMS 762 is doing and why it's not daily? I know the aircraft is positioned to EWR some days, but can't see what it does there.

Check the EWR-CDG schedules, on a day to day basis, and you may find your answer....the ""third"" EWR-CDG flight sometimes runs with a 752, other days with a 762 (the other two depatures are a 772 and a 752 daily). That could have something to do with the 3X weekly IAH-AMS 762......as to why that flight is 3X per week, I dont know....will guess that its simply supply and demand......Also note that there is some flexibility in the 767 schedule at EWR....this summer expect lots of equipment swapping on a day to day basis to match supply and demand on transatlantic services...for example, some of the EWR-LGW and EWR-CDG flights scheduled with a 752 will be running with 762 equipment or 764 equipment, look for some surprise 772 upgrades, etc. And some downgrades, EWR- FRA has recently be running with a mix of 762, 764 and 777 service although its officially a 764 route over the winter.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:04 am

The 739ER has less range than a 738 unless the extra fuel tanks are installed and I doubt CO would add fuel tanks to an aircraft they plan to use transcon.


Fuel capacity 738: 6875 gallons fuel capacity (assume 739ER same) With 2 aux tanks 7837 gallons

Max TOW 738 174000Lbs. 739ER 187700Lbs. (I believe it's beefed up gear)

Range 738 3060 miles, 739ER 2700*, (3200 with 2 aux tanks)
* Boeing shows this in high density, single class layout, so it's undoubtedly higher with two class configuration

Engines: both aircraft have CFM56-7 with 27,300 Lbs. thrust.

At MTOW the 739ER should lumber down the runway a little more than the 738 and probably have a slightly slower climb rate.
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:07 am

The 739ER has less range than a 738 unless the extra fuel tanks are installed and I doubt CO would add fuel tanks to an aircraft they plan to use transcon.


Fuel capacity 738: 6875 gallons fuel capacity (assume 739ER same) With 2 aux tanks 7837 gallons

Max TOW 738 174000Lbs. 739ER 187700Lbs. (I believe it's beefed up gear)

Range 738 3060 nat. miles, 739ER 2700 nat, miles*, (3200 nat. miles with 2 aux tanks)
* Boeing shows this in high density, single class layout, so it's undoubtedly higher with two class configuration
EWR-SFO 2229 NM.
EWR-SNN 2690 NM
EWR-DUB 2774 NM

Engines: both aircraft have CFM56-7 with 27,300 Lbs. thrust.

At MTOW the 739ER should lumber down the runway a little more than the 738 and probably have a slightly slower climb rate.
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EddieDude
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 10):
UA and CO have not flown to SCL in years. AA and DL are the only American airlines that still fly to Chile.

I recall that about a year ago or so, someone opened a thread about UA and SCL, and the conclusion was, if I am not mistaken, that for the time being LA, AA and DL cover the market pretty well. Should CO or UA attempt to return to SCL, it is possible we would witness yield-dilution, so I guess it is safe to speculate that none of them will go back to SCL any time soon.
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IAD380
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22):
Should CO or UA attempt to return to SCL, it is possible we would witness yield-dilution, so I guess it is safe to speculate that none of them will go back to SCL any time soon.

Yes, you are right. However, it would be nice if there were flights from SCL to other cities in the United States, especially IAD, ORD, or IAH. Hopefully, market demand will grow, and one day airlines will find it profitable to fly these new routes.
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:28 am

A market I could see working really well for CO would be IAH- VVI Santa Cruz Bolivia-SCL or GIG.

Santa Cruz is a booming city and energy center for Bolivia. Houston is the center of the global energy industry. There must be significant demand, especially business class and cargo. I believe this route would also be feasible with a 757.
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
You are correct, and Peru, Ecuador and Columbia are all on Eastern Time for the most part.

Columbia, South Carolina.
Colombia, South America

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LAXdude1023
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 24):
Santa Cruz is a booming city and energy center for Bolivia. Houston is the center of the global energy industry. There must be significant demand, especially business class and cargo. I believe this route would also be feasible with a 757.

I agree. IAH-Boliva is somthing that could be done. There hasnt been much expansion from IAH in recent times, just EWR. I think another go at IAH-South America is in order. Look at IAH-EZE, it does exceptionally well. IAH needs to be CO's go to place for South America, not EWR. The same way Europe and Asia are done from EWR.

On an unrealated note, does anyone know if KE is still interested in IAH?
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COEI2007
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 16):
However, after ranking SCL vs. other options, one possibility would be to grab the EWR-DUB 762 and maybe look at the 3 day per week 762 IAH-AMS for the aircraft needed



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):
I heard that the reason EWR-DUB is flying with the 762 is based upon the new EWR-ATH service also with the 762....the routes ""balance"" eachother from a scheduling and operational point of view. To be very honest, I dont know exactly what that means, but it sounds good?! May you can help me out here?

I think it had something to do with the block times?
 
jfk777
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:17 am

Houston to Santiago de Chile would make good sense for Continental. With EZE and GRU working so well this is the next obvious destination down there. Think of all the fresh salmon the Chilians have needing to get to the restaurants of Texas and the USA.
 
IAD380
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 24):
A market I could see working really well for CO would be IAH- VVI Santa Cruz Bolivia-SCL or GIG. . . . There must be significant demand, especially business class and cargo. I believe this route would also be feasible with a 757.

CO would probably pattern a route from IAH to VVI after the "dedicate" service that its Skyteam partner, AF, offers from CDG to small, remote, and impoverished oil centers in Africa, such as Malabo and Port Harcourt. At most, CO would operate this flight twice a week on a narrow body aircraft. I doubt it would attract many travellers outside of the oil industry. LB and AA are only airlines that fly between the United States and Bolivia, and I am not sure that either airline finds these routes very profitable. I don't think that onward service from VVI to SCL or GIG would attract many passengers, assuming CO could obtain fifth freedom rights on these sectors.
 
eastern023
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:28 am

Still is beyond me why UA left Chile. Or at least why is it not fying IAD-SCL even on a tag-on from EZE. SCL-EZE are now under fierce competition LA v/s GOL but those are the only players (AC almost non existant and AF pulled out since operating SCL-CDG non-stop these days) I say wait until waters calm down and then send the bird from IAD to SCL via EZE. As far as MVD goes, make ORD-MVD via EZE. At EZE pax from IAD or ORD should be able to get on planes to SCL or MVD. What does everybody think?

SCL-IAH will have a straight competition from AA to DFW. I have taken this flight many times and it is always packed. Again, I would love to see CO return to Chile, but not before DL opens JFK-SCL (Operated Non-Stop years ago by LA now via LIM) and maybe UA returns to SCL form IAD. I think is going to be a while..........
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IAD380
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 30):
I say wait until waters calm down and then send the bird from IAD to SCL via EZE.

I, too, would like UA to resume flights from IAD to SCL, either nonstop, or via EZE, or even LIM. Currently, UA's flight from IAD to EZE continues on to MVD. If I remember correctly, UA no longer flies from ORD to EZE. GRU is the only South American destination that UA flies to from ORD.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 30):
Or at least why is it not fying IAD-SCL even on a tag-on from EZE

Low yields. RG could do it from GRU. Why have it costing you money if you can sell it via GRU to the passengers that needed almost cost-free.

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 30):
(AC almost non existant and AF pulled out since operating SCL-CDG non-stop these days)

AF will come back during our winter. 5 non-stop, 2 via EZE, IIRC.


Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 30):
As far as MVD goes, make ORD-MVD via EZE

ORD is seasonal. And it's really a crappy year-round flight. Last flight EZE-MVD with UA will operate JUN06.

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 30):
SCL-IAH will have a straight competition from AA to DFW. I have taken this flight many times and it is always packed.

Don't think this is going to happen very soon, especially with the lack of metal CO is suffering.

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dutchjet
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 32):

Don't think this is going to happen very soon, especially with the lack of metal CO is suffering.

Gastón - The MD11junkie

As I said above........

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
CO will try again.....but like so many other potential routes, it will have to wait until CO has received delivery of a number of 787s....what I have heard is that the IAH-SCL route would be flown by the 762ER. Thus, 788/789s would take over routes now flown by the 767 (for example, IAH-EZE needs a bigger airplane) and the displaced 762ER would open up the new route to SCL.
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:56 am

Just a note on daylight northbound flights, I took one of the early AA flights in 1990 from SCL on a SCL-LIM-MIA routing (757). Watching the Andes slide below you and the terrain of the equatorial area of South America was cool.

With a cnxn at MIA to LAX, it was a long day as I stayed up most of the flights.

What amazed me then was the amount of cargo on the SCL-LIM portion, and the plane was packed with Peruvians that had been shopping in Chile. Simply unbelieveable!

Anyay, if you ever get a chance to take a daylight flight up the western side of South America, do it.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:28 am

While CO does stand a chance of making IAH-SCL work, the largest region for S. America to US traffc is to the eastern US. Western S. America isn't quite as out of the way as Eastern S. America but Chile is a smaller market which makes it harder to make it work. As the SCL market grows, though, less and less direct routes can work.

There is no doubt that AA and DL do well in SCL because of the careful control of capacity. DL operated 2 flights/day last US winter on some days but replaced it with a 764 as soon as those aircraft became available in a BE config. AA has a partnership that allows it to put its code on almost all of the US-Chile flights so they have every reason to do well. Yes, cargo does well from Chile. Not only do I see salmon that I know flew up but I also see produce as well. The 762 will be at a disadvantage for CO in that it has much less room for cargo than AA and DL's 763s and 4s have

[Edited 2007-03-22 01:29:23]
 
WesternA318
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 35):
The 762 will be at a disadvantage for CO in that it has much less room for cargo than AA and DL's 763s and 4s have

If CO sent in the 752 or 3...that could possibly work..or even the 739ER...
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JDAirCEO
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:46 am

Is UA really stopping EZE-MVD? If they are, is it seasonal?

They have many loyal Uruguaians, and an office in downtown MVD.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 26):

I agree. IAH-Boliva is somthing that could be done.

Given the Morales administration's stance toward MNCs in general and American corporations in particular, I don't think there's that much oil traffic lately. Anyone remember the Pacific LNG debacle?

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 29):
I don't think that onward service from VVI to SCL or GIG would attract many passengers, assuming CO could obtain fifth freedom rights on these sectors.

There's not that much air traffic between Chile and Bolivia. Keep in mind that the LA LPB service has to make pit stops in ANF and IQQ to make money.


One other thing we haven't discussed is the fact that there are Chileans that have a lot of money and do fly to the States (Chile has a lot of income inequality). By and large, those folks are going to MIA or NYC. CO can't help them much.
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dutchjet
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:21 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 35):
The 762 will be at a disadvantage for CO in that it has much less room for cargo than AA and DL's 763s and 4s have

But the 762ER has a big J cabin and less Y seats to fill which could lead to higher yeilds and the 762ER does haul a reasonable amount of cargo (of course not as much as its bigger brothers, the 763 and 764), so we will just have to wait and see how all of this plays out in the future. CO tends to do a good job with its approach of flying smaller airplanes on some routes to keep firm control over yeilds and loads......DL has the power of ATL to keep its airplanes filled and can use bigger aircraft. Different strategies, both seem to be working at the moment, and thats a good thing. My opinion is that CO will do fine in this growing market if and when it gets back to SCL, and CO's presence will have little impact on AA or DL, there will be enough traffic for all of the players.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 38):
One other thing we haven't discussed is the fact that there are Chileans that have a lot of money and do fly to the States (Chile has a lot of income inequality). By and large, those folks are going to MIA or NYC. CO can't help them much.

While FLorida tends to be the destination of choice for many Latin American visitors to the US, travel is not limited to MIA or MCO; in any case, CO can get pax to just about any destination in North America via IAH and concerning NYC, which you mention, dont forget that CO is a powerhouse in the NYC area with its EWR hub. I would not be surprised to see the proposed flight routed SCL-IAH-EWR (similiar to the EZE service).
 
atlaaron
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:59 am

Poll: Will CO ever return to Chile?
 
eastern023
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 40):
Poll: Will CO ever return to Chile?

No. As I said it one more time. We will see the United now white U tailed 767 back on the SCL tarmac before we see the golden globe tails of Continental back.
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diesel33
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:11 pm

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 41):
No. As I said it one more time. We will see the United now white U tailed 767 back on the SCL tarmac before we see the golden globe tails of Continental back.

In the past few years United has been consistently closing its South American stations, how can you be so certain that UA will service Santiago de Chile again?
 
eastern023
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting Diesel33 (Reply 42):
In the past few years United has been consistently closing its South American stations, how can you be so certain that UA will service Santiago de Chile again?

Your statement is true. UA has been closing stations in South America since 2001, however they are after yields and making money (I agree, this is why they are closing MVD this June). If SCL becomes profitable, they would go back. SCL has seen an incredible hike on their passenger traffic and cargo, specially in the USA bound route.

Now, I believe there are enough players in the market right now. LA & AA and their little code share monopoly game and DL. DL, by the way, has expressed interest on developing SCL-JFK non-stop (Left by LA after 9/11 done via LIM these days). CO actually code shares with the DL flight every night.

UA has developed IAD to the point that can sustain trafic from GRU and EZE. Now, as far as plane usage, with the tag on to MVD axed, the 763 is gonna seat at EZE all day. UA has looked into giving that airplane another use. SCL could be a good choice (just my opinion, not from my sources at UA). Also true is that the EZE-SCL market is now very competitive with GOL and LAN trying to outdo each other leaving no other competition (AF & AC are no real players)

A potential CO flight SCL-IAH would see a fierce competition from the OneWorld buddies (LA & AA) and their SCL-DFW gig (Which by the way does really good overall), besides there's already SkyTeam mate DL in the market trying to fight OneWorld. It would make more sense UA getting back in the market than CO.

I hope this makes sense, but again, is my humble opinion (And a little bit of inside information)
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LipeGIG
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:06 pm

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 24):
A market I could see working really well for CO would be IAH- VVI Santa Cruz Bolivia-SCL or GIG.

GIG needs a non-stop from IAH ! On September/06, the last info available ,(i will try to post a new thread with US-South America numbers shortly) 60% of pax and almost 50% of cargo from IAH were to Rio and this is a one stop flight (also expect a unknown number of connections from EWR flight). Imagine if CO runs a non-stop considering that DL take some market from them and they could attract connections also. It's a shame the biggest off-shore oil markets in South America does not keep a non-stop service to Houston !

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 40):
Poll: Will CO ever return to Chile?

I doubt, South America is not UA priority.

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LAXdude1023
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 44):
GIG needs a non-stop from IAH ! On September/06, the last info available ,(i will try to post a new thread with US-South America numbers shortly) 60% of pax and almost 50% of cargo from IAH were to Rio and this is a one stop flight (also expect a unknown number of connections from EWR flight). Imagine if CO runs a non-stop considering that DL take some market from them and they could attract connections also. It's a shame the biggest off-shore oil markets in South America does not keep a non-stop service to Houston !

I couldnt agree more! I think IAH-GIG would do very well. I know IAH-GRU does very well as is and some of those pax would be continueing to GIG. Im not sure about the numbers so much, but IAH needs service to both SCL and GIG. I personally believe it will be a matter of time and probabaly when the 787 comes out.
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LipeGIG
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:25 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 45):
I couldnt agree more! I think IAH-GIG would do very well. I know IAH-GRU does very well as is and some of those pax would be continueing to GIG. Im not sure about the numbers so much, but IAH needs service to both SCL and GIG. I personally believe it will be a matter of time and probabaly when the 787 comes out.

The numbers are from DOT, filled i believe by CO:

IAH-GIG - 2824 pax
IAH-GRU - 2480 pax
GIG-IAH - 2961 pax
GRU-IAH - 2556 pax

Just to compare, AA JFK-GIG takes 1923 pax while JFK-GRU 4133.

And we have to keep in mind, most connections boards on Sao Paulo.

I believe a IAH-SCL also can be a winner. The problem is the way CO and UA looks for South America. They have other priorities.

Felipe
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eastern023
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:00 am

If CO decides to re-launch SCL I guess it would be better than sitting around for UA to make the move.
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worldtraveler
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 39):
CO's presence will have little impact on AA or DL, there will be enough traffic for all of the players.

fair statement.

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 43):
DL, by the way, has expressed interest on developing SCL-JFK non-stop

which could easily work as 3-4 flghts/week market.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 45):
I couldnt agree more! I think IAH-GIG would do very well.

GIG makes far more sense to decouple from GRU than in starting SCL. For now, though CO has a shortage of widebody aircraft and it will take a couple of years before they are "back in the black" again w/ respect to fleet. And remember that DL is breathing down CO's neck in NYC so CO needs to use every 787 it can to maintain an advantage over DL in NYC. DL will quickly reach parity w/ CO to Europe, S. America, and the Middle East but it will take some time before DL can touch CO to Asia. CO needs to use its 787s to keep a very respectable lead over DL from Asia to NYC.
 
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drerx7
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RE: Will Continental Ever Return To Chile?

Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 36):
If CO sent in the 752 or 3...that could possibly work..or even the 739ER...

No it wouldn't work for many many reasons.
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