siromega
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LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:06 am

From www.reviewjournal.com

Quote:

'Right turn' procedure starts tomorrow
A last-minute attempt by the city of Las Vegas to prevent a new departure path for flights out of McCarran International Airport failed today.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the city's request for an emergency stay, said a spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration.

The new route will start at 6 a.m. Tuesday, sending about 200 planes a day on the "right turn" procedure over northwest Las Vegas, FAA spokesman Ian Gregor said.

The city's broader legal challenge against the plan is still proceeding in court.

The new and modified departure procedures I see on Airnav are Oveto Three and STAAV Three. I'll be listening to the feed from Liveatc.net to see how many planes actually end up using the right turn. And its a shame the airspace fixes arent loaded into airnav's database, I'd like to plot them on a map to see exactly where they're suppoed to be at what elevations.
 
HPLASOps
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:45 pm

Congratulations. I'll be playing golf in Summerlin tomorrow afternoon, and I'll be waving and smiling as the planes go by overhead.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
SEAdomer787
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:57 pm

How is this any different than what was done prior? I used to live in Vegas and every flight I took off 25R (at least to the east coast) would fly a similar path. Is it just a tighter turn?
 
siromega
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:22 pm

No, after 9/11 the right turn was abolished. Traffic has finally increased to the point to where they needed to bring it back. Was attempted to be stopped by Summerlin NIMBYs (which I'm sort of one of, though I'm generally far enough west that I dont hear commercial traffic - I usually hear helicopters and props headed out over Red Rock).
 
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eta unknown
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:56 am

I must be a NIMBY neighbor to SirOmega- I live West of I-215 and don't anticipate hearing anything as the aircraft will be so high up when they reach that part of the Summerlin area. The helicopters do piss me off though!
 
apodino
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 3):
No, after 9/11 the right turn was abolished. Traffic has finally increased to the point to where they needed to bring it back. Was attempted to be stopped by Summerlin NIMBYs (which I'm sort of one of, though I'm generally far enough west that I dont hear commercial traffic - I usually hear helicopters and props headed out over Red Rock).

I flew from LAS to ORD on a redeye flight about 9 months ago, and we definitely did a right turn out of LAS. I was expecting us to turn left to fly the TRALR departure, but we didn't, and it surprised the hell out of me.

Quoting SirOmega (Thread starter):
The new and modified departure procedures I see on Airnav are Oveto Three and STAAV Three.

The Oveto three is not a modified procedure at all. Its been as published for a while. The latest Jeppessen page on it is dated January of this year, but it also said there were no changes, meaning the change was to the flip side of the page. Not sure how long this procedure has been in place, but this is probably what I flew on that aforementioned ORD flight. The STAAV RNAV departure however, is considerably different from the old procedure. The thing is, there are alot of eastbound flights which flie the COWBY departure instead of the TRALR departure, and those will still make the left turn. I am not sure whether TRALR or STAAV will be filed for DVC or BCE as both are still active, but I also think it depends on which runway is being used. If they are using the 7's, which is rare, they can fly straight out.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:47 am

A major, and possibly subtle change between the STAAV2 and the STAAV3 is that STAAV is now 18NM from where it used be. There was a 56-day cycle change effective on March 15th, and it usually seems to take airnav.com a few days to get all the new stuff in...
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siromega
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:12 am

Ah, does the FAA have any place to download the fix lat/long data? I actually plotted STAAV on a map and it was up in northtown. I should do a google maps of the points and paths used for the right turn.. hmmm..
 
OPNLguy
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 7):
Ah, does the FAA have any place to download the fix lat/long data?

There's probably one out there somewhere. There's no lat/on the plate, but the new STAAV is about the MLF R-199/155.1, if that helps...

I'll see if I can find a new lat/lon when I get some time later on..
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apodino
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 7):
Ah, does the FAA have any place to download the fix lat/long data? I actually plotted STAAV on a map and it was up in northtown. I should do a google maps of the points and paths used for the right turn.. hmmm..

Try www.airnav.com. Because of the GPS on Mircosoft Flight Simulator not being able to update with each airac cycle, I often went to this site for coordinates that I could program, so that I could fly RNAV departures out of LAS, ATL, and DFW.

According to this website, the coordinates for STAAV are 36-19-00.000N 115-08-34.000W.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting Apodino (Reply 9):
Try www.airnav.com.

I know about the site, but the issue was whether airnav,com had been updated for the 56-day cycle or not. and whether their lat/lon for STAAV is the old one, or the new one. I've seen them take as long as a week to update sometimes...
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OPNLguy
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:23 am

[quote=Apodino,reply=9]According to this website, the coordinates for STAAV are 36-19-00.000N 115-08-34.000W./quote]

That looks like the old one, meaning airnav has indeed not updated yet.

I went here:
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...c/publications/atpubs/LID/L_PS.htm

..and the new STAAV effective 3/15 0901z shows:

STAAV NV
36-12-01.1600N 114-46-58.2400W
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siromega
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:24 am

Well that was quick...

For all you LAS folk, this is the track for STAAV Three depature. I also put the Oveto marker on there too. You can see STAAV way out there to the east - near Lake Mead NRA.

http://24.234.196.227/gmaps/rt/rightturn.html

If I remember right, I got into an argument with another A.netter about where the planes would turn right. It appears from my map that they do in fact go over the house in which I grew up, in The Lakes (near DI and Ft Apache).
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:23 pm

i was wondering why i was seeing WN and HP turning right this morning when i was checkin out flightaware.com this morning. i figured they woulda got in trouble for it.

Quoting SEAdomer787 (Reply 2):
How is this any different than what was done prior? I used to live in Vegas and every flight I took off 25R (at least to the east coast) would fly a similar path. Is it just a tighter turn?

the people who lived in Summerlin got "upset" that planes were flying over their houses and somehow got the FAA to ban aircraft from turning right.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 3):
No, after 9/11 the right turn was abolished.

that reason is incorrect....they abolished the right turn in 2005 (or around that time)

[Edited 2007-03-21 05:24:06]
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mikesairways
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:38 pm

I was in LAS this morning and saw a quick bit on the news about it...just landed from my LAS-SJC flight and we did not turn right - took the normal (yet very bumpy) left turn out.
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HPLASOps
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RE: LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:36 pm

Quoting Mikesairways (Reply 14):
I was in LAS this morning and saw a quick bit on the news about it...just landed from my LAS-SJC flight and we did not turn right - took the normal (yet very bumpy) left turn out.

Well, I don't think it was a requirement for flights to turn right off 25R. I was listening carefully on ramp control freq today and I noticed that they were asking each flight what their intended heading would be, as if they were trying to get a survey of exactly how many flights were going to use the right turn. Perhaps your captain decided to use the left turn vector, or perhaps was not aware of the change since it only occured this morning.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe