FATFlyer
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Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:36 am

The DOT just filed approval granting Virgin America's certificate with conditions:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=461049&docketid=23307

The conditions include:
"**Requiring that the disinterested directors on the Virgin America board (that is, U.S. citizens) separately approve of the appointment or replacement of the trustee of Virgin Group’s shareholdings.

**Amending the voting trust agreement to require that the Trustee vote its shares proportionally to the other shareholders as to any matter that, in the opinion of the U.S. investor directors, creates a conflict of interest between the interests of Virgin Group and that of U.S. shareholders.

**Modifying the Virgin Trademark License Agreement to remove certain geographic and operational restrictions on Virgin America and the requirement that it pay royalties to the Virgin Group should the applicant conduct operations independent of the Virgin name.

**Confirming that the current CEO has terminated employment with the applicant within 90 days of the certificate being issued and any follow-on consultancy within 180 days following termination of employment.

**Submitting copies of all executed and signed agreements prior to certification.

**Reporting to the Department in advance if any additional loans (or other debt funding) are to be provided to it from the Virgin Group."

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p89/461049.doc

[Edited 2007-03-20 18:46:34]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
NYC777
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:40 am

Does that mean that Virgin America is cleared to fly? Are these conditions acceptable to SRB?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
hawaijahaz
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:41 am

Wow. Just when I had thought that Virgin America was all but dead. It'll be good to have options when travelling from SFO for me.

P
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:42 am

Starting to hit the news media now:
Virgin America gets tentative approval to launch U.S. service
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...0-virgin-america-cleared-fly_N.htm
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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OA260
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:43 am

Brilliant , good news at last , I really hope to fly F class on their AC as soon as they start.
 
IADLHR
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:46 am

I am not too surprised. I always felt that if an openskies was reached and slots made available at LHR there was a 90% plus chance it would be approved.

I wonder if, for this to happen, that the UK signaled they would not veto the openskies at the EU meeting this week.
 
ScottB
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Thread starter):
Confirming that the current CEO has terminated employment with the applicant within 90 days of the certificate being issued and any follow-on consultancy within 180 days following termination of employment.

Well, it looks like DOT is going to call Virgin America's bluff on terminating Fred Reid...very interesting.

Quoting FATFlyer (Thread starter):
Modifying the Virgin Trademark License Agreement to remove certain geographic and operational restrictions on Virgin America and the requirement that it pay royalties to the Virgin Group should the applicant conduct operations independent of the Virgin name.

This seems to be going farther than what Virgin America has said that Virgin Group was willing to do vis a vis the licensing agreement.
 
JayDub
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:52 am

Good for them...looking forward to flying them.

Quoting FATFlyer (Thread starter):
**Confirming that the current CEO has terminated employment with the applicant within 90 days of the certificate being issued and any follow-on consultancy within 180 days following termination of employment

I'm a bit confused...does this mean Fred Reid is gone? While they're at it, maybe they should show Don Carty the door, too...

[Edited 2007-03-20 18:53:16]
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
antonovman
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 5):
I always felt that if an openskies was reached and slots made available at LHR

And how are slots going to be made available when LHR is running at full capacity ?
 
IADLHR
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:12 am

I thought Carty had become a US citizen years ago. Dont know what the status of Reid is, but think for sure Carty is now a US citizen.
 
toltommy
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
Brilliant , good news at last , I really hope to fly F class on their AC as soon as they start.

I believe their business plan calls for an all coach cabin, similar to JetBlue. You may be waiting awhile for that F seat.
 
timboflier215
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 5):
I wonder if, for this to happen, that the UK signaled they would not veto the openskies at the EU meeting this week

I doubt the UK Govt would base their decisions on something as big as open skies on whether or not SRB can have a carrier operating domestically in the States, especially as that carrier is mostly owned, anc controlled by, US interests.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 9):
Dont know what the status of Reid is

Reid is US, the issue became that he was hired by Sir Richard and thus is considered to be too closely influenced by a non-US citizen.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
ScottB
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 10):
I believe their business plan calls for an all coach cabin, similar to JetBlue.

Nope. Two rows of first class seating, if you look at their videos. I'm not big on the white leather seats.
 
toltommy
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
Nope. Two rows of first class seating, if you look at their videos. I'm not big on the white leather seats.

Just looked at the website, I stand corrected. Was hoping to get back here before someone caught my mistake! I could swear that the original model was coach only. That white leather won't last 6 months. It's going to be a nightmare to keep clean!
 
ARGinLON
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 11):
I doubt the UK Govt would base their decisions on something as big as open skies on whether or not SRB can have a carrier operating domestically in the States, especially as that carrier is mostly owned, anc controlled by, US interests.

But VS's position may change after this approval...It's incredible BAs power over the British Gov.
 
osiris30
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:08 am

I hope they agree to the terms and start flying, mostly to see if they can make a go of it. I was really bothered by how certain carriers hid behind laws to protect themselves rather than competing for the business. I don't blame them mind you, it's business, but I don't exactly respect that sort of running to mommy attitude.

Go Virgin America is about all I can say. Afterall what good is a free market that's not free :/
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
searpqx
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:23 am

I still question their business plan and choice of markets, but I'm glad they've now got the opportunity to prove it out. I'd be more than happy to be shown wrong! Big grin
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
iflykpdx
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:24 am

I really hope this ushers in a new standard of service. I've always been hoping for features in Y that VA is touting, and hopefully it will do something to pressure other carries to add them as well.
Airport Management - UND
 
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N328KF
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting JayDub (Reply 7):
I'm a bit confused...does this mean Fred Reid is gone? While they're at it, maybe they should show Don Carty the door, too...

WSJ reported that one of the conditions was specifically that Fred Reid must be fired due to his buddy-buddy status with SRB.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 19):
WSJ reported that one of the conditions was specifically that Fred Reid must be fired due to his buddy-buddy status with SRB.

As I posted above in the thread starter, the DOT said,
**Confirming that the current CEO has terminated employment with the applicant within 90 days of the certificate being issued and any follow-on consultancy within 180 days following termination of employment.

In other words they want Reid gone 90 days after the actual certificate issuing, which will be in about a month, assuming no new arguments or protests occur. The DOT is then allowing him to be a consultant to the airine for another 6 months before cutting all ties.

The Docket is now in .pdf at
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf100/461049_web.pdf
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
S12PPL
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:17 am

Crow anyone?

VA will fly after all!

Great to hear!!
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worldtraveler
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:18 am

It is pretty certain that Virgin will accept the requirements and that Virgin America will launch. I’m sure they’re trying very hard to get in the air for at least part of the summer if they can at all do it.

This move also effectively leaves BA as the only “injured party” in the US – EU Open Skies plan. Virgin’s ability to develop new transatlantic flights to non-UK cities and feed them w/ intra-US flies is a huge advantage for them – and an advantage they want to develop before other carriers are able to match them.

United will be the most significantly impacted by Virgin America with AA a close second. Given that they are also going to be impacted by Open Skies, there are some significant changes coming in the US airline industry.
 
ARGinLON
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 22):
This move also effectively leaves BA as the only “injured party” in the US – EU Open Skies plan. Virgin’s ability to develop new transatlantic flights to non-UK cities and feed them w/ intra-US flies is a huge advantage for them – and an advantage they want to develop before other carriers are able to match them.

I hardly believe any major European carrier will go and start operating from other European countries to the US (Say VS flying MAD-LAX)

VS statement (about starting operations from other European markets) in my opinion was to support the UK in its campaign to rule out Open skies. If VS really wanted to start Europe-US flights, they would have done it already by launching a VS subsidiary in other European countries.

I think VS will have other priorities with open skies like LHRIAH or LHRDFW
 
Lono
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling He

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 21):
Crow anyone?

VA will fly after all!

Great to hear!!

Yes where are all the Nay-sayers...???
I can't wait to see what cities they will fly to... Hope SEA is one of them......
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
steeler83
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 24):
I can't wait to see what cities they will fly to... Hope SEA is one of them......

A little while back, somebody posted a list of cities Virgin America hopes to serve within 5 years or so of start-up...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:26 am

I hope they start up PDX right away. I'd love to see UA, AS, and WN have to compete with VA....Airfares might actually get reasonable, too.

My dad and I want to head to OAK on April 26th to watch Oregon State's baseball team play at Stanford, and my aunt got free tickets to the Mariners vs. A's game on the 27th....

AS is $170
WN is $178

It used to be around $130 on a regular basis...  Sad
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
planecrazy2
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling He

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:27 am

It's about time! If they fail they fail, at least they'll get a chance to prove themselves.
United Airlines - Worldwide Service
 
seattleflyer
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 24):
I can't wait to see what cities they will fly to... Hope SEA is one of them......

This just posted to VA's website today...

http://www.virginamerica.com/informa...news/story_template.php?article=36

Virgin America said it hoped to receive final DOT approval in anticipation of a mid-summer launch from its base at San Francisco International Airport to New York’s John F. Kennedy Airport. Four additional cities – Los Angeles, San Diego, Las Vegas and Washington D.C. – are planned to be added within nine months of the company's first flight.

Unfortunately, it looks like it will be a while longer before they make it to Seattle...Darn! Why San Diego before Seattle, I don't understand that one!
 
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SANFan
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:44 am

As a SANFan, I'm excited about this (and figured all along they should and would eventually get their certificate) and as SAN was announced as one of their first 6 cities (back at the end of January):
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070131/dcw021.html?.v=94
I look forward to seeing the Red Bird at Lindbergh by or during early summer!

I'm still not sure what their route structure will be (if in fact their hub will be SFO and spokes will be at LAX, SAN, LAS, WAS and JFK or if they will fly transcons from the 4 western cities to the 2 east coast stations or what) but with WN on the doorstep of SFO and B6 already inside the door, it looks to be a very exciting next couple of months!

I wonder when they will start recalling their a/c from SkyBus is it? That will be interesting to watch as well.

bb
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:51 am

Well it's about time! With DJ signing an order for 7 773's today to start their long haul services to North America it seems the Virgin name is having a good day!
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
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SANFan
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 29):
I look forward to seeing the Red Bird at Lindbergh by or during early summer!



Quoting SeattleFlyer (Reply 28):
Four additional cities ? Los Angeles, San Diego, Las Vegas and Washington D.C. ? are planned to be added within nine months of the company's first flight.

OK, so I'll have to wait until the end of the year to see the RedBirds landing at Lindbergh -- I can do that!

(I have to get going right now, otherwise I would be happy to engage you in your question, 'Flyer:

Quoting SeattleFlyer (Reply 28):
Why San Diego before Seattle, I don't understand that one!

Best of Luck to you, Virgin! It's gonna be a very busy few months coming up.  Smile

bb
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:00 am

well about frickkin time!!
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Lono
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting SeattleFlyer (Reply 28):

Unfortunately, it looks like it will be a while longer before they make it to Seattle

I was just reading their web page and noticed this....Kind of interesting the first city they mention is SEA.... Hmmmmm no wonder the boys at AS are concerned....


Our first route is from San Francisco to New York-round trip, of course. Beyond that, we're thinking initially about cities like Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Denver, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Dallas, Austin, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston. Keep coming back for updates about specific routes as we get closer to launch.
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
mrstl
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:11 am

Which terminal will they operate out of at JFK??
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:19 am

Quote:
In this regard, we do not find the 85,000-
foot ceiling unduly onerous given the Virgin Group’s announced plans to mount a
suborbital commercial service.)

I thought this was really interesting. Taken from the .pdf file. I'm not entirely sure what it's saying in the context of the paragraph (I need to read the license to understand, me thinks...), but either way, that is still an interesting acknowledgement.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 23):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 22):
This move also effectively leaves BA as the only “injured party” in the US – EU Open Skies plan. Virgin’s ability to develop new transatlantic flights to non-UK cities and feed them w/ intra-US flies is a huge advantage for them – and an advantage they want to develop before other carriers are able to match them.

I hardly believe any major European carrier will go and start operating from other European countries to the US (Say VS flying MAD-LAX)

you will be surprised then. Many EU airlines will start services from other than their home countries.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:53 am

Great news. This does rehash some questions brought up before, mainly - what gates will they use at SFO? It's my understanding they had not gotten to that stage in their planning. Does this mean the old international concourse will finally get a revamp? All of a sudden, SFO seems very popular with LCC's. Added gates would seem needed at some point, especially if Virgin is a success.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:53 am

I forgot to add, that even as an AA fan, I'm really glad to see VA about to (hopefully) get off the ground. It seems like they've got a great product, that will hopefully add some good quality competition all around. Hope to see them at AUS sometime soon!

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
B6sFinest
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:08 am

It says on Usatoday.com that they are going to operate a leet of 34 aircraft. Does this mean in the future they wont go over 34 or are they happy with that amount???
Got Blue?
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:24 am

Excellent, and about time Big grin

Good look VA, you'll need it  Smile



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
a380us
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:40 am

Ive been waiting such a long time for this. Big grin
Why wouldn't set up a hub at JFK where virgin Atlantic flies 4 times a day.
are they going to code share with VS on flights.
and when DJ gets their long haul will Virgin America code share there too?
www.JandACosmetics.com
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:04 am

I wonder if they will fly to MCO. It would be nice for a SFO-MCO or possibly a LAX-MCO, instead of UA/DL/AA.

MEACEDAR
 
joemac547
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 10):
Brilliant , good news at last , I really hope to fly F class on their AC as soon as they start.


I believe their business plan calls for an all coach cabin, similar to JetBlue. You may be waiting awhile for that F seat.

Their web site shows that the planes have an 8 person F Cabin that really looks impressive (55" pitch, PTV's, etc).

[Edited 2007-03-21 01:39:40]
 
ikramerica
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:59 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
Does that mean that Virgin America is cleared to fly? Are these conditions acceptable to SRB?

No, it mean that should they choose to follow these conditions which would put them into compliance with the law, then they are cleared to fly. Right now, they are denied the cert.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 21):
Crow anyone?

Who? If VA follows the law, they should fly. DOT explained what it would take to follow the law. Now we'll see if VA follows it.

My guess is they will appeal again.

SRB wants to create global airline with fingers all over the world. The DOT wants VA to be autonomous. That includes a NON-SRB lacky CEO who has the right to fly to the EU or anywhere else they choose, even if it means competing with VS and Pacific Blue, and without having to pay royalties to VS to do it.

Anyone know if SRB is going to agree to this?

That's the billion dollar question...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 37):
what gates will they use at SFO?

Not exactly sure what gates exactly, But the AirTrain directory has them using International Terminal A. It also says Jetblue will be in Terminal 1.
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
PlanenutzTB
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:42 am

Congratulations to VA! Let VA fly!
I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end.
 
FATFlyer
Topic Author
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 44):
Right now, they are denied the cert.

Actually it wasn't denied, the DOT found that they can be issued the certificate under the conditions. It will be up to Virgin to accept the conditions OR for other airlines to protest in the next 21 days.

What DOT says is
As discussed further below, based on our review of the amended record of this case we
now tentatively find that Virgin America will be a citizen of the United States, will be fit,
willing, and able to provide interstate scheduled air transportation of persons, property,
and mail, and should be issued a certificate of public convenience and necessity
authorizing such operations, subject to conditions.


Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 39):
It says on Usatoday.com that they are going to operate a leet of 34 aircraft. Does this mean in the future they wont go over 34 or are they happy with that amount???

The DOT is going to limit them to 17 aircraft initially.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:46 am

Hah, Reid got what was coming to him. Good to see him go.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Virgin America Approved W/conditions-ruling Here

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 33):
Our first route is from San Francisco to New York-round trip, of course. Beyond that, we're thinking initially about cities like Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Denver, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Dallas, Austin, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston. Keep coming back for updates about specific routes as we get closer to launch.

Well dang... Raleigh-Durham sent in a letter to the FAA/DOT expressing that VA should be allowed to start flying, and they we aren't even on the list. Well ain't that just a kick in the rump. Irony....
Aiming High and going far..

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