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clickhappy
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Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:50 am

Boeing will begin flight testing of a scale Blended Wing Aircraft, hoping for a military application by 2022 and commercial service by 2030.

(Business 2.0) -- -- It would be a dream come true for the airline industry: A plane that uses up to 30 percent less gas to reach its destination, compared with today's jets.

That's the promise of the blended-wing, a radically new kind of aircraft set to take to the skies for the first time this month. Originally conceived by McDonnell Douglas and developed by NASA, the blended-wing merges fuselage and wings and eliminates the tail, reducing drag. That makes it vastly more fuel-efficient than regular "tube-and-wing" jets, according to Boeing (Charts) engineer Norm Princen.


http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/12/maga...ewing.biz2/?postversion=2007031309
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:53 am

Wow this is actually ironic --

In a discussion with Co-workers today (many of whom have NO idea about aviation), the discussion revolved around the 747, and the A380, and the question posed was "How big will they get?" (referring to the 'size' of the plane..)

I talked a little about BWB planes (not that I know ENOUGH), but they were all amazed at the idea of it.

Very cool -- I look forward to seeing more information on it!

1011yyz
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N231YE
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:05 am

I remember seeing something about this in the Popular Mechanics magazine.

The major downside: a small portion of the passengers actually get a window seat...and for us A.netters, that could mean war over a window!
 
SANChaser
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:06 am

Just wish they'd hurry up and get going. Time for new airplane shapes to dominate the sky.

Unfortunately, this article is almost a re-hash of the October 2006 news release, and I can't find new press releases in either the Boeing site or the Nasa Dryden site. Does anyone have actual information on how/when the prototype will be flying?
 
siromega
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:16 am

Forget window seats, I think I'd take a 7" LCD in the seat in front of me that would offer a video feeds from cameras mounted around the exterior of the plane.
 
laremiller
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 2):
The major downside: a small portion of the passengers actually get a window seat...and for us A.netters, that could mean war over a window!

I'll bet the airlines will charge a big premium for those few window seats. Or maybe they'll put the first class/biz class seats on the perimeter along the windows, and the tourist-class seats in middle of the plane?
 
haggis79
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:56 am

I'm not too convinced yet if that's really going to happen.... it's certainly possible from a technical point of view, but airlines also need to care about passenger comfort....

the BW design does not only have issues when it comes to windows (remember that one of the points B advertises for the 787 are actually the larger windows?), but also with respect to evacuation (where to put emergency doors? How are passengers in the middle of the thing to be evacuated quickly?) and comfort during turbulences (I wouldn't like to sit at the wingtip... don't know about other people).

Finally, if I'm not mistaken these things are meant to transport 750+ people... so what's with the argument that there's no market for planes as big?
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ER757
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 6):
but also with respect to evacuation (where to put emergency doors? How are passengers in the middle of the thing to be evacuated quickly?)

This is why I don't see the BWB as a viable option for commercial passenger applications. I don't see how it would ever pass an evacuation test.
 
dw747400
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:23 am

T

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 6):
the BW design does not only have issues when it comes to windows (remember that one of the points B advertises for the 787 are actually the larger windows?), but also with respect to evacuation (where to put emergency doors? How are passengers in the middle of the thing to be evacuated quickly?) and comfort during turbulences (I wouldn't like to sit at the wingtip... don't know about other people).

Finally, if I'm not mistaken these things are meant to transport 750+ people... so what's with the argument that there's no market for planes as big?

The windows issue is obviously one that requires a creative work-around. I'm sure Boeing will research how to sculpt the interior better and add visual references to the outside in order to minimize discomfort. Emergency exits through the top and bottom of the wing are certainly possible, though it will be interesting to see how they would be implimented. The wing will likely be robust enough around the passenger cabin to minimize most turbulence-related issues--no worse than a normal plane--but rolling motion, either commanded or due to outside forces, could be a problem. Sitting far away from the aircraft centerline does create that problem.

BWB concepts are scalable, though most look at them as a 300+ seat aircraft. A few studies have investigated BWBs in the 737/A320 size range as well. Still, I'd expect to see the first commercial BWB as a big airplane, but not nessecarily 750+.

Other than passenger comfort in the outboard cabins, the biggest issue I see is making a light-weight pressure vessel the shape that is needed. You have unique stresses in an aircraft shaped like the BWB, and it will require innovative engineering to overcome this challenge.
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oly720man
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
hoping for a military application by 2022

Doesn't the B2 count? Or is that a flying wing as opposed to a blended wing?


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lehpron
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 2):
The major downside: a small portion of the passengers actually get a window seat...and for us A.netters, that could mean war over a window!

With THAT design yes. Blended-wing-body is just a definition, not an image, it can apply to any shape and still be related to the original.

Quit insisting on the only design you see as the only way it can be done! The practicality response is just a cop-out.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 2):
The major downside: a small portion of the passengers actually get a window seat...and for us A.netters, that could mean war over a window!

The real major downside is interfacing the blended-wing plane with current airport gate ops. The big wing would require significant gate spacing (which is at a premium at major hub airports). Getting airbridges and service trucks to them would also be a challenge.

That being said, a blended-wing super jumbo would make a 747-800i or A-380 seem like "gas guzzlers".
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:43 am

Blended wing concept are not new. There are design practacality issues, like evacuations.
 
N231YE
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:11 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 10):
Quit insisting on the only design you see as the only way it can be done! The practicality response is just a cop-out.

The only Boeing/McDac BWB I have ever seen (with minor variations) is as shown below:

 
Areopagus
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:23 am

A NASA article has a figure showing a BWB airliner overlaid on a 747 outline. The wingspan is more like an A380, but the LOA is short.

(Sorry, I don't know how to set the image background color.)
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 4):
Forget window seats, I think I'd take a 7" LCD in the seat in front of me that would offer a video feeds from cameras mounted around the exterior of the plane.

Agreed but, nothing beats that feeling of pressing your snout to the window and looking out with awe. I'm 50, been flying non-rev for 5 years and still can't get enough of those window seats and their views along with that sensation. But, would the sonic cruiser be revived? And what about speed. The article was a quickie. Think Boeing could finally make that leap to HSCT travel? For jetting past the speed of sound, giving up those windows would be easier to stomach.

I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am

With modern IFE and cameras... I'm not sure the windows are really an issue.

Evacuation? OH... I want to see that footage!  Wink

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 9):
Doesn't the B2 count? Or is that a flying wing as opposed to a blended wing?

Its considered a "flying wing." Also, if you look closely, the B2 has a fuselage cylinder that detracts from its efficiency. I could also go into airflow separation on the B2 (stealth compromise), etc. Don't get me wrong. The B2 has amazing performance and I'm glad to see Northrop is bidding to restart production!  bigthumbsup  But that's another forum.  Wink

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 11):

That being said, a blended-wing super jumbo would make a 747-800i or A-380 seem like "gas guzzlers".

 checkmark 

We were talking BWB's at work today. Just such a game changer. With B2 style flight envelope limitations... it would become a very smooth flier.

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 15):
Think Boeing could finally make that leap to HSCT travel?

Do you think oil is going back to $15/bbl?

Me neither.  Sad

I would love to see a BWB in service. With a selection of in flight cameras... I'd be happy to give up the window. (Have forward, 45 degrees down (from nose), port wing, startboard wind, due aft, aft pointing down, straight down.)

Let's put it this way... if you live on the West Coast of the US, after this summer you'll agree a more fuel efficient aircraft is a good thing. Ugh... I'm not looking forward to paying for gas in August...

Lightsaber
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longhaulheavy
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:42 pm

I can't remember where I saw it, but there's a study about passenger comfort and blended wing designs. When people were showed pictures of the amphitheater-style seating that you'd have in a BWB, they were universally opposed because of the 1) lack of windows and 2) distance from exits. It really freaked some people out.

Plus, I think there are also some issues with having passengers seated out "on a wing." Aren't they going to experience free-fall in a sharp turn?
 
laddb
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 15):
Think Boeing could finally make that leap to HSCT travel? For jetting past the speed of sound, giving up those windows would be easier to stomach.

Lets hope so. Blended wing, super size transport (A380), 787, etc., while consisting of leading edge avionics, materials and sub sonic aerodynamics, are nothing major as far as airline transportation goes. IMHO, the last big step forward was the concorde, and now that is gone. (Why didn't Branson get them??) One day do I really have to tell my grandkids that "back in my day, we could fly from NYC to Paris in 3 hours."?

The thing that all travelers want more than anything is to get from point A to B as fast as possible for a reasonable cost. Once we can travel from NYC to Sydney in 2-3 hours for $1000 US in today's dollars, the world will shrink even more. So SSTO type aircraft is what I'd like to see. Yeah - and I also want my personal robot and everyhting else I saw on the Jetsons.
 
Oroka
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:19 pm

I suspect that the passengers will be in the core of the BWB so that the exaggerated roll at the outer body wont make them sick... so there will be very very few windows at all. It will be like cruise ships, you have to pay more for a room with a window, but if you can get a super cheap rate somewhere, you will take the central seats.
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 16):
With modern IFE and cameras... I'm not sure the windows are really an issue.

I don't agree. We can also stay at home and watch FL350 videos instead of flying. It just sucks when you don't have a window seat.

BEG2IAH
 
Devilfish
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting SANChaser (Reply 3):
Unfortunately, this article is almost a re-hash of the October 2006 news release, and I can't find new press releases in either the Boeing site or the Nasa Dryden site. Does anyone have actual information on how/when the prototype will be flying?

The October 06 release mentioned "early next year". The use of the X-48B now as the opening image (alternating with other projects) to their site could be a clue that flight testing would commence soon.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
SpeckSpot
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:29 am

Lets explore this for a minute. What if by then we have HDTV -quality LCD screens, and you have a screen which can choose from any of 12 cameras to look at (like having 12 windows to yourself, and you can move from one to the other
without getting out of your seat). Nose view during takeoff, left view, right view, belly view, tail view backwards, tail view of aircraft, and maybe even a cockpit view, ala next generation UA channel 9. It can be SOOO much better than a window
seat. And they can put powerful telescopic zooms into the cameras. And you can flip between the camera views like TV channels. Thats the good news. The bad news is that it comes on all seats except *true* window seats. Which would you pick?
 
mika
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:32 am

Personally i would have a hard time giving up the sensation of watching out the window of a traditional airliner and seeing the wing and all of it's mechanics at work, while at the same time being able to spectate the ground below and the skies above. THAT is beauty in my book!
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 22):
And you can flip between the camera views like TV channels. Thats the good news. The bad news is that it comes on all seats except *true* window seats. Which would you pick?

Then why bother and have windows on that plane? I would still pick a real life window and not high tech mumbo jumbo. I know it's cool, but it's the same as watching FL350 or a Flight Simulator.

BEG2IAH
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:25 am

I knew a gentleman who worked in the 777 Payloads (that's "passengers" to you and me) group who noted Boeing considered not installing windows and instead go with projections of the outside on the walls. Weight, cost and complexity nixed this plan, but as new ultra-thin LEDs and OLEDs advance, it may one day be possible to do this in an economical manner. BMW Design, for example, showed an A350 cabin mockup with a "sky" on the ceiling, ala Hogwart's Castle in the Harry Potter books, that could show clouds or a starry night.
 
FXfan
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:26 am

How would you like to have one of the outermost seats in that aircraft? Every time the plane banks into a turn you rise or fall 30 feet.
 
iwok
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
"That's the promise of the blended-wing, a radically new kind of aircraft set to take to the skies for the first time this month. Originally conceived by McDonnell Douglas and developed by NASA, the blended-wing merges fuselage and wings and eliminates the tail, reducing drag. That makes it vastly more fuel-efficient than regular "tube-and-wing" jets, according to Boeing (Charts) engineer Norm Princen"

I think Brunelli and Jack Northrup really had the first idea to do such a design. Also I think there was a prototype Henkel or Messeschmit design in WWII which had a similar approach.

Other than that however, if the designers can come up with a way to make people feel comfortable, even far from a window, this desing could be great.

-iwok
 
Areopagus
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Fxfan (Reply 26):
How would you like to have one of the outermost seats in that aircraft? Every time the plane banks into a turn you rise or fall 30 feet.

If you rise or fall 30 feet when the aircraft banks 30 degrees, you are sitting 60 feet from the center line. A passenger compartment 120 feet wide would be a large airplane indeed.

Quoting Iwok (Reply 27):
Brunelli and Jack Northrup

Burnelli and Northrop.
 
mush
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 20):

I don't agree. We can also stay at home and watch FL350 videos instead of flying. It just sucks when you don't have a window seat.

You make it sound like all people fly for is to see the sights. For people that actually do need to get from point A to point B having video might be perfectly fine.

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 22):
And they can put powerful telescopic zooms into the cameras.

I think this may be to difficult to do...the reason being is that you will have multiple people watching the camera feed and they may not want to zoom in on something. Now if you used digital zoom only it would be a different story, but you would lose quality as you zoomed in.
Sprung from cages out on highway 9
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Mush (Reply 29):
You make it sound like all people fly for is to see the sights. For people that actually do need to get from point A to point B having video might be perfectly fine.

It's a matter of personal preference, and that's all I'm writing about. For an aviation enthusiast it's probably important, at least it is for me. I don't know if you ever experienced turbulence and you couldn't watch outside. It's 10 times worse than when you have a window.

If you plan to stick your head in your laptop for the whole flight you better have no window or video to distract you.

BEG2IAH
 
haggis79
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 24):
Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 22):And you can flip between the camera views like TV channels. Thats the good news. The bad news is that it comes on all seats except *true* window seats. Which would you pick?
Then why bother and have windows on that plane? I would still pick a real life window and not high tech mumbo jumbo. I know it's cool, but it's the same as watching FL350 or a Flight Simulator.

I second that... HDTV is nothing compared to real life...

maybe they could make the windows in the edge big enough for everyone in the plane to see something? similar to a bus? or they could built windows into the bottom of the plane... now that would be fun  Wink

seriously, I think lack of windows is also a safety concern - no outside light if there's no power in the cabin.
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BoomBoom
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting Longhaulheavy (Reply 17):
When people were showed pictures of the amphitheater-style seating that you'd have in a BWB, they were universally opposed because of the 1) lack of windows and 2) distance from exits. It really freaked some people out.

Well I'm sure if you showed people 30" pitch seating in an A320 or 737 they would be universally opposed to that too, but they'll still buy the ticket if the price is right.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
AVinutso
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:14 am

Hmmmm,

Some interesting points being brought out by all. Lets take a look at some specific points:
1. Fuel Economy - will the price of fuel ever go down? NOT Ever. It is going to come to the point where airlines are going to have to look at ways to keep fuel costs down or average Joe will not be able to travel with his family affordably, even in economy class. They will be driving to Vegas instead. An aircraft that is 30% more fuel efficient than anything flying and offers tremendous CASM will be looked at seriously by airlines.

2. Passenger comfort - I see things going several different ways here. A much wider body may mean that there will be more space between seats with room enough for a lot of seats. That would appeal to me for sure but that issue will have to be up to the person getting on that aircraft. I for one really like a window seat but not the stiff neck that goes with it on prolonged flights. Multiple camera views would be welcome in my book. I like the idea of scaling this aircraft for different needs.

3. Breaking traditional mindsets - Would people be willing to fly something so different? If the price is right and air travel costs can be held down for business travel (which I think is the key) I think the airlines would be forced to break traditional aircraft design if the aviation industry and business travel demanded something be done. It all comes down to the cost of air travel.

Finally, the blended wing aircraft are just really cool.

Just some personal though on the matter.



J
Maybe we shoulda thought of that FIRST
 
AA777
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:52 am

I think that when it comes down to it...if a BWB is 30% more efficient... the airlines will eventually bite. How many pax ACTUALLY get Window seats anyway, when on a T7, 744, or any other large wide body? And even if youre sitting NEXT to the guy in the window seat..... you still dont have a great view. So I think its all sort of relative. In reality, it will all come down to safety, reliability and fuel efficiency. Money Money Money. Airlines are a business, afterall.

And yes...with camera technology that offer more views than the traditional window seat.... it wouldnt be that bad....especially for us tall passengers who are constantly crouching down to try and see out the window. (A standard window comes about to my shoulder! lol

-AA777
 
lehpron
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 16):
Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 15):
Think Boeing could finally make that leap to HSCT travel?

Do you think oil is going back to $15/bbl?

It's things like this that tick me off more than ignorance due to BWB's.

Is it so wrong to come up with new technology that works with current fuel prices? Is it possible that increasing the development costs may reduce future operational costs and thus fares? It doesn't matter if it is a BWB variant or an SST variant, if people insist we not bother thinking ahead to come up with better ways of doing things and rather wait for the market to change first because they are not willing to take the risk, they're a bag of fries short of a happy meal.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 7):
This is why I don't see the BWB as a viable option for commercial passenger applications. I don't see how it would ever pass an evacuation test.

That's what they said about the 747. Too big to evacuate. Also said it was too big for present day airports. Wouldn't fit into the gates at the time.
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 35):

Is it so wrong to come up with new technology that works with current fuel prices?

There will be new technology in a business jet. The problem has been that near sonic and super-sonic flight is incredibly fuel intensive. Any technological advantage that cuts a SST's fuel burn will do just as well on a subsonic aircraft.

Remember, I worked on the Sonic Cruiser. Its fuel burn numbers aren't a mystery to me. Flying a small plane load with big plane fuel burn... isn't viable on a large scale. That is unless we are able to grow our fuel (algea?). Its not that I don't love technology. Remember, I'm in aerospace R&D. But I also see what's practical. No increase in development costs gets past that M^2 term in the drag equation.  Sad Looking at the basic physics... no one has come up with a concept that is viable at oil prices above $15/bbl. That wasn't ignorance. That was me actually keeping one of my posts short.  Wink As an Engineer, I'd love to develop everything. But I also know that unless the business cases make sense, Aerospace development money dries up fast. I'd rather the money be put to where it will advance the game. e.g., BWB's, GTF's, materials (that are needed for the SSTs anyway), even more advanced engine cycles (fuel cells in the cargo hold), GPS based ATC (that would save time and fuel for everyone and would almost certainly be required for any future SST, so let's 'get 'er done.).

As to the BWB evacuation... I would love to see one in service. But the evacation test will be the "proof in the pudding." With oil going where it is and very unlikely to go do much (if any)... It must be done. But designing a BWB for evacuation isn't as easy as the current "cigars with wings." Can it be done? Yes!  bigthumbsup  Will it require some interesting door designs? You had better believe it.  Wink

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
iflykpdx
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:59 am

Yeah the main problem I see with BWB evac is you can't have doors on the floor since landing gear collapse would obviously make those unusable. Doors in the ceiling are also obviously a problem for shorter/disabled passengers. Interesting designs indeed!
Airport Management - UND
 
2H4
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:58 pm




Quoting N231YE (Reply 13):
The only Boeing/McDac BWB I have ever seen (with minor variations) is as shown below:


Just imagine the cost of de-icing such a monster.....


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
iwok
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 28):
Burnelli and Northrop.

Ahh yes, thanks for the clarification  Smile

Burnelli:


Northpop


iwok
 
jbernie
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:22 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 39):
Just imagine the cost of de-icing such a monster.....


2H4

Actually... i wonder, if they do some of the surface angles correctly...maybe you can have the deicing fluid flow over the surface and be as effective?

But to extend out from your question.... what happens during heavy snow? Does air flowing over the surface help clear it off? With all that top surface area, at what point does the snow become to heavy when the plane is on the ground that it can't take off etc.

Oh, and what about bird strikes? on that NWA drawing, all those frontal windows... to quote a tv chef.. BAM! I wont want to be in the front few rows when a bird doesn't move in time.

Overall I can see the appeal of the aircraft but as always.. if the airlines can't see the design being profitable then they won't go for it. As much as the SST and other jets are desirable to aviation buffs, planes that are profitable are what the airlines need.
 
RaginMav
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting Jbernie (Reply 41):
what happens during heavy snow? Does air flowing over the surface help clear it off

If the aircraft accumulates snow on the upper surface during a layover, it must be removed before takeoff (before the air flow can 'remove' it), as it diminishes the ability of the airfoil to make lift.

Quoting Jbernie (Reply 41):
With all that top surface area, at what point does the snow become to heavy when the plane is on the ground that it can't take off etc

The problem is really the changes in wing shape due to snow/ice. And since pretty much the entire aircraft is the wing, the entire aircraft must be cleared of snow/ice.

Thus:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 39):
Just imagine the cost of de-icing such a monster.....
 
N231YE
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 39):
Just imagine the cost of de-icing such a monster.....

Probably whatever is saved in fuel costs.
 
GBan
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting Iwok (Reply 40):
Northpop

Southpop?

 Wink
 
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Tugger
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am

Guys (and Gals)....

This will be for a CARGO aircraft for the military. This will not be planned for a civilian transport. Some military personnel may ride on them just like they do now but they will not care about windows nor will they be at the outer edges. The main thing the military wants is a heavy lift, large cargo capable transport and the BWB can provide that. After that Boeing can leverage it into commercial cargo transport. Think "C5 and C17replacement" and how people would love to see a commercial version of the C17 but likely will never see one with the primary mission to fly people.

Tug

[Edited 2007-03-23 01:16:06]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
planemaker
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
a radically new kind of aircraft set to take to the skies for the first time this month.

"a radically new"??? Yikes!! Another article where the reporter doesn't have a clue! The fact that it is the "X-48B should have been at least a clue!  Big grin

Quoting Tugger (Reply 45):
This will be for a CARGO aircraft for the military.

Not only that... but by 2035 no one can predict what state the airline industry will have morphed into!! There won't be a need for a BWB except for Military and cargo ops.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
iwok
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 44):
Southpop?

*sigh* maybe I'll get SOMETHING spelt correctly!!  Smile

-iwok
 
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ER757
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RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 36):
Quoting ER757 (Reply 7):
This is why I don't see the BWB as a viable option for commercial passenger applications. I don't see how it would ever pass an evacuation test.


That's what they said about the 747. Too big to evacuate. Also said it was too big for present day airports. Wouldn't fit into the gates at the time.

BIG difference between a 747 and a BWB. In a 747 it's no more than 5 seats from the center of the fuselage to the outside edge. In a BWB it could be double that (or more) - would take a LOT longer to get out if you were in a middle seat. 90 second evac of the entire plane pretty unlikely IMO.
 
jbernie
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:09 am

RE: Boeing To Begin Flight Testing Of Blended Wing

Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 48):
BIG difference between a 747 and a BWB. In a 747 it's no more than 5 seats from the center of the fuselage to the outside edge. In a BWB it could be double that (or more) - would take a LOT longer to get out if you were in a middle seat. 90 second evac of the entire plane pretty unlikely IMO.

Though you could run with multiple ailses the length of the plane..hopefully wider ailes...and you can also place emergency doors in more locations.... front side rear..maybe even top... though pretty much everything is theory as until you start getting real #s for size weight etc you can't really be sure how everything fits together.

another possibility for lay our is to have an aisle between the windows and seats..and then run with seats in sets of 4 so you are only one seat from an aisle. as you aren't confined to such a narrow (relative) body you can change the way things are done.

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