FA4B6
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Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:21 am

Virgin America to compete with JetBlue

Beth Kassab |
Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted March 21, 2007, 9:57 AM EDT

Just as JetBlue Airways is trying to get back on track after a system-wide meltdown last month comes the news that a major new competitor is approaching.

Full story at: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busin....story?coll=orl-business-headlines
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flyf15
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:42 am

Hard to compete with another airline if you never end up existing....
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:46 am

Virgin US of A will have ready made feed from Virgin Atlantic into JFK or EWR and Virgin Blue into LAX or SFO, a nice kick start for them  Smile
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
dutchjet
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:52 am

Really not much of an article, is it? Lets first see what routes Virgin America decides to fly out of SFO aside from the transcon to JFK. Does SFO-JFK make any sense as this airline's first route? So much competition, many business flyers with loyalties to a specific airline, etc, etc.....I remember when America West attempted the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons and also recall Delta's poor experience using the Song product on the transcons: the results were anything but good, nothing more than lots and lots of pax paying rock bottom fares. I expected more.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
I remember when America West attempted the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons and also recall Delta's poor experience using the Song product on the transcons: the results were anything but good, nothing more than lots and lots of pax paying rock bottom fares. I expected more.

I always wondered what HP was thinking when they opened those routes. It reminded me of the transcon experiment EA attempted in the early days of deregulation, which was shuttered so quickly, if you blinked you missed it. One thing Virgin America has going for it neither EA or HP had is a certain amount of cachet and sexiness about the name brand. US transcon services are littered with the bodies of failed attempts to compete with the likes of UA, AA and TWA over the years, and only JetBlue and Continental have survived the bloodbaths.

I do question Virgin America's selection of SFO as a base, since it's a UA connection fortress, and I don't know how much money there will be in it for them to carry VS or DJ passengers their last few miles. While it will certainly contribute something, I doubt it will be anything in comparison to what the travel contracts from the financial and entertainment industries provide UA and AA in terms of high-value passengers if their First cabin is limited to 8 seats.
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FMAL
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:15 am

When is Virgin America expected to start the sale of tickets?

What are the first expected routes?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:20 am

First they have to agree to comply with the law. They could appeal instead. Depends on if the management agrees to fire themselves for the good of the investment or if they really are in the back pocket of SRB like the DOT suspects.

Until then, B6 doesn't have to worry about VA.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:22 am

I dont see much competition here except for UA which has major operations out of SFO, and WN.
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richierich
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
Hard to compete with another airline if you never end up existing....



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
First they have to agree to comply with the law. They could appeal instead. Depends on if the management agrees to fire themselves for the good of the investment or if they really are in the back pocket of SRB like the DOT suspects.

It's coming! Yes they have to comply with the law but don't think for a minute that VA will remain grounded forever. It's going to happen, it's going to fly. The details have to be worked out and agreed upon, of course, but with as much money as they have sunk into it already, its just a matter of time.

While obviously B6 will have reason to worry about a new competitor, clearly they are not alone. I'd say UA has as much to lose as JetBlue does, if not more (think Business clients)....
None shall pass!!!!
 
Aviator27
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
I do question Virgin America's selection of SFO as a base,

Virgin America never said SFO was going to be their hub/base. They only said it was going to be their operational hq. This is where they will staff their flight operations personal, training, dispatch, reservations, etc.

Aside from cities listed in their DOT filings and the SFO-JFK run, no one except higher ups at Virgin America know what their route structure is. I can see a strong presense in NY and Orlando area with tie-ups to Virgin Atlantic flights. That is just a guess on my part.

I still think its funny that Fred Reid is getting dumped as part of the concessions they must make.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 9):
Virgin America never said SFO was going to be their hub/base. They only said it was going to be their operational hq.

Ah, thanks for the correction. In all of the recent focus on flights from SFO, and speculation about other airlines initiating service on potential routes for Virgin America from SFO as pre-emptive moves, that point had been lost in the bigger picture of things for me.
International Homo of Mystery
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Thread starter):
Just as JetBlue Airways is trying to get back on track after a system-wide meltdown last month comes the news that a major new competitor is approaching.

Kinda funny isn't it....just when the legacy carriers were suffering from their worst meltdown came the news that a new competitor was approaching. Who was that again, some JFK based start up? Oh yeah, B6!

I guess what goes around comes around. Sorry, you'll get no sypathy from me.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 8):
It's coming! Yes they have to comply with the law but don't think for a minute that VA will remain grounded forever. It's going to happen, it's going to fly. The details have to be worked out and agreed upon, of course, but with as much money as they have sunk into it already, its just a matter of time.

While obviously B6 will have reason to worry about a new competitor, clearly they are not alone. I'd say UA has as much to lose as JetBlue does, if not more (think Business clients)....

i hope to god your wrong but it wouldn't be the first time the US DOT has done something so so dumb.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
airbazar
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 9):
Virgin America never said SFO was going to be their hub/base. They only said it was going to be their operational hq. This is where they will staff their flight operations personal, training, dispatch, reservations, etc.

I could be wrong but I think their HQ's will be both in SanFran and NY. Their primary operating hub will be in SFO, and they say so in their web page too.
 
richierich
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 12):
i hope to god your wrong but it wouldn't be the first time the US DOT has done something so so dumb.

I don't know what the final product is going to look like (the airline, not the on-board service), but it is going to fly..... Too many people have sunk too much money in this thing to walk away from it. I was on here in December or January guessing they'd be flying by summer. OK, that ain't happening, but I still think they will be ready to go within six months of obtaining a certificate. That might happen soon.
None shall pass!!!!
 
vega
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 12):
While obviously B6 will have reason to worry about a new competitor, clearly they are not alone. I'd say UA has as much to lose as JetBlue does, if not more (think Business clients)....

i hope to god your wrong but it wouldn't be the first time the US DOT has done something so so dumb.

If you scan all of the DOT filings on this matter, you'll notice there is a significant amount of congressional and local support correspondence for this service. The DOT may have been under intense pressure to approve VA if they could not find a significant, uncorrectable factor.
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atlaaron
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:25 am

From the Virgin America website:


"Our first route is from San Francisco to New York-round trip, of course. Beyond that, we're thinking initially about cities like Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Denver, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Dallas, Austin, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston. Keep coming back for updates about specific routes as we get closer to launch."

It has also been mentioned previously that their first hub will indeed be SFO.
 
ARGinLON
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
Depends on if the management agrees to fire themselves for the good of the investment or if they really are in the back pocket of SRB like the DOT suspects.

I don’t really get this… They allow foreign companies to control airports but they get picky with airline ownership? What’s the reasoning behind other than protectionism???

The suspicion about Richard Branson hiring this guy is a joke. He could have told somebody else “Go and pick this guy so the DOT doesn’t think I am hiring him myself” and still get away with it.
 
B6sFinest
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:13 am

I dont think Jetblue has to worry about VA. They have to worry about getting there Airbus's back from Skybus first. I think its the legacies that will have to worry. I think B6's worst enemy is the media. But since most of the media is oblivious and ignorant to reality I dont really think we have to worry about them either...
Got Blue?
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):
I could be wrong but I think their HQ's will be both in SanFran and NY. Their primary operating hub will be in SFO, and they say so in their web page too.

That's the impression I was under as well. However, I thought they were focusing corporate HQ in San Francisco.
Good goes around!
 
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legacyins
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 18):
They have to worry about getting there Airbus's back from Skybus first

There are 3 VA A320s sitting at SFO right now.

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 19):
That's the impression I was under as well. However, I thought they were focusing corporate HQ in San Francisco.

Initially, they plannes to have their HQ in NY and operations in California. About one year into their application, they decided to base everything in California.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 18):
I dont think Jetblue has to worry about VA. They have to worry about getting there Airbus's back from Skybus first. I think its the legacies that will have to worry. I think B6's worst enemy is the media. But since most of the media is oblivious and ignorant to reality I dont really think we have to worry about them either

i do agree that the media has been on JetBlue's case a little to much......but they will always have one person(or company)that they will do there best to look them bad.....most of us here know that B6 is a good LCC.
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dutchjet
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 18):
I dont think Jetblue has to worry about VA. They have to worry about getting there Airbus's back from Skybus first. I think its the legacies that will have to worry. I think B6's worst enemy is the media. But since most of the media is oblivious and ignorant to reality I dont really think we have to worry about them either...

Huh? Whether JetBlue has to worry about Virgin America or not will depend solely upon which routes Virgin America decides to fly.....in any case, there is now yet another competitor flying in the NYC to SF Bay Area market...so JetBlue does have to think about what Virgin America is doing.

As for the media......for seven years JetBLue loved the media and used the media, JetBLue was the media-darling and was praised for everything they did.....we heard how the legacies should be more like JetBlue, how cities were begging JetBlue to fly to their airports, we heard how JetBlue revolutionized air travel and was a trendy and stylish travel experience. And how could anyone fly for more than 30 minutes without the benefit of Live TV? THEN.....JetBlue seriously screwed up on Valentines Day and serious flaws in their operational methods were exposed due to the terrible weather at JFK that day....it was BIG NEWS....and the media covered it. What did you really expect....the media to give JetBlue a pass and say that it was no big deal that hundreds of pax got stuck on airplanes for many many hours, did you expect the media not to notice and report that JetBlue's entire operation melted down over that weekend and could not recover for days? Seriously, grow up.....JetBlue got some bad media and rightly so, JetBlue's performance that week was nothing short of scary.

Please remember you CANNOT have only good media, the media will notice the good and the bad......tell me, was the media ignorant to reality (your words) just a few months back when all they could do was praise JetBlue?

[Edited 2007-03-22 00:33:40]
 
searpqx
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 18):
I think its the legacies that will have to worry.

All businesses should take notice of a new competitor, especially a well funded one, but Virgin America is aimed squarely at the exact market segment B6 currently serves. The legacies have, for the most part, lost what they're going to lose to B6, and B6 has done a commendable job carving out a niche for itself. But now they are going to have to defend what they've built. Since their hubs are on opposite coasts, at least for awhile, there won't be much overlap, but when they do cross paths, watch out.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:34 am

They are going to war with every airline on the SFO, LAX to NYC market, not just B6.
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jetbluefan1
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 24):
They are going to war with every airline on the SFO, LAX to NYC market, not just B6.

Yep.

Those loyal to JetBlue probably would not jump ship to another airline that offers a similar product. And don't forget that JetBlue will operate JFK-SFO 4x beginning in May. VA will have to have a higher amount of frequencies to be true competition.

JetBluefan1
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:45 am

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 20):
Initially, they plannes to have their HQ in NY and operations in California. About one year into their application, they decided to base everything in California.

That's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying.
Good goes around!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:48 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 25):

Yep.

Those loyal to JetBlue probably would not jump ship to another airline that offers a similar product. And don't forget that JetBlue will operate JFK-SFO 4x beginning in May. VA will have to have a higher amount of frequencies to be true competition.

JetBluefan1

I forgot about that,, 4 extra JetBlue flights in the market (will JetBlue adjust frequency on the JFK-OAK service in any way to compensate?) plus the Virgin America flights.......all that I can say is look for $99.00 fares from NYC to the BayArea this summer on all of the carriers in that market, which is not a good thing for anyone.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:48 am

So why would VA's biggest competition be B6? I would be thinking it would be UA... SFO is a UA hub. SFO is a B6 spoke.. odd..

But anywyay.. what will UA's answer to VA be? Will UA start adding new non-stop flights where VA could potentially go? Or will they do like other airlines and receed? I mean, there will be WN and VA coming with significant flights..

Just wondering..
Aiming High and going far..
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:55 am

SFO will get quite busy in the next year. I'm predicting between WN and UA they will add service/more frequencies to VA's proposed cities and B6 will build up SFO-JFK/BOS in time when VA comes. Now of course VA will get some disgruntled UA pax and other airlines but the market is so crowded I feel like they got to find some special routes that'll work, cause SFO-JFK isn't the best choice to jump in their with UA and B6 and others already floodign the market (more so UA though).

B6jfk airplane 
 
dutchjet
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 28):
But anywyay.. what will UA's answer to VA be?

Increased service out of SFO to any city announced by Virgin America, matching or undercutting fares published by VA on these routes, triple frequent flyer miles on the VA routes, etc. We have seen it before.....I agree, if VA does hub in SFO, UA (and not B6) will have the most at risk, but I just cannot see UA not putting up one hell of a fight to protect its market dominance at SFO.
 
flyinback
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:04 am

As far as clients go, I still am not sure that VA will necessarily compete entirely with B6. I'm unfamiliar with what IFE options will be available on VA, but I was under the impression that many of them will not be free (I could be wrong). Also, I seem to feel like their fares may be higher than B6 (as they seem to try to offer a more premium product and will have a small first class section). Overall, I don't see VA competing directly with either the legacy's nor B6 entirely. I see it as a little bit of both - perhaps some of the business customers from the legacy's and certain portion of B6 pax.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting FlyInBack (Reply 32):
As far as clients go, I still am not sure that VA will necessarily compete entirely with B6. I'm unfamiliar with what IFE options will be available on VA, but I was under the impression that many of them will not be free (I could be wrong). Also, I seem to feel like their fares may be higher than B6 (as they seem to try to offer a more premium product and will have a small first class section). Overall, I don't see VA competing directly with either the legacy's nor B6 entirely. I see it as a little bit of both - perhaps some of the business customers from the legacy's and certain portion of B6 pax.

Every passenger sitting on a VA airlpane flying between JFK and SFO and return would otherwise have been on CO, UA, DL, AA, B6 flight or on another carrier using a connecting service....thus, VA is competing. As for higher fares, I think not, as I said above, its gonna be a $99.00 summer in the JFK-SFO market, its only a question of which airline makes the first move.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 17):
They allow foreign companies to control airports

Not exactly.

And as I've said about the whole UK LHR thing, just because you make one mistake, doesn't mean you must continue to repeat that mistake and expand upon it.

I am all for VA flying. As soon as they comply with the law. Until then, they should be denied.

I do not feel that the law should be change to accommodate a new entrant. That is the definition of government misconduct. SRB is likely lobbying the UK government pretty hard on this issue re: open skies for this very reason. While BA is protecting LHR, VS wants to exploit the USA market domestically any way SRB can.

It is quite transparent how this is going down. Pressure from all sides: internationally via the conditions for open skies, and locally by strategically starting a new airline in the USA that skirts the rules but that has certain powerful politicians in his pocket (starting flights between two of the biggest states, and putting the offices in the state with the 5th largest economy in the world). Nobody in their right mind would start a business like this based in CA due to the cost of doing business, unless of course the real reason was much less about profit and much more about long term conquest via other properties.

All the while, SRB is hiding behind is new "global crusader" pledge. Question: if SRB is so worried about global warming, why is he starting yet another A320 transcon airline in the USA? Why isn't VA going to run A333s JFK-SFO instead? Wouldn't this be the responsible thing to do. What happens when they steal passengers. Won't AA and others have to downsize their aircraft even further? Doesn't this burn more fuel?

SRB is proving to be a fraud, and I don't think the DOT is fooled by any of this. We'll see what ultimately happens...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
COA735
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:26 pm

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 20):
There are 3 VA A320s sitting at SFO right now.

How many A320's are they expected to have? I wonder if they will grow to a B6 size fleet one day.
 
style
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 18):
I dont think Jetblue has to worry about VA. They have to worry about getting there Airbus's back from Skybus first. I think its the legacies that will have to worry. I think B6's worst enemy is the media. But since most of the media is oblivious and ignorant to reality I dont really think we have to worry about them either...

You'll be eating those words sooner than you think. As for the media, Dutchjet couldn't have put it better. For 7 years the media was your best friend, now it's your worst enemy?! Funny how Jetblue's own actions caused the media to look into how a difficult situation was handled. Now the media is the bad guy. Yeah right.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:50 pm

Quoting Style (Reply 35):
You'll be eating those words sooner than you think. As for the media, Dutchjet couldn't have put it better. For 7 years the media was your best friend, now it's your worst enemy?! Funny how Jetblue's own actions caused the media to look into how a difficult situation was handled. Now the media is the bad guy. Yeah right.

Style, you forget, B6 is the endall for the US carriers!  rotfl  Has anyone else felt like they were being awarded the privilege to fly B6 with regards to some of the F/A's atrtitudes?
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
CXfirst
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting COA735 (Reply 34):
How many A320's are they expected to have? I wonder if they will grow to a B6 size fleet one day.

They have ordered 16 A320's and 8 A319's (according to Wikipedia) They have 8 A320's delivered and 2 A319's delivered (according to wikipedia). I expect them to order many, many more.

Especially if this happens:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 16):
"Our first route is from San Francisco to New York-round trip, of course. Beyond that, we're thinking initially about cities like Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Denver, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Dallas, Austin, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston. Keep coming back for updates about specific routes as we get closer to launch."

-CXfirst
 
flybyguy
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 11):
Kinda funny isn't it....just when the legacy carriers were suffering from their worst meltdown came the news that a new competitor was approaching. Who was that again, some JFK based start up? Oh yeah, B6!

I guess what goes around comes around. Sorry, you'll get no sypathy from me.

Unfortunately, this is true. I feel badly that jetblue had to loose face with it's first hick up in 7 years while other airlines operate as if blunders are the norm with impunity. However, jetblue is a business and they took advantage of a weakened airline industry back in 2000 to make a killing as one of America's favourite airlines... now that it has grown enormously and become somewhat of a legacy in itself (quality of staff and service inevitably decreases substantially with size), I think that it's time for a new player to step up to bring the industry back to basics and step up product quality while maintaining good service levels.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 25):
Those loyal to JetBlue probably would not jump ship to another airline that offers a similar product. And don't forget that JetBlue will operate JFK-SFO 4x beginning in May. VA will have to have a higher amount of frequencies to be true competition.

As much as I love jetblue (and I really do like how they run that airline)... jetblue has marketed itself as a high quality, low fare airline. What I think that means to the general public is that if they have a choice between jetblue and a competitor at the same fare and discounting frequent flyer benefits, people would probably stick with jetblue. But with the recent reorganization of US Airways, they offer pretty competitive fares into and out of NYC to more domestic and international destinations than jetblue can ever offer. I can speak for myself because I currently go to school in Buffalo, NY and got a roundtrip airfare to NYC for roughly $90 (a few dollars less than B6 and I don't have to spend $30 on a cab), plus they put me at LGA (which is closer to my parents' place) and on top of that you get miles that can take you to over 200 domestic and international destinations. Sure it would be on planes held together by duct tape and crewed by the damned, but I think it's a small price to pay for this college student to save a buck.

Perhaps if jetblue offered some sort of additional discount for college students, especially on short hops to college cities like SYR, BOS, BUF, PIT, ROC, to and from NYC (a lot of students from SUNY Buffalo, University of Rochester, RIT, Harvard, MIT, Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh, and others hail from NYC)... because maybe it would be to their benefit... but then again... what do I know? I'm not an MBA or anything.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
SpencerII
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:41 pm

[quote=JetBluefan1,reply=25]Those loyal to JetBlue probably would not jump ship to another airline that offers a similar product. And don't forget that JetBlue will operate JFK-SFO 4x beginning in May. VA will have to have a higher amount of frequencies to be true competition.

JetBluefan1



and look for that to change by September to 1 or none at all. Going A$$ over tea kettle to stiffle a competitor rarely ever works for B6.
 
ckfred
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 17):
I don’t really get this… They allow foreign companies to control airports but they get picky with airline ownership? What’s the reasoning behind other than protectionism???

The idea is that if the government needs to get extra aviation capacity to move troops and equipment, it's much easier to get a carrier owned by American individuals and other entities to fly than a carrier that operates in the U.S. but is owned by foreign entitites.

On the other hand, airports don't move, and they are only operated by foreign companies while owned by municipalities.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2870
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 39):
and look for that to change by September to 1 or none at all. Going A$$ over tea kettle to stiffle a competitor rarely ever works for B6.

What? JFK-SFO isn't just to stifle a competitor; JetBlue already has such a great name in the Bay Area that SFO was the next logical step. It should work out.

And far as it "rarely ever work(ing) for B6", there aren't many instances in which JetBlue has tried to stifle the competition. The only example I can think of is the launching of IAD-BOS (which started before the supposed FL inauguration, and, as a result, FL pulled the route before even starting it). Maybe you're thinking of the whole SWF thing with FL as well, but the Newburgh flights are doing very well from what I hear.

So...with the few examples that exist, it really does seem to work out for JetBlue.

JetBluefan1
 
jacobin777
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 19):

That's the impression I was under as well. However, I thought they were focusing corporate HQ in San Francisco.

...Burlingame, CA to be exact.. Wink

Its actually only a few miles away from SFO...

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 41):
What? JFK-SFO isn't just to stifle a competitor; JetBlue already has such a great name in the Bay Area that SFO was the next logical step. It should work out.

...while B6 serves OAK well (and the daily red-eye out of SJC), as a Bay Area resident for a number of years, I never knew that their name was "big"... scratchchin 
"Up the Irons!"
 
jetbluefan1
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 42):
...while B6 serves OAK well (and the daily red-eye out of SJC), as a Bay Area resident for a number of years, I never knew that their name was "big"...

I never said "big". I said "great".

While JetBlue doesn't have a huge presence in the Bay Area, its success at OAK should be an indicator of the fact that people actually know about them. And there are also 2 daily red-eyes out of SJC - one to BOS, one to JFK - and a second daytime flight to JFK is coming again this summer.

This summer, JetBlue's schedule out of Bay Area airports is as follows:

SJC:
JFK 2
BOS 1

OAK:
JFK 5
BOS 2
IAD 3
FLL 1
LGB 5

SFO:
JFK 4
BOS 1

It can be said that JetBlue is mostly a "niche" carrier out of the Bay Area, I suppose. But these flights aren't being flown due to imaginary demand. Will Virgin America affect that demand in a negative way? We'll see. I'll say that the effect will be minor...JetBlue has some very loyal customers, and with the expansion into SFO, that loyalty will mostly likely only increase.

JetBluefan1
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:21 pm

Dutchjet, welcome to my RU list. Excellent post.

I notice in all this, very little is said of AA. They recently announced a sixth daily 767 on this route, prior to the Virgin ruling, presumably in response to B6 entry into the market. While SFO is a relatively small market for AA as opposed to UA, they are a major player on the transcon run. So we are now looking at five carriers doing SFO-JFK-SFO (AA, DL, B6, UA, VA - do they have a code yet????), in addition to service to EWR by CO and UA. I'm not sure the market will support that many, as Frontier discovered. If a carrier does leave this market, one cannot automatically assume it will be Virgin. I think B6 will be very vulnerable on this route if the Virgin product lives up to expectations.
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 967
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 7):
I dont see much competition here except for UA which has major operations out of SFO, and WN.

Uhhh... San Francisco is a very competitive market. Virgin America is in for a hell of a fight.

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 17):
What’s the reasoning behind other than protectionism???

Congress having their heads up their asses. Something we're used to over here.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 24):
They are going to war with every airline on the SFO, LAX to NYC market, not just B6.

Exactly, and every carrier offering a connection. San Francisco-New York is probably more competitive a market now than Los Angeles-New York.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 44):
I notice in all this, very little is said of AA. They recently announced a sixth daily 767 on this route, prior to the Virgin ruling, presumably in response to B6 entry into the market. While SFO is a relatively small market for AA as opposed to UA, they are a major player on the transcon run.

I was just about to get to this! American is reinforcing its position against JetBlue, and eventually, Virgin America. Do American's 767-300s have a CASM competitive with Jetblue's A320s?

There is going to a significant price war in the San Francisco-New York market, and someone is going to pull out, and it sure as heck isn't going to be one of the legacies.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 43):

I never said "big". I said "great".

..ok...my bad.... Smile

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 43):

It can be said that JetBlue is mostly a "niche" carrier out of the Bay Area, I suppose.

....for the most part...the fact they only do 2 red-eyes on the transcon (and one day flight during the summer) at SJC, even while serving SJC for a while leads me to believe they aren't too strong in the SJC area...they are doing fine in the OAK-area..and lets see how they do in SFO....

...hey, bring 'em all on...that's better fares and more photos @ SFO for me.. bigthumbsup 
"Up the Irons!"
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2870
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 46):
..ok...my bad....

LOL no prob...I was just busting your chops.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 46):
....for the most part...the fact they only do 2 red-eyes on the transcon (and one day flight during the summer) at SJC, even while serving SJC for a while leads me to believe they aren't too strong in the SJC area...they are doing fine in the OAK-area..and lets see how they do in SFO....

Well keep in mind that SJC isn't as big of a market as OAK (or SFO for that matter). If you look at WN's presence in both markets, OAK has many more flights than SJC.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 46):
...hey, bring 'em all on...that's better fares and more photos @ SFO for me..

In the end, consumers and a.net members are all bound to gain!

JetBluefan1
 
halls120
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RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:16 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 30):
.I agree, if VA does hub in SFO, UA (and not B6) will have the most at risk, but I just cannot see UA not putting up one hell of a fight to protect its market dominance at SFO.

UA will protect SFO the same way they protected IAD when B6 moved in. I fly IAD-OAK several time a year. The entry of B6 on that route prompted UA to lower fares and increase frequency.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 9):
They only said it was going to be their operational hq. This is where they will staff their flight operations personal, training, dispatch, reservations, etc.

Speaking of such, you can now see the big red "Virgin America" sign on (what I assume to be) their HQ from the 101 freeway. Also there are (count 'em) three airbuses over by the Signature terminal. Golly!  Wink