Horus
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EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:47 am

Soon after announcing new flights to Kuala Lumpur, the airline has confirmed the next destinations to be launched will be Guangzhou (3x weekly B777 via BKK) and Lisbon, the Portuguese capital. This is part of the airline's continued effort to enhance operations and connectivity. The schedules are yet to be published but flights will start this summer.

In addition the airline has joined other shareholders to launch a new subsidiary specialising in the use of small VIP passenger jets for corporate and personal air travel. The new Smart Aviation Company will use Cessna Citation jets with a capacity for 10 passengers. The first 3 aircraft will arrive during the first quarter of 2007. The fleet will expand as activities increase.

This summer EgyptAir will offer 19% more flights as it adds new destinations and increases frequencies across its current network. In 2007, two B738s will join the mainline fleet and 6 E-170s will arrive this summer to launch EgyptAir Express.


Horus
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting Horus (Thread starter):
Soon after announcing new flights to Kuala Lumpur, the airline has confirmed the next destinations to be launched will be Guangzhou (3x weekly B777 via BKK)

It seems to me that China is getting more service from this region of the world. I don't know the case in Egypt but in Algeria we have a lot of Chinese construction workers and contractors working on projects alll over the country. Is this the case in Egypt? If so i guess a Guangzhou service is warranted. AH should jump on the band-wagon and start China service seeing how TK has a virtual monopoly on the China-Algeria route. Anyway, great news for EgyptAir and hopefully more to come.

Cheers,
Imad
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MSYYZ
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:00 pm

Thanks for the update Horus , I was expecting Shanghai as their next Chinese destination .
But Guangzhou , being the third largest metropolitan city in China with about 12 Million inhabitants is still a viable choice .
Guangzhou is the economic centre of the Pearl River Delta and is the heart of one of mainland China's leading commercial and manufacturing regions. In 2006, the GDP exceeded ¥600 billions(USD 76.8 billions), per capita was ¥85,000 (about US $11,000),
As labor costs increased in Hong Kong, manufacturers opened new plants in the cities of Guangdong including Guangzhou. As the largest city in one of China's wealthiest provinces .
I believe Ethiopian flies to Guangzhou via Bangkok and Kenya airways flies there via Dubai .

Regarding Lisbon , that would be a re-start to the route , MS used to serve Lisbon in the early 2000's .

Good news .
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Captintut
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:24 am

Horus,
Thanks for the Good news, seems to me MS is trying to strength the Asian routes, I guess next route they would be looking should be HKG.

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 2):
Regarding Lisbon , that would be a re-start to the route , MS used to serve Lisbon in the early 2000's .

does any one knows what was the load on this route?

Congrats MS.
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Horus
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting AH332 (Reply 1):
It seems to me that China is getting more service from this region of the world. I don't know the case in Egypt but in Algeria we have a lot of Chinese construction workers and contractors working on projects alll over the country. Is this the case in Egypt? If so i guess a Guangzhou service is warranted.

Arguably Guangzhou is the industrial and manufacturing powerhouse of China, and EgyptAir's feasibility studies revealed that the business opportunities from launching a CAN service outweighed PVG. Furthermore Chinese tourist numbers to Egypt have rapidly increased since 2004 with 65,000 visiting last year (39% higher than 2005).

The schedule for the route will be revealed imminently (slot issues at CAN are being resolved). In addition the Egyptian CAA are working with their Chinese counterparts to approve fifth freedom rights on the BKK-CAN-BKK sector. Currently the Egypt-China bilateral agreement only allows EgyptAir fifth freedom rights on 5 services from BKK (4 are already used on the BKK-PEK service), so negotiations are taking place to increase this to 7 fifth freedom frequencies.


On a separate note, seeing how you host the Algerian flag, the Algerian authorities are giving Egypt a hard time to gain more access to ALG. They verbally give EgyptAir permission to increase flights but continue to backtrack on their promises. Do you perhaps have an insight into the motives of the Algerian CAA?

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 2):

Regarding Lisbon , that would be a re-start to the route , MS used to serve Lisbon in the early 2000's .



Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 3):
does any one knows what was the load on this route?

EgyptAir previously operated a 1x weekly CAI-MAD-LIS-CAI A320 triangle service which was terminated a few years back. Clearly with that routing, frequency and capacity the service was not going to generate any revenue. CaptinTut I will try and get the passenger figures for you.

I can reveal that the new service will be operated on a twice weekly basis with A320s and the target market will be passengers transferring onto TAP Portugal's South American services (and vice versa). A codeshare and interline agreement with TP Portugal should be completed by the end of the week. As a result the service will be timed to arrive and depart LIS to allow for easy connections on flights to GRU, GIG, EZE and other important South American centres. The current Egypt/Portugal bilateral only allows EgyptAir 2 weekly frequencies to LIS however this will be negotiated by year end to allow the carrier to strengthen its presence at the Star Alliance hub.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 3):
I guess next route they would be looking should be HKG.

Though there is no current plans for it, DEL is likely to be the next Asian destination. The airline has been granted 7 frequencies to India, and the CAI-BOM service will increase from 2 to 3x weekly A330 flights in June to coincide with the extension to KUL. Regarding the new KUL service, the Egyptian authorities are currently working with the Malaysians to gain fifth freedom rights on the BOM-KUL-BOM sectors (already approved by the Indians).


Horus
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 2):
But Guangzhou , being the third largest metropolitan city in China with about 12 Million inhabitants is still a viable choice .
Guangzhou is the economic centre of the Pearl River Delta and is the heart of one of mainland China's leading commercial and manufacturing regions. In 2006, the GDP exceeded  billions(USD 76.8 billions), per capita was 000 (about US $11,000),

Just to add a bit to this one. Guangzhou metropolian area has around 12 million inhabitants, but within just two hours drive in car, you'll have lots of million big urban areas, probably around 40-50 million people.

The per caipta GDP in Guangzhou was only around 7400$ in 2006. The other figure was propaganda by the communist party, not counting migrant workers. Almost as good a the 2004 and 2005 records in China Statistical Yearbook where Tibet ranges as the 1st and 2nd place in the highest average wage table Big grin
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AH332
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:40 am

Hi,

Quoting Horus (Reply 4):
Do you perhaps have an insight into the motives of the Algerian CAA?

First I hear of it actually. However, being from Egypt you know, as well as I, how bureaucracies work in our countries, slow and ineffective for the most part. That could be a reason.

Also, I'd like to ask if you knew how EgyptAir doing on their CAI-ALG route?

Cheers,
Imad
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:22 am

Very interesting news about LIS!

Quoting Horus (Reply 4):
A codeshare and interline agreement with TP Portugal should be completed by the end of the week. As a result the service will be timed to arrive and depart LIS to allow for easy connections on flights to GRU, GIG, EZE and other important South American centres.

So it would arrive at LIS in the evening, stay overnight, and leave the next morning.
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MAH4546
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 4):
As a result the service will be timed to arrive and depart LIS to allow for easy connections on flights to GRU, GIG, EZE and other important South American centres.

"Other important South American centres" from Lisbon? Lisbon has service to GIG, GRU, CCS, and secondary markets in Brazil. No Buenos Aires service from Lisbon.
a.
 
Horus
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting AH332 (Reply 6):
First I hear of it actually. However, being from Egypt you know, as well as I, how bureaucracies work in our countries, slow and ineffective for the most part. That could be a reason.

Well that's certainly a trait of this region.

Last summer EgyptAir was given the approval by the Algerians to increase flights from 2 to 3x weekly services, however 3 weeks before the new frequency was to start the Algerians withdrew the right. Once again this summer EgyptAir requested to increase flights from 2 to 4x weekly flights but earlier this week the Algerian authorities only approved one extra frequency. To make matters worse the Algerians also put restrictions on seats offered on the CAI-ALG route, so MS couldn't upgrade their A320 flights to the A321 or even A330.

Quoting AH332 (Reply 6):
Also, I'd like to ask if you knew how EgyptAir doing on their CAI-ALG route?

Very well, which is why they wanted to double services this summer. MS reported a loadfactor of 86.3% on the route (compared to AH's 61.4%)

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 7):
So it would arrive at LIS in the evening, stay overnight, and leave the next morning.

No, the service will arrive into LIS early in the morning and depart in the late morning. If you check TP's GRU and GIG flights they too depart and arrive LIS in the morning.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):

"Other important South American centres" from Lisbon? Lisbon has service to GIG, GRU, CCS, and secondary markets in Brazil. No Buenos Aires service from Lisbon.

Indeed TP do not serve EZE yet, my apologies. The service will mainly target the GRU market and both carriers will block buy seats on one another's flights.


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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 9):
No, the service will arrive into LIS early in the morning and depart in the late morning. If you check TP's GRU and GIG flights they too depart and arrive LIS in the morning.

You are right, of course. I mixed up their Brazil flights with their Africa flights, that MS would obviously not have to connect to.

It would give the CAI-LIS an awful departure time though, I reckon. Say it arrives at LIS at 07.00, and flight takes 5,5 hours, it would have to leave CAI at 03.30z (2 hours difference if I'm not mistaken). Although I remember taking a KL flight out of CAI at around that time of the night (still A310 then, in 1994) and at least you could get to the airport quickly!
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AH332
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:41 am

Hi,

I hear what your saying and it's a real shame. Couldn't tell what its about though  confused  .

Quoting Horus (Reply 9):
so MS couldn't upgrade their A320 flights to the A321 or even A330.

Honestly, seeing how good the load factors are, a 321 or 330 would be warranted. Also, I'd love to see MS 332s at ALG  Smile!

Cheers,
Imad
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Horus
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:16 am

The schedules have been uploaded for both CAN and LIS. A third flight will also be added to KUL.


Guangzhou:

effective 02JUN07

CAI CAN MS958 1-3--6- 23:15/16:55+1 12hr40min 1 B777 BKK
CAN CAI MS959 -2-4--7 20:55/05:55+1 14hr00min 1 B777 BKK



The airline will be granted fifth freedom rights on the BKK-CAI-BKK sectors with the following times:

BKK CAN MS958 -2-4--7 13:00/16:55 2hr55min 0 B777
CAN BKK MS959 -2-4--7 20:55/22:55 3hr00min 0 B777

With the introduction of this service BKK will be served with a daily B777 flight (4x weekly flights continue to PEK)




Lisbon:

The 2x weekly CAI-LIS-CAI A320 service has been uploaded into the reservation systems however the times have yet to be confirmed and are expected to change slightly.

effective 02JUN07

CAI LIS MS755 --3---- 03:55/07:50 5hr55min 0 A320
LIS CAI MS756 --3---- 11:15/18:15 5hr00min 0 A320

CAI LIS MS755 -----6- 03:05/07:00 5hr55min 0 A320
LIS CAI MS756 -----6- 08:30/15:30 5hr00min 0 A320



The flights will connect very well with TP's LIS-GRU-LIS and LIS-GIG-LIS services.




Kuala Lumpur:

effective 02JUN07

Though it was announced before CAN and LIS, Kuala Lumpur, which is also launched on 02JUN07 will get a frequency upgrade with the introduction of a third weekly (Monday) flight starting 02JUL07. Flights will route via BOM with A332s.

CAI BOM MS968 1-3--6- 03:00/11:10 5hr40min 0 A332
BOM KUL MS968 1-3--6- 12:10/19:50 5hr10min 0 A332
KUL BOM MS969 -2-4--7 00:40/03:10 5hr00min 0 A332
BOM CAI MS969 -2-4--7 04:10/07:50 6hr10min 0 A332


Note: the Monday MS968 and Tuesday MS969 start from 02JUL07

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 10):
It would give the CAI-LIS an awful departure time though, I reckon. Say it arrives at LIS at 07.00, and flight takes 5,5 hours, it would have to leave CAI at 03.30z (2 hours difference if I'm not mistaken). Although I remember taking a KL flight out of CAI at around that time of the night (still A310 then, in 1994) and at least you could get to the airport quickly!

As above, the departure times will either be 03:00 or 03:55 since the CAI-LIS sector will have a block time of 5hr55min. However as with many Middle Eastern airports, there is a lot of night time activity at CAI.

Here are a few services operated during the early hours of the morning:

MS883 to ASM @ 01:15
MS839 to JNB @ 02:25
SU342 to SVO @ 02:30
AF521 to CDG @ 02:40
MS853 to KRT @ 02:55
ET453 to ADD @ 02:55 (and 03:10)
RO102 to OTP @ 02:55 (and RO103 @ 05:10)
OK271 to PRG @ 02:55
GF80 to BAH @ 03:00
MS875 to LOS @ 03:30
MS968 to BOM/KUL @ 03:30
TK1143 to IST @ 03:30
OA326 to ATH @ 03:45
LY444 to TLV @ 03:45 (and 04:45)
SV304 to JED @ 03:55
KL554 to AMS @ 04:00
AZ883 to MXP @ 04:00
MA221 to BUD @ 04:10
IY744 to FCO @ 04:35
EY652 to AUH @ 04:50
MS245 to ASW @ 05:15
LH585 to FRA @ 05:35

Quoting AH332 (Reply 11):
Honestly, seeing how good the load factors are, a 321 or 330 would be warranted. Also, I'd love to see MS 332s at ALG Smile!

Imad, last summer when MS applied to increase services from 2 to 3x weekly flights, the third frequency was to be on an A330. Up until the AB6s were retired last year, they were deployed on one of the CAI-ALG flights.

Quoting Horus (Reply 4):
Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 3):
does any one knows what was the load on this route?

EgyptAir previously operated a 1x weekly CAI-MAD-LIS-CAI A320 triangle service which was terminated a few years back. Clearly with that routing, frequency and capacity the service was not going to generate any revenue. CaptinTut I will try and get the passenger figures for you.

CaptinTut, its proved difficult to get exact figures on MS's previous venture in LIS. What I can reveal is that in its final year of operation the weekly CAI-MAD-LIS-CAI A320 flight had a loadfactor of 68.4% however the actual split of traffic between MAD and LIS is not available so its difficult to determine the O&D figures for the CAI-LIS market. However the target market of this new service is completely different to the previous venture as stated above.



Horus
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 12):
CAI CAN MS958 1-3--6- 23:15/16:55+1 12hr40min 1 B777 BKK
CAN CAI MS959 -2-4--7 20:55/05:55+1 14hr00min 1 B777 BKK

I'm surprised they wouldn't link their CAN flights to their existing LOS flights. I've heard demand on this route is booming.
 
Captintut
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 12):
CaptinTut, its proved difficult to get exact figures on MS's previous venture in LIS. What I can reveal is that in its final year of operation the weekly CAI-MAD-LIS-CAI A320 flight had a loadfactor of 68.4% however the actual split of traffic between MAD and LIS is not available so its difficult to determine the O&D figures for the CAI-LIS market. However the target market of this new service is completely different to the previous venture as stated above.

I Guess we will find out about soon, i was talking to a friend of mine that works for MS and he told the load factor is very good on most of their flights now, he can't say there is really a flight that have few people anymore which is good for them.
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Horus (Reply 4):
Regarding the new KUL service, the Egyptian authorities are currently working with the Malaysians to gain fifth freedom rights on the BOM-KUL-BOM sectors (already approved by the Indians).

Based on some information from the Malaysian Aviation Thread,

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 32):
Malaysia has agreed to allow India's Air Sahara to fly the Kuala Lumpur-New Delhi route. Transport Minister said this in response to reports in India that aviation authorities there had threatened to reduce landing rights for Malaysia Airlines (MAS) in a tit-for-tat move, which could have an impact on Malaysia's tourism industry. He said the issue had been resolved amicably after Malaysia agreed to allow the airline to fly the route.

It is believed that the Indians were resorting to such action after MAS allegedly asked that Air Sahara not be allowed to fly to Kuala Lumpur from New Delhi on grounds that passenger volume on the route was low.

In total, MAS flies 27 times to major Indian cities weekly while Indian Airlines, Air India and Jet Airways have a combined total of 56 flights to Kuala Lumpur each week.

It might be difficult but if things were to happen the same way to EgyptAir, I hope it will be resolved amicably.
 
Horus
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RE: EgyptAir To Launch Guangzhou, Lisbon And VIP Jet Operation

Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 13):
I'm surprised they wouldn't link their CAN flights to their existing LOS flights. I've heard demand on this route is booming

Both CAN and PEK are operated via BKK, with a schedule that allows maximum connectivity with the majority of the airline's services i.e. late evening departure from CAI after the last wave of flights arrive from Europe/Middle East and an early morning arrival to connect with busy morning departures.

The new LOS flights are timed as follows:

CAI LOS MS875 -2-45-7 03:30/07:00 5hr30min 0 B738
LOS CAI MS876 -2-45-7 09:30/16:45 5hr15min 0 B738

The flight connects better with the evening services to/from the Levant and Gulf regions including BEY, AMM, DAM, RUH, etc

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 14):
I Guess we will find out about soon, i was talking to a friend of mine that works for MS and he told the load factor is very good on most of their flights now, he can't say there is really a flight that have few people anymore which is good for them.

Load factors are improving but still below industry average. Check your IM.

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 15):
It might be difficult but if things were to happen the same way to EgyptAir, I hope it will be resolved amicably.

Given Malaysia's support for the service I'd expect rights to be awarded and MH to code share on the service.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation

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