cdfmxtech
Posts: 1319
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 11:37 am

McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:43 am

Anybody know which airlines logo are shown on this prototype?
Please accurate info only.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0392286/M/

Thanks in advance.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4465
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:45 am

Lets see, from what I can tell...AA, UA, KLM, Condor, National (?), DL (possibly?)
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:46 am

i see KLM, Finair, UA, LH, AA, JL and Swissair, I cant really see the others.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
rikkus67
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 11:34 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:49 am

looks like UTA and Lufthansa also....
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:01 am

First line: TIA (Trans International Airlines); KLM; SAS; Swissair; UTA; ONA (Overseas National); Air Afrique; Alitalia; ? ; Sabena; Lufthansa

Second line: Atlantis; Finnair; National; Iberia; Aeromexico ; ? ; ?

Probably also Viasa & Air New Zealand

All customers of the DC-10-30/-30CFs.

[Edited 2007-03-22 02:05:44]
 
RyDawg82
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:30 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 4):
First line: TIA (Trans International Airlines); KLM; SAS; Swissair; UTA; ONA (Overseas National); Air Afrique; Alitalia; ? ; Sabena; Lufthansa

Second line: Atlantis; Finnair; National; Iberia; Aeromexico ; ? ; ?

Probably also Viasa & Air New Zealand

OceansWorld named 15 of the 18, which check's against Terry Waddington's DC-10 book, and a DC-10 history website. Additionally Martinair Holland ordered the -30F (CF) in 1972, and Air Zaire and Pakistan International Airlines both made -30 orders in 1973. That would bring us up to 18, assuming those are the 3 add-ons.

-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18822
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:50 am

That first DC10-10 that made the first flight on August 29,1970 was delivered to AA over 2 years later in December 1972. Athough the N101AA registration made it look like AA's first DC-10, it was the 25th delivered to AA. It was of course the oldest. It was N10DC when it made the first flight. The AA photo was taken 30 years ago this month.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © S. M. Reeves
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.

 
cdfmxtech
Posts: 1319
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2000 11:37 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:55 am

Thanks to everyone who responded..................!!
Oceans...thanks alot for going by line. This all helps tremendously.
 
LH526
Crew
Posts: 1960
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2000 2:23 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:59 am

What I see is a perfect slide!
The colours are marvelous, the ssaturation and hues are so subtle and perfet, they beat a digital image hands down!
It this sort of appearance you will never achieve with digital sensors.

Mario
LH526
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
User avatar
iahcsr
Posts: 3568
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
That first DC10-10 that made the first flight on August 29,1970

.... And I was there at LGB to watch it do so....  bigthumbsup 
Working very hard to Fly Right....
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4465
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:08 pm

Quoting IAHcsr (Reply 9):
.... And I was there at LGB to watch it do so....

IAHcsr...what was your impression of CO's first -10's with the black meatball?
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
VC10DC10
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:56 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:08 pm

Quoting Lh526 (Reply 8):
What I see is a perfect slide!
The colours are marvelous, the ssaturation and hues are so subtle and perfet, they beat a digital image hands down!
It this sort of appearance you will never achieve with digital sensors.

Amen to that! Absolutely perfect photography, complementing a (nearly) perfect aircraft.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:16 pm

Loved the photo , spent ages being puzzled by one thing .

NZ ( or as they were back then , TE ) were one of the earliest customers for the -30 ( IIRC they took delivery of their first one only a couple of months after launch customer KL ) and yet I could not find an NZ/TE 'badge' .

Then , I had my "DOH!" moment , the "Koru" was introduced into the livery with the delivery of ZK-NZL , their first DC-10 , so I was looking for the wrong logo .


Are there any long long long term TE/NZ people out there who can tell me which of the logos on the side was the pre-Koru Air New Zealand one , I assume that it must have been on there somewhere ?
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:54 pm

When growing up, one of my neighbors was a DC-10 project engineer. He was extremely proud of the aircraft - his car and garage was covered with DC-10 logo. When it started experiencing problems, he was devastated. I remember my dad commenting that he thought Larry was going to have a nervous breakdown - very sad.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 5):
and Air Zaire and Pakistan International Airlines both made -30 orders in 1973. That would bring us up to 18, assuming those are the 3 add-ons.

But the picture was made June 23rd, 1972, so we can't count this two as customer yet.

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 5):
OceansWorld named 15 of the 18, which check's against Terry Waddington's DC-10 book, and a DC-10 history website. Additionally Martinair Holland ordered the -30F (CF) in 1972

Indeed, MP ordered one DC-10-30CF February 25th, 1972; Viasa ordered two on April 12th & Aeromexico (2) June 6th.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 12):
Are there any long long long term TE/NZ people out there who can tell me which of the logos on the side was the pre-Koru Air New Zealand one , I assume that it must have been on there somewhere ?

The same as the one before the first door, but perhaps pointing to the right. At least I've seen it on a picture of the prototype that went to the Paris Air Show in the early 70s.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Krepp



Alright, a bit of history. As off October 1972 orders + options were as follow (according to Interavia):

DC-10-30

AeroMexico 2
Air Afrique 3 + 2
Air New Zealand 3 + 1
Alitalia 4 + 6
Atlantis 2
Finnair 2
Iberia 3 + 5
KLM 6 + 6
Lufthansa 4 + 5
National 5 + 3
SAS 5 + 3
Swissair 6 + 5
UTA 4 + 4
VIASA 2

DC-10-30CF

Martinair 1
Overseas National 3 + 3
Sabena 2 + 4
Trans International 3 + 1
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:52 pm

Quoting IAHcsr (Reply 9):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
That first DC10-10 that made the first flight on August 29,1970

.... And I was there at LGB to watch it do so....

I was there for the first MD11 flight and the first C17 flight.


 bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ord
Posts: 1354
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:39 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 1):
Lets see, from what I can tell...AA, UA, KLM, Condor, National (?), DL (possibly?)

There are no logos from AA, UA, DL, etc. on the plane in the photo. They were not DC-10-30 customers.
 
Woosie
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 3:47 pm

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 15):
Quoting IAHcsr (Reply 9):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
That first DC10-10 that made the first flight on August 29,1970

.... And I was there at LGB to watch it do so....

I was there for the first MD11 flight and the first C17 flight.

Fair enough - me too! I was there for the entire production run of MD-11s, MD-90s and 717s, including their first flights. I was there for the T-45, MD-10 and C-17A 1st flights too. I'm still there, though working for Boeing.

I'm here to tell you that Boeing is a terrific company; it's exciting to be part of it.

Dougloid - remember how wierd Bldg 84 was during the switch-over from DC-10 to MD-11 - a very big bldg EMPTY!!
 
C133
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:34 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:52 pm

I'm on a small screen and can't be sure, but is AAL on that picture? They never bought a factory new -30. All that AA had were from the used market. Also, I'm just about positive N101AA was an early delivery (say, 3rd or 4th), not 25th. It was refurbished and delivered as soon as it was released from the certification program. Douglas didn't keep it all that long.
Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
 
ealflyer
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:03 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting Cdfmxtech (Thread starter):
Please accurate info only.

You only get accurate info on A-net!  Wink
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting C133 (Reply 18):
but is AAL on that picture?

No.

Quoting C133 (Reply 18):
They never bought a factory new -30. All that AA had were from the used market.

AA had up to 11 DC-10-30s, all second hands. Four ex. PA; one ex. KLM; one ex. VIASA; one ex. Air Pacific and four ex. Air NZ.

Quoting C133 (Reply 18):
Also, I'm just about positive N101AA was an early delivery (say, 3rd or 4th), not 25th.

Don't go that far.

N101AA rego was first used on the second DC-10 built while it was with the manufacturer. In 1972, this changed to N10DC as that aircraft was kept by MDC as test aircraft until June 1977 when it was delivered to GK.

The original N10DC, DC-10 n° 1 on the production line was delivered to AA as N101AA in December 1972.
 
airtran717
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:48 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:45 pm

I have to say, that for myself, the thread title is a bit misleading. It speaks of a DC-10 prototype... this would lead one to believe that it could be a current prototype of some other platform of a plane that is no longer in production, and not the 1974 EIS that is described in the photo. Perhaps in the future, A.net could ask that posters be more specific with thread titles and such. Just my $0.02 worth.

717
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting Woosie (Reply 17):
Fair enough - me too! I was there for the entire production run of MD-11s, MD-90s and 717s, including their first flights. I was there for the T-45, MD-10 and C-17A 1st flights too. I'm still there, though working for Boeing.

I'm here to tell you that Boeing is a terrific company; it's exciting to be part of it.

Dougloid - remember how wierd Bldg 84 was during the switch-over from DC-10 to MD-11 - a very big bldg EMPTY!!

It was pretty empty. I worked there from 1987 to 1992 when I got laid off. I started in development inspection and worked on the MD11, MD80 and C17 development fixtures. My boss Harry Decker was a go getter so his crew moved out into the hangar and I worked a lot of hydraulic runs in 447, got trained on cargo door and passenger door rigging, did the first article inspection on the cargo doors of 447 and ended up on the flight ramp/repair station.

It was a good place to work fo sho.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting AirTran717 (Reply 21):
I have to say, that for myself, the thread title is a bit misleading. It speaks of a DC-10 prototype... this would lead one to believe that it could be a current prototype of some other platform of a plane that is no longer in production, and not the 1974 EIS that is described in the photo. Perhaps in the future, A.net could ask that posters be more specific with thread titles and such. Just my $0.02 worth.

I really don't see any problem with the title. The picture is not just about the 1974 EIS as you say. That information is just an added detail about which airline received the aircraft. It is chiefly the picture of the very first DC-10-30 (prototype) photographed just two days after it has made its maiden flight. And the thread starter is quite clear with his post:

Quoting Cdfmxtech (Thread starter):
Anybody know which airlines logo are shown on this prototype?

You can't put absolutly every details on the title. There's no room for it, and even if you could, what sense would it do ? Nothing but the title ? I believe that most A.net members know pretty well that the DC-10 won't see any major transformation for commercial operators like the two men cockpit change ten years ago, or a whole brand new version that would require a prototype like the one on the picture.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting Cdfmxtech (Thread starter):
Anybody know which airlines logo are shown on this prototype?

Thanks to OceansWorld here's your answer. 18 stickers ....... 18 customers.

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 14):
DC-10-30

AeroMexico
Air Afrique
Air New Zealand
Alitalia
Atlantis
Finnair
Iberia
KLM
Lufthansa
National
SAS
Swissair
UTA
VIASA


DC-10-30CF

Martinair
Overseas National
Sabena
Trans International
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
C133
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:34 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 20):
N101AA rego was first used on the second DC-10 built while it was with the manufacturer. In 1972, this changed to N10DC as that aircraft was kept by MDC as test aircraft until June 1977 when it was delivered to GK.

The original N10DC, DC-10 n° 1 on the production line was delivered to AA as N101AA in December 1972.

Right you are, OceansWorld! I didn't know this. Ln 1 was test flown as N10DC and delivered to AA as N101AA, while Ln 2 was test flown as N101AA and kept at Douglas as N10DC. How weird is that? And 101 was delivered in the same month as N125AA, the last of the original order, so I was wrong about that too. Sorry.......

I will go out on a limb again and say that as I remember, the initial DC-10 delivery ceremony at Long Beach was held jointly for AA and United with each company's respective airplane nose to nose. After the hoopla was over there was a scramble to see which airplane would be the first to depart. The United guys made it to the runway first, but had to abort the take-off when one of the cockpit sliding windows blew open below V1, allowing the American airplane to take the 'honor' of first delivered DC-10 to depart Long Beach.
Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting C133 (Reply 25):
I didn't know this. Ln 1 was test flown as N10DC and delivered to AA as N101AA, while Ln 2 was test flown as N101AA and kept at Douglas as N10DC. How weird is that?

In early December 1972, the first two DC-10s exchanged identities. Initially, Ship One had been fittingly registered as N10DC and Ship Two wore N101AA to reflect its planned delivery to American Airlines. However, Ship Two was still completing autoland trials as its contractual delivery date approached. Ship One had finished its test program, so an agreement was reached to refurbish it for delivery to American as N101AA to keep American's fleet sequence unsullied.

From: McDonnell Douglas DC-10, by Terry Waddington - ISBN 189243704X.

A very good book jammed of interesting details.

[Edited 2007-03-22 19:31:52]
 
AlecxiA319
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:07 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:07 am

I thought I saw,
Lufthansa, T.W.A., and Alitalia
AlecxiA319
 
kiwiandrew

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting AlecxiA319 (Reply 27):
I thought I saw,
Lufthansa, T.W.A. and Alitalia

to the best of my knowledge TW never had DC-10 on order , on option , on lease - they were an L-1011 airline
 
AlecxiA319
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:07 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:12 am

Oh, sorry...
that's right!
AlecxiA319
 
richierich
Posts: 3282
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:47 am

Who ordered the Turkish plane that crashed near Paris in 1974? I don't see THY on the list of airlines that ordered the ships from the factory, so I am assuming it was sold or leased.
None shall pass!!!!
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 30):
Who ordered the Turkish plane that crashed near Paris in 1974? I don't see THY on the list of airlines that ordered the ships from the factory, so I am assuming it was sold or leased.

TK had DC-10-10s, while this is a DC-10-30. But in fact, TK wasn't the original customer of these aircraft.
 
User avatar
Braybuddy
Posts: 5851
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:57 am

Last thing I want to do is sound like an old fogey (okay, I sound like an old fogey), but why is it that, after looking at the beautiful photos above (plus any of the Tristar), that I get misty eyed? I can't imagine the 787/A350 ever doing that for me.

Why do all the 3-holers make my heart skip a beat: the Trident, 727, and eerily beautiful Tu-154???????
 
User avatar
iahcsr
Posts: 3568
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:06 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 10):
IAHcsr...what was your impression of CO's first -10's with the black meatball?

I didn't join CO until 1988, after the black meatball became red, but the 'pub' interiors were still around for a few years after I showed up. The pubs were very nice ... and as I recall were unique in the US market.
Working very hard to Fly Right....
 
kiwiandrew

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting IAHcsr (Reply 33):
I didn't join CO until 1988, after the black meatball became red,

sorry for going OT but I always wondered why they switched the black meatball to red - it never looked as good (IMHO ) , do remember a few cruel jokes about it being changed to match the colour of CO's balance sheet - any long term CO people have any theories about the meatball going from 'cooked' to 'raw' ?
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 32):
Last thing I want to do is sound like an old fogey (okay, I sound like an old fogey), but why is it that, after looking at the beautiful photos above (plus any of the Tristar), that I get misty eyed? I can't imagine the 787/A350 ever doing that for me.

Why do all the 3-holers make my heart skip a beat: the Trident, 727, and eerily beautiful Tu-154???????

Dude, you gotta get in touch with your inner geezer. Somewhere or other around this joint I've got a little book called "Building an Airliner" and it is about the Trident. Really cool stuff.

Here's something to use as wallpaper.


Big version: Width: 1260 Height: 1233 File size: 156kb
DC10 Jolly Jet
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Ned Kelly
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 8:14 am

RE: McDonnell Douglas DC-10 Prototype

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 26):
In early December 1972, the first two DC-10s exchanged identities. Initially, Ship One had been fittingly registered as N10DC and Ship Two wore N101AA to reflect its planned delivery to American Airlines. However, Ship Two was still completing autoland trials as its contractual delivery date approached. Ship One had finished its test program, so an agreement was reached to refurbish it for delivery to American as N101AA to keep American's fleet sequence unsullied.

Thanks for that, I always wondered what the reason was why ship #1 was re-registered and delivered to AA as N101AA.

Quoting C133 (Reply 25):
I will go out on a limb again and say that as I remember, the initial DC-10 delivery ceremony at Long Beach was held jointly for AA and United with each company's respective airplane nose to nose. After the hoopla was over there was a scramble to see which airplane would be the first to depart. The United guys made it to the runway first, but had to abort the take-off when one of the cockpit sliding windows blew open below V1, allowing the American airplane to take the 'honor' of first delivered DC-10 to depart Long Beach.

Nice story.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AeroDF747, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], flyDTW1992, Google Adsense [Bot], ikolkyo, PlanesNTrains, QANTAS747-438, Qatara340, rjm717, SCQ83, sdtr5zgttg, tcaeyx, WIederling, Wingtips56, YYJTurk and 165 guests