aircanada014
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Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:28 pm

Hi I was wondering if any airline order B777-300 non ER?
 
NYC777
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:30 pm

No t since the 300ER went on sale. The last non ER -300 was delievere to CX this year I believe.
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EI321
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting AirCanada014 (Thread starter):
Hi I was wondering if any airline order B777-300 non ER?

These airlines have 773A models:

Japan Airlines
ANA
Cathy Pacific
Thai
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:41 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
These airlines have 773A models:

Japan Airlines
ANA
Cathy Pacific
Thai

Emirates also has them. In fact, EK has ALL the 777 models every produced by type (ex. for the 77L which it will have later this year)
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PEET7G
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:41 pm

I might have a problem understanding your question, do you mean ever or since the -300ER entered into service? There are quit a few non ER operators of the dash 300 version (JL, NH, SQ, EK, CX, KE, TG) I think some 60 have been delivered. However there are no undelivered orders.
Peet7G
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
These airlines have 773A models:

Japan Airlines
ANA
Cathy Pacific
Thai

You're missing a few.

Emirates
Singapore Airlines
Korean Air
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
maddy
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
These airlines have 773A models:

Japan Airlines
ANA
Cathy Pacific
Thai

What´s with Emirates?
 
EI321
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 5):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
These airlines have 773A models:

Japan Airlines
ANA
Cathy Pacific
Thai

You're missing a few.

Emirates
Singapore Airlines
Korean Air

Thanks, I thought I was missing a few!
 
WINGS
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:53 pm

A total of 60 B777-300 have been ordered and delivered.

JAL x 7
ILFC x 8
Korean x 4
Singapore Airlines x 12
Singapore Leasing x 4
Cathay Pacific x 12
ANA x 7
Thai x 6

Total: 60 frames.


Cathay Pacific was indeed the last airline to receive the B777-300, on the 27th of July, 2006.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):


Quoting AirCanada014:
Hi I was wondering if any airline order B777-300 non ER?

Not since the 300ER went on sale.

That's not true.

Numerous orders have been placed for the -300 non-ER since the -300ER had begun taking orders:

31-May-2000....1 ILFC 777-300
28-Nov-2000....3 ILFC 777-300
28-Nov-2000....1 Singapore Airlines 777-300
29-May-2001....3 Singapore Airlines 777-300
31-May-2002....3 Cathay Pacific 777-300
11-Dec-2002....1 Singapore Airlines 777-300
29-Mar-2004....2 Cathay Pacific 777-300

(Considering the first major order for the -300ER was JAL on 31-Mar-2000 for 8)

Source: Boeing.com

Bryan
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jacobin777
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting Maddy (Reply 6):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
These airlines have 773A models:

Japan Airlines
ANA
Cathy Pacific
Thai

What´s with Emirates?

they buy and lease planes and make profits every year.... Wink

...in fact I'm flying on EK's B773 (non-er) DXB-LHR in a few weeks... bigthumbsup 
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trex8
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:00 pm

are all the ILFC planes with EK??
 
na
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:01 pm

The 777-300 in its basic version seems to be dead, even if it serves a totally different (that is regional) market as the 777-300ER. The 777-300 apparently makes a good successor for the Japanese domestic market formerly ruled by the 747SR, but I expect them to be the first 777s to be dumped by Emirates when the A380s and 773ERs (and hopefully 747-8Is) come into the fleet.
The only airlines I could see ordering more 777-300 "A" are JAL and ANA once they are retiring their 747-400Ds in the next decade.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 12):
The 777-300 in its basic version seems to be dead, even if it serves a totally different (that is regional) market as the 777-300ER. The 777-300 apparently makes a good successor for the Japanese domestic market formerly ruled by the 747SR, but I expect them to be the first 777s to be dumped by Emirates when the A380s and 773ERs (and hopefully 747-8Is) come into the fleet.
The only airlines I could see ordering more 777-300 "A" are JAL and ANA once they are retiring their 747-400Ds in the next decade.

I totally disagree.....while at the moment, the spotlight is on the very capable 773ER, the 773A does have a future as a niche aircraft (it was never a big seller) for markets where airlines need to move lots of passengers on medium haul flights......the types of routes that the 773 is now flying. As demand increases, so will the airlines' need for 773As. For intra-Asia routes up, certain Europe-Africa and Europe-MidEast/Gulf routes, and for other high demand shorter haul routes(like the DXB-India routes), the 773A is ideal.......while the 773ER is one hell of an airplane, but all of that capability comes at a price: its heavier, more expensive to operate on shorter haul segments, and costs much more to purchase/lease. As for fleet flexibility, most airlines prefer a different configuration for medium haul segments and longhaul segments.....even if its the exact same type, airlines cannot rotate all aircraft throughout their system. For example, longhual routes have the latest sleep seats/suites in F/J class, the most advanced IFE, an F class cabin, more seats for J class pax, all things necessary for long haul; on aircraft dedicated to medium haul services, F class may be omitted, different types of J class seating may be offered, etc. Thus, we could see more airlines flying mixed 773A/773ER fleets in the future. Long story short, we will see more 773s ordered and built in the future.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 8):
Cathay Pacific was indeed the last airline to receive the B777-300, on the 27th of July, 2006.

Incidentally Cathay being the launch customer was the first to receive the B773 in May 1998.
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aircanada014
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:52 am

wow thanks everyone. I thought most of the 300s where ER not non ERs...
 
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N328KF
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:57 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 15):
wow thanks everyone. I thought most of the 300s where ER not non ERs...

Huh? 60 777-300s have been delivered, but 75 777-300ERs were delivered through February 28th.
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legoguy
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:09 am

Are there any 777-300 aircraft left to be delivered? Or is it all just 77L, 77W and 772ER models left to be delivered?
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
PEET7G
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 17):
Are there any 777-300 aircraft left to be delivered?

 Wink Nope:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 4):
There are quit a few non ER operators of the dash 300 version (JL, NH, SQ, EK, CX, KE, TG) I think some 60 have been delivered. However there are no undelivered orders.
Peet7G
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
the 773A is ideal.......while the 773ER is one hell of an airplane, but all of that capability comes at a price: its heavier, more expensive to operate on shorter haul segments, and costs much more to purchase/lease.

History and recent precedent heavily suggest otherwise.

SQ and TG are perfect examples:
They're rather spend more to "abuse" 772ERs than purchase the 772As that more closely resemble the mission-profile intended for most of their fleet. SQ even goes so far as to publically label most of their 772ERs as non-extended range 772s (for whatever inane reason  Yeah sure)
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legoguy
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 18):
However there are no undelivered orders.

I completely missed that! My mistake! LOL, Thanks for pointing it out  Smile

Is there much difference between maintaining a 773 original and a 773ER (e.g. Singapore Airlines). Apart from the engines, is the maintence the same, or do the difference undercarriage effect the maintence slightly?
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
JAM747
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:15 am

What is the range difference between the non ER 777s and the ER versions?
 
Carpethead
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 17):
Or is it all just 77L, 77W and 772ER models left to be delivered?

There's still a JL 772 JA773J to be delivered later this spring.

Most people's assessment is that the 772 & 773 in their basic form is dead other than top off orders for 744D replacement from JL & NH but even this seems unlikely.
 
SQno1
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 21):
What is the range difference between the non ER 777s and the ER versions?

Maximum Range For Boeing 777-200A: 9649km
Maximum Range For Boeing 777-200ER: 14316km
Maximum Range For Boeing 777-300A: 11029km
Maximum Range For Boeing 777-300ER: 14594km
Maximum Range For Boeing 777-200LR: 17446km

Taken From Boeing's Website

With Regards,
Alex  wave 
 
kaitak744
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:13 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 19):
History and recent precedent heavily suggest otherwise.

SQ and TG are perfect examples:
They're rather spend more to "abuse" 772ERs than purchase the 772As that more closely resemble the mission-profile intended for most of their fleet. SQ even goes so far as to publically label most of their 772ERs as non-extended range 772s (for whatever inane reason Yeah sure)

Only Singapore supports that. Thai uses their 777-200ERs on long haul routes, and they have 777-200As. Also, Singapore recently leased A330-300s to replace some old (intra-Asia) 777-200ERs. This shows that they are starting to move away from the "one aircraft fits all range" philosophy.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 8):
A total of 60 B777-300 have been ordered and delivered.

JAL x 7
ILFC x 8
Korean x 4
Singapore Airlines x 12
Singapore Leasing x 4
Cathay Pacific x 12
ANA x 7
Thai x 6

Total: 60 frames.

Who got the Singapore Leasing planes? I take it Emirates took all the ILFC?
Also, once enough 777-300ERs are delivered, and the 777-300A leases come off, will Emirates renew them, of let the aircraft go.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 22):
Most people's assessment is that the 772 & 773 in their basic form is dead other than top off orders for 744D replacement from JL & NH but even this seems unlikely.

They what will JL and NH replace their 744Ds with? 777-300A seems like the best option, and it is very unlikely that Boeing will build a 747-8D.


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Launch titles show Asiana and Malaysian as launch customers of the 777-300. What happen to their order?
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 24):

Launch titles show Asiana and Malaysian as launch customers of the 777-300. What happen to their order?

I thought ASsiana had some 300A or 200A versions.

MCOflyer
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Carpethead
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 24):
They what will JL and NH replace their 744Ds with?

783 is a candidate.
To make a long story short; with 9-abreast seating, it will seat around 300 seats and these can replace the 772 & 773.
Then the 772s & 773s which have higher seating than the 783 can replace the 744Ds.
This is due to large number of slots expected to open up in 2010 as HND will finally build the fourth runway.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 24):
Thai uses their 777-200ERs on long haul routes

What routes do they use their 772ERs on that their -A market aircraft are incapable of?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
emirates773
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:46 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 24):
Who got the Singapore Leasing planes? I take it Emirates took all the ILFC?

ILFC: Boeing 777-31H

A6-EMO
A6-EMP
A6-EMQ
A6-EMR
A6-EMT
A6-EMV
A6-EMW
A6-EMX

SALE (Singapore Aircraft Leasing Enterprise): Boeing 777-31H

A6-EMM
A6-EMN
A6-EMS
A6-EMU
 
Norcal773
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:07 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
...in fact I'm flying on EK's B773 (non-er) DXB-LHR in a few weeks...

So you're not flying on a Merriman, just a MEGA-MASSIVE! Traitor.  biggrin 
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SQno1
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:07 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 27):
What routes do they use their 772ERs on that their -A market aircraft are incapable of?

TG 940 BKK-MXP 00:40-07:20 Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday
TG 942 BKK-MXP 09:00-15:40 Sunday
TG 941 MXP-BKK 14:30-06:10 + 1 Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday
TG 943 MXP-BKK 17:10-08:50 + 1 Sunday

That's one confirmed routing for the Boeing 777-200ERs of Thai, but I believe the rest of the time they are used alongside the Boeing 777-200As. Looking at the photo database, they have also been spotted in BNE and MEL, but I would have thought the A aircraft you operate these sectors comfortably.

Alex  Smile
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:32 pm

...pay closer attention please, that response does not address my question at all.
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trex8
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:15 pm

BKK-MXP is 4900nm, won't that be pushing the limits for a 772A or 773?
 
bhxdtw
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 3):
Emirates also has them. In fact, EK has ALL the 777 models every produced by type (ex. for the 77L which it will have later this year)

Do they have the early 777-200 A model that Varig has recently disposed of and was the first B777 to be dismantled..??

J  Smile
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 33):
Do they have the early 777-200 A model that Varig has recently disposed of and was the first B777 to be dismantled..??

Well, they wouldn't have every 777 model if they didn't now would they?

EK operates three 777-200A


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YULWinterSkies
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 32):
BKK-MXP is 4900nm, won't that be pushing the limits for a 772A or 773?

Guess not :

Quoting SQNo1 (Reply 23):
Maximum Range For Boeing 777-300A: 11029km

Not exactly a short-haul aircraft...

There are plenty of airlines who don't need all that range in their current network.
When I doubt... go running!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 19):
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
the 773A is ideal.......while the 773ER is one hell of an airplane, but all of that capability comes at a price: its heavier, more expensive to operate on shorter haul segments, and costs much more to purchase/lease.

History and recent precedent heavily suggest otherwise

Understood and agreed, but I am not sure that the 767 story (where airlines lost interest in the A market versions of both the 762 and 763 once the ER versions were introduced) will repeat itself with the 773. One issue is cost, 773ERs do not come cheap, they are expensive toys, and airlines have become much more cost consious in the recent years; another issue is the high price of fuel, why fly around the heavier 773ER with all of that extra weight on short to medium haul routes when a lighter and more effecient 773A can handle the routes; also, the 773A is an ideal airplane for very high demand intra-Asia routes and Asia-Australia routes (some of which are still flown by 747s) where Asian carriers need lots of seats......the 777 has been a big success with Asian carriers while the 767 was not; and, the 773A does have quite a bit of range, its not exactly a limited shorthaul airplane. Just some ideas to consider......as we know, as long as the 777 line is open, Boeing can offer and produce 773As, its not as if Boeing must make a business decision as to whether to continue offering the 773A, the market will decide.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 35):
There are plenty of airlines who don't need all that range in their current network.

I agree......in time the market and not Boeing will decide the future of the 773A.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:13 am

Everyone thought the 767 pax was dead too, and yet it's seen some orders, even from Japan. So you never know, there may be a few more 773s left to be built. But very few. I highly doubt there will be another 777-200A ordered though, as their resale is likely for shit.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 24):
They what will JL and NH replace their 744Ds with? 777-300A seems like the best option, and it is very unlikely that Boeing will build a 747-8D.

I think the "progressive" replacement is the plan, as stated. 773 high density will replace the heaviest 747D routes, while the 783 in a 300 seat configuration will fill in for where the 773 and 772 may have been a little overkill. And yes, the increased capacity at HND will help this a lot. Most of this will be done by introducing the 783 to the fleets, and shifting aircraft around, but again, you can't rule out a few new build 777-300.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 32):
BKK-MXP is 4900nm, won't that be pushing the limits for a 772A or 773?

Yes for the 772, no for the 773. 773 can do most routes the 747 classics could do. The 772 has shorter legs, so you would be payload restricted going 4900nm against the wind. The 777-300 is a far more capable and useful aircraft than the 777-200A.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Any Airliner Ordered B777-300 Non ER?

Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
when a lighter and more effecient 773A can handle the routes

only problem being that "the routes" (i.e., those requiring high capacity on relatively short-haul) seem to exist only in Asia, as even more evident by the fact that only Asian airlines ordered or operate the 773A.

Anywhere else would pose an enormous risk of drastic market shift. That was AA's conclusion in 2000, when they were on the cusp of ordering 773As and (wisely) decided against them.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!