BA84
Topic Author
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Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:52 am

The Captain is not wearing his shoulder belt.
Is this a safety violation, or is it allowed?


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IAHFLYR
Posts: 3943
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:01 am

In the U.S. the shoulder belts are only required for ground movement, take-off and landings, otherwise they can be stowed as the Captain has done in the picture.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
BA84
Topic Author
Posts: 184
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:07 am

IAHflyr,

Thanks for info on that point.

BA84
 
MD88Captain
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:11 am

I actually didn't know it was required for ground movements. I usually just put them on for takeoff and landing.
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 3):
I actually didn't know it was required for ground movements. I usually just put them on for takeoff and landing.

LOL...wow....     I recall that is an FAR you learn while you're getting your private license, atleast in the last 10 years.

[Edited 2007-03-25 00:10:35]
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3943
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 3):
I actually didn't know it was required for ground movements

Me either till I read it in some obscure reg about shoulder harnesses.  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
siromega
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting Iahflyr (Reply 1):
In the U.S. the shoulder belts are only required for ground movement, take-off and landings, otherwise they can be stowed as the Captain has done in the picture.



Quoting From the Pic's Caption:
Banking hard over the Mediterranean Sea after takeoff from runway 25L on our flight from BCN to SZG.

So how quickly after takeoff is it allowable? 1500 AGL? 10,000 ft?
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 6):
10,000 ft?

This is the usual altitude that things happen, sterile cockpit etc..... etc....
Keep the shinny side up!
 
CaptainTim
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:06 am

The FAR Part 29 states only during taxi, take off and landing, this guy seems like he's just taken off..

he's set to climb to FL190 maybe he's already reached 10,000+ and he's climbing 1200FPM on the VSI so.. probably he is allowed to take off his seatbelt

hey we can complain about the cell phone at the bottom of the picture  Wink  Silly
Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
 
ACDC8
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting CaptainTim (Reply 8):
hey we can complain about the cell phone at the bottom of the picture

Must be a company phone, I'm sure most pilots have better taste and can afford a nicer mobile then that one ....  Silly
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
MD88Captain
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:35 am

We do not even have shoulder harness on the checklist anymore. And it used to be on the Before Takeoff. I've been in violation for many, many years... and probably will be for many more.
 
CaptainTim
Posts: 378
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:41 pm

i think FAR states shoulder harness is not required! but says put it on if there are shoulder harnesses available....

= stupid FARs... haha
Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
 
Baron52ta
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:52 am

RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:06 pm

Quoting CaptainTim (Reply 8):
The FAR Part 29 states only during taxi, take off and landing, this guy seems like he's just taken off..

The Federal Air Regs don't apply anyway as it is not an American company ,who ever is governing body makes their rules. The FAA license is all but useless outside the USA or US registered aircraft.
 
nrcnyc
Posts: 82
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:15 pm

You mean we don't controll everything? This news to me.





That FAR was on my private pilot written test.
 
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zeke
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:40 pm

Quoting BA84 (Thread starter):
Is this a safety violation, or is it allowed?

The airline would follow the rules of the Letové prevádzkové služby Slovenskej republiky (Slovakia CAA) which says that the seat belt shall be worn at all times by a pilot, with the addition of the shoulder harness during takeoff and landing phases.

To me it looks like the cabin seat belt sign is also in AUTO on the overhead panel.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
A330
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:55 pm

The Captain is actually one of SkyEurope's finest and also the Head of Training. Top guy.
Why do these teen plane spotters always think bad things when seeing a flight-deck picture... sad and one of the reasons why a lot of my collegues don't allow you guys into our "office" anymore.
Thomas, if you read this, hope all is fine with you!!

an ex. Collegue
Shiek!
 
airbelgium
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:45 pm

I totally agree with A330: It seems that every time a picture of a flightdeck appears on this forum it is put under the loop and somebody will come up with something bad or "safety" related. I guess it's a good thing we don't allow pictures at our workplace...
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Safety Violation?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting Airbelgium (Reply 16):
I guess it's a good thing we don't allow pictures at our workplace...

Agreed. At least that captain knows what hes doing.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Bohlman
Posts: 263
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RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:01 am

I actually thought that BA84's question was phrased in a very polite way. He simply had a question. Rather than some people here, who will post questions as a scandalized accusation (look at this blatant safety violation, how can you get away with this?!?) he asked it in a civil way and immediately thanked the poster who answered him. Not everybody knows everything about flying.
I'm not pro-Boeing or pro-Airbus, I'm pro-crew all the way.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting A330 (Reply 15):
The Captain is actually one of SkyEurope's finest and also the Head of Training. Top guy.

No single doubt about that.

Quoting Airbelgium (Reply 16):
I totally agree with A330: It seems that every time a picture of a flightdeck appears on this forum it is put under the loop and somebody will come up with something bad or "safety" related. I guess it's a good thing we don't allow pictures at our workplace...

This thread is about a valid question from a fellow A.netter.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
nyskymasters
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:41 pm

RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting CaptainTim (Reply 8):
The FAR Part 29 states only during taxi, take off and landing, this guy seems like he's just taken off..

United States FAR Part 29 only applies to airworthiness standards for rotorcraft, ie. helicopters.

US FAR Part 91 would apply, specifically CFR 91.105b which states "Each required flight crewmember of a U.S. registered civil aircraft shall, during takeoff and landing, keep the shoulder harness fastened while at his or her assigned duty station. This does not apply if- (1) The seat at the crewmember's station is not equipped with a shoulder harness; or (2) The crewmember would be unable to perform required duties with the shoulder harness fastened.

It was once explained to me by the FAA that takeoff is generally considered to extend to flap retraction (the end off fourth segment climb) at which time you would be considered to be into "climb." ( Too much technicality if you ask me.)

Just thought I would pass along what the FAR's actally say for US operations. If anybody knows where to find this "obscure regulation" please pass it along. I would be interested to read it.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting BA84 (Thread starter):
Is this a safety violation, or is it allowed?

Since this is a picture of an European[not American] aircraft, flying over Spain what is the treatment given by the European authorities to this theme?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ChiGB1973
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Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 10):
We do not even have shoulder harness on the checklist anymore. And it used to be on the Before Takeoff. I've been in violation for many, many years... and probably will be for many more.

So, you don't wear the shoulder harness?

If not, shouldn't you be more concerned about passenger safety? If you do hit something and get knocked out from the first impact simply because you weren't wearing your shoulder harness, you endanger any number of people in the plane not being able to attempt to control the plane, in the event you could, to prevent hitting something else or steering away from water, other aircraft or any number of obstacles.

Again, maybe I took your comment out of context and you do wear your shoulder harness when you know you should.

As a paramedic, I see people who are dead or seriously injured just because they were not wearing their seat belt. It is subjective, because I don't know what would have happened. Through education and experience, I can make the assumption that someone getting thrown through a windshield or my most recent fatality, the driver through the passenger side window, would have fared better staying in the seat.

M
 
BA84
Topic Author
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:36 am

RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting A330 (Reply 15):
Why do these teen plane spotters always think bad things when seeing a flight-deck picture... sad and one of the reasons why a lot of my collegues don't allow you guys into our "office" anymore.

It seems my topic has annoyed our Belgian pilots. I'm not a teen, but 61, flying for many years as a passenger.
I was recently invited into the cockpit of an Air Canada A-320 during the cruise segment. I noticed both pilots were wearing their shoulder belts. The topic didn't come up, as we were talking about other stuff.

The reason I posted this thread, was that I noticed in the photo, that the FO was wearing his belts, but the captain was not. From the angle of the cockpit, it's obvious the aircraft is not at cruise. Hence my question. I certainly didn't mean to tell you guys your job. I merely asked if it was allowed. As you know, there are many parts of the world where pilots cut corners, and omit procedures, usually for economic reasons, but also because of machismo, or in cultures where the captain does it his way, or else.

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 18):
I actually thought that BA84's question was phrased in a very polite way. He simply had a question. Rather than some people here, who will post questions as a scandalized accusation (look at this blatant safety violation, how can you get away with this?!?) he asked it in a civil way and immediately thanked the poster who answered him. Not everybody knows everything about flying.

Thank you, Bohlman, and TACAA320, for your support.

BA84
 
A330
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 12:31 am

RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:36 am

BA84,

Normal procedure is that at 10.000ft., shoulder harnessess come off except when workload is too high or flight conditions require us to wear them.
However, in good weather, some crew undo the belts after cleanup of the aircraft (flaps & gear). This is not dangerous and has no safety implications.
I presume that in this case, the FO is a little late in undoing his belts rather than the Capt. was too early, as the captain in the picture is partly responsible for the SkyEurope SOP's.
I was a bit harsh to you earlier on, my apologies.
Shiek!
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:38 am

Quoting BA84 (Reply 23):

Thank you, Bohlman, and TACAA320, for your support.

You're more than welcome!
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
legacy135
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:06 pm

RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting A330 (Reply 15):
The Captain is actually one of SkyEurope's finest and also the Head of Training. Top guy.
Why do these teen plane spotters always think bad things when seeing a flight-deck picture... sad and one of the reasons why a lot of my collegues don't allow you guys into our "office" anymore.
Thomas, if you read this, hope all is fine with you!!



Quoting Airbelgium (Reply 16):
I totally agree with A330: It seems that every time a picture of a flightdeck appears on this forum it is put under the loop and somebody will come up with something bad or "safety" related. I guess it's a good thing we don't allow pictures at our workplace...

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Absolutely agree with you guys!

So sad to see ........... a kind and open minded crew allows an aviation enthusiast to the flight deck who posts then the pictures he shot, to share his joy with us. Then those "experts" having 0 hours experience or those who can bring a simple trainer only back without damage if weather is severe CAVOK and the runway about 10 X the required length, start to explain whats safe and whats unsafe.

Cheers
Legacy135  Wink
 
BA84
Topic Author
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:36 am

RE: Safety Violation?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting A330 (Reply 24):
I was a bit harsh to you earlier on, my apologies.

Apology accepted. No offence taken.

Regards,

BA84