twolz2rn
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:03 am

Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:33 am

So, if memory serves me correct, DL is supposed to start ATL-PVG March 25th...or is that the date that they are supposed to find out?

Why don't they even offer booking options to PVG? I am going to PVG this summer and DL currently do not offer flights if you book on-line with any skyteam member...whats the deal with that?


Thanks

[Edited 2007-03-25 00:41:16]
 
COEWRNJ
Posts: 1000
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:46 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:40 am

DL does not and will not be serving PVG with its own metal for at least another year. The lost out on it two years ago and weren't eligible this year. I would think that you could try them to Seoul and then KE to PVG but not sure how that works. As i said though you can't ride DL metal to PVG and even when they do enter China I believe they want PEK from ATL.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13200
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:44 am

2007 UAL awarded IAD-PEK
2006 AA awarded ORD-PVG
2005 CO awarded EWR-PEK

Im not sure what the requirments are for carriers to bid for the 2008 China authorities, or when the process gets started.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:49 am

In the 2007 round, the US carriers that applied for new services were limited to those that already served China.....that wont be the case in 2008, thus Delta is applying and US will apply for PHL-PVG (they are already talking about leasing A343s, a bit optimistic, I think). I assume that NW, CO and AA will resubmit their applications next year.

Arent there ongoing negotiations between the US and China to futher liberalize air service between the two countries? I though that there was talk that more frequencies would be available on an accelerated schedule......anyone have additional information?
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:05 am

I'd be surprised if China accelerates the schedule right now...

DL has already said they want ATL-PVG.

The formal route case is not open yet although DL and US have filed documents saying they are interested.
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:06 am

I don't see how DL won't get this over NW, US, AA, and CO... DL is the only one that doesn't serve China besides US, and DL is a MAJOR player in the international market. US getting the China route? A340's? I am not even going to argue with that. DL should get this.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 4):
The formal route case is not open yet although DL and US have filed documents saying they are interested.

Not just DL and US, but also HA, AA, CO, NW have filed the same papers.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 5):
I don't see how DL won't get this over NW, US, AA, and CO... DL is the only one that doesn't serve China besides US, and DL is a MAJOR player in the international market. US getting the China route? A340's? I am not even going to argue with that. DL should get this.

Delta is the front runner, but nobody thought that United Airlines should have won either. If American Airlines goes for Los Angeles-Beijing, for example, they will give Delta's application serious competition.m Continental is going for Newark-Shanghai for the third time, and DOT might suddenly give in. I think Delta is going to win it, but it isn't a shoe-in.

[Edited 2007-03-25 18:26:48]
a.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
I think Delta is going to win it, but it isn't a shoe-in.

It is theirs to screw up.
If this route authority between the U.S. and China is accelerated further say to every 6 months, what other cities do you see getting direct China service from a U.S. flag carrier?
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Delta is the front runner, but nobody thought that United Airlines should have won either. If American Airlines goes for Los Angeles-Beijing, for example, they will give Delta's application serious competition.m Continental is going for Newark-Shanghai for the third time, and DOT might suddenly give in. I think Delta is going to win it, but it isn't a shoe-in.

Very well said. DL is in the leed, but its not in the bag. In my opinion the things DL has going for it are:

1) Biggest US carrier with no service to China.
2) ATL is the worlds busiest airport.

In my opinion the things that arent so great:

1) ATL's horrible geographic position in relation to connections being made from Asia to the US and vice-versa. Everyone not from the deep south or Florida will have to back track.
2) ATL's almost nonexistant local market to China.

If LAX somehow gets thrown into the mix (which I dont think it will), I think it will complicate matters even more. LAX is by far the largest market from the US to China. I think it goes without saying that CO will try for EWR-PVG, and NYC is the second largest market to China.

Bottom line is this: If the DOT sees this years race as an issue among the airlines, then it will be DL. If they see it as an issue among the market served (which they did this last time around), then DL wont get it.
It is what it is...
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2143
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:39 pm

It looks like the award has alternated between PEK and PVG. If so, then PVG will win in 2008. Is that why DL and US want PVG instead of going for PEK first?

Looking at the past three years, maybe DL will get it as no carrier has received two awards in the past three years.

I can't image US getting it with PHL-PVG regardless of the aircraft choice. PHL, along with ATL must have a low O&D for China in comparison to EWR. Connections for ATL, EWR and PHL all involve many backhaul city pairs with PHL undoubtedly offering fewer connections than ATL or EWR.

I'm hoping CO finally gets EWR-PVG to serve by far the largest O&D market of any applicant.
sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:10 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 9):
If LAX somehow gets thrown into the mix (which I dont think it will), I think it will complicate matters even more. LAX is by far the largest market from the US to China. I think it goes without saying that CO will try for EWR-PVG, and NYC is the second largest market to China.

Keep in mind that LAX is served by all of China's big state owned carriers (China Southern, China Eastern and Air China--or China Airlines?), which is why in my observation the big U.S. flag carriers have stayed away from them as an application.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 10):
I'm hoping CO finally gets EWR-PVG to serve by far the largest O&D market of any applicant.

Ditto for EWR competing against its Port Authority of NYC sister airport; JFK. Service exists with the three I mentioned above.

Some of the cities that a few years down the line could get China authorities that no one mentions are SEA and BOS. SEA largely gets blocked out due to its proximity to a cross-border airport; YVR. Both SEA and BOS have large Chinese-American communities.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:51 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
Ditto for EWR competing against its Port Authority of NYC sister airport; JFK. Service exists with the three I mentioned above.

China Southern doesnt fly to NYC and China Eastern only flies 2x weekly (last I checked). However all three do offer daily service to LAX.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
Keep in mind that LAX is served by all of China's big state owned carriers (China Southern, China Eastern and Air China--or China Airlines?), which is why in my observation the big U.S. flag carriers have stayed away from them as an application.

And im sure thats exactly why U.S. flag carriers stay away from LAX. I still think it can be done if one of the airlines tries.
It is what it is...
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 10):
It looks like the award has alternated between PEK and PVG. If so, then PVG will win in 2008. Is that why DL and US want PVG instead of going for PEK first?

Not necessarily. Both are going for PVG because UA got IAD-PEK in the last round of awards. Because IAD competes for the same connecting traffic as PHL and ATL, and IAD just got service to PEK, DL and US stand a better chance if they try to open up a different market.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2565
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:32 pm

Why should the DOT give DL any benefit of the doubt?
As large DL is, they have eight aircraft that can properly serve US mainland to China. At least CO is going on 20 772s, NW will get 787s next year, AA still has plenty of 772s, and UA has plenty of 744 & 777 to juggle if it comes to that. While I doubt UA will get more awarded in the next two years, CO's application for such as EWR-PVG or NW's DTW-PVG or PEK are much stronger than anything DL can throw at the DOT.
 
papatango
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 10:32 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 8):

Has anyone heard any news from the recent china usa talks?
 
ord
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 14):
While I doubt UA will get more awarded in the next two years, CO's application for such as EWR-PVG or NW's DTW-PVG or PEK are much stronger than anything DL can throw at the DOT.

Northwest should be awarded nothing. They already have the rights to fly to China and choose to use these rights for NRT-China service, instead of mainland USA-China. They are the only U.S. carrier that "wastes" their China rights in this manner. If Northwest wants to serve DTW-China, all they need to do is move one of their NRT-China flights. That would greatly benefit the U.S. travelling public as many people would just have one connection (i.e. in Detroit) as opposed to two connections (i.e. Detroit and Tokyo) now.
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:58 pm

The DoT is a tough department to predict. Their logic seems to change with each ruling. Going by their latest logic an AA LAX proposal would be denied because LAX already has access to China. Also, I don’t know what the DoT has against NYC but CO would be wise to switch their EWR-PVG application to IAH-PVG.

[Edited 2007-03-26 16:16:29]
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
US will apply for PHL-PVG

Has US officially decided on PHL for the China bid? Last time I had heard anything about it, it was expected to be PHL, but they hadn't officially said which hub they would bid from.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 5):
US getting the China route? A340's? I am not even going to argue with that. DL should get this.

I agree.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
If American Airlines goes for Los Angeles-Beijing, for example, they will give Delta's application serious competition.

Very true. AA from LAX is really the one player who could throw a big old monkey wrench in DL's plans.
Good goes around!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 17):
Also, I don’t know what the DoT has against NYC but CO would be wise to switch their EWR-PVG application to IAH-PVG.

As much as I would love for CO to serve China from IAH, they wont any time soon (at least until the 787s come). The next service from IAH to Asia will probably be KE (at least my fingers are crossed). My dad lives in Houston and travels to Asia frequently. He always talks about how you guys need more options to Asia. I wholeheartedly agree with him, but I highly doubt CO will serve IAH-China over EWR-China.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 17):
Going by their latest logic an AA LAX proposal would be denied because LAX already has access to China.

Not true. LAX does not have service from a U.S. flag carrier which is what seems to be the most important on the DOT's mind. I think they would love for a US flag carrier to compete with the Chineese.

Quoting Ord (Reply 16):
Northwest should be awarded nothing.

Absolutely. NW has rights and chooses not to use them. NW will never be awarded more frequencies until the start using the ones they have from DTW or MSP instead of NRT.

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 18):
Very true. AA from LAX is really the one player who could throw a big old monkey wrench in DL's plans.

Absolutely right. I doubt anyone will apply from LAX, but it could be the one thing that gives DL a run for their money.
It is what it is...
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 19):
The next service from IAH to Asia will probably be KE (at least my fingers are crossed).

Actually it will be EK.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 19):
Not true. LAX does not have service from a U.S. flag carrier which is what seems to be the most important on the DOT's mind. I think they would love for a US flag carrier to compete with the Chineese.

I disagree. I don’t think that’s the major factor it once was for the DoT. NYC does not have US flag carrier service to PVG, yet that fact has not been too important in the minds of the DoT. CO and DL have both applied to China from NYC with little success.
CO best bet against a DL ATL proposal is to propose IAH-PVG service. Unless the DoT really doesn’t want CO to have any more China frequencies (which may be true), I really don’t see how IAH could lose out to ATL in the next round.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 20):
I really don’t see how IAH could lose out to ATL in the next round.

I don't think IAH could beat out ATL. Regardless of the fact that certain passengers would have to backtrack to use it, I think ATL would easily beat out IAH because of the sheer volume of passengers who could connect to an ATL-PVG flight.
Good goes around!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 20):
NYC does not have US flag carrier service to PVG, yet that fact has not been too important in the minds of the DoT. CO and DL have both applied to China from NYC with little success.

LAX doesnt service to China on a US carrier period (not even HKG on a US carrier). And LAX is the largest market from the US to China.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 20):
CO best bet against a DL ATL proposal is to propose IAH-PVG service. Unless the DoT really doesn’t want CO to have any more China frequencies (which may be true), I really don’t see how IAH could lose out to ATL in the next round.

IAH probabaly would lose out to ATL if it came to that. No one will argue that Houston is the larger city and has one of the largest international communities in the country (certainly larger than Atlanta), but ATL is a bigger airport with more opprotunities for connections. Honestly both airports are poorly located for service from Asia to the US as far as connections are concerned and Houston does have a larger market to China, but my money is on ATL and DL.
It is what it is...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 19):

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 18):
Very true. AA from LAX is really the one player who could throw a big old monkey wrench in DL's plans.

Absolutely right. I doubt anyone will apply from LAX, but it could be the one thing that gives DL a run for their money.

I think AA will. With the last round, before applying for Dallas-Beijing, the rumours were they were going to try for Los Angeles-Beijing. If they had, I think they would have had a great shot and winning it. I think they will go for LAX-PEK next time around, but they still might try for DFW-PEK again.
a.
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:49 am

Also, can DL's 777ER's make ATL-PVG, or would this have to require an oh-so-precious... 772LR? I realize that this flight is only 100 miles shorter than JFK-BOM, but what about winds and cargo?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13200
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Delta is the front runner, but nobody thought that United Airlines should have won either. If American Airlines goes for Los Angeles-Beijing, for example, they will give Delta's application serious competition.m Continental is going for Newark-Shanghai for the third time, and DOT might suddenly give in. I think Delta is going to win it, but it isn't a shoe-in.

During the 2007 competition a few A-net posters, Mark I think you might have been one of them, made the point the DOT might react unfavorably to CO's application because of their loud objection to Virgin America. Many felt the DOT took ) objection to CO's aggresive campaigning and thus would (did) react unfavorably.

I was a doubter, I thought the DOT would put aside any personal issues and vote on the merits. If they voted purely on the merits CO's application was the strongest in every way, however they voted for UAL's application.

In an interview with CO's CEO Larry Kellner yesterday in the Newark Star Ledger, Larry points to the loss of the China route competition as a disappointment and admits they probably shot themselves in the foot the DOT..

Quote:
As promising as the Mumbai route may be, though, it was really something of a consolation after Continental lost its bid to fly into Shanghai late last year. Because U.S. airline access into China remains restricted, the occasional opportunities to fly there are golden. In the case of Shanghai, United won.

Continental learned a huge lesson with the Shanghai loss: Even the big guys have to be diplomatic.

Last year, when the Department of Transportation proposed changing the rules on foreign ownership of airlines as part of a so-called Open Skies agreement with the European Union, Continental aggressively opposed the rule change. Its public protests were loud and vehement, and its lobbying efforts on Capital Hill were considered downright offensive.

"Especially in this town, it's the behind-the-scene stuff that people pay attention to," said one industry source in Washington, D.C., who requested anonymity. "It was pretty common knowledge -- Continental had burned its bridges" with the DOT.

The DOT would not comment directly about whether Continental's lobbying efforts entered into its decision-making on the Shanghai route. Continental, too, declined to comment on its lobbying efforts and possible fallout at the DOT. "We felt we had a compelling case for Newark-Shanghai," a company spokesman said. "We were disappointed it was not awarded to us."

.

http://www.nj.com/business/ledger/in...801160234580.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

I think CO has a 50/50 chance to win a China route award for 2008, I believe they will again apply for EWR-PVG. EWR-PVG in 2007 was hands down the most logical route when looking at the merits and business support. The X-factor in the 2007 decision was not the strength of the UAL application but the bad lobbying on behalf of CO, it was CO's to win or loose and they lost.

If the DOT wanted to teach CO a lesson they taught them, it's up to CO to rebuild those bridges. If it works they have a strong case to win EWR-PVG in 2008, otherwise it's between AA and DL.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 25):
I think CO has a 50/50 chance to win a China route award for 2008, I believe they will again apply for EWR-PVG. EWR-PVG in 2007 was hands down the most logical route when looking at the merits and business support. The X-factor in the 2007 decision was not the strength of the UAL application but the bad lobbying on behalf of CO, it was CO's to win or loose and they lost.

CO's application will have plenty of merit, but it will be a 3rd-place contender if DL applies for ATL-PVG and AA applies for LAX-PEK. In the case of DL, they are a new entrant to the market, and would open up access to a new part of the country (not to mention the busiest hub in the world). In the case of AA from LAX, it would have an advantage because LAX currently has no access to China via US-carriers, and because there have been no awarding of frequencies from the west coast in some time. That said, if AA went for DFW-China, CO's fortunes would improve somewhat, but DL would likely still have a more competitive application.

And EWR-PVG was definitely a strong contender, but the DOTs ruling made lots of sense. There are very limited frequencies to China, and UA was flying a bigger airplane, from a new market, with lots of connections on the other end, expanding access beyond the traditional PVG/PEK markets. All CO had going for it was a big market with connections. UA just had a bit more in their favor.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2565
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting Ord (Reply 16):
Northwest should be awarded nothing. They already have the rights to fly to China and choose to use these rights for NRT-China service, instead of mainland USA-China. They are the only U.S. carrier that "wastes" their China rights in this manner. If Northwest wants to serve DTW-China, all they need to do is move one of their NRT-China flights. That would greatly benefit the U.S. travelling public as many people would just have one connection (i.e. in Detroit) as opposed to two connections (i.e. Detroit and Tokyo) now.

Why is that? Because NW uses a 757 on the NRT-CAN & A332 on the NRT-PEK. NW is an incumbant carrier and in a free market it can chooses what to do with the Chinese frequencies. Furthermore they are not being wasted nor not used.
So the US west coast traveler is then forced to use UA if one want to fly on a US carrier to their final any of the Chinese destinations. In the end, NW may opt to funnel passengers thru ICN but NW & KE relations have not really gone ahead despite both being in SkyTeam.
Now NW can choose to fly DTW-PEK or PVG for the additional frequencies and they have and will have the aircraft to do it if the DOT decides to do so. And in the meantime what is DL doing getting what a pair of 772LRs in the next few years.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2143
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: Any News About DL ATL-PVG?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:35 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 26):
CO's application will have plenty of merit, but it will be a 3rd-place contender if DL applies for ATL-PVG and AA applies for LAX-PEK. In the case of DL, they are a new entrant to the market, and would open up access to a new part of the country (not to mention the busiest hub in the world). In the case of AA from LAX, it would have an advantage because LAX currently has no access to China via US-carriers, and because there have been no awarding of frequencies from the west coast in some time. That said, if AA went for DFW-China, CO's fortunes would improve somewhat, but DL would likely still have a more competitive application.

And EWR-PVG was definitely a strong contender, but the DOTs ruling made lots of sense. There are very limited frequencies to China, and UA was flying a bigger airplane, from a new market, with lots of connections on the other end, expanding access beyond the traditional PVG/PEK markets. All CO had going for it was a big market with connections. UA just had a bit more in their favor.

"All CO had going for it was a big market with connections." That gets trumped by a smaller market with fewr connections. That makes sense.

CO will reapply for EWR-PVG and that route should be the top contender unless politics gets involved. Changing it to IAH-PVG would mean that CO's pitch for the biggest O&D market in 2007 is being replaced by another market. What would they hype with IAH-PVG?

DL may have to run a 772LR, which will have less cargo capacity if it has aux fuel tanks. Great Circle mapper shows ATL-PVG running a more southern route than CO's EWR-PVG route meaning more headwinds westbound from ATL.

As far as CO not getting the route due to aircraft size, no one will be proposing a 747 (or a 773) this time around. ATL may be the busiest hub, but it has a small O&D and much traffic would be backhauling via ATL vs. EWR. .

[Edited 2007-03-27 02:38:15]
sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/