BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:10 am

United could add flights to London

By Chris Walsh, Rocky Mountain News
March 23, 2007


United Airlines will reconsider the possibility of adding flights between Denver and London in light of a new agreement that partly liberalizes trans-Atlantic travel.

The agreement, approved Thursday by the European Union, relaxes most restrictions on service between the U.S. and Europe. United expressed some interest two years ago in flights from Denver to London's Heathrow Airport but said its hands were tied by those restrictions.

Now, though, "the regulatory barriers to Denver-Heathrow service have been removed," said Michael Whitaker, United's senior vice president of alliances, international and regulatory affairs. "For competitive reasons we're very careful not to discuss new routes . . . but we're certainly going to look at new opportunities" in Denver and elsewhere.

The rest of the article can be read here:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm.../0,2777,DRMN_23912_5436453,00.html

I really do hope that United launches DEN-LHR as British Airways' daily filght is always full and has become very expensive.

UA launching DEN-LHR would help depress fares to a more reasonable level, not to mention add much needed capacity.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
B742
Posts: 3566
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:48 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting BA (Thread starter):
I really do hope that United launches DEN-LHR as British Airways' daily filght is always full and has become very expensive.

I agree!

DEN-LON has been strongly rumoured for some time now; although the Bermuda II ruling has prevented it from being a stronger possibility. Now that LHR may be open for the flight; UA may begin.

Rob!  wave 
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:17 am

DEN-LHR would be an excellent addition to UA's growing international network.
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 842
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
DEN-LON has been strongly rumored for some time now

it was actually announced as part of the US merger...but it was to LGW.

-m

 airplane 
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:27 am

Funny, in the past when this has been brought up, I seem to recall the vast majority of the reaction here being negative to this idea, due to the makeup of the DEN hub for UA. I'd like to see it, since it could collect a lot of flyers from smaller airports in the west. My favorite London flight in the past was CO's 34/35 from the old Stapleton to Gatwick. Even in the days when CO had a downright horrid reputation, they did a quality product with that flight, and it was nearly always full.
International Homo of Mystery
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting BA (Thread starter):


Now, though, "the regulatory barriers to Denver-Heathrow service have been removed," said Michael Whitaker, United's senior vice president of alliances, international and regulatory affairs. "For competitive reasons we're very careful not to discuss new routes . . . but we're certainly going to look at new opportunities" in Denver and elsewhere.

Imagine that!

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
Funny, in the past when this has been brought up, I seem to recall the vast majority of the reaction here being negative to this idea

I imagine most of the people who were taking pot shots at DEN in favor of their own pet airport (usually DFW, SEA or SFO) won't be posting much in this thread. OpenSkies and the 787 may end up being the best thing that ever happens to Denver.
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:44 am

Bermuda II is going to be gone soon - THANK GOD!! In my humble opinion, the restrictions on some airports are just ludicrous - and Denver is a primary example.

If ONE airline from either the U.K. or the U.S. wants to fly Denver-London, then they shall operate to Heathrow (assuming they have the rights to). But if TWO airlines want to fly it, they must both use Gatwick.

Now if a OneWorld airline can fill an airplane up from a Star Alliance city, then a Star Alliance carrier should be able to do the same thing. Denver is NOT the sleepy city at the foot of the Rockies anymore - it is a viable international and business destination. United will have NO problem filling up seats DEN-London, regardless of the airport.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
My favorite London flight in the past was CO's 34/35 from the old Stapleton to Gatwick. Even in the days when CO had a downright horrid reputation, they did a quality product with that flight, and it was nearly always full.

Interesting....I did not know that.

---------------

UA adding Denver-LHR to their schedule is almost a sure thing.......UA is a powerhouse at Denver, the BA service on the route does very well, and UA is well established at LHR. When UA cancelled its last JFK-LHR flight (in connection with the DL deal), it retained the slots and leased them to Air Canada.....my guess is that the slot leasing agreement has a provision that allows UA to cancel the agreement upon certain notice if UA requires the slots for its own use. I think that we can assume that Denver-Heathrow, using a 744 or 772ER, will commence March 2008, using the LHR slots that once accommodated the JFK flight.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Interesting....I did not know that.

One of the reasons I liked it, was not only from the convenience of customs/immigration at Stapleton and their quality service, but it was one of the very first true codeshare flights (vs. the old interline type). They codeshared on Transavia's 732 midday flight between LGW-AMS, which even had a true business class product with two rows of 2x2 seating, with full hot meal service in business and a bag breakfast, lunch or dinner in coach--all on a 35-40 minute flight.
International Homo of Mystery
 
User avatar
OA412
Crew
Posts: 3859
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:15 am

Even though the article says that UA is just "considering" adding the service, I would be absolutely shocked if UA did not announce DEN-LHR within the next few weeks.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):
Even though the article says that UA is just "considering" adding the service, I would be absolutely shocked if UA did not announce DEN-LHR within the next few weeks.

Would they really likely announce it within the next few weeks? I was thinking more like towards the end of the year, for service inauguration in Spring of next year.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
User avatar
OA412
Crew
Posts: 3859
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting BA (Reply 10):
Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):
Even though the article says that UA is just "considering" adding the service, I would be absolutely shocked if UA did not announce DEN-LHR within the next few weeks.

Would they really likely announce it within the next few weeks? I was thinking more like towards the end of the year, for service inauguration in Spring of next year.

Yeah you're probably right given that it likely would not be starting until Spring/Summer '08. Still, I definitely foresee an announcement this year for service starting sometime in March/April of next year.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
mymiles2go
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:00 pm

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:46 am

Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

Of course, United could always cut back on serving domestic routes with longhaul aircraft - but United fills those up fairly well and they are fairly important to the overall route network (not to mention this has been discussed for years - like 5-7 years and never really changed).
 
nonrev
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:46 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:56 am

DEN definitely being evaluated.

My understanding was that UA & BA had rights to fly it from LGW only. 9/11 happened and BA moved it to LHR for 'safety' reasons, where it has remained...

Longhaul aircraft being squeezed at the moment, but UA still streamlining services - e.g. MVD canx.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:03 am

Looks like BA's biggest profit centre (USofA) is going to be attacked from a lot of different angles (i.e.-DEN, JFK, EWR, etc.)...this will be intersting in terms of what it does with its RFP... scratchchin 
"Up the Irons!"
 
BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:06 am

Quoting NonRev (Reply 13):
9/11 happened and BA moved it to LHR for 'safety' reasons, where it has remained...

BA moved its DEN, PHX, and SAN (no longer served) flights from LGW to LHR on October 26, 2002. It had nothing to do with 9/11.

I'm not sure of the exact details, but the Bermida II stipulates that a British carrier can operate to any US city from LHR, provided that the US city does not currently have service to either LHR or LGW by a US carrier. This is how BA was able to get around the Bermuda II restrictions.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:34 am

It had volume requirements as well.

NS
 
MDW717
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:29 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 12):
Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

Too bad they can't run DEN-LHR on the E170  duck 
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:46 pm

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 12):
Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

Bear in mind that a lot of United's long haul starts and ends the day at DEN anyways. It won't be a dramatic drop in capacity, just DEN's O&D traffic not being forced to transit to ORD to fly to LHR anyways.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:59 pm

Quoting BA (Thread starter):
United could add flights to London

Finally. I hate that when I've been to London, I sweat looking at those 1970's monitors and seeing fewer UA flights back home than I'd like to see.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
I'd like to see it, since it could collect a lot of flyers from smaller airports in the west

Good point. I think DEN is an underrated UA hub.

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 12):
Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

I don't know their a/c routing system, but I'm sure they could reroute some of the larger widebodies to DEN to do this. Maybe they could take some of those 767's I remember seeing on the West Coast routes to Hawaii and put a couple/few in IAD for transatlantic flying. Then they could put a couple of 777's and/or 747's in DEN for this, although, I don't know how the 767 would perform for them on that. I just don't know about that, but maybe it could work.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:07 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
looking at those 1970's monitors

Assuming you were in T3 (or you really wouldn't see any UA flights) it's entirely made up of large flat-screen displays for the flight info. 1970s monitors??  confused 
 
mymiles2go
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:00 pm

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:27 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 18):
Bear in mind that a lot of United's long haul starts and ends the day at DEN anyways. It won't be a dramatic drop in capacity, just DEN's O&D traffic not being forced to transit to ORD to fly to LHR anyways.

If you go DEN-LHR instead of DEN-ORD-LHR, then you have to cut the ORD-LHR flight. Highly unlikely.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
I don't know their a/c routing system, but I'm sure they could reroute some of the larger widebodies to DEN to do this. Maybe they could take some of those 767's I remember seeing on the West Coast routes to Hawaii and put a couple/few in IAD for transatlantic flying. Then they could put a couple of 777's and/or 747's in DEN for this, although, I don't know how the 767 would perform for them on that. I just don't know about that, but maybe it could work.

-R

Those are the Hawaii 767's and are two class, a subfleet with no international biz or interntional first. Same goes for the Hawaii 777's - also two class. Not really an option.
 
laca773
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:43 pm

How many 744s & 772s does UA have in storage at the moment? Is it possible for them to pull a couple out of one type or a mix to make this new DIA-LHR possible? This would be great for UA also considering they are getting ready to upgrade their premium cabins.

LACA773
 
AADC10
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:42 pm

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 12):
Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

Of course, United could always cut back on serving domestic routes with longhaul aircraft - but United fills those up fairly well and they are fairly important to the overall route network

The domestic 2 class widebodies are used primarily to Hawaii and between hubs. The 3 class domestic widebody flights are positioning flights. They would have to yank a plane from another route (SFO?) or possibly convert some 2 class aircraft as part of their F/C update.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 22):
How many 744s & 772s does UA have in storage at the moment?

None. All of the lease returned UA 772s are operating for other airlines. All of the 744s with UA paint in the desert were also returned to the leasing companies. There are only a few of them and they appear to be in bad shape.
 
tonyflyboi
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:51 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:41 pm

Hi guys with the new agreement will British Airways move routes from Gatwick to Heathrow
ie :- DFW IAH ATL BDA ?
 
kiwiandrew

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Tonyflyboi (Reply 24):
Hi guys with the new agreement will British Airways move routes from Gatwick to Heathrow
ie :- DFW IAH ATL BDA ?

BDA is not in the US or the EU so it is completely unaffected by this agreement . Don't let the fact that the old US-UK treaty was called Bermuda II confuse you
 
kiwiandrew

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 23):
They would have to yank a plane from another route (SFO?) or possibly convert some 2 class aircraft as part of their F/C update.

would UA necessarily need a 3 class a/c . How much first class demand would there be hubbing through DEN to LHR ?
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2164
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:56 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
I don't know their a/c routing system, but I'm sure they could reroute some of the larger widebodies to DEN to do this.

They could tweek the system a little more, at best you will see a 777 on the route, somebody mentioned a 747 but theres no way i can see UA putting that on the route. But I would not be surprised to see a 767 take up the slack when the route is launched, especially as by then the 767's will have started being comgigured withthe new F & J class seats.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 26):
would UA necessarily need a 3 class a/c . How much first class demand would there be hubbing through DEN to LHR ?

Three points there, first, UA on international widebodies will not be going to a two class anytime in the future. Second, theres a lot of money IMHO to be made up the front of the plane on this route if they offer the right product, thirdly, if BA can, I am sure UA can from there second biggest hub!

Now come on UA just announce it and put us out of our misery!
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23468
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
my guess is that the slot leasing agreement has a provision that allows UA to cancel the agreement upon certain notice if UA requires the slots for its own use. I think that we can assume that Denver-Heathrow, using a 744 or 772ER, will commence March 2008, using the LHR slots that once accommodated the JFK flight.

UA also has 2-3 LHR slots on lease to VS which could be coming back within the next few years.
 
COFreqFlyer
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:44 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
My favorite London flight in the past was CO's 34/35 from the old Stapleton to Gatwick. Even in the days when CO had a downright horrid reputation, they did a quality product with that flight, and it was nearly always full.

Interesting....I did not know that.

Yah, 34/35 go DEN-IAH-LGW now, but CO still has rights DEN-LON (per 777gk in another thread), so they *could* (not saying they will) do a direct nonstop immediately if they wanted to offer some competition.
The Proud Bird with the Golden Tail
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:21 pm

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 21):
If you go DEN-LHR instead of DEN-ORD-LHR, then you have to cut the ORD-LHR flight. Highly unlikely.

How many daily ORD-LHR flights are there?

Quoting COFreqFlyer (Reply 29):
Yah, 34/35 go DEN-IAH-LGW now, but CO still has rights DEN-LON (per 777gk in another thread), so they *could* (not saying they will) do a direct nonstop immediately if they wanted to offer some competition.

I don't know of any such arrangement that would allow CO to have the "rights" to stop any carrier from flying a specific route. Certainly CO would not have LHR access rights in a pre-OpenSky arrangement, and OpenSky would negate any sort of existing right to lock other carriers out.

In all of the media coverage on this issue for the last seven years, I have never heard this statement before. Not only does OpenSkies negate it, Bermuda II would not have allowed carriers to lock out other carriers on a specific route.

The only rights I can think of here is permission from the DoT to run a particular route, and I highly doubt that is still in place 12 years after CO abandoned their DEN hub.

[Edited 2007-03-25 16:25:16]
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:33 pm

I wonder is there enough traffic to justify UA flying between Denver and London. It would certainly be popular during the winter months for Europeans wanting to visit the ski resorts in Colorado.
 
COFreqFlyer
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:44 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 30):
I don't know of any such arrangement that would allow CO to have the "rights" to stop any carrier from flying a specific route. Certainly CO would not have LHR access rights in a pre-OpenSky arrangement, and OpenSky would negate any sort of existing right to lock other carriers out.

In all of the media coverage on this issue for the last seven years, I have never heard this statement before. Not only does OpenSkies negate it, Bermuda II would not have allowed carriers to lock out other carriers on a specific route.

Nonono, if I implied that they could "lock out" other carriers, that was not my intention. Please accept my apologies if I did somehow managed to infer such.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 30):
The only rights I can think of here is permission from the DoT to run a particular route, and I highly doubt that is still in place 12 years after CO abandoned their DEN hub.

Exactly, my statement (based on a CO Captain's statement) is with respect to the permission from USDoT to run the route. I think that since CO do still operate DEN-LGW with the one stop in IAH (technicality), that the permission to run the route has not expired, so yes it would be feasibly possible to convert that back to a nonstop. WRT abandoning the DEN hub, as I recall, much of that had to do with the new landing fee structure that was applied concurrent with the move to DIA.

Recall also that CO are planning to start using their big MX hangar on the NW side of the field again, so could it be possible they are planning to start ramping up service in DEN again? Food for thought.
The Proud Bird with the Golden Tail
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 30):
How many daily ORD-LHR flights are there?

more than enough... Wink

Just taking the piss.... Smile

here is the list..

AA 4x daily with 5x daily during the summer-all B777s
BA 3x daily 2x777 and 1x767 during winter (upguages to a 747 during the summer)
UA 3x daily 777's
AI x 3x weekly B744 services...
---
VS commencing 1daily A343 LHR-ORD services in a few weeks...
BD wanting to start LHR-ORD

Hope that helps.. Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
OOer
Posts: 996
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
Then they could put a couple of 777's and/or 747's in DEN for this

I doubt that UA would put a 744 on a DEN-LHR flight to start with. A 772 would probably do the job just fine, UA would probably run it 4-5 times a week to start with.

Would a 763 have the legs to do a DEN-LHR flight? I know LHR-DEN would be ok, but can a 763 make it out of DEN in the summer without being severely restricted?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 3):
it was actually announced as part of the US merger...but it was to LGW.

That would have made more sense then, as US was already established at Gatwick and the likely switch of PHL to Heathrow would cause a slot crunch anyway. The reason they haven't thrown traffic at Gatwick from DEN now is that it is their only hub that isn't a Heathrow gateway and they haven't flown a flight there in nearly 2 decades.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 26):
would UA necessarily need a 3 class a/c .

Based on their current fleet makeup, it would be their only real choice.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 26):
How much first class demand would there be hubbing through DEN to LHR ?

Plenty. Denver is a strong business market as well as being a high end tourist market that can actually sell a First cabin to leisure travellers.

Quoting OOer (Reply 34):
UA would probably run it 4-5 times a week to start with.

It would almost certainly be daily. United doesn't make a habit out of running major international routes less than daily.

Quoting OOer (Reply 34):
Would a 763 have the legs to do a DEN-LHR flight?

The 16,000 foot runway would help greatly.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
I wonder is there enough traffic to justify UA flying between Denver and London.

I would say there is sufficient demand for both UA and BA on this route year-round. BA's flight is almost entirely O&D (some do make interline connections on UA though, I've seen it) and is consistently very full year-round.

UA's flight would also attract quite a bit of O&D and reduce the pressure on BA (a pressure that BA is enjoying of course), but keep in mind what would really make it successful is the available connections UA offers from DEN, so there will be plenty of transiting passengers on this flight.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:45 am

Was BA allowed to increase the flight to more than Daily or did Bermuda II prevent that?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 37):
Was BA allowed to increase the flight to more than Daily or did Bermuda II prevent that?

They could go more than once daily now.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
They could go more than once daily now.

Sorry let me clarify, I meant back when Bermuda II was in effect.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 39):
Sorry let me clarify, I meant back when Bermuda II was in effect.

Bermuda II is still in effect . Open skies does not come in until March '08
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 39):
Sorry let me clarify, I meant back when Bermuda II was in effect.

I was talking about that as well.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:27 am

^^^

Oh ok, that's my bad. I'm off today... If this route really provides this much oppurtunity, wouldn't BA have increased frequencies?
 
BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 42):
Oh ok, that's my bad. I'm off today... If this route really provides this much oppurtunity, wouldn't BA have increased frequencies?

Not necessarily. Increasing frequency would dilute yields and at this point, BA probably feels it is more beneficial to maintain current capacity and high yields.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
easyas321
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:44 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:54 am

think ThomsonFly have been operating weekly charter UK/DEN in winter for skiers (from 1 of LONDONS airports we think). UA might pick up some of this traffic, as it's been incredibly cheap for non-US residents to ski in Colorado lately, but obviously this is low yield stuff, but still helps fill aircraft.
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting COFreqFlyer (Reply 32):
Recall also that CO are planning to start using their big MX hangar on the NW side of the field again, so could it be possible they are planning to start ramping up service in DEN again? Food for thought.

CO has wanted back into the DEN market, but the thinking was that they really had no chance to do that once F9 got strong legs there. With UA, F9 and large WN operations all at DEN, unless CO buys F9, I just don't see it happening. (I don't think there is any denverite who wouldn't give up a pinky toe to replace UA with CO at DEN).

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 42):

Oh ok, that's my bad. I'm off today... If this route really provides this much oppurtunity, wouldn't BA have increased frequencies?

Because a 772 is a lot of capacity to put into a single market with no hub feed and more then that probably isn't sustainable unless you are ORD, LAX or NY. On the other hand, UA and F9 have hubs at DEN which would allow them to add enough traffic to the already strong O&D market to sustain another flight. If it were a one world hub instead of a star alliance hub, I don't doubt that BA would have had a second plane on the route by now.

For example, DEN is not going to be served by 2x daily to Germany (FRA and MUN), but LH was also talking about using the 380 (1x daily) and may still do so if the FRA demand remains high after the MUN route starts.
 
BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 44):
think ThomsonFly have been operating weekly charter UK/DEN in winter for skiers (from 1 of LONDONS airports we think).

It's from LGW and I think it's twice weekly.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 45):
(I don't think there is any denverite who wouldn't give up a pinky toe to replace UA with CO at DEN).

This is a Denverite who wouldn't give up a pinky toenail to replace UA with CO in DEN.

UA has a lot of loyalty in Denver. I can't tell you how many of my friends are United Mileage Plus members and like United a lot.

This isn't to say F9 isn't popular by any means either. They have a very large loyalty base as well. My sister is an EarlyReturns member.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 45):
For example, DEN is not going to be served by 2x daily to Germany (FRA and MUN), but LH was also talking about using the 380 (1x daily) and may still do so if the FRA demand remains high after the MUN route starts.

That would be a bad example as LH is part of Star Alliance and DEN is definately a Star Alliance hub. That means that the flights can pick up traffic from pretty much anywhere on the West Coast. So it really has little to do with supporting the argument that there is a larger underserved O&D market between DEN and Europe, specifically LHR here.
 
jetjeanes
Posts: 899
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:42 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:01 pm

Well if the Bermuda II is lifted Ua could probably go ahead with planes for Oma and Dsm Markets
i can see for 80 miles
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: United Considering Launching DEN-LHR

Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 47):

That would be a bad example as LH is part of Star Alliance and DEN is definately a Star Alliance hub. That means that the flights can pick up traffic from pretty much anywhere on the West Coast. So it really has little to do with supporting the argument that there is a larger underserved O&D market between DEN and Europe, specifically LHR here.

You seem very confused. Your point was:

Quote:
Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 42):

Oh ok, that's my bad. I'm off today... If this route really provides this much oppurtunity, wouldn't BA have increased frequencies?

My Point:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 45):
Because a 772 is a lot of capacity to put into a single market with no hub feed and more then that probably isn't sustainable unless you are ORD, LAX or NY. On the other hand, UA and F9 have hubs at DEN which would allow them to add enough traffic to the already strong O&D market to sustain another flight. If it were a one world hub instead of a star alliance hub, I don't doubt that BA would have had a second plane on the route by now.

For example, DEN is not going to be served by 2x daily to Germany (FRA and MUN), but LH was also talking about using the 380 (1x daily) and may still do so if the FRA demand remains high after the MUN route starts.

Which somehow you get to:

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 47):

That would be a bad example as LH is part of Star Alliance and DEN is definately a Star Alliance hub. That means that the flights can pick up traffic from pretty much anywhere on the West Coast. So it really has little to do with supporting the argument that there is a larger underserved O&D market between DEN and Europe, specifically LHR here.

But my point is that with a feed (Which BA doesn't have) UA can easily fill a 772ER on this route in this route (and frankly, if BA wasn't there could probably easily fill 2 a day), while BA probably could not fill another 772ER on the same route because they have no O&D fill.

We know that prices going down stimulates additional demand. Southwest has consistently been the most profitable carrier in the world because of that principle.

Put it another way. DEN is 55% O&D and 45% transit. BA is filling a 772ER just purely on hugely overpriced O&D market. That leaves half the total number of passengers who are routing through DEN to fill another bird and plenty of room for UA to try and steal O&D market from BA.

Welcome to fragmentation in action.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos