luketenley
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:51 am

Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:18 pm

I know most people don't care, but I heard from a flight attendant at work today that US might be adding flights back to PIT. He said that US recently wanted to add more flights to PHL but the FAA said there was no way that this could happen because of all the traffic and delays. The next best thing would be to add the flights to PIT. He said that its estimated to be about 40 or so flights that could be added. Now this is all just a rumor he heard in his crew room. Let's hope this all comes true. Has anyone else heard anything about this?
Pittsburgh International Airport lover
 
CALMSP
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:29 pm

if US wants to add flights to PHL they will. Why on earth a FA would say the FAA wont let them add flights is ridiculous!!!
 
silentbob
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:31 pm

That doesn't make sense unless they're regional flights, otherwise you have to get the passengers to/from PIT as well. That would likely require additional flights or capacity from PHL and CLT to PIT.
 
luketenley
Posts: 415
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 1):
if US wants to add flights to PHL they will. Why on earth a FA would say the FAA wont let them add flights is ridiculous!!!

He heard this in his crew room. They get news from the company so I'm sure it's floating around. He just didn't make it up. He's been there for 30 years.
Pittsburgh International Airport lover
 
as739x
Posts: 4995
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 3):

The FAA has no say on US adding flight between PIT-PHL

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:15 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 4):
The FAA has no say on US adding flight between PIT-PHL

I think he meant "adding flights between PHL and any city" versus "adding flights between PHL and PIT". Either way, seems a little odd.

-Dave
-Dave
 
SANFan
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:43 pm

I'm remembering something about some government entity having a say in how much or fast WN could expand at DEN -- was it some environmental deal? That was the first time I had heard of that and I wonder if this could somehow be related? (It doesn't make much sense here and I didn't know if it was correct information in the DEN case either.)

Otherwise, the F/A report doesn't make any sense to me at all. No offense to the individuals involved in this case, but I think we all know the usual rumor-reliability of flight crews...  Sad

I know how PITtsburghers want this to happen (hello Steeler'?) and I hope it will but I don't think it will be for this reason (as reported anyway.)

bb
 
Ward86IND
Posts: 226
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:19 pm

I am sure Steeler83, CentPIT, etc. will enter this thread later but I think I can make a collective plea...

PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN

I don't know what exact authority the FAA has on this, but it makes sense to add more flights to Pittsburgh, truly...

Hopefully, the NY area (PHL included) at some point is going to be so saturated with traffic that capacity needs to be added in other places *cough* PIT *cough* I mean jeez if at anywhere the ground work has been laid out...

We all know US moved their hub to Philly for economic reasons, but at some point it is going to be uneconomical to add more flights to PHL. Boy, if only there were some severely-underused location reasonably close by with superb facilities, itching for more capacity...perhaps some previous hub abandoned, left to die?

Or is this just setting up another cruel, cruel April Fools joke?
Live your dream.
 
luketenley
Posts: 415
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:50 pm

I'm sure the FAA can say something to stop PHL from getting more flights. They have too much traffic as it is. And maybe he meant that the airport authority itself is refusing to let US add flights? This is why I was asking other people on here if they have heard anything on the matter.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 5):
I think he meant "adding flights between PHL and any city" versus "adding flights between PHL and PIT".

This was meant for PHL adding more flights to other cities, not more frequencies between PHL and PIT.

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 7):
I don't know what exact authority the FAA has on this, but it makes sense to add more flights to Pittsburgh, truly...

Hopefully, the NY area (PHL included) at some point is going to be so saturated with traffic that capacity needs to be added in other places *cough* PIT *cough* I mean jeez if at anywhere the ground work has been laid out...

We all know US moved their hub to Philly for economic reasons, but at some point it is going to be uneconomical to add more flights to PHL. Boy, if only there were some severely-underused location reasonably close by with superb facilities, itching for more capacity...perhaps some previous hub abandoned, left to die?

Or is this just setting up another cruel, cruel April Fools joke?

Let's hope this isn't some joke, would not be funny. Could be a bunch of PIT employees just wishing and hoping like this rest of us. It's going to come down to the point where PHL and other airports over there aren't going to be able to expand and add more flights because of way too many traffic delays and problems. Only logical fix for this is to move traffic to other nearby airports. And there's not better airport for US to add to then PIT. I'm not going to spend time listing the reasons why since we've done this numerous times over.

Also, he mentioned that one of the flights POSSIBLY coming to PIT was a Germany flight. Oh boy would it be nice for US to add international flights back here.
Pittsburgh International Airport lover
 
panam330
Posts: 1955
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 7):
We all know US moved their hub to Philly for economic reasons

US didn't move their hub to PHL- it was a hub at the same time PIT was. They only downsized the PIT hub, in favor of PHL and CLT.
 
doug_or
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:02 am

the only thing less reliable then a rumor from pilot is a rumor from an F/A.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:03 am

Last week they added a few PIT/MHT and PIT/PWM for this summer--about 3-4 roundtrips on RJs in each market.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 10):
the only thing less reliable then a rumor from pilot is a rumor from an F/A.

I'm sure etops1 can shed some light into this subject.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
toltommy
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:08 am

"Overheard in the crewroom" means that someone is usually hoping for flights to a city that they'd like to see served from PIT. Doug Parker has said in town hall meetings that they are happy with how PIT is performing. PIT FA's are not happy because the base was downsized dramatically, and they either have to commute to another base, relocate, or go back on reserve. I've heard from PIT FA's that FA's with 16 years seniority were back on reserve in PIT.

As others have said, the FAA has nothing to do with allowing service to be added to PHL. However, when management and the FAA met (they do on a regular basis), the topic of adding flights at PHL was probably brought up. The FAA response was probably "ARE YOU NUTS? THE AIRPORT CAN'T HANDLE IT!"

Since PHL really is maxed out, there may be some additional flying added to PIT. But the flights added, if any, need to make sense for PIT O&D. US isn't planning to build a future at PIT on connecting traffic. It didn't work before.
 
primetimeDC9
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:18 am

actually it did work before, at one point it was the king of all us hubs and expansion took place as recently as the late 90's. The downfall of the airline and the fact that PIT was expensive, is what caused them to move out. On a side note isn't it possible for all available takeoff and landing slots to be used at an airport, aren't there only so many slots per time period that an airport can dish out? Not sure, but this would make sense.
 
atlaaron
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:30 am

Maybe adding flights will have something to do with them building the operations center in PIT. Just a guess, but who knows. I use PIT all the time now and I don't really care if they add more flights or not, I still won't fly them.
 
doug_or
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 13):
"Overheard in the crewroom" means that someone is usually hoping for flights to a city that they'd like to see served from PIT.

exactly. Its kind of like Peter Pan- If you just think happy thoughts maybe you can fly away to maaaaaagical world.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
PITSpeedbird
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:49 am

Why wouldnt US just add capacity to CLT or PHX if PHL was maxxed out?

It certainly would be nice to have the gates at PIT more full!!

Fingers crossed

PITSpeedbird
you leave. Arrive before
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
I know how PITtsburghers want this to happen (hello Steeler'?)

yeeeeesss??

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 7):
I am sure Steeler83, CentPIT, etc. will enter this thread later but I think I can make a collective plea...

Already have!!! Big grin  hyper   bouncy 

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 7):
PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN

I don't know what exact authority the FAA has on this, but it makes sense to add more flights to Pittsburgh, truly...

Yeah, I would like it to happen myself...

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 7):
We all know US moved their hub to Philly for economic reasons, but at some point it is going to be uneconomical to add more flights to PHL. Boy, if only there were some severely-underused location reasonably close by with superb facilities, itching for more capacity...perhaps some previous hub abandoned, left to die?

PHL and PIT were both hubs for US. US was the most expensive airline flying back circa 2000, and they had to offer high fares to offset the high costs... The problem, the folks at PIT, US' largest hub, could not afford 600 bucks to go one way to PHL or ORD, LGA, DCA, BOS, and various other markets, so O&D was extremely low.

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 8):
Also, he mentioned that one of the flights POSSIBLY coming to PIT was a Germany flight. Oh boy would it be nice for US to add international flights back here.

Of all the flights added, a Germany flight, or even a London flight, anything transatlantic, is what Pittsburgh needs. (It also needs more state attention than Philadelphia for financial reasons. There are 27 financially distressed municipalities in Southwest PA, including Pittsburgh, but that is a whole other non-aviation-related topic... Source: the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review)

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 13):
Since PHL really is maxed out, there may be some additional flying added to PIT. But the flights added, if any, need to make sense for PIT O&D. US isn't planning to build a future at PIT on connecting traffic. It didn't work before.

True, it didn't work before. US can't make money off of connecting traffic really, and PIT"s O&D was pitiful. Now, roughly 7.5 million people are originating or ending their travels out of PIT, and I believe this number will grow. In a way, US dehubbing PIT was a bit of a blessing in disguise. The region, as I hinted above, is already economically distressed, but the dehubbing has opened the flood gates for LCCs like WN and B6 to come in and lower fares to key O&D markets from PIT. I think Parker still sees PIT as a vital market for US, and especially now that fares have come down considerably, perhaps more connectivity at PIT is possible.

I am sure that most of the flights to be added, if that is even the case, will be regional flights. PKB, MGW, and another city or two have already been re-added by Colgan Air, and with Saabs instead of Beeches. I hope that the restarted service with a better regional carrier and with bigger aircraft will do better for US Express. Fares are low. People connecting in PIT likely travel to ORD, PHX, DEN, LAX, SFO, LGA, BOS, PHL, or a Florida city. Maybe this will mean more people on those flights. I am sure there are still some empty seats flying around. Not sure about PHL flights from PIT though; those are full. I was on an overbooked A319 in the middle of the day on Wednesday 2 weeks ago...

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 15):
Maybe adding flights will have something to do with them building the operations center in PIT. Just a guess, but who knows. I use PIT all the time now and I don't really care if they add more flights or not, I still won't fly them.

So you're boycotting US... All the same... but I am not sure if the flight ops center had much to do with the possibility of adding flights. Most of US' flights are on the East Coast, and US already had the flight ops center at PIT already, from when the airline was first started here back in the 1930s (I almost said 1390s... yeah right, just for a laugh really. Hey, this thread has excited me for the love of God, what more do y'all want?!! Big grin) Mr Kirby even said that if the USDL merger would have gone through, they highly considered relocating the ATL ops to PIT... Uhhh... that one kinda surprised me, but even still, to consider that, it says a lot about US and PIT.

About this being nothing more than an early April Fool's joke, I hope this is not the case either! I have a feeling that Parker might be wanting to beef up service, likely to existing strongholds from PIT given WN's position in PIT. WN has grown quite rapidly there (Granted, they only serve 7 destinations with 23 departures, but they are now the number 2 carrier, albeit a distand 2 behind US...) I think Parker is a bit intimidated by WN. Let's see... There is this talk of WN expanding DEN... IAD... even entering SFO, which is a strong transcon market for PIT and PHL. Parker "stirs" the PIT markets by lowering fares to pretty much every destination out of PIT. Some regional service is returning, and SEA and SAN service are returning, along with additional service to SFO and LAX. I wonder what some others' thoughts are on this...

MAYBE... some mainline might come back, again it's a maybe, but with PIT, the glass is half-full  optimist 

[see also my signature Wink]

"Your time is gonna come"
-Robert Plant, Led Zeppelin, 1969
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
BDL2DCA
Posts: 309
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:10 am

Gate leases at PHL would be the only reason why I could see them not adding flights there if necessary.

And as others have said, increasing capacity at CLT would alleviate PHL just as easily - and benefit from CLT's O&D numbers. Anyone have a good sense as to how many cities are served by just one US-East hub?
146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
 
steeler83
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting BDL2DCA (Reply 19):
And as others have said, increasing capacity at CLT would alleviate PHL just as easily - and benefit from CLT's O&D numbers.

I can't remember if the numbers are from 2005 or 2006, but CLT had about 1 million fewer O&D pax than PIT. PIT has about 7.3 or 7.4 million O&D, and growing, while CLT has a little over 6 million. Referring to multiple previous posts.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
PITSpeedbird
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:25 pm

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 7):
I am sure Steeler83, CentPIT, etc. will enter this thread later but I think I can make a collective plea...

Hey -- Add PITSpeedbird to that list!
I'm definitely a Yinzer too !! (Double yoi!)

- PITSpeedbird
you leave. Arrive before
 
jlbmedia
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:29 am

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:05 am

I can not see US airways being told they can not add flights to PHL when the whole point of the negotiations between US and Philadelphia last year over gates was so US could add International destinations, and increase gates for WN so they can expand flights this fall. John.
JLB54061
 
pgh234
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:19 am

This Yinzer also agrees...when your connecting traffic is causing negative returns at one hub...why not move it to a facility that can actually handle it? You would still be able to efficiently capture all of the O&D in PHL while increasing your O&D in PIT. If US gives everyone less delays and more resonable fares than before...traffic increases, operations become efficent, and everybody wins!

I would consider traveling US again if I didn't have to connect in PHL or NYC (and I think that the rest of the east coast agrees).

-pgh234
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting Pgh234 (Reply 23):
This Yinzer also agrees...when your connecting traffic is causing negative returns at one hub...why not move it to a facility that can actually handle it?

Especially one that was designed to handle hub traffic...

Quoting PGH234 (Reply 23):
You would still be able to efficiently capture all of the O&D in PHL while increasing your O&D in PIT. If US gives everyone less delays and more resonable fares than before...traffic increases, operations become efficent, and everybody wins!

Absolutely... PIT won't necessarily become a hub again for US, but at least US' presence there can increase, removing some of the stress from PHL. PHL will remain a major US hub and a major internatioal Gateway for US; PIT will be a major "reliever airport" for US. Even if US has 200 daily flights out of PIT, there is still room for a lot more traffic.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
tooluther
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:21 am

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:00 am

Now that the ACAA has paid down some debt, is PIT any cheaper? If it isn't could they refinance at this point so it does become cheaper?

And I'm in Pittsburgh too, but I refuse to be called a yinzer!
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting Tooluther (Reply 25):
Now that the ACAA has paid down some debt, is PIT any cheaper? If it isn't could they refinance at this point so it does become cheaper?

mmm... I suppose Luketenley could provide information on that. According to him, the landing fees have come down a bit in the last couple of years, as did the gate costs I believe...

Quoting Tooluther (Reply 25):
And I'm in Pittsburgh too, but I refuse to be called a yinzer!

Whatever man... All the same... Probably because you're from South Carolina???
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
PITSpeedbird
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:25 pm

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 24):
Especially one that was designed to handle hub traffic...

Right on Steeler83!!
The X structure at PIT is awesome and makes connections very easy.
Plus prices at the SkyMall reflect those of local malls.

I think the whole region stands to benefit and ACAA should lobby hard for more US traffic.
Onorato should definitely make some concessions here to lure the airline.

Things are looking up for Pittsburgh. The Pens are heading to the playoffs,
Westinghouse decided to stay in the region instead of moving down South,
and the Flight Ops center is coming here.

Here is to more air traffic and less empty gates at one of aviation's most valuable untapped
resources!!

PITSpeedbird
you leave. Arrive before
 
tooluther
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:21 am

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting BDL2DCA (Reply 19):
And as others have said, increasing capacity at CLT would alleviate PHL just as easily

Not from everywhere. CLT works well for a North East/Midwest-Southeast hub. But PIT and PHL work better for NE-Midwest and visversa.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 26):
Probably because you're from South Carolina???

Probably not since I grew up in the South Hills not South Carolina. I was only down south for six years. Contrary to fantastic perpetuated stereotypes yizer and pittsburgher are not synonymous.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 27):
I think the whole region stands to benefit and ACAA should lobby hard for more US traffic.
Onorato should definitely make some concessions here to lure the airline.

Definitely! Added traffic means more jobs, which means a stimulated local economy, especially if the additional traffic involves non-stop service to Europe.

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 27):
Things are looking up for Pittsburgh. The Pens are heading to the playoffs,
Westinghouse decided to stay in the region instead of moving down South,
and the Flight Ops center is coming here.

Especially now that Westinghouse is owned by Toshiba? Speaking of which, that new plant they're going to build up in Cranberry... that could really change the landscape up there! I CAN"T WAIT TO SEE IT!!! I CAN"T WAIT TO SEE HOW DIFFERENT THAT AREA IS GOING TO LOOK!

What about South Korea and China? They could have a considerable impact on where Pittsburgh goes. China wants Westinghouse to build nuclear reactors so they can generate clean electricity. South Korea is using Pittsburgh as a model to help drive their own economy. They are a tech based economy, and Pittsburgh has very big tech firms already based here, and not to mention a world renown tech school, Carnegy Mellon.

I could go on and on about the positives in Pittsburgh, but I don't want to be here forever writing it!  Smile

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 27):
Here is to more air traffic and less empty gates at one of aviation's most valuable untapped
resources!!

AMEN BUD!

Quoting Tooluther (Reply 28):
Probably not since I grew up in the South Hills not South Carolina. I was only down south for six years. Contrary to fantastic perpetuated stereotypes yizer and pittsburgher are not synonymous.

Roger that... so a "yinzer" is different from a "pittsburgher?" Do tell  Smile
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
luketenley
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:51 am

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:15 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 26):
mmm... I suppose Luketenley could provide information on that. According to him, the landing fees have come down a bit in the last couple of years, as did the gate costs I believe...

One of the Operations Managers told me that the gate and landing fees are now competitive with other major airports.

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 27):
Right on Steeler83!!
The X structure at PIT is awesome and makes connections very easy.
Plus prices at the SkyMall reflect those of local malls.

I think the whole region stands to benefit and ACAA should lobby hard for more US traffic.
Onorato should definitely make some concessions here to lure the airline.

Things are looking up for Pittsburgh. The Pens are heading to the playoffs,
Westinghouse decided to stay in the region instead of moving down South,
and the Flight Ops center is coming here.

Here is to more air traffic and less empty gates at one of aviation's most valuable untapped
resources!!

The layout of the entire airport is one of the best in the country. Not just the terminal itself, which doesn't require connecting traffic to change terminals, but the runway layout makes for less weather and traffic delays. (9th overall for on time departures). I wish I knew what was going on in the management levels of the ACAA. I would like to see if they are actually bargaining with other airlines or even international carriers.

GO PENS!!!!

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 24):
Absolutely... PIT won't necessarily become a hub again for US, but at least US' presence there can increase, removing some of the stress from PHL. PHL will remain a major US hub and a major internatioal Gateway for US; PIT will be a major "reliever airport" for US. Even if US has 200 daily flights out of PIT, there is still room for a lot more traffic.

I have been saying this for awhile. I see US upgrading back to 200 flights per day in the next 5 to 10 years or so. Seems like a good number. We know we have the gate space. We have the E gates if we needed to move props back over there to give up gates.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 18):
I was on an overbooked A319 in the middle of the day on Wednesday 2 weeks ago...

Let's not talk about this. I was stuck in LAX for 11 hours because of US!

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 17):
Why wouldnt US just add capacity to CLT or PHX if PHL was maxxed out?

As said before, most of the flights from PIT are to east coast destinations. Wouldn't be feasible to sent them to PHX for this. How much traffic does CLT have? Do they have the space for more flights?

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 18):
About this being nothing more than an early April Fool's joke, I hope this is not the case either! I have a feeling that Parker might be wanting to beef up service, likely to existing strongholds from PIT given WN's position in PIT. WN has grown quite rapidly there (Granted, they only serve 7 destinations with 23 departures, but they are now the number 2 carrier, albeit a distand 2 behind US...) I think Parker is a bit intimidated by WN. Let's see... There is this talk of WN expanding DEN... IAD... even entering SFO, which is a strong transcon market for PIT and PHL. Parker "stirs" the PIT markets by lowering fares to pretty much every destination out of PIT. Some regional service is returning, and SEA and SAN service are returning, along with additional service to SFO and LAX. I wonder what some others' thoughts are on this...

I love WN. I would love to see them acquire more gates. They recently remodeled A5 becuase of the new BWI flights. I could see them getting as many as 40 - 50 flights per day.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 18):
PHL and PIT were both hubs for US. US was the most expensive airline flying back circa 2000, and they had to offer high fares to offset the high costs... The problem, the folks at PIT, US' largest hub, could not afford 600 bucks to go one way to PHL or ORD, LGA, DCA, BOS, and various other markets, so O&D was extremely low.

This drove away people for sure. I wouldn't to pay that! We don't have as many wealthy folk here as does PHL. We need competitive prices so people would WANT to fly here. Many people used to go to CMH and CLE because it was much cheaper.
Pittsburgh International Airport lover
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:10 pm

Here's to hoping US will add some sort of service to Nassau, Bahamas from PIT (any expansion is kindly welcomed). They already fly PHL,LGA,DCA,CLT to NAS. Despite this I feel there is market from Western Pennsylvania that warrants a non-stop flight on some semi-regular basis.

US can probably fill this void by offering a weekly service to Nassau similar to the service offered to other regional powerhouses Cancun, Montego Bay and San Juan.

http://i13.tinypic.com/2qu416p.jpg

Cheers,
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luketenley
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 31):
Here's to hoping US will add some sort of service to Nassau, Bahamas from PIT (any expansion is kindly welcomed). They already fly PHL,LGA,DCA,CLT to NAS. Despite this I feel there is market from Western Pennsylvania that warrants a non-stop flight on some semi-regular basis.

US can probably fill this void by offering a weekly service to Nassau similar to the service offered to other regional powerhouses Cancun, Montego Bay and San Juan.

Something I never looked info before. I wonder how many people connect through PHL or CLT to get to the Bahamas from PIT?
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steeler83
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 30):
I would like to see if they are actually bargaining with other airlines or even international carriers.

Like BMI. I guess they could make another stab at landing LH, even though they gave an emphatic "no" a couple years back. They have to be thinking about international travel, especially now that US-EU has been agreed upon. The last I heard, when they landed B6 last June, was that they were talking with AS, F9, and NK. Let's see, I think both US and UA added a DEN flight. Could something, possibly F9-related, have pre-empted them to do that?

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 30):
Let's not talk about this. I was stuck in LAX for 11 hours because of US!

Ewwww!!! Ok, let's not then! Sorry about your bad luck man...

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 30):
I love WN. I would love to see them acquire more gates. They recently remodeled A5 becuase of the new BWI flights. I could see them getting as many as 40 - 50 flights per day.

I would like to see that as well. I was just trying to see what is going on in the head of Doug Parker, and how he would view WN at PIT from his stand point. I don't think he likes them too much...

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 30):
This drove away people for sure. I wouldn't to pay that! We don't have as many wealthy folk here as does PHL. We need competitive prices so people would WANT to fly here. Many people used to go to CMH and CLE because it was much cheaper.

I couldn't afford those rediculous fares myself, and I still cant... Yet... I flew at least 4 times in the past year and a half between PHL and PIT... I flew twice since just last Chirstmas, both times on US Airways... Why? Round trip fares fell to under 100 bucks AFTER fees and tax...

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 32):
Quoting MD90fan (Reply 31):
Here's to hoping US will add some sort of service to Nassau, Bahamas from PIT (any expansion is kindly welcomed). They already fly PHL,LGA,DCA,CLT to NAS. Despite this I feel there is market from Western Pennsylvania that warrants a non-stop flight on some semi-regular basis.

US can probably fill this void by offering a weekly service to Nassau similar to the service offered to other regional powerhouses Cancun, Montego Bay and San Juan.

Something I never looked info before. I wonder how many people connect through PHL or CLT to get to the Bahamas from PIT?

I am sure there is a fair amount of connecting pax at CLT or PHL to connect to the biggest tourist destination in the Caribbean. I suppose enough for at least 2 or 3X weekly on an E90 or an A319...

edited to add another quote, and to remove cockroaches  Smile

[Edited 2007-03-27 06:33:37]
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luketenley
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 33):
Like BMI. I guess they could make another stab at landing LH, even though they gave an emphatic "no" a couple years back. They have to be thinking about international travel, especially now that US-EU has been agreed upon. The last I heard, when they landed B6 last June, was that they were talking with AS, F9, and NK. Let's see, I think both US and UA added a DEN flight. Could something, possibly F9-related, have pre-empted them to do that?

Could be. Or could've been because their DEN flights were almost maxed out. I don't know the numbers. It would be cool to see F9 come in, or other different airlines that we have never seen here, including AS and NK.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 33):
I would like to see that as well. I was just trying to see what is going on in the head of Doug Parker, and how he would view WN at PIT from his stand point. I don't think he likes them too much...

I would guess it's because they are making alot of money. Plus they are a LCC that is taking away from his flights! I'm not sure what he thinks about them at PIT though. I'm sure it doesn't make him very happy. I just wish WN would make PIT a focus city. Or even another airline. Multi- focus city is what I would want here.
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steeler83
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:44 pm

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 34):
Or could've been because their DEN flights were almost maxed out. I don't know the numbers.

Yeah, come to think of it, that would make sense. I guess a lot of people still connect through DEN to get to the West Coast. I have heard from another poster that the CRJ-900 DL flies into SLC is a success... Heck, it beats backtracking to PHL or down to CLT to go west...

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 34):
It would be cool to see F9 come in, or other different airlines that we have never seen here, including AS and NK.

It would be sweet to see any new airline in PIT.

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 34):
I just wish WN would make PIT a focus city. Or even another airline. Multi- focus city is what I would want here.

A multi focus city is my hope, too!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
luketenley
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:48 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 35):
Yeah, come to think of it, that would make sense. I guess a lot of people still connect through DEN to get to the West Coast. I have heard from another poster that the CRJ-900 DL flies into SLC is a success... Heck, it beats backtracking to PHL or down to CLT to go west...

Yeah I would imagine people connect through DEN on UA to get to LAX or other cities since PIT lacks many direct west coast flights. As far as the DL flight, I have heard it's been a success. I could see DL adding more flights in the future as well.
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steeler83
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 36):
Yeah I would imagine people connect through DEN on UA to get to LAX or other cities since PIT lacks many direct west coast flights. As far as the DL flight, I have heard it's been a success. I could see DL adding more flights in the future as well.

DL adding flights, that would downright ROCK!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
luketenley
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:52 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 37):
DL adding flights, that would downright ROCK!

Right now, any airline adding flights would ROCK! DL has a decent presence at PIT. 3rd largest airline I believe.
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steeler83
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 38):
Right now, any airline adding flights would ROCK! DL has a decent presence at PIT. 3rd largest airline I believe.

Yeah, they're not that far behind WN! I think they flew 70-90k passengers in December, 2006. I could look up the data on the flypittsburgh website, but the damned thing is down apparently...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
USPIT10L
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:41 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 31):
Here's to hoping US will add some sort of service to Nassau, Bahamas from PIT (any expansion is kindly welcomed). They already fly PHL,LGA,DCA,CLT to NAS. Despite this I feel there is market from Western Pennsylvania that warrants a non-stop flight on some semi-regular basis.

I think when PIT was a hub, it was a very feasible route, along with PIT-STT. I don't know if it was ever in the cards, though.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 33):
Like BMI. I guess they could make another stab at landing LH, even though they gave an emphatic "no" a couple years back. They have to be thinking about international travel, especially now that US-EU has been agreed upon. The last I heard, when they landed B6 last June, was that they were talking with AS, F9, and NK. Let's see, I think both US and UA added a DEN flight. Could something, possibly F9-related, have pre-empted them to do that?

MAN service would've been nice, especially after BA pulled out in '99, we'll have to wait and see what happens over the next few years with transatlantic service to see how we pan out. F9 was a possibility until CAK opened in 2004. At the time the ACAA was too preoccupied with luring WN here. I doubt we'll ever see F9 except for sports charters now, they have both CLE and PIT locked up with the CAK service.
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md90fan
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 32):
Something I never looked info before. I wonder how many people connect through PHL or CLT to get to the Bahamas from PIT?

Coupled with the little, but important feed, in addition to having Western PA/Ohio feed and service to major Eastern Seaboard markets. I would say enough can be found for a weekly service to one of the busiest destinations in the Caribbean utilizing an aircraft that might otherwise be resting on the frozen tarmac  cool .

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 40):
I think when PIT was a hub, it was a very feasible route, along with PIT-STT. I don't know if it was ever in the cards, though.

True, with in excess of over 500 flights and many far flung places having PIT service it almost could have certainly work. Too bad it never flew though, although USA3000 did do some PIT-NAS charters in 2005 from what I remember.

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tooluther
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:01 am

(The new) Westinghouse also has a lot of operations in the south east, since that's where American nuclear power is concentrated. I'm sure they will be generating some traffic down there that they'd like not to have to one stop in CLT or ATL. It'd be nice to see the service down that way re-established.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 29):
Speaking of which, that new plant they're going to build up in Cranberry... that could really change the landscape up there!

You really won't be able to see it unless you are actual up next to it. Part of the draw of Cranberry Woods is that it is a very secluded office park. Lots of trees sheltering the buildings and lots of water features. When you drive by on 79 you can hardly tell its a development. And it is all office buildings, no plants. All the manufacturing will occur in the south and in china...thus my statement above.
 
luketenley
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:31 am

Here are the airline totals per flypittsburgh.com.

Airline 2006 Total Passengers
US Airways 5,227,389
Southwest 1,138,504
Delta 772,249
United 683,829
Northwest 530,205
Continental 453,348
American 419,246
AirTran 317,038
USA 3000 153,022
JetBlue 128,665
Midwest Airlines 90,102
Air Canada 34,225
Independence 1,227
Total 9,949,049
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ScottB
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:58 am

The issue with PHL is not so much airspace & runway capacity, but how that capacity is being used. The current total number of US+HP daily departures at PHL is only up by 4-5% over 2001; however, while there were over 260 daily mainline departures from PHL by both US and HP combined in March 2001, there are just under 150 today. Actual seat counts on US-coded flights are way down, but departures are up.

It does make sense to move certain regional connecting flights back to PIT if US intends to continue to maintain a focus city/small hub there. Take IPT-PHL, for example. There are 5 daily round-trips on a Dash-8; there is no longer IPT-PIT service. Moving two or three of those flights to PIT (timed to connect with the banks) would free up capacity for other flights at PHL which actually carry some O&D traffic. The main danger, of course, is that so many flights have been previously cut at PIT that you may lose passengers on the flights that are moved over to PIT. Then again, you might pick up passengers who were booking away from US to avoid connections at PHL.

Quoting PrimetimeDC9 (Reply 14):
The downfall of the airline and the fact that PIT was expensive, is what caused them to move out.

Costs at PIT only became a problem once US started slashing capacity there. When US had 500+ daily departures from PIT, per-passenger costs at PIT were very competitive. Think about it this way: if US were to cut flights at CLT by one-half or more, CLT would be considered high-cost as well. And if memory serves, even as a "high-cost" facility, PIT's per-passenger costs are similar to PHL. The big difference is that PHL has far more O&D traffic.

I've said this before in other threads about PIT, but it bears repeating. The decline of the PIT hub is tied closely with the failure of the US Airways network strategy in the Northeast and Midwest. Consider that in the mid-to-late-1990's, US was solidly profitable and the PIT hub was considered the crown jewel of the system. At that time, US Airways was dominant in most Northeast markets -- particularly in New England, New York, Pennsylvania, the Midatlantic, etc. And many travelers in US-dominated markets complained quite loudly about high fares. But several things changed. Southwest started building up its presence at BWI, expanding to over 100 daily departures between 1993 and 2000. Competitors like Delta and Northwest started using regional jets to poach traffic from many markets where US had relied in turboprops. The airline also shrank dramatically -- from 417 mainline aircraft at the end of 2000 to 224 in mid-2006. The retirement of all 100-seat aircraft in the US fleet (DC-9's & F100's) made a number of former mainline routes from PIT unworkable, since the A319 and 733 were too large. PIT was the obvious place to make cuts, since most service was duplicated at PHL -- but that meant fewer flights across which to spread the sunk costs associated with infrastructure at PIT -- i.e. the terminal and other facilities. As the airline continued to make cuts at PIT, per-passenger costs went up, exacerbating the problem. The county/airport was sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars in bonded indebtedness associated with the terminal, and they had to charge what was necessary to cover operating costs and debt service.

I don't honestly see how any blame could lie with the county -- unless one wants to say that they should have pushed back harder on costs when the terminal was being designed. They built what US Airways asked for -- except the whole US Airways business model imploded about 10 years later. It was pretty clear that with the fleet reductions, PIT would be on the chopping block no matter what. They wouldn't dump PHL because of the O&D, and CLT is valuable as the second-best Southeast hub. DCA, LGA, and BOS are all highly valuable O&D markets. Once BWI was dropped, it was obvious that PIT was next.
 
steeler83
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 44):

Wow, so in addition to everything else that lead to the downfall of US (9-11, etc...), WN's expansion of BWI contributed to that as well. Yeah, that was another big station in US' network, wasn't it? Wasn't BWI dropped as a focus city back circa 2000 or so? So I guess instead of flying on US and connecting through PHL or PIT, they could use WN and pay considerably cheaper airfares via BWI. A considerable amount of US' market share therefore went to WN. You know what, I didn't even think that such a maneuver by WN would've been a factor. Maybe this is off topic, but was it a factor in the whole US/UA merger proposal from that same time frame?
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luketenley
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:48 am

Probably why Parker doesn't like WN very much. I'm sure WN will take more flights off US in PIT as well.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:13 am

Did you know: there are 14 destinations in the US Airways system that have at least one flight per day to PHL on a turboprop, but no flights to PIT at all. These destinations are Binghamton, Burlington, Charlottesville, Elmira, White Plains, New Haven, Williamsport, Long Island, Ithaca, Newport News, Roanoke, Salisbury, State College, and Newburgh. I'd seriously wonder what the O&D from those destinations to Philadelphia is, and if it's not very good, I'd say get them over to Pittsburgh...
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ScottB
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:16 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 45):
Wow, so in addition to everything else that lead to the downfall of US (9-11, etc...), WN's expansion of BWI contributed to that as well. Yeah, that was another big station in US' network, wasn't it? Wasn't BWI dropped as a focus city back circa 2000 or so? So I guess instead of flying on US and connecting through PHL or PIT, they could use WN and pay considerably cheaper airfares via BWI. A considerable amount of US' market share therefore went to WN.

If you look back to, say, 1993, US was the dominant carrier (or one of the top two or three carriers) at many of the airports WN added between 1993 and 2001 -- places like PVD, MHT, ALB, BUF, ORF, ISP, BDL, BWI, TPA, MCO, etc. You also have to consider that many other airports in the Northeast saw significant traffic bleed away to airports that WN was serving. People are perfectly willing to drive from Rochester to BUF, for example, to save a few hundred dollars on their plane tickets. But, to be fair, it wasn't just WN; it was also B6 going into upstate New York, FL, Delta Connection/Comair to CVG, etc.

BWI ended up being dropped as a hub/focus city after 9/11/2001 with Metrojet being discontinued as the airline was frantically trying to stop the bleeding. Actually, Metrojet probably would have been shut down or scaled back significantly even without 9/11 happening; the company had proposed that as part of its "Plan B" in August 2001 when the merger failed.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 45):
Maybe this is off topic, but was it a factor in the whole US/UA merger proposal from that same time frame?

Well, I think the merger was in some ways an attempt to try to boost revenue; they needed to do that with the expensive labor contracts at both airlines. Steve Wolf had a history of trying to pretty up airlines with a sale as the final goal -- it's what he did at Republic and (I believe) Flying Tigers; I think he also tried to do it at United before he left. To be honest, once WN started building up in markets that had been dominated by US (in the mid-to-late-90's), the impending train wreck was almost painfully obvious. You can read the company's 1993 Annual Report and see the future in the mention of low-cost competition (and specifically Southwest).
 
pit
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RE: Rumor: US To Add More Flights To PIT

Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:41 am

No matter what PIT will never be a HUB again, at least for US Airways. I do see a WN Focus City thought and US dropping all the routes that WN grabs, but that just what I think.