CV747F
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Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:31 pm

First order of the week

Just in on Reuters:

09:06 26Mar2007 RTRS-GARUDA INDONESIA SAYS SIGNS DEAL TO BUY 25 BOEING 737-800 JETS

JAKARTA, March 26 (Reuters) - Garuda Indonesia has signed a deal to buy 25 Boeing Co. 737-800 jets, the chief executive of the airline said on Monday.
Emirsyah Satar also told a news conference that the cost of each plane was $35-40 million.

Cheers
CV747F
 
LurveBus
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:37 pm

Finally! Now, if only MAS can place an order, too.
 
CV747F
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:49 pm

delivery will be between 2009 and 2012
they made a upfront payment of 23$ mio
do these 23 mio come from their deferred 777 order or is this in addition to it
Cheers
CV747F
 
manni
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:36 pm

Quoting CV747F (Reply 2):
do these 23 mio come from their deferred 777 order or is this in addition to it

That order is more then 10 years old. Garuda also committed to the 787, they announced their intention to purchase 10 of them, 1,5 years ago. In addition they also said they would purchase 18 738 aircraft.
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Lumberton
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:17 pm

Back in 2005 Garuda announced that they were going to order 18 737s. Does this represent an additional 7, or an entirely new order for 25?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
gffgold
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:06 pm

The numbers are getting confusing! They have taken delivery of at least 2 738's over the last year so presumably those came from the 2005 bid(?)
 
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RobK
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:21 pm

Quoting GFFgold (Reply 5):
The numbers are getting confusing! They have taken delivery of at least 2 738's over the last year so presumably those came from the 2005 bid(?)

I think you're confusing yourself! Garuda has NEVER taken delivery of any brand new NG aircraft.

R
 
CV747F
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:23 pm

and it's getting even more confusing after this statement from Garuda's CEO TODAY on Reuters:

Satar said delivery of the lightweight Boeing 787 Dreamliner it ordered two years ago would begin in 2011. In September 2005, Garuda signed a $2 billion deal with Boeing for 28 passenger aircraft, comprising 18 narrow body 737-800s and 10 787-800s.

As far as I know the 787 order has never been inked and it's not on Boeing books...... there's only an order of 18 73G and 6 777.

CV747F
 
CXfirst
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:25 pm

After the crash I'm not surprised that GA are ordering many 738's. Here in Australia the news is advising people to keep out of Indonesia and not to transit there as their safety standards are way lower than they should be.

-CXfirst
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:34 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 6):
I think you're confusing yourself! Garuda has NEVER taken delivery of any brand new NG aircraft.

That is right. There are 2 B738 frames in the Garuda fleet right now (PK-GEE and PK-GEF) both of which are leased in and used to fly with some Turkish charter company. Two more leased 738 frames are expected to join the GA fleet later this year, one of which should arrive imminently.
 
NYC777
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting CV747F (Reply 7):
and it's getting even more confusing after this statement from Garuda's CEO TODAY on Reuters:

Satar said delivery of the lightweight Boeing 787 Dreamliner it ordered two years ago would begin in 2011. In September 2005, Garuda signed a $2 billion deal with Boeing for 28 passenger aircraft, comprising 18 narrow body 737-800s and 10 787-800s.

As far as I know the 787 order has never been inked and it's not on Boeing books...... there's only an order of 18 73G and 6 777.

CV747F

Yo're right. Boeing hasn't booked any 787 order from Garuda, however there is a unidentified order for 10 787-8 on Boeing's web site which is the number that Garuda says they bought.

It is entirely possible that that unidentified order is for Garuda.

I don't think the 73G order will ever get filled but they might transfer those deposits into the 738. The same with the 772ERs....they'll be rolled over into the 788 order.

That is if GA get's their act together.

Another question..how does the 25 x 738 order impact on the 18 x 738 order they said they made in 2005? Is this an addition of 7 738s to that original order or is this a whole new order of 738s (to be a total of 43 738s)?

Boeing does not have an unidentified order for 18 738s on it's web site.

[Edited 2007-03-26 14:58:19]
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CV747F
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 10):
Yo're right. Boeing hasn't booked any 787 order from Garuda, however there is a unidentified order for 10 787-8 on Boeing's web site which is the number that Garuda says they bought.

It is entirely possible that that unidentified order is for Garuda.

I don't think the 73G order will ever get filled but they might transfer those deposits into the 738. The same with the 772ERs....they'll be rolled over into the 788 order

well Garuda's CEO speaks of an 2005 order for 787, the above 10 UFO's are from 2006
regarding the outstanding order of 18 738 I think that are the 18 73G Boeing has on it's books
so in my opionion there this is a new order of 25 738 which has not yet been booked by Boeing in addition to the 18 alraedy ordered.
CV747F
 
NYC777
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:13 pm

Well I hope that Boeing at elast says something now that GA CEO has let the cat out of the bag. There has been a lot of speculation about those UFO orders and who they're for (the large ones).
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UK_Dispatcher
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 8):
After the crash I'm not surprised that GA are ordering many 738's. Here in Australia the news is advising people to keep out of Indonesia and not to transit there as their safety standards are way lower than they should be.

So that means a B738 is safer than a B734, right? - even if it is maintained by the same company??

I hate to bring this argument up (again) but I really don't think this can have anything to do with safety. Unless you are a minister in Indonesia of course.... (planes over 10 years old are unsafe and all that crap!)

Still, good luck to Garuda with the B738s - it is always nice to see the B737's success continuing.
 
NYC777
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting CV747F (Reply 11):
well Garuda's CEO speaks of an 2005 order for 787, the above 10 UFO's are from 2006

They probably signed an LoI or a MoU in 05 but signed the final purchase agreement in 2006.

Obviously we don't klnow all the details until Boeing officially says something.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:08 pm

Garuda is one of those airlines where its nearly impossible to keep track of orders, and even once you have figured out what the airline exactly has on order with a manufacturer, the actual number of airplanes and the variants of a type actually delivered rarely agrees with what was ordered in the first place. (Phillippine Airlines is another one of those carrires where its very difficult to track orders and fleet.) Its unclear exactly why this is the case - financial issues, governmental issues, political climate and the like seem to effect orders and delivery of new aircarft. AIrcraft orders at Garuda seem to be announced, finalized, then revised, deferred, renegotiated and frequently cancelled so often.

Unless and until Boeing makes some type of announcement about a new Garuda order or a revision of existing Garuda orders, we really dont know what it going on. Garuda currently has outstanding orders for 777s (ordered but deferred...at some point this order must be addressed), 787s (was the order ever finalized?....I am not convinced that the UFO order for ten 787s on Boeings books is for Garuda), 73Gs (18 airframes...but Boeing has been using the 73G category for 737NGs that are ordered but the variant selection has not yet finalized....think CO, for example, so the 18 73Gs could end up being 18 738s), and now 738s (25 new orders or does the 25 now announced by GA incorporate the 18 airplanes announced a while ago?) There is a lot going on here, and we are talking about a lot of airframes.....up to 53 airplanes not including the 777s....its unlikely that Garuda is in the position to acquire so many new airplanes.

My guess.....and its only a guess:

Garuda is ordering 25 738s in total and will order 10 787s in total...making 35 new airplanes. Everything else that was previously announced will be incorporated into this one order and Boeing will then clean up its books and records. If the 35 airplanes actually get delivered to Garuda is a whole other story.
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:16 pm

Isn't it possible for Garuda having B787's on order via a lessor? I mean, it is possible that they didn't order them themselves.

Cheers!  wave 
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Lumberton
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
Garuda is ordering 25 738s in total and will order 10 787s in total...making 35 new airplanes.

According to this Bloomberg article, you may be right.

Quote:
Garuda, which in September 2005 agreed to lease 10 Boeing 787-800s and 18 Boeing 737s, said it has since decided to purchase the aircraft. The company has paid $23 million to Boeing, Satar said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=conews&tkr=BA:US&sid=a1jJ8qAO2OEw

So it seems that this is a new order.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
kbdude
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 17):
Quote:
Garuda, which in September 2005 agreed to lease 10 Boeing 787-800s and 18 Boeing 737s, said it has since decided to purchase the aircraft. The company has paid $23 million to Boeing, Satar said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=conews&tkr=BA:US&sid=a1jJ8qAO2OEw

So it seems that this is a new order.

yet no mention of a 10x788 order though.....simply an increase from 18x738 leased to 25x738 bought direct.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
Garuda is one of those airlines where its nearly impossible to keep track of orders, and even once you have figured out what the airline exactly has on order with a manufacturer, the actual number of airplanes and the variants of a type actually delivered rarely agrees with what was ordered in the first place.

That is a direct result of the ever changing management teams in charge of the airline. As it goes, the current CEO has been at the helm relatively long for recent Garuda standards, but a change of management has been rumored already. Every management team likes to think of itself that it has to reinvent the hot water and hence this wishy washy situation, not only in terms of orders but in terms of just about every corporate policy. Whatever happens to the current management, there is surely gonna be a management shake up in 2 years from now, as there will be general elections that will see a new government and thus a new management team for every government owned company.
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:16 am

HB-IWC,
Would the timing of theses B738s have anything to do with the proposed ban in Indonesia of aircraft
more than 10years old? GA would stand to lose quite a few B733 and B734 if that is enforced.
With the B738 having a longer range, does this mean GA will now reinstitute some of their Intl
destinations that were cancelled??
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
AH332
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:24 am

Hi,

Good to finally here some news about Garuda. Actually, to tell you the truth I've been kind of wondering what happened to them. They axed a lot of their European destinations and haven't heard anything about their fleet. Last I heard they were going to get rid of their 747's. Is that still the case? It's good to hear good news out of Indonesia for a change!  Smile After the accident a few weeks back and all the negative press Indonesia's been getting.

Cheers,
Imad
Bledi Heya Al Djazaeer! // Next Flights: AB MIA-DUS-ORY, AF ORY-MRS-ALG
 
Glom
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:08 am

Could this be real? A 737 order in 2007?
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 22):
Could this be real? A 737 order in 2007?

It is real. Congrats to Boeing and GA.

MCOflyer
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WestJetYQQ
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:58 am

WHAT!?!!??!
An Indonesian Carrier is Actually ordering NEW 737's !!?!?!?!???!?
WOW! I can't beleive my eyes!

That's great! It's a good thing to see a possible end to the recent string of indonesian accidents. Glad for Garuda and Boeing!

Cheers
Carson
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Ryanair!!!
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting WestJetYQQ (Reply 24):
WHAT!?!!??!
An Indonesian Carrier is Actually ordering NEW 737's !!?!?!?!???!?
WOW! I can't beleive my eyes!

That's great! It's a good thing to see a possible end to the recent string of indonesian accidents. Glad for Garuda and Boeing!

Cheers
Carson

Lion Air, in case you forgot, also ordered the 737-800 some 2 years back. It remains to be seen how the purchase is to be financed and whether the aircraft will be delivered at all.

New aircraft does not mean an end to the "string of accidents" because most of the time, those incidents reported were largely not aircraft related but rather a more worrying trend of human factors involved. Of course an ill-maintained aircraft can have engine flame outs and such but what I am trying to say is that a brand new aircraft can only bring an airline that far.
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9v-svc
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 25):
Lion Air, in case you forgot, also ordered the 737-800 some 2 years back. It remains to be seen how the purchase is to be financed and whether the aircraft will be delivered at all.

You mean the 900ER ? Yes, I really wonder how is LionAir going to take delivery of 30 of them not to mention all 60 ! I have read so many rumours on GA's plan on it's fleet renewal and I really hope this is for real. Time for them to update their fleet to remain competitive.

Safety aviation issues must be sorted out too, banned those airlines that failed to comply with the min requirements.
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gffgold
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 9):
There are 2 B738 frames in the Garuda fleet right now (PK-GEE and PK-GEF) both of which are leased in and used to fly with some Turkish charter company.

Thanks for the correction. That probably explains why the one I flew on was so non-Garuda in seat config. That one was all-economy without any bulkheads and felt like riding on a bus.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:40 pm

Congrats Garuda. It'll be great to see them getting some new aircraft.
Good goes around!
 
mandala499
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:25 pm

Quote:
WHAT!?!!??!
An Indonesian Carrier is Actually ordering NEW 737's !!?!?!?!???!?
WOW! I can't beleive my eyes!

Lion ordered the 60 739ERs in 2005
Garuda ordered the 738s in 2005
Batavia ordered the A319s in 2005...
Batavia A319s delivered in 2005
Garuda orders/reaffirms 738 orders in 2007

Well... sometimes, things do get done... *grin*

Mandala499
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HB-IWC
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:40 pm

It seems as if this order has yet to be confirmed by Boeing, and will be part of the 2005 deal on 10 B787 + 18 B738. So far, the only news regarding the order has come from the GA CEO and not even a press release has been put out by the airline. We are hearing very little about the exact contents of the deal. I believe that we might end up with the orders for 6 B772ERs and B73Gs being taken off Boeing's books and replaced with and order 10 B787 + 25 B738 although a lower number for the B787 order is entirely possible.

However, the financing for this deal has not yet been cleared, so I believe it might be another while before an official confirmation from Boeing is received. Garuda is obviously facing serious hurdles in securing adequate financing given a mountain of debt from such previous deals, including a USD 500 million debt with the European Export Credit Agency related to the purchase of the 6 A333 frames currently in the fleet.
 
n1786b
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:37 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 29):
Lion ordered the 60 739ERs in 2005
Garuda ordered the 738s in 2005
Batavia ordered the A319s in 2005...
Batavia A319s delivered in 2005
Garuda orders/reaffirms 738 orders in 2007

Well... sometimes, things do get done... *grin*

Mandala499

Don't forget Adam Air ordered 30 Airbus A320s in 2006.

- n1786b

[Edited 2007-03-27 09:37:49]
 
w3ndytj4n
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:40 pm

Wow, great news. Congratulation Boeing and Garuda. Hope this is a real news. I really look forward to see 787 in garuda livery. This has been a while since Garuda purchased a new airplane.

w3ndy
Wendy Tjan
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:19 pm

Bumping this thread up again, as there is now clarity over the link between this order and the September 2005 order for 18 B738 + 10 B787. As it goes, the newly announced order for 25 B738s comprises the 18 B738s already on order since 2005 and an boasts an additional 7 new aircraft. The timetable for delivery of these aircraft is as follows:

- 18 aircraft from the older order to be delivered between May 2009 and October 2010 at a rate of one frame per month, so 8 in 2009 and 10 in 2010 ;

- 7 additional aircraft to be delivered between August 2011 and February 2012 at a rate of one frame per month, so 5 in 2011 and 2 in 2012 ;

According to a company memo, the B787 is still on track to be part of the fleet starting in 2011, but no timetable is offered as to the exact phasing in of these aircraft.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
My guess.....and its only a guess:

Garuda is ordering 25 738s in total and will order 10 787s in total...making 35 new airplanes. Everything else that was previously announced will be incorporated into this one order and Boeing will then clean up its books and records. If the 35 airplanes actually get delivered to Garuda is a whole other story.



Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 33):
Bumping this thread up again, as there is now clarity over the link between this order and the September 2005 order for 18 B738 + 10 B787. As it goes, the newly announced order for 25 B738s comprises the 18 B738s already on order since 2005 and an boasts an additional 7 new aircraft

I got this right.......now I am really frightened! I am not sure that understanding what Garuda is doing with respect to fleet planning is a good thing?
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Garuda Orders 25 B738

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:25 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 34):
I am not sure that understanding what Garuda is doing with respect to fleet planning is a good thing?

Speaking from experience, I can tell you that it is better not to try and understand the intricacies of what motives are behind the decisions taken in the Garuda Indonesia Board of Directors. That said, the B738 issue is as straightforwards as you'll ever get with GA. The real issue here is what will be happening with the B787 order, and, more importantly, what the airline would possibly do with these aircraft.

As it goes, there are not too many international longhaul markets left where Garuda could possibly make money after the local market has been gobbled up by SQ for the premium market and the Middle Eastern carriers for the lower yielding segments. By now, even the A333s are too large for the markets where they are deployed and the 3 B744s are just fine for the airline's few remaining high density destinations.

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