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ERJ170
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More RDU News Included..

Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:34 pm

***United Airlines Upgrades***

United already announced DEN service with a 735 24Apr-04Oct, downgrading to an E70 Oct 4, 2007...

Then they upgraded 2 or RDU's 7 ORD flights to a 735 24Apr-04Oct...

Now they have upgraded 2 of RDU's 7 IAD flights to a 735 07Jun-04Oct...

They must really be looking at getting back into the real mix at RDU...

Great news all around if you ask me.. That will be 6 mainline flights at RDU for United! Not seen since.. well, has it ever been seen?

***New service?***
There is also a new rumor about a new international airline at RDU.. from what I hear, it could lead to some warm destinations for not only RDU.. but a couple of other nearby airlines of similar popn density..

***The Rambling***
Any more news or rumors and I'll be sure to let everyone know about it here.. as long as this thread stays active!
Aiming High and going far..
 
miaskies
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:23 pm

I am surprised MX or AM do not serve RDU. Their is a large Mexican and Central American community in the RDU area, primarily agricultural and industrial workers. I think 2x weekly 318/319 or MD-83/73NG flight could work to Mexico City.

What do you guys think?

As far as other International Service from RDU, hmmm... I think RDU is definetly one of those markets were a smaller medium long haul plane is best fit <787!>. Perhaps we can see Frankfurt with LH? or CDG with AF? Local papers around here have been speculating that those are the 2 most demanded business routes.
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
CVG777
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Thread starter):
There is also a new rumor about a new international airline at RDU.. from what I hear, it could lead to some warm destinations for not only RDU.. but a couple of other nearby airlines of similar popn density..

USA3000?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 1):
Perhaps we can see Frankfurt with LH? or CDG with AF?

Any plane maker than can make an aircraft that seats 180-200 people that can fly 5000nm would have a HIT! There are so many US destinations that would work with that configuration. The 787 may be to much for RDU at the 300 pax scale that would be required.. the 757 doesn't have the necessary range.. the 767 is too much aircraft.. the 330 is too much aircraft..

Until that plane comes up, It may be a while before RDU sees nonstop FRA or CDG.. and see it effectively..

but one never knows what RDUAA is holding in their hat.. they really hint that when the North Concourse of Terminal C opens that something could be on the heels of it.. but who knows..
Aiming High and going far..
 
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casinterest
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Thread starter):
That will be 6 mainline flights at RDU for United

6?
I thought it was 5.

1 DEN
2 ORD
2 IAD

Either way, it is going to be interesting to see the loads this summer, and then see if B6, WN or F9 tries to rush in for the Winter at IAD or DEN.

Is their a possibility that United is going to go ahead and just go back to being mainline in 2008, regardless of the contracts?

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
but one never knows what RDUAA is holding in their hat.. they really hint that when the North Concourse of Terminal C opens that something could be on the heels of it.. but who knows..

With the rate of growth in Raleigh, there is a distinct possibility of International flights in the next few years.
Wake county is currently the 9th fastes growing county in the US. 35000+ added just last year. I would assume for the whole triangle it was between 50 and 60K.

The region is in good shape to weather the housing crisis, as homes never went went sky high.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
LambertMan
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Thread starter):
There is also a new rumor about a new international airline at RDU.. from what I hear, it could lead to some warm destinations for not only RDU.. but a couple of other nearby airlines of similar popn density..

I can't fathom an international airline that has an interest in starting service into Raleigh. Not putting Raleigh down, but it's just not that big and the triangle argument only goes so far. Raleigh just got service to LAX, much much less Mexico City.

If you're talking about warm destinations as in Cancun, look around and you'll see that typically US based carriers operate US-Cancun. American is by far RDU's best shot at operating RDU-CUN with a 738. If AM or MX come into RDU, they won't be providing leisure travel destinations.......
 
miaskies
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 5):
If AM or MX come into RDU, they won't be providing leisure travel destinations.......

Agree, I was leaning more towards service to Mexico City or Monterrey. Focus more on the Native Mexican / Central American community in the triangle area.

I doubt we will see AA building Caribbean/Latin American routes out of RDU...3 letters = MIA. With the exception though of a returning AA RDU-SJU flight, I could see that working a couple times a week.

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 4):
Wake county is currently the 9th fastes growing county in the US. 35000+ added just last year. I would assume for the whole triangle it was between 50 and 60K.

I am one of the new residents!  Smile Just moved up from Miami in January.
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 4):
6?
I thought it was 5.

ha! you right! I need to break my Hooked on Phonics back again and do the math section!

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 5):
American is by far RDU's best shot at operating RDU-CUN with a 738.

American could be a choice, as well as DL.. DL has as much interest in RDU as AA has..

But RDU does have several charter flights to destiantions that occur pretty regularily.. and they used to have consistent charters on Falcon Air to NAS/CUN(?)..

Either way, there are options.. BTW.. there have been interest in service to RDU from airlines, just that none of them came to fruition.. I do recall Aer Lingus at one point had an interest (and this was AFTER AA had closed their hub).. AM or MX.. one of them.. and RDU is actively seeking to fill the gap of their top international destinations (FRA, CDG, NAS/CUN *currently service via charter airlines).. but it will be interesting to see if any of it come true...

Like I said, these are just rumors..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Lexy
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 5):
I can't fathom an international airline that has an interest in starting service into Raleigh. Not putting Raleigh down, but it's just not that big and the triangle argument only goes so far. Raleigh just got service to LAX, much much less Mexico City.

I agree. And also not to put it down as well , because I like that part of the country alot, but RDU has to grow more before things start changing on an international level. Believe me, if markets like BNA, IND, STL (just to name a few), and others that are realtively close to RDU's size can't get service to international destinations, I doubt service from RDU to other international markets would be an easy grab at this point. I could see either of those above markets getting Mexican service before RDU though. Having CLT nearby will at some point come back to bite RDU in the bum I would think. Especially after the renovations and expansions are complete there.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
MAH4546
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:06 am

Raleigh should be counting its blessings to have London. Frankfrut or Paris are not happening.

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 6):
With the exception though of a returning AA RDU-SJU flight,

AA has flown Raleigh-San Juan. The last time they flew the route, back in 2002/2003, the loads were horrific. We are talking about 20-25 people per flight.

Mexico City or Monterrey isn't happening either. Maybe Guadalajara, but Charlotte would get GDL before RDU ever does. Cancun is Raleigh best, and perhaps only, shot at Mexico service.
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MSYtristar
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 7):
American could be a choice, as well as DL..

With ATL being just a 45 minute flight down the road, I seriously doubt that they would add RDU-CUN. I'd say the chances are slim and none, and none just left the building. AA is more likely to add it....or F9, if they ever went to RDU....I actually think RDU-CUN on F9 would do well.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 7):
and RDU is actively seeking to fill the gap of their top international destinations (FRA, CDG

Honestly, I just can't see RDU getting FRA or CDG, certainly not both, anytime soon. As far as Europe goes, for a market the size of RDU, business demand taken into consideration, a daily flight to London is probably all it needs. With LH just across the state in CLT, I wouln't expect them to enter RDU, and since RDU is not a SkyTeam hub, I wouldn't expect CDG service as well. Plenty of cities across the U.S have decent O&D to the major European cities, and many of those do not and will not see direct service to Europe. RDU has London, and is supporting it fairly well. But FRA/CDG....for the next few years at least....not a chance. Again, just my opinion.
 
Danairbus
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 10):
With LH just across the state in CLT, I wouln't expect them to enter RDU, and since RDU is not a SkyTeam hub

LH is part of the Star Alliance not SkyTeam.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting Lexy (Reply 8):
Believe me, if markets like BNA, IND, STL (just to name a few), and others that are realtively close to RDU's size can't get service to international destinations, I doubt service from RDU to other international markets would be an easy grab at this point.

All 3 of those markets already have non-stop international flights to Mexico @ CUN and to Canada to YYZ. I don't see the problem with RDU having CUN service also..

RDU has a lot of international ties.. not saying that its enough to warrant a daily unsubsidized flight.. but the amount is more than anyone up here knows about.. and RDU VRFs than people think..

Quoting Lexy (Reply 8):
Having CLT nearby will at some point come back to bite RDU in the bum I would think.

Why? I can understand, CLT is a hub.. but destination wise.. RDU, CLT, and GSO serve 3 completely opposite markets which actually make NC a very nice place to do business...

Quoting Lexy (Reply 8):
Especially after the renovations and expansions are complete there.

CLT renovations or RDU renovations?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Cancun is Raleigh best, and perhaps only, shot at Mexico service.

Correct. CUN would be the only service that RDU would be looking for. CUN, NAS, FRA, and CDG are the international locations that the Research Triangle Partnership are working on getting from RDU.. that's a Cooperation that worked to get LAX and DEN.. working on SFO.. CUN and NAS are next.. followed by FRA and CDG.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Raleigh should be counting its blessings to have London.

If you don't have a goal to work towards, you will never get to that goal.. whetehr it happens or not, RDU is working on what it feels will be the most requested and highest pax count routes.. if they are FRA and CDG, then they should word towards it. They worked on WN for 5 years before they got them.. And you never know what airlines will be willing to do.

But anyway, I hope that something happens.. but I don't know when...
Aiming High and going far..
 
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 10):

With ATL being just a 45 minute flight down the road, I seriously doubt that they would add RDU-CUN. I'd say the chances are slim and none, and none just left the building. AA is more likely to add it....or F9, if they ever went to RDU....I actually think RDU-CUN on F9 would do well.

Best shot is USA 3000 or Frontier. American doesn't even fly STL-CUN or SJU-CUN (SJU-CUN is a big market, believe it or not), and recently gave up BOS-CUN. I doubt they will fly RDU-CUN.

Quoting Danairbus (Reply 11):

LH is part of the Star Alliance not SkyTeam.

Well, if you didn't cut his sentence in half, I think you'd see he knows that.
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miaskies
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:35 am

As a new Raleigh transplant from Miami, It baffles me how RDU has service to London; yet no service to San Francisco.
I know DL just recently started service to LAX from RDU.

Any chance of seeing SFO service soon? I know it has been speculated and mentioned. Perhaps when Virgin America takes off?

What do you guys think?
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Lexy
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
Why? I can understand, CLT is a hub.. but destination wise.. RDU, CLT, and GSO serve 3 completely opposite markets which actually make NC a very nice place to do business...

Because Charlotte is bigger and is a hub. That is a way to link flights up and gain more PAX per flight than flying to a airport that isn't a hub for anything. RDU isn't quite the destination that CLT is nor is Greenville, SC.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
CLT renovations or RDU renovations?

Charlotte's plans call for quite a few changes on the airfield including, if I am not mistaken, a new terminal. Yes RDU renovations are going on, I know that. But CLT has some grand plans for their airport as well. Some may say that the plans, when finished for CLT, will catapult it up into the top airports in North America.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
RDU has a lot of international ties.. not saying that its enough to warrant a daily unsubsidized flight.. but the amount is more than anyone up here knows about.. and RDU VRFs than people think..

I could say the very same thing for Nashville and Asian markets, along with European markets, but it still isn't enough to warrant flights over the two oceans......YET. RDU, Triangle Research or not, isn't any different as far as business' are concerned than any other city their size and it really isn't a tourist destination per say.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 12):
All 3 of those markets already have non-stop international flights to Mexico @ CUN and to Canada to YYZ. I don't see the problem with RDU having CUN service also..

Does AC Jazz not service RDU?? I thought they did. Frontier is the operator for the Cancun flight and I don't think RDU has them either. Odd. Eitherway, If only you knew the political wrangling that went into the securing of the flight to Cancun from BNA, LOL!! To make a long story short...... Mexican government wanted AM to fly the route, but BNA told them that doesn't fit the market place for that destination. Eventually, BNA won out and got the F9 flight to CUN (which does quite well I might add). Flights to Mexico are not easy to come by is what I am trying to say here.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
Danairbus
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting Lexy (Reply 15):
Does AC Jazz not service RDU?? I thought they did.

Yes AC Jazz serves RDU.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Danairbus (Reply 11):
LH is part of the Star Alliance not SkyTeam.

I was referring to the fact that AF is SkyTeam, as AF would be the one to start RDU-CDG.
 
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:51 am

It's great to see the additional service from UA. Those IAD flights are well timed with UA's 5-6pm and 9pm Int'l banks. When was the last time (I can't recall ever) that RDU had mainline service to IAD from UA?

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 10):

Honestly, I just can't see RDU getting FRA or CDG, certainly not both, anytime soon. As far as Europe goes, for a market the size of RDU, business demand taken into consideration, a daily flight to London is probably all it needs. With LH just across the state in CLT, I wouln't expect them to enter RDU, and since RDU is not a SkyTeam hub, I wouldn't expect CDG service as well. Plenty of cities across the U.S have decent O&D to the major European cities, and many of those do not and will not see direct service to Europe. RDU has London, and is supporting it fairly well. But FRA/CDG....for the next few years at least....not a chance. Again, just my opinion.

I agree, at least right now...but in the next five years, with Open Skies and the growth of the area, additional European service is not totally out of the question. FRA or MUC I see as the most likely candidates. For now RDU does fine funneling its Int'l traffic through any number of east coast gateways.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 15):
RDU isn't quite the destination that CLT is

True, but not for the reasons you imply. RDU actually has more O&D traffic than CLT and RDU's O&D is growing at a faster pace. CLT is the much larger airport and a huge hub capable of generating a great amount of feed for its flights, therefore it is a more likely candidate to see increased Int'l service than a no-hub (no conxn feed) airport like RDU.

You can't really compare the two. RDU would be better compared with an airport like BDL or IND.
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting Lexy (Reply 15):
But CLT has some grand plans for their airport as well.

CLt is a hub and it's plans are because it is a hub.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 15):
Because Charlotte is bigger and is a hub.

If CLT were not a hub like RDU.. they would be exactly the same.. you would see roughly the same amount of passengers to the same locations at roughly the same frequency. CLT is no grander than RDU. It just happens to be a hub airport. I'm not putting CLT down because it really is a great airport, but both would service roughly the same traffic if both were on equal footing.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 15):
RDU isn't quite the destination that CLT is

Actually, it is.. exactly the same.. the only difference is CLT is stronger in Financials while RDU is stronger in Biotech/Pharma/Comp Sci.. and GSO is strongest at Furniture and moving towards aeronautics..

Quoting Lexy (Reply 15):
but it still isn't enough to warrant flights over the two oceans......YET

The discussion is about one ocean.. and from the get go, I never said anything about service over the ocean..that's just how the discussion has grown.. I have not stated where the rumored service was to at any point... but i have let the discussion grow to see where it would lead.. And boy did it go places!

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 17):
I was referring to the fact that AF is SkyTeam, as AF would be the one to start RDU-CDG.

With the new OS agreement, it doesn't have to be AF.. it could be anybody.. and it could be something as simple as RDU-FRA 4x weekly, RDU-CDG 3x weekly using one aircraft.. it could work.. but, again.. I never said where the place was because if it didn't come to fruition, i didn't want to be starting anything..

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 14):
yet no service to San Francisco.

If VS takes off, I'm sure you will find RDUAA will be at their door very soon and very quickly.. SFO is not an if, but a when.. It took 1 year for LAX, 1.5 year for DEN, and I predict SFO sometime late this year.. or early next..

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Best shot is USA 3000

I actually wrote them last year to see if they had any plans for RDU.. at the time, they stated they were looking at starting flights out of CLT.. still no service, which is disappointing, but at least they were contemplating NC.

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 18):
RDU would be better compared with an airport like BDL or IND.

My normal comparisons with RDU is BNA, IND, AUS, and SJC.. all around the same pax count... but vastly different service..
Aiming High and going far..
 
cltguy
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:54 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 18):
True, but not for the reasons you imply. RDU actually has more O&D traffic than CLT and RDU's O&D is growing at a faster pace.

That used to be the case but its not anymore. CLT saw dramatic growth in O&D traffic in 2006. It's O&D levels are now neck and neck with RDU. O&D growth at RDU last year was 1%....and at CLT it was 15%. This is due to the entrance of jetBlue, Airtran, and USAirways lowering their local fares.

Since fares dropped considerably in Charlotte we have pulled local traffic that in the past went to GSO. I don't know how long this explosive growth will last, but the most recent stats showed that 2007 passenger numbers are tracking 20% higher than 2006 levels. They will be opeing a new 3,000 space parking deck in a few weeks and they just announced another 4,000 space parking deck to start construction this summer.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:19 am

Newest update..

No new service...

No new rumors..

Midwest Connect will operate form Terminal A.. gate unknown.. only open gate is A10, but I don't think it has a jetway AND it is right beside AirTran.. I don't think Midwest Connect would actually want that one.. call me crazy..

That's it..
Aiming High and going far..
 
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CV880
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:55 am

Much of RDU's O&D traffic due to UNC,NCState,Duke....would be willing to bet that the levels decrease during the summer recess. As for CLT, O&D increasing due to competition from lower fare carriers...also more geographically centered as a draw from both NC/SC.

Believe that AA once flew RDU-SJC, but was cut when SJC was downsized. RDU could probably support nonstop Bay Area service on A320 & 737-700/800 type aircraft, probably could support CUN service during school breaks.

As for FRA/CDG, CLT has service to both FRA & MUC, and the Germans have interests in nearby upper SC, which helps. Surprisingly US doesn't see fit to utilize their CLT Hub for additional European Flights (other than LGW/FRA).
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting CV880 (Reply 22):
Much of RDU's O&D traffic due to UNC,NCState,Duke

How many college students do you know that can afford to fly enough to significantly affect an airport's O&D? Trust me.. as a graduate of UNC-Chapel Hill.. I can tell you.. students do not make up significant traffic.. unless you talking about around holidays or spring/fall break. And besides, no one from AgTech (NCSU) travels past the cow fields.. and everybody at DOOK has their own private jet that only flies to NJ directly out of their dormrooms.. dang Dookies.. Ohhh.. you done got me started.. Go HEELS! (even though we out of the NCAAs.. Sad we did at least carry the ACC the fartherest)

RDU actually has 50/50 leisure/business traffic.. and traffic generally remains stable year round.. if anything, traffic increases June-Aug.. while most students are not in school..

Quoting CV880 (Reply 22):
Believe that AA once flew RDU-SJC, but was cut when SJC was downsized. RDU could probably support nonstop Bay Area service on A320 & 737-700/800 type aircraft, probably could support CUN service during school breaks.

I don't know if AA flew the route.. but I know JI did.. I do believe that the best option would be SFO over OAK or SJC.. it's centrally located and has higher O&D... alas, if only UA or VA would see that.. but I digress..

As for CUN, RDU does get charter service.. I don't know how frequently, but Im sure that some scheduled service could be profitable.. except I'm thinking more E70/E90 service rather than 320/738...

Quoting CV880 (Reply 22):
Germans have interests in nearby upper SC, which helps.

Germans actually have ties all over NC.. from the coast to the mountains.. financial, biotech, IT, etc..
Aiming High and going far..
 
ewmahle
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:59 am

AA still runs it's RDU-LGW route with AAs 777 and does accept connecting passengers from other AA and AA Eagle flights (Ex: STL-RDU-LGW). Would it not be feasible for an international airline to code share with a smaller provider into RDU if there is such a heavy market for European business destinations from the Raleigh area? I would imagine for the frequent business travler that an easier connection through a smaller airport like RDU would be more desireable than through a large airport like ORD, JFK, Etc. However, in the case of cancelations or MX issues you are stranded.

I think an excellent example could be with UA and LH. As this thread stated UA is expanding service into RDU, and FRA as cited above, is a poular destination among business travelers. Any possibility of creating an agreement into RDU and if not what would be the major turnoffs for UA and LH? (This hypothetical situation assumes that the PAX flow is sufficient to support the flights.)
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:10 am

In my opinion.. there currently is not the right sized aircraft to offer additional internation service to RDU...

RDU is a midsized market.. much like IND, BNA, STL, etc.. and service would be best served on mid-sized aircraft..

there is not a midsized aircraft 150-220 seats that has the range to correctly serve these kinds of markets..

a 757-esque aircraft with 764 range would work best...

But to answer your question.. UA would just use service from IAD.. US would use service from CLT.. AA would use service from JFK.. CO would use service from EWR.. DL would use service from ATL.. NW would use service from DTW.. RDU is basically locked between all the other hubs to get service.. but the Airport Authority is still working away at it.
Aiming High and going far..
 
LambertMan
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:37 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 23):
I don't know if AA flew the route.. but I know JI did.. I do believe that the best option would be SFO over OAK or SJC.. it's centrally located and has higher O&D... alas, if only UA or VA would see that.. but I digress..

They canceled it before it every got off the ground. If memory serves me correctly, the bookings were tanking pretty hard and the SJC focus city was obviously on its way out anyway.

Quoting Ewmahle (Reply 24):

I think an excellent example could be with UA and LH. As this thread stated UA is expanding service into RDU, and FRA as cited above, is a poular destination among business travelers. Any possibility of creating an agreement into RDU and if not what would be the major turnoffs for UA and LH? (This hypothetical situation assumes that the PAX flow is sufficient to support the flights.)

I'm going to reflect the same sentiment MAH did earlier in the discussion. RDU is definitely not getting a second European flight in even the foreseeable future. The triangle obviously relies on the LGW flight, but wouldn't that constitute most of the passengers going to Europe from Raleigh anyway? I'm sorry, Raleigh just isn't that big, the critical mass isn't there to support two European flights.

Mountains, coastlines, seasonal or twice weekly isn't enough incentive. Hope for San Francisco/Bay Area and Cancun, that's the best the market can command.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:46 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 26):
Hope for San Francisco/Bay Area and Cancun, that's the best the market can command.

Right now, the market is ripe for the following markets based on O&D alone..

SFO
CUN
NAS
SEA
SAN


Agreed no EU besides LGW right now.. still got a bit more growing to do.. AA 777 is certainly the crown of RDU right now!
Aiming High and going far..
 
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CV880
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:50 am

ERJ, I grad from UNC-CH, probably before you were born, and RDU was swamped with college students (riding on standby youth fares) way back then....
CLT is a better Carolinas HUB for air traffic, both geographically and population wise. That's why PI did what they did almost 30years ago....
You will eventually secure nonstop trips to the Bay Area, most likely on AA or WN, maybe DL, probably not UA.
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting CV880 (Reply 28):
ERJ, I grad from UNC-CH, probably before you were born,

Regardless of when one was Chapel Hill.. you're always home there..

Quoting CV880 (Reply 28):
RDU was swamped with college students (riding on standby youth fares) way back then....

Well, i wonder what the percentage of college students would be?

Quoting CV880 (Reply 28):
CLT is a better Carolinas HUB for air traffic,

I guess.. I like CLT airport.. I"m not a CLT city fan though.. so I guess I am prejuidiced..  Smile
Aiming High and going far..
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 23):
How many college students do you know that can afford to fly enough to significantly affect an airport's O&D? Trust me.. as a graduate of UNC-Chapel Hill.. I can tell you.. students do not make up significant traffic.. unless you talking about around holidays or spring/fall break. And besides, no one from AgTech (NCSU) travels past the cow fields.. and everybody at DOOK has their own private jet that only flies to NJ directly out of their dormrooms.. dang Dookies.. Ohhh.. you done got me started.. Go HEELS! (even though we out of the NCAAs.. Sad we did at least carry the ACC the fartherest)

Ahh, the University of No Class... Proud to school the likes of Mike Nifong and Muhammed Taheri-Azar. NCSU/UNC/Duke do in fact bring in much business traffic. There are many conferences held on their respective campuses. Duke's Medical Center is well known throughout the country and even the World. It attracts students from all over the World. With the wealth many of their families have, they roll in F/C class. NC State has a large conference facility at the McKimmon center that hosts a wide variety of conferences and their Vet School was ranked 3rd (last I heard, prob circa 2004) in the U.S. and is expanding quite rapidly. And of course UNC has a great 18th century French poetry program which probably attracts one or two visitors...  Smile

Don't forget, student's family and friends also come visit...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 30):
Ahh, the University of No Class

Wow.. someone had a SuperSize of HaterAid.. Big grin

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 30):
NCSU/UNC/Duke do in fact bring in much business traffic.

yes, it is true.. I shall rethink my earlier notion and say the collegiate aspect does bring in sufficient traffic..  Smile
Aiming High and going far..
 
ejmmsu
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:41 am

RDU-AMS is shorter than DTW-FRA, a route NW is using their newly reconfigured 757's on.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:09 am

I was looking at some seat maps (I know, they're not always reliable, but...) for the AA 777s to LGW and noticed that the 777s are less than half full mid-week (Wednesday-ish). But, they're completely filled on the weekends. So is AA making profit on those less than half full flights? The 777 seems like overkill for RDU on the mid-week days.

Also, what are the chances of a RDU-AVL or RDU-GSP flight? I know the concept of intra-Carolina flights is kind of dead, but it's a thought. I think AVL could support a couple times a week to Raleigh. And I'd say GSP could probably fill a daily flight.
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:18 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 33):
Also, what are the chances of a RDU-AVL or RDU-GSP flight?

As recently as 3 years ago, USX used to fly both. 2x GSP and 1x AVL on B1900's. They went away without much fanfare... I flew on both a few times. IIRC, this was not long after the crash at CLT.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 34):
As recently as 3 years ago, USX used to fly both. 2x GSP and 1x AVL on B1900's. They went away without much fanfare... I flew on both a few times. IIRC, this was not long after the crash at CLT.

OK, so that was after 9-11. Do you ever see that coming back? Of course US Express doesn't have the B1900s anymore, but maybe with the Dash-8s or ERJs... I could see it making a profit.
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
pdxtriple7
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:33 am

If you can't go to Duke go to state, if you can't go to state go to jail, if you can't go to jail go to hell. Go to hell Carolina, Go to hell.

On breaks their certainly is quite a bit of college traffic, but besides breaks the effect is most likely neglible. Service to the Pacific Northwest would be nice. Everytime I go home there are several people that talk about the lack of service between SEA/PDX/SFO to RDU. PDX and SEA do offer flights to CLT.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting PDXtriple7 (Reply 36):
If you can't go to Duke go to state, if you can't go to state go to jail, if you can't go to jail go to hell. Go to hell Carolina, Go to hell.

Ohhh.. education at it's best.. Big grin LOL.. Go to Duke.. heheheh.. sure.. paid 5x more for an education that is worth 0.05% the price of the paper it is printed on.. ahhh.. got to love to hate the Dookies.. Anybody But Dook..
Aiming High and going far..
 
JDAirCEO
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:05 am

AA used to also fly RDU-AVL, but it was basically a connecting flight for the hub. They also served RIC, ORF, and many other short routes in the area.

US still has B1900s and uses them from RDU to ORF and CHS. I've flown RDU-CHS flights a few times, and suprisingly, they were full flights.

Yes, RDU-LGW is rather empty on midweek flights. During the low season, midweek flights, it isnt uncommen to have a load of 45 passengers. Most of the year will see F,J cabins full, and rarely does F go out with less than 10 seats occupied. Many of these bookings are last minute AAirpass bookings from local companies, so they are paying full fare. As has been commented many times before, this flight is full of cargo. If you watch the flight arrive and depart, the entire ground time is spent loading and unloading cargo, its always 100% full in the cargo holds.
An MD-80 is great... in first class
 
articulatexpat
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 33):
Also, what are the chances of a RDU-AVL or RDU-GSP flight? I know the concept of intra-Carolina flights is kind of dead, but it's a thought. I think AVL could support a couple times a week to Raleigh. And I'd say GSP could probably fill a daily flight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway_Airlines_%28JI%29

Prior to 9/11, Midway Airlines was based at RDU and served a few NC destinations. The list on its Wikipedia page surprised me: I thought there was a lot more NC service than just New Bern (EWN) and RDU itself. (They also served SJC and LAX.) Although I haven't lived in NC for years, my parents are still in Greenville (PGV). NC is a very long state, east-to-west. Longest in the Lower 48. I've always wondered if someone other than US could make intrastate (or intra-Carolinas) flights work. I don't buy the "if it could be done, someone would have already done it" argument in aviation, because it overlooks population growth, economic development, and limitations on the resources (planes and capital) of carriers. Case in point, others have made a great case for RDU being able to support SFO, SEA, etc right away, and within the next couple/few years, CDG and FRA. I don't know what the numbers are between city pairs like RDU-AVL or ILM-GSO, but down the road several more years, with continued growth, I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries it.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting Articulatexpat (Reply 39):
I don't know what the numbers are between city pairs like RDU-AVL or ILM-GSO, but down the road several more years, with continued growth, I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries it.

Personally myself, I could see intra-Carolina service on something like the Grand Caravan and the Embraer 120/Dash 8.. Here's what I mean..

Grand Caravan routes... (Priced $70-130/each way)

RDU-PGV/HKY/SOP/Florence/
GSO-PGV/HKY/SOP/Florence/GSP/MQI/HHH
ILM-AVL/MQI/CHS/GSP/HKY
AVL-EWN/MQI/CHS/PGV
CHS-Florence/HHH/EWN/FAY/CAE/GSP
CAE-Florence/MYR/HHH/ILM/MQI/AVL/GSO/
ORF-MQI/AVL/CAE/EWN/ROA

Embraer 120/Dash 8-300 routes (Priced $75-150/each way)

RDU-EWN/CHS/MYR/HHH/MQI/ILM/CAE/AVL/FAY/ORF/RIC/ROA
GSO-FAY/CHS/MYR/AVL/CAE/ORF/RIC
ORF-CHS/MYR/FAY

Just some examples off the top of my head.. hehehehe..
Aiming High and going far..
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:19 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 40):

Grand Caravan routes... (Priced $70-130/each way)

Hmm, I don't think we'll see any Grand Caravans entering service for the Carolinas. Maybe something like a 19-seat B1900 instead. And to add to that AVL list:

AVL-EWN/MQI/CHS/PGV/GSP/MYR/GSO

The AVL-MYR flight could probably be on the Dash 8/EMB-120 list.
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
MAH4546
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:46 am

Intra-Carolina service is a pipe dream. Not happening. If someone tries it, it won't last more than six months.

All states talk about how they "need" intra-state service and how it is so vital, and when airlines, small or start-up, try it out, it rarely ever works. Intra-state service is only nessecary in a handful of states, and usually because of geography.
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flydreamliner
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 14):
As a new Raleigh transplant from Miami, It baffles me how RDU has service to London; yet no service to San Francisco.
I know DL just recently started service to LAX from RDU.

AA's very confusing 772ER service between RDU-LGW is only because of some big drug company in the RDU triangle area. I want to say it is Glaxo-Smithkline, but I'm not sure. In any event, some large drug company contracts with AA for x number of seats on that plane in order to link their operations in RDU and LON. Why it isn't operated on a 763ER, I can't figure out.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 25):

a 757-esque aircraft with 764 range would work best...

Such a plane exists - 767-200ER - maybe a touch more range, but it's all about the same.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 29):

Quoting CV880 (Reply 28):
RDU was swamped with college students (riding on standby youth fares) way back then....

Well, i wonder what the percentage of college students would be?

Well, like six days a year, it's huge. Otherwise student traffic isn't that significant.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 43):
Why it isn't operated on a 763ER, I can't figure out.

Cargo and rotation.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 43):
Such a plane exists - 767-200ER -

And so you are right.. a 762ER 3 class would be the right aircraft... Hmmm.. makes me wonder..
Aiming High and going far..
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:54 pm

****News Update******


1. Air Canada Jazz looks to be adding their 4th seasonal flight into a yearly flight.

2. RDU-STL/LGA/AUS mainline flights start in 8 days...

That's all I got right now.. anyone else have anything?
Aiming High and going far..
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 23):
And besides, no one from AgTech (NCSU) travels past the cow fields..

Hey, even though I'm just a lowly Master's student at State, I resent that remark  Wink I'm involved enough in the nonprofit I work with to have to fly to SLC and NYC about twice a year on each.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 42):
Intra-Carolina service is a pipe dream. Not happening. If someone tries it, it won't last more than six months.

AirSouth tried it back in the early '90s based out of CAE on 737s. Not sure of what their routes into NC were, but I do recall them running service on the I-26 corridor in SC (GSP-CAE-CHS) as well as service to MYR and ATL. Even subsidized by the state of South Carolina and the city of Columbia, it was a spectacular failure. I think the best option for intra-Carolina service would be to continue the partnership with Amtrak to try to fully span the I-40 corridor (Wilmington-Raleigh-Charlotte-Asheville) and then try to similarly do the same thing in SC along the I-26 corridor as well as maybe the I-20 corridor (it's just a bit ridiculous that to visit Greenville without driving that I'd have to take the train to DC first and then arrive in Greenville some 27-28 hrs after I departed!)

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 45):
2. RDU-STL/LGA/AUS mainline flights start in 8 days...

Pardon any ignorance here, but what equipment?

Quoting PDXtriple7 (Reply 36):
If you can't go to Duke go to state, if you can't go to state go to jail, if you can't go to jail go to hell. Go to hell Carolina, Go to hell.

We're the Red and White from State and we know we are the best. A hand behind our back, we can take on all the rest. Go to hell Caroline! Devils and Deacs stand in line! The Red and White from N.C. State - Go State!

Now, as an alumnus of the University of South Carolina, don't get me started on which is the "real" Carolina...or the real USC for that matter  Wink
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:01 pm

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 46):
Hey, even though I'm just a lowly Master's student at State, I resent that remark

Tobacco Road.. gotta love it..

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 46):
Pardon any ignorance here, but what equipment?

MD80

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 46):
Now, as an alumnus of the University of South Carolina, don't get me started on which is the "real" Carolina...or the real USC for that matter

Let's See... UNC-Chapel Hill started in 1789 as the "First Public University in the Nation".. USC stated in 1801. I would say there is nothing to get started as the fist Carolina was clearly the University of North Carolina..

Now, as for the first real USC.. I would say the same arguement can be made.. since USouthCarolina was started in 1801 and USouthernCalifornia was founded 1880.. then USouthCarolina is clearly the original.

So, If A = B and B = C, then A must = C.. so .. If UNC was first and USC was orginal, then UNC must be the first original! Hey! There ya go!
Aiming High and going far..
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 46):
AirSouth tried it back in the early '90s based out of CAE on 737s. Not sure of what their routes into NC were, but I do recall them running service on the I-26 corridor in SC (GSP-CAE-CHS) as well as service to MYR and ATL. Even subsidized by the state of South Carolina and the city of Columbia, it was a spectacular failure.

Well, if they tried it with 737s, that's obviously way too much capacity. In order to be effective, it needs to be in a small turboprop. Jets are just too inefficient for these short hops.

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 46):
I think the best option for intra-Carolina service would be to continue the partnership with Amtrak to try to fully span the I-40 corridor (Wilmington-Raleigh-Charlotte-Asheville) and then try to similarly do the same thing in SC along the I-26 corridor as well as maybe the I-20 corridor (it's just a bit ridiculous that to visit Greenville without driving that I'd have to take the train to DC first and then arrive in Greenville some 27-28 hrs after I departed!)

Wait, are we talking about planes or trains here?
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: More RDU News Included..

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 48):
Wait, are we talking about planes or trains here?

In this particular case, trains. NCDOT lhas been pertty active in trying to restore intra-NC train service and the current Piedmont line between Raleigh and Charlotte is the first step in this. If we're talking about linkages between the mid-size and larger communities in NC it seems like this might be the best option.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.

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