NYC777
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EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:01 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=con...id=apGl_EgygZrQ



By Massoud A. Derhally March 26 (Bloomberg) -- Tim Clark, President of Emirates, the largest Arab airline, will visit Airbus SAS in France next week before deciding whether to order as many as 100 Airbus' A350 or Boeing Co.'s 787.

''We still don't know enough about the A350 XWB. I'm in Toulouse next week to look at the A350 just to have a closer look and see how it's evolved from where it was a year ago,'' Clark said in a telephone interview today from Dubai, United Arab Emirates. ''We will be in a better position to decide what we are going to do and take it from there.''

''We have quite a lot of information on the 787,'' he said.


I think the last line is a very telling line. EK has scant information on the A350 and admits to having a lot of information on the 787. I think Clark is going to Toulouse to get little bit more pricing concession out of Boeing but I think Boeing and EK are ready to launch the 787-10.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:05 pm

I'm not sure that Clark ever really though that he'd buy the XWB, although to contradict myself they should have ordered some dreamliners ages ago as they'll have to wait years for them now.

Just imagine if they did order 100 and QR ordered 80 what a boost for the programme that would be!
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
Just imagine if they did order 100 and QR ordered 80 what a boost for the programme that would be!

Yep that would bring that program back.

We also have to wonder how the A380 delays all play into this. Clark was moaning about the A380 being 6 tons overweight and he is in negotiations with Boeing over the 748I.

A few years ago Boeing wasn't even thinking about the -10 version but now they are so the only real option a few years ago was to get the -9 for a 2010 delivery. If they go with the -10 they'll most certainly get it in 2012. I'm sure Boeing wouldn't be stupid enough to not save a few spots in 2012 on out for the -10 deliveries.

Some existing orders for the -8 and -9 can also be converted to the -10 (like for SQ and QF).
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LifelinerOne
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:12 pm

Really, how much media-attention does the man and his airline need...

EK is telling the world for more than two years now that they are on the way to Seattle or Toulouse to get more information about planes and that they are about to order 100 planes in the B787/A350-category. I mean, really, If he keeps saying it and doesn't order it he will loose his credibility in my opinion.

On the other hand, Clark is a master in negotiating and saying a lot in public does put the pressure on for the manufacturers.

It's just one of those "I'm still alive and kicking" messages and we'll just have to wait and see...

Cheers!  wave 
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NYC777
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 3):
On the other hand, Clark is a master in negotiating and saying a lot in public does put the pressure on for the manufacturers.

That's the only reason why he talks in public like that.

He's just a business man trying th get the best price possible by whatever legal means necessary.
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boeingfever777
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:24 pm

What is their to look at on the A350? Still very little is known about the final model of it.

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
I think Clark is going to Toulouse to get little bit more pricing concession out of Boeing but I think Boeing and EK are ready to launch the 787-10.

Agreed, I think Clark already knows he is going 787 and wants abit better price from Boeing.

Only time will tell...
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atmx2000
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
I'm not sure that Clark ever really though that he'd buy the XWB, although to contradict myself they should have ordered some dreamliners ages ago as they'll have to wait years for them now.

I'm going to take him at his word this time that he doesn't have information about the A350XWB. I suspect the definition is pretty vague still. Airbus still haven't gotten that SQ order signed.
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dutchjet
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
I think the last line is a very telling line. EK has scant information on the A350 and admits to having a lot of information on the 787.

Isnt this odd....Finnair, TAP Portugal and Aeroflot seem to have enough information about the A350 to reconfirm their orders for the type, but EK only has scant information concerning the A350? Something is not right here.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
We also have to wonder how the A380 delays all play into this. Clark was moaning about the A380 being 6 tons overweight and he is in negotiations with Boeing over the 748I.

Dont forget the A346 affair. It certainly seems as if there is a strain on the Dubai-Toulouse relationship.....or this one big show for the media and an attempt by EK to get more concessions and better prices out of Airbus?

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
Airbus still haven't gotten that SQ order signed

Good point......we have not heard much about SQ's A333/A359 deal lately, that is strange, there was so much fanfare about getting SQ onboard the A350 program.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
QR ordered 80

Another long drama......some think that Qatar is playing wait and see, and will order whichever type that EK orders....and some think the exact opposite and are convinced that Qatar will order the type that EK does NOT order in an attempt to lock in very low pricing.

Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 5):
Agreed, I think Clark already knows he is going 787 and wants abit better price from Boeing.

More and more people are thinking this......that we will see the 787-10 launched in Paris with an EK order for 50 airplanes and 50 options.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:46 pm

For an airplane still 14+ months away from having the design frozen I don't know what good looking at what they have now...

Of course Airbus has a solid track record lately of picking one route and going with it, so maybe he knows something we don't Big grin
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Isnt this odd....Finnair, TAP Portugal and Aeroflot seem to have enough information about the A350 to reconfirm their orders for the type, but EK only has scant information concerning the A350? Something is not right here.

Well the first two are dedicated Airbus operators. They'll sign on even if there isn't enough info. SU was a purely political order made at the Kremlin, not at SU's corporate offices.
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 9):

Well the first two are dedicated Airbus operators. They'll sign on even if there isn't enough info. SU was a purely political order made at the Kremlin, not at SU's corporate offices.

Agreed on all counts: but even dedicated customers dont by airplanes with only ""scant" information available.  confused 
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
I'm in Toulouse next week to look at the A350 just to have a closer look and see how it's evolved from where it was a year ago,'' Clark said in a telephone interview today from Dubai

In all industries... doesn't the salesman usually travel to the customer to show off the product/design? not the other way around....

This has to be an EK negotiation tactic to squezze a better price out of BOEING for the 787's. Although you would think that by the simple fact that you are ordering 100 WB planes...by default you are getting huge discounts already......
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Isnt this odd....Finnair, TAP Portugal and Aeroflot seem to have enough information about the A350 to reconfirm their orders for the type, but EK only has scant information concerning the A350? Something is not right here.

Yeah Clark is sounding off again........

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Dont forget the A346 affair. It certainly seems as if there is a strain on the Dubai-Toulouse relationship.....or this one big show for the media and an attempt by EK to get more concessions and better prices out of Airbus?

The A346 affair was nothing to do with Airbus - EK ordered the plane in good faith and Airbus was perfectly able to deliver the plane that EK ordered. EK decided that they didn't want it anymore and then raised hell..... actually it has never been explained what has happened to their order as they never actually cancelled - it was suggested that they had sold their slots to someone else but silence....

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Good point......we have not heard much about SQ's A333/A359 deal lately, that is strange, there was so much fanfare about getting SQ onboard the A350 program.

Well the A330 orders have gone through so that does suggest that the XWBs will be ordered at some point - I wonder if these are being hoarded for Paris?
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 5):
Agreed, I think Clark already knows he is going 787 and wants abit better price from Boeing.



Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
I think Clark is going to Toulouse to get little bit more pricing concession out of Boeing

Just keep in mind that Qatar recently announced that they will order up to 80 A350 soon and shortly after that announcement Clark is going to Toulouse - I don´t think this is a coincidence.
If EK was really interested in the 787 they would already have placed a big order.Delivery slots for the 787 are rare and with airlines like BA, AA, DL, LH and others that will order the 787 or A350 soon delivery slots for 100 aircraft will be hard to get. Clark also knows that Airbus is in a weak position right now and the compensation for the A380 delay is still open. Airbus can not afford to loose such a big customer to Boeing and therefore is willing to make a good price for EK together with the A380 compensation Airbus can offer them a very sweet deal.
I also believe that the A350-800, 900 and A350-1000 are much closer to what EK is looking for as the 787-10 is.
With the A350 they can replace everything from the A330-200 - 777-300ER. This is what Airbus is aiming at with A350 anyway.
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 12):
Well the A330 orders have gone through so that does suggest that the XWBs will be ordered at some point - I wonder if these are being hoarded for Paris?

I thought the A330 order was part of the A380 compensation package not part of the A350 deal?
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Stitch
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:02 am

I continue to believe that EK will order the 787-9 and 787-10, most likely by or at Paris.

And I continue to believe that 787 order will in no way deter EK from also ordering the A350XWB-900 and A350XWB-1000 - perhaps also by or at Paris.
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 12):
Well the A330 orders have gone through so that does suggest that the XWBs will be ordered at some point - I wonder if these are being hoarded for Paris?

Well, that's an option.

Also, what has become to the downpayments on their "deferred" A340-600 order? Emirates is an airline with sufficient funding, but it would be somehow a pity to lose that money. On the other hand, a total cancellation of the A340-600 order as a compensation for the delayed A380 could also be an option.

Quoting Kbdude (Reply 11):
In all industries... doesn't the salesman usually travel to the customer to show off the product/design? not the other way around....

Not always. A lot of airline CEO's travel frequently to Seattle or Toulouse to see how planes are being build and to have a look at the cabin mock-up showroom or something like that. It's always good to have an impression where your multi-million-dollar-order is being produced.

Cheers!  wave 
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scouseflyer
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14):

I thought the A330 order was part of the A380 compensation package not part of the A350 deal?

Sort of but the A330s are on a lease deal until the XWBs arrive - it would be a strange thing to do to get interim lift if you weren't getting the eventual planes?
 
atmx2000
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:06 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
With the A350 they can replace everything from the A330-200 - 777-300ER. This is what Airbus is aiming at with A350 anyway.

It's questionable that they are looking to replace the 773ER at this point. Their fleet would be pretty young at they EIS of the A350-1000. And it remains to be seen whether the A358XWB is competive with the 789, if ER is actually interested in an aircraft in that class.

Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
Delivery slots for the 787 are rare and with airlines like BA, AA, DL, LH and others that will order the 787 or A350 soon delivery slots for 100 aircraft will be hard to get.

The thing is Boeing has 5 years to ramp up capacity and create more slots. Because the A350XWB EIS is so far after even 789 EIS, Boeing can assess how much captive demand there is for aircraft before 2013-2014 and make a decision about ramping capacity before Airbus can do anything about it.
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Stitch
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:06 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 17):
Sort of but the A330s are on a lease deal until the XWBs arrive - it would be a strange thing to do to get interim lift if you weren't getting the eventual planes?

They could also be interim lift until the 787s come, as well.  Wink
 
Leskova
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 9):
Well the first two are dedicated Airbus operators. They'll sign on even if there isn't enough info.

The nonsense you get to read around here just keeps on surprising me...  Yeah sure

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14):
I thought the A330 order was part of the A380 compensation package not part of the A350 deal?

Seeing that the A330 order was worth quite a bit more than what they got as compensation, I tend to doubt that it was only part of one, but not the other - I'd guess that it's combined to both.

Nonetheless - right now, EK's/Clark's behavior does seem somewhat strange...
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Stitch
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:13 am

As to TAP and Finnair, if they found the original A350 good enough, then I see no reason why they would not feel the A350XWB is good enough, especially if they get it at the same or similar pricing. So while I agree that it is not a case of "whatever you build, Airbus, we'll buy", I expect both airlines believe the A350XWB will be no worse then the A350 and will instead be much better because, frankly, it has to be.
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14):
I thought the A330 order was part of the A380 compensation package not part of the A350 deal?

No body seems to know for sure, or for what amount.
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):

I'm going to take him at his word this time that he doesn't have information about the A350XWB. I suspect the definition is pretty vague still. Airbus still haven't gotten that SQ order signed.

I've heard him and EK's Chairman Flanigan quite often state on print and video that they don't have too much information about the A350.....I actually think there is some merit to these recent comments...

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):

Isnt this odd....Finnair, TAP Portugal and Aeroflot seem to have enough information about the A350 to reconfirm their orders for the type, but EK only has scant information concerning the A350? Something is not right here.

....see above... Smile
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ATCGOD
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):

Agreed on all counts: but even dedicated customers dont by airplanes with only ""scant" information available.

Well, I bet they would if them were compensated enough for their original orders. Airbus needed to save face and Finn and TAP found the compensation agreeable.
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 9):
Well the first two are dedicated Airbus operators

I thought that the Finnair A350/A340 order was their first order for airbus widebodys.
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:47 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
although to contradict myself they should have ordered some dreamliners ages ago as they'll have to wait years for them now.

EK has said they are interested in the 787-10. That plane won't EIS before 2013, and it might be 2014. EK has not lost any ground at all, as they would be launch customer and ordering 2 years ago wouldn't get them planes any sooner.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
I continue to believe that EK will order the 787-9 and 787-10, most likely by or at Paris.

And I continue to believe that 787 order will in no way deter EK from also ordering the A350XWB-900 and A350XWB-1000 - perhaps also by or at Paris.

I'd agree except for one detail. I think it will be only 787-10 and A35X-1000.
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astuteman
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
''We have quite a lot of information on the 787,'' he said.

I think the last line is a very telling line.

I should b***y well hope so! The 787 will fly this year.
The Industrial launch of the A350XWB was only 3 months ago, and it won't fly for 6 years.
Boeing should be able to give him the exact number of rivets by now...............

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Isnt this odd....Finnair, TAP Portugal and Aeroflot seem to have enough information about the A350 to reconfirm their orders for the type, but EK only has scant information concerning the A350?

I presume this is more to do with the fact that these airlines were already customers for the original version, and it was important for Airbus to clear the contractual decks...
(They may have been more incentivised to sign by the penalties in the contract as well..  Smile )

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 8):
For an airplane still 14+ months away from having the design frozen I don't know what good looking at what they have now...

Complete red herring this.
Summer 2008 is the final design freeze. By that time all the suppliers will be down-selected and on-contract. In order to get there, the design/specifications will progress through a number of milestones prior to this.
IIRC the specifications are due to be finalised this spring in order to allow supplier downselection to be competed.

Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
If EK was really interested in the 787 they would already have placed a big order

It may be more of a case that they're sitting on the fence.
An article in today's FI quotes Steve U-H as saying that both manufacturers are playing Russian roulette with their -10 versions.
He seems to imply that he sees it as fairly inevitable that GE will support the A350-1000 in the end (which will be good for that programme), but that any engines so developed will also be equally "good" for any prospective 787-10 developments.........

Tim Clark might not know as much about the "final" 787-10 as he thinks...  Smile

Regards
 
columba
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 27):
He seems to imply that he sees it as fairly inevitable that GE will support the A350-1000 in the end (which will be good for that programme), but that any engines so developed will also be equally "good" for any prospective 787-10 developments.........

The support of GE is inevitable if Airbus is hoping to sell one to AF.
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:29 am

I'm by no way an Aibus cheerleader. I like Boeing planes, hope to see Boeing dominate, but I do acknowledge that Airbus makes high quality, competitive aircraft as well.

EK right now operates the
A332, A343, 772, A345, 773.

In looking for a replacement, EK will probably be looking for a step up in capacity. The A358 can replace the A332, A343 and some of the 772s, the A359 can replace the bulk of 772s, the A3589LR can take over the 77L and A345, and the A358-10 can handle the 773ER routes. Thus, they would replace two families of a/c with one.

If they opt for the Boeing 787, the -9 AFAIK is not bigger than the A332, 343 and 772, the A345 won't have a direct replacemebt, and the -10X won't match the 773ER in terms of MTOW or capacity.

I think that once Airbus provides more info, the A350XWB should win this one; however, anything can happen, and I'm still hoping for a Boeing order!!

Totally Tropical
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NYC777
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 27):
I should b***y well hope so! The 787 will fly this year.

Heh, heh! He's probably talking about the 787-10.
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columba
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
EK right now operates the
A332, A343, 772, A345, 773.

In looking for a replacement, EK will probably be looking for a step up in capacity. The A358 can replace the A332, A343 and some of the 772s, the A359 can replace the bulk of 772s, the A3589LR can take over the 77L and A345, and the A358-10 can handle the 773ER routes. Thus, they would replace two families of a/c with one.

If they opt for the Boeing 787, the -9 AFAIK is not bigger than the A332, 343 and 772, the A345 won't have a direct replacemebt, and the -10X won't match the 773ER in terms of MTOW or capacity.

This is exactly what I am thinking !!!
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
Thus, they would replace two families of a/c with one.

But will the A350 cover such a broad market effeciently, thats they key question.
 
astuteman
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 30):
Quoting Astuteman (Reply 27):
I should b***y well hope so! The 787 will fly this year.

Heh, heh! He's probably talking about the 787-10.

See my earlier comment  Wink

Regards
 
EI321
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
Thus, they would replace two families of a/c with one.

But will the A350 cover such a broad market effeciently, thats they key question.

Both the A350 & 787 are being manufactured in three sizes, but the 787-10 will have the same MTOW as the 787-9 from where I stand.

Does anybody remember the Airbus marketing phrase along the lines of 'Whatever your size, we have it'', is it still used?

[Edited 2007-03-26 18:54:40]
 
zvezda
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
A few years ago Boeing wasn't even thinking about the -10 version

In 2004, Boeing extended the 787's wingspan for the purpose of better accommodating the -10. At that time, I don't believe there was serious consideration of a possible 787-11.
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 34):

Both the A350 & 787 are being manufactured in three sizes, but the 787-10 will have the same MTOW as the 787-9 from where I stand.

I do understand that.....the A350 program extends to the 773/A346 market, the 787 program does not.
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 34):

Both the A350 & 787 are being manufactured in three sizes, but the 787-10 will have the same MTOW as the 787-9 from where I stand.

I do understand that.....the A350 program extends to the 773/A346 market, the 787 program does not.


Well the the 787-9, and certainly the 787-10 does eat into the 777/A340 market.
 
dutchjet
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 37):


Well the the 787-9, and certainly the 787-10 does eat into the 777/A340 market.

Please read what I said......

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
I do understand that.....the A350 program extends to the 773/A346 market, the 787 program does not.

I said the 773/A346 market.
 
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Stitch
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
In looking for a replacement, EK will probably be looking for a step up in capacity. The A358 can replace the A332, A343 and some of the 772s, the A359 can replace the bulk of 772s, the A3589LR can take over the 77L and A345, and the A358-10 can handle the 773ER routes. Thus, they would replace two families of a/c with one.

If they opt for the Boeing 787, the -9 AFAIK is not bigger than the A332, 343 and 772, the A345 won't have a direct replacemebt, and the -10X won't match the 773ER in terms of MTOW or capacity.

The 787-8 better matches the A332 in capacity then the A358XWB does and is lighter to boot.

The 787-9 is essentially dead-equal to the A333 and A343 (they are within 1m in length) while the A359XWB is larger (and heavier).

The 787-10 is larger then both the 772ER and the A359XWB yet will be lighter then the former and should be lighter then the latter.

I do not believe EK is using the A345 for it's range but instead for it's ability to lift and haul those fancy First Suites and Business Seats better then an A343 could. As such, a 787-9 should be plenty fine to do it thanks to much lower OEW.

The A350XWB-1000 is smaller then both the A346 and the 773ER. A 787-11 would be larger then the A346 and A3510XWB and very close to the 773ER, while being lighter then all of them.

So I don't believe the 787 is that poor a match for EK.  Smile
 
ikramerica
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
But will the A350 cover such a broad market effeciently, thats they key question.

Actually, the more important question is why people think EK needs to replace all those jets with one family to begin with.

They currently do quite well with various versions from 2 families. With such a large fleet, I see this trend continuing. So if the future of that market is the 787-10 and the A350X, then they will surely buy both unless one proves to be inferior...
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2H4
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:39 am




Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Tim Clark, President of Emirates, the largest Arab airline, will visit Airbus SAS in France next week before deciding whether to order as many as 100 Airbus' A350 or Boeing Co.'s 787.

In other news, French drug stores are predicting record sales of antacid tablets this week and next....  biggrin 


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
NYC777
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 41):
In other news, French drug stores are predicting record sales of antacid tablets this week and next....

All in the Toulouse area, right?  rotfl 
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SkyyMaster
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:53 am

How do you inspect an airplane that is still a concept at this stage?

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 3):
Really, how much media-attention does the man and his airline need...

I think the mantra at Boeing and Airbus is, "If you build it, EK will come". Seriously, what's going to happen if there's a major middle east war or another industry downturn? Emirates is going to be sitting on a LOT of airplanes with potentially no customers to fill them. Some industry analysts have already said there is a glut of capacity in the region. With EK buying virtually every widebody produced, it isn't exactly helping. They may someday find themselves with a bunch of a/c parked at that nice big new airport Dubai is building.
 
astuteman
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 43):
How do you inspect an airplane that is still a concept at this stage?

How do you think an aircraft gets from concept to production?.................

Regards
 
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
The 787-9 is essentially dead-equal to the A333 and A343 (they are within 1m in length) while the A359XWB is larger (and heavier).

The cabin length difference is ~1.6m, so the difference is closer to two Y seat rows, or 16 8Y seats, assuming the space is equally usable. Which isn't surprising as the plane fits in between the A332 and A333.

[Edited 2007-03-26 20:28:59]
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Glareskin
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
If EK was really interested in the 787 they would already have placed a big order.Delivery slots for the 787 are rare and with airlines like BA, AA, DL, LH and others that will order the 787 or A350 soon delivery slots for 100 aircraft will be hard to get. Clark also knows that Airbus is in a weak position right now and the compensation for the A380 delay is still open. Airbus can not afford to loose such a big customer to Boeing and therefore is willing to make a good price for EK together with the A380 compensation Airbus can offer them a very sweet deal.
I also believe that the A350-800, 900 and A350-1000 are much closer to what EK is looking for as the 787-10 is.

I agree with you that it seems unlikely that they want (just) the 787. This action must indicate some real interest in the A350. In fact, I think Airbus had EK in mind when they changed the design to XWB. Somehow the larger A350 does seem to be a better fit for Asian long-haul-hub airliners like EK, SQ etcetera whereas the 787 must be the better for p-to-p airlines like AA and DL. Therefore plus the fact that DL and AA are non-airbus airlines (at least AA will be when the depreciated the A300's) I think these will definitely go for the dreamliner. BA and LH I'd say a mix for both.
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Stitch
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 45):
The cabin length difference is ~1.6m, so the difference is closer to two Y seat rows, or 16 8Y seats, assuming the space is equally usable.

Boeing shows 63m for the length of the 787 and Airbus shows 63.6m for the length of the A330/A340. Also, the 787 does not taper quite as significantly in the back so you lose less seats in the final rows on the 787 then the A330/A340.
 
zvezda
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 47):
Boeing shows 63m for the length of the 787 and Airbus shows 63.6m for the length of the A330/A340. Also, the 787 does not taper quite as significantly in the back so you lose less seats in the final rows on the 787 then the A330/A340.

The 787-9 has a cabin length of 48.37m. The A330-300 and A340-300 have a cabin length of 50.35m.
 
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Stitch
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RE: EK President To Inspect Airbus A350 Next Week

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 48):
The 787-9 has a cabin length of 48.37m. The A330-300 and A340-300 have a cabin length of 50.35m.

Point taken.  Smile

Still, I imagine the ability to throw an extra seat in per row in Y (and possibly even in F/C/J) should take care of it.