deaphen
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:57 am

Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:06 am

Hi after the new 9W's livery, which came out straight from Seattle a day or so ago in full colurs (new colours i must add), i was wondering, the painting Boeing does, does it pay for it itself or does the airline pay for it? Is it a considerable amount? And last of all, does Boeing or Airbus offer free painting as an incentive to an airline for purchasing their aircraft?

nitin
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
DALCE
Posts: 1615
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:27 am

I would say that a paintjob is included in the price
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5810
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting DALCE (Reply 1):
I would say that a paintjob is included in the price

I would imagine so, unless the customer wants really weird or one-off liveries, in which case I would expect a surcharge.

Of course, then there are the various aircraft that have left Seattle with Dreamliner liveries. I would guess that Boeing has stated that they'd repaint it for free in time.

[Edited 2007-03-26 21:01:54]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3096
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:56 am

The customer pays for it of course. It may be in the price, or it may be quoted separately, but at the end of the day as they say "theres nowt for nowt"
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
"theres nowt for nowt"

Or as American Economics teachers/proffessors profess "There's no such thing as a free lunch"

The airline pays for it somehow.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
vv701
Posts: 5783
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
I would imagine so, unless the customer wants really weird or one-off liveries, in which case I would expect a surcharge.

 checkmark 

Many of the 'special' liveries are 'invented' long after the aircraft is ordered. And I cannot really imagine Boeing or Airbus saying 'Great. Much prefer this multi-colour one off colour scheme to your normal Euro-white livery. And of course we will do it for no extra charge even though it contains more than a dozen colours.'
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am

The first factory paint job is included in the original price of the aircraft with very exact drawings (blueprints) made to insure all the operators aircraft are the same. Should the buyer make changes to the livery for later delivery aircraft the charge for the changes would have to be re-negotiated.
 
iwok
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:35 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting Deaphen (Thread starter):
Hi after the new 9W's livery, which came out straight from Seattle a day or so ago in full colurs (new colours i must add), i was wondering, the painting Boeing does, does it pay for it itself or does the airline pay for it?

Pax do.... or in the case of UA: bilked investors  Wow!

filler

iwok
 
kl5147
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
The first factory paint job is included in the original price of the aircraft with very exact drawings

KLM had their MD-11's delivered during the 1990's in primer colors, and had the paint-job done in their AMS facilities. So did they get them 'cheaper' then other customers?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Guido Latz

"The world is just a click away!"
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:59 am

Oh no. Usually, airlines cannot afford to pay the paintjob. Do you have an idea about the price of an airliner even without paintjob???!!! The paintjob is paid separately by the Salvation Army. That’s why you see them at supermarket, malls and so on. Didn’t you notice that they wear old uniforms? As an alternative, the airlines do Pop songs for example “Do they know its paintjob time” and use the money to pay the paint at the local building centre in Seattle.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:26 am

Quoting KL5147 (Reply 8):
So did they get them 'cheaper' then other customers?

Well, the Dutch do have a certain reputation for, umm, shall we say being somewhat frugal....!!  Wink

What about AA a/c though? They still must be laquered or something. Does that cost a lot less?
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
deaphen
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:57 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 9):
Oh no. Usually, airlines cannot afford to pay the paintjob. Do you have an idea about the price of an airliner even without paintjob???!!! The paintjob is paid separately by the Salvation Army. That’s why you see them at supermarket, malls and so on. Didn’t you notice that they wear old uniforms? As an alternative, the airlines do Pop songs for example “Do they know its paintjob time” and use the money to pay the paint at the local building centre in Seattle.

really?? wow i never knew tht... Actually i did notice all airline f/a's wear old tattered uniforms, and i love Take Thats song "Paint.... my love". Never knew it was about a plane.... do u know which airline they work for?
lol
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
MCIGuy
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 10):
What about AA a/c though? They still must be laquered or something. Does that cost a lot less?

I'd be interested in knowing this as well. I always assumed they were just literally buffed aluminum. If so, I couldn't imagine the RWB stripe and tail paint costing that much.  

PS> All bets are off when AA orders the 787 though, 787's must be painted.  Wink

[Edited 2007-03-27 22:12:23]
Airliners.net Moderator Team
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 11):

You cant be serious....  sarcastic 
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:57 am

Ordering a plane is no different than a car. Does GM charge you extra to sell you a painted car, or does it come already painted for that price?
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
jetstar
Posts: 1371
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting KL5147 (Reply 8):
KLM had their MD-11's delivered during the 1990's in primer colors, and had the paint-job done in their AMS facilities. So did they get them 'cheaper' then other customers?

In the latter years of McDonnell Douglas production, the California EPA, to reduce pollution and improve air quality put a limit on the amount of airplanes than could be painted in house at Long Beach. MD had to fly some airplanes in their green primer out of state to be painted and then would return back to Long Beach for final completion and inspections before being turned over to the customer.

In this case with KLM’s MD-11’s, I would assume that KLM got a reduction on the price and had their own paint shop paint the airplanes and MD did not have to bother ferrying the airplane and pay another shop to paint the airplane.
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
All bets are off when AA orders the 787 though, 787's must be painted.

Watch them try to get them clad with aluminum sheeting.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting KL5147 (Reply 8):
KLM had their MD-11's delivered during the 1990's in primer colors, and had the paint-job done in their AMS facilities. So did they get them 'cheaper' then other customers?

See that M on the rudder, painted by Douglas exactly where the paint (livery) blueprint said it should be. While KLM may have got a price break for taking their MD-11's unpainted they paid to have the paint (livery) blueprint created when they ordered the MD-11.
 
a380us
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 14):
Ordering a plane is no different than a car. Does GM charge you extra to sell you a painted car, or does it come already painted for that price?

the problem is first when was the last time you decided to buy a car and they offered you a first class ticket to see the new in class cars
also when was the last time you paid i dont know 1,000,000 (is that it?) to paint your car?
www.JandACosmetics.com
 
chuchoteur
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:17 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
PS> All bets are off when AA orders the 787 though, 787's must be painted.

weeeeeeeell...

technically, you could ask for it to be non-painted I guess!
you'd still get some lacquer on top, or maybe you could go with the natural carbon look.

actually, a composite "natural look" aircraft could probably look quite trendy and high tech (don't forget some nice shiny drilled aluminium rudder pedals lol)

at least, you'd not have any issues with corrosion
 
spencer
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:30 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 10):
What about AA a/c though? They still must be laquered or something. Does that cost a lot less?

The operating costs of AAL's a/c are considerably less than a painted counterpart, especially when you take into consideration the weight drop. Having said that there is a higher cost involved when polishing and washing is involved. AAL a/c are in fact highly "buffed" to that showroom shine they are famous for; and to great effect. Another good thing with polishing is that you don't release any VOCs into the atmosphere, on application, which has been the case with most paints.

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 14):
Does GM charge you extra to sell you a painted car, or does it come already painted for that price?

Actually, if GM don't do this I'd be very shocked! Most, if not all European car manufacturers do it, especially with the metallics. (Thinking of going for the pearl or Harlequin paint job - Better get your wallet out!). Basically, metallic paint is not included in the car's price; it's an added extra.
Spencer, ex painter.
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
chuchoteur
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:17 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Spencer (Reply 20):
Another good thing with polishing is that you don't release any VOCs into the atmosphere, on application, which has been the case with most paints.

... it is also chromate-free
(LOL)

I do believe AA aircraft have a coat of varnish to prevent oxydisation though.
It is still lighter than 2-3 layers of paint.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Spencer (Reply 20):

Of corse paint costs more. But they wont SELL you an UNPAINTED car. The point he was trying to make was that when you order your car you pay for the paint you want.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:40 am

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 15):
In the latter years of McDonnell Douglas production, the California EPA, to reduce pollution and improve air quality put a limit on the amount of airplanes than could be painted in house at Long Beach.

Kind of off topic, but is this the same reason UA stopped painting airplanes at SFO (before they got cheap and outsourced it all)?
 
jetstar
Posts: 1371
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 23):
Kind of off topic, but is this the same reason UA stopped painting airplanes at SFO (before they got cheap and outsourced it all)?

It could be.

California has the strictest emissions standards of all the states. The state could have required UA to lower their emissions from the paint shop and UA found it cheaper just to fly the airplanes out of state then put up with the state regulations.

One time we had our JetStar at a repair shop in VNY for a fuel boost pump change. The owner of the repair shop told me that every time he saw the state EPA or whatever they were called drive up on the ramp he would get nervous because at the slightest sign of any violation they would fine the hell out of him. That is how strict California is and this was in 1981 and I would imagine it is even worse now.