ZakHH
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Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:55 pm

Some 2 weeks ago, Russian aviation authorities threatened to ban several European airlines for "safety violations" like "dangerous maneuvers" or flying over restricted areas.

Now Russian newspaper "Kommersant" says to have received a list with 16 airlines in question. This is said to include British Airways, Iberia and Germanwings.

BA is said to have violated Russian airspace when trying to avoid a zone of bad weather. IB is accused of having caused an incident of getting dangerously close to another aircraft due to flying on a wrong level.

In total, Russian authorities accuse the 16 airlines to have caused 18 safety violations and 5 flights over restricted areas from June 2006 to February 2007.

Can't help but that does not sound that much to me.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:59 pm

All I can say is reciprocity... If they claim that crap, lets ban Aeroflot and Pulkovo, too...
 
rongotai
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:53 pm

The trouble with reciprocity is that all the power lies with Russia. Consider the number of airlines that overfly Russia on Europe to East Asia routes.
 
Thorben
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:59 pm

Oh yes, the Russian bureaucracy at its best.

What have we done to cause this? Has Pulkovo been banned by the EU? Or the "airlines" of Gasprom and Rosneft?
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
CXfirst
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:00 pm

If BA does get banned, will they be able to overfly Russia on Eastern Asian routes. If not, that will be a huge blow to BA

-CXfirst
 
hotelmode
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:31 pm

Theres ways round russia if they're playing games (adds about 90 mins to HKG maybe 2 1/2 hrs to NRT), Aeroflop etc will struggle to go anywhere worthwhile if banned from the EU.
 
EI321
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting ZakHH (Thread starter):
Some 2 weeks ago, Russian aviation authorities threatened to ban several European airlines for "safety violations" like "dangerous maneuvers" or flying over restricted areas.

This is just ludicrous bureaucracy! How many Russian airlines are they threatening to ban from flying? We all know what the safety & maintenance records of some of the smaller Russian airlines is like!
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:17 pm

hold on everyone...this is just a newspaper article, nothing official has been done yet, so everyone calm down, this kind of "threat" always happens, it's sabre rattling...

Russia makes a lot of money from the 1st freedom so highly doubt that they will block out those airlines, because the effects afterwards would be hell for everyone....

usually if you violate a safety zone or procedure your airline gets it, not the entire industry, so as i said, just chill  Smile
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
pictues
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:11 pm

well look how fast russia backed down when canada reciprocated Air Canada's ban on using russian airspace, Aeroflot had to fy around canada to get to the west coast of the USA costing millions, soon after the ban on aeroflot from canadian airspace russia backed down and allowed ac access at fair prices
 
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OA260
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:30 pm

Yeah I doubt this will happen.It would become a MAJOR diplomatic dispute between Russia and the EU and would serve no ones interest. Russia just likes to play games as posted above. Russia has more to loose and there are a few neighbours around Russia who would love to see SU banned.
 
CXfirst
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 5):
90 mins to HKG maybe 2 1/2 hrs to NRT

However, if only BA and a few other airlines get banned from Russian airspace, then they will have a difficult time competing with the likes of JL, NH, CX, etc. as they will get that route done in 90 minutes less (HKG) and 210 minutes less (NRT) according to your estimations.

-CXfirst
 
NYC777
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
Yeah I doubt this will happen.It would become a MAJOR diplomatic dispute between Russia and the EU and would serve no ones interest. Russia just likes to play games as posted above. Russia has more to loose and there are a few neighbours around Russia who would love to see SU banned.

Yeah and then they might cancel the A350 contract and go with the 787!  Big grin  Wink
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
rammstein
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:56 pm

This:

Russian aviation authorities threatened to ban several European airlines for "safety violations" like "dangerous maneuvers" or flying over restricted areas.

and this:

Quote: Jurnalo
Russia is likely to widen a long-running row over a ban on Polish meat imports by extending the trade embargo to foodstuffs from other European Union states

Does someone notice a common pattern?  scratchchin 
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
khobar
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:06 pm

If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action? There's a familiar ring to this...
 
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OA260
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:18 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 11):
Yeah and then they might cancel the A350 contract and go with the 787!

I doubt it , they could always build a copy of the TU-350XWB ........lol

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 12):
Russia is likely to widen a long-running row over a ban on Polish meat imports by extending the trade embargo to foodstuffs from other European Union states

We could ban Russian Vodka but I guess we would be the loosers there if we did.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 13):
If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action? There's a familiar ring to this...

But SU's fleet is better maintained than PIA's!!!
 
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yowza
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:20 pm

A friend of mine who works in ATC says he often has to deal with Russian pilots who don't speak any lanaguage except Russian to any degree of understandability. That would strike me as being far more dangerous than a small incursion into restricted space to avoid bad weather. Let's see what comes of this.

YOWza
 
rammstein
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 15):
A friend of mine who works in ATC says he often has to deal with Russian pilots who don't speak any lanaguage except Russian to any degree of understandability.

Do they have to use light gun signals to communicate? Big grin
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting Khobar (Reply 13):
If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action? There's a familiar ring to this...

Airlines are banned because of safety reasons, not because of fleet age. Iran Air regularly flies its 747-100 to Europe, so does UPS.

The only planes banned are those which gave safety concerns or noise issues. A ban without reasons would never survive a court ruling in Europe.
 
hotelmode
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 10):
However, if only BA and a few other airlines get banned from Russian airspace, then they will have a difficult time competing with the likes of JL, NH, CX, etc. as they will get that route done in 90 minutes less (HKG) and 210 minutes less (NRT) according to your estimations.

Having checked the charts, HKG could be operated avoiding Russian airspace via Ukraine, Georgia and the Central Asian republics. probably no more than 30 mins extra (which is how much faster a 747 is over a 777/330 anyway which no pax ever notice) NRT is an issue but JAL/BA are now partners so codesharing is no issue.

As I said its much much more of a problem for an airline who gets most its international revenue from the EU or by overflying it on its way elsewhere.
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:41 am

Can't believe some of you take this sort of crap for real.

About as credible as LH announcing 5 daily nonstop A380s to the moon starting tomorrow.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
USADreamliner
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:21 am

Ha,ha ha!!
Russian aviation banning international carriers for safety violation.
Now that's hilarious... how hypocrites !
 
dz09
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 17):
Quoting Khobar (Reply 13):
If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action? There's a familiar ring to this...


Airlines are banned because of safety reasons, not because of fleet age. Iran Air regularly flies its 747-100 to Europe, so does UPS.

The only planes banned are those which gave safety concerns or noise issues. A ban without reasons would never survive a court ruling in Europe.

What makes you think the Russians don't have legitimate reasons for their actions. You mean to tell me that western countries can do no wrong.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 13):
If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action?

Well the MAJOR difference is that the EU ban is also effective intra-EU, whereas Russia potential ban on BA or IB smells with double standards and hypocrisy considering the junk that is still used by Russian airlines. If they want to be taken seriously with their "concerns" then they should clean up their own mess when it comes to safety standards (or rather complete lack thereof) first.
Of course I don't think you actually believe the issue in question is aviation safety (or food quality)?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):
We could ban Russian Vodka but I guess we would be the loosers there if we did.

There's plenty of finest Danish, Polish, Swedish or Finnish brands
 
RJ100
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:34 am

The EU threatens every single Russian operator for things like missing handbooks of the Tupolev-154 in English (even though a Russian handbook exists for a Russian plane flown by Russian pilots).

Why should Russia not be allowed to speak up when airlines like Germanwings or Iberia almost crash their aircraft into each other in Russian airspace (with a possible damage to the people living there)?

Think about it before you start a "let's bash Russia" again...
none
 
dz09
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
There's plenty of finest Danish, Polish, Swedish or Finnish brands

You're forgetting the best tasting vodka out there, the french Grey Goose.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting ZakHH (Thread starter):
BA is said to have violated Russian airspace when trying to avoid a zone of bad weather. IB is accused of having caused an incident of getting dangerously close to another aircraft due to flying on a wrong level.

Sounds like Russian ATC may have helped cause these "violations' to some degree; they're not world renowned for being top of their game now are they?!

BA incident - so Russian ATC deliberately guided the craft into a zone of bad weather.
IB incident - Russian ATC speaking English with heavy Slavic accent; Spanish flight crew with Latin accent.

MH
come visit the south pacific
 
SKY1
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
All I can say is reciprocity... If they claim that crap, lets ban Aeroflot and Pulkovo, too...

 checkmark 

If IB is banned to fly Russia, then SU will ban to fly Spain for sure.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
If they want to be taken seriously with their "concerns" then they should clean up their own mess when it comes to safety standards

I agree.

Russia has a sad record of air crashes due to a poor safety; definitely they can't try to give lessons to others ...they can't afford such luxuries.

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 23):
Why should Russia not be allowed to speak up when airlines like Germanwings or Iberia

It seems starting with a threaten to BA, IB and 4U for baning ops in Russia. I don't see the "speak" verb in nowhere  Yeah sure
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 23):
The EU threatens every single Russian operator for things like missing handbooks of the Tupolev-154 in English (even though a Russian handbook exists for a Russian plane flown by Russian pilots).

Why should Russia not be allowed to speak up when airlines like Germanwings or Iberia almost crash their aircraft into each other in Russian airspace (with a possible damage to the people living there)?

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As some people have said, everyone needs to majorly CALM DOWN. It won't happen. Russia is just speaking up equally like the EU has spoken up in the past. Again we see a major Russian accusal on part of a.net members. Frankly, lately this has been getting way out of hand.

Europe has spoken up on many occasions about equally dumb things regarding Russian airlines, so Russia is fighting back. Nothing bad done. As for the ban, it WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

I'm really amazed, some of you need to wake up and smell the damn coffee.

Aeroflot777
 
ual777
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 23):



Quoting RJ100 (Reply 23):
The EU threatens every single Russian operator for things like missing handbooks of the Tupolev-154 in English (even though a Russian handbook exists for a Russian plane flown by Russian pilots).

Why should Russia not be allowed to speak up when airlines like Germanwings or Iberia almost crash their aircraft into each other in Russian airspace (with a possible damage to the people living there)?

Think about it before you start a "let's bash Russia" again...

You are right. My dad flies for UA and recently in his words had his airplane inspected by the French version of the FAA, and they in his words "descended on the plane like locusts". Long story short, they were on the plane for 45 minutes and even made the crew unscrew the registration certificate from the cockpit door to see the back of it to make sure it was real!!!
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 26):
Russia has a sad record of air crashes due to a poor safety; definitely they can't try to give lessons to others ...they can't afford such luxuries.

Poor safety?! Mhm... what an uneducated comment. For the amount of flights and conditions that the planes were flown in, I want to see the Western counterparts do better.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 26):
It seems starting with a threaten to BA, IB and 4U for baning ops in Russia. I don't see the "speak" verb in nowhere

And when the EU accuses Russian handbooks not being written in English, thats "speaking" up? WTF does the EU need handbooks of TU-154 if they don't operate any. It's a political war, and yet some of you are too shallow to understand that.

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 21):
What makes you think the Russians don't have legitimate reasons for their actions. You mean to tell me that western countries can do no wrong.

What makes them think that... is complete brainless reasoning. As I've said in the past, people just like the hype, everyone else is bashing so why don't we start. And there have been like 20+ topics on A.net in the past week that refer to Russian aviation as inferior and horribly unsafe and all that.

No one realizes how many more flights the TUs and the ILs have flown over their western counterparts. While the Buses and Boeings were landing on paved runways and normal airports, Russian planes were landing in crop fields and flying in the deep forests. Yet overall they are going just as strong. Russian aviation is a powerful thing, military proves it as well. But as I've said before, it doesn't really matter, I for one am happy they aren't flying anything Russian, they are missing out, that's it. And while half of the Western world realizes the might of the Russian aviation industry and is trying their best to get on one of the planes before they leave commercial service, the other side just sits and bashes just cause they have absolutely nothing better to do.

Aeroflot777

[Edited 2007-03-27 20:24:19]
 
OV735
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:22 am

Some of you are taking this wayyy too seriously. This is a Russian news report, which already should tell a thing about its credibility. Secondly, even if it is based on some bits of reality, it's very probable that they are quoting yet another ordinary xenophobic small official who would be happy to ban the whole Western Hemisphere, if it was up to him.

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 19):
About as credible as LH announcing 5 daily nonstop A380s to the moon starting tomorrow.

And that has to be the single best comparison ever made  bigthumbsup 

Cheers,
OV735
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 23):
Why should Russia not be allowed to speak up when airlines like Germanwings or Iberia almost crash their aircraft into each other in Russian airspace (with a possible damage to the people living there)?

What about an Aeroflot Tu-154 making 2 or 3 attempts to land on a taxiway at BCN despite the fact that other aircraft were using the taxiway? Forgot to mention...that happened with good visibility and during daytime. The ATC repeatedly told the SU captain to go around until he finally "found" the right runway.

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 23):
Think about it before you start a "let's bash Russia" again...

In my case this is not a Russia bashing, but the fact is that IB is ages ahead of any Russian carrier in terms of safety.

[Edited 2007-03-27 20:34:46]
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
tommybp251b
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 4):
If BA does get banned, will they be able to overfly Russia on Eastern Asian routes. If not, that will be a huge blow to BA

We will have WW 3 then! Or the second cold war.

What did 4U do in order to stand on the list?
Tom from Cologne
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 32):

What did 4U do in order to stand on the list?

Don't even worry, probably nothing serious, whatever it was just gives a reason for Russia to fight back for the sh*t they were given all along by the EU. So it will all get resolved without problems whatsoever.

Aeroflot777

P.S. If the EU really thought that the TU-154s were unsafe and had a "horrible" safety record, the planes wouldn't be allowed to fly to many countries in European as they do now. The planes are passing inspection with no problem.
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting OV735 (Reply 30):
Some of you are taking this wayyy too seriously. This is a Russian news report, which already should tell a thing about its credibility. Secondly, even if it is based on some bits of reality, it's very probable that they are quoting yet another ordinary xenophobic small official who would be happy to ban the whole Western Hemisphere, if it was up to him.

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 19):
About as credible as LH announcing 5 daily nonstop A380s to the moon starting tomorrow.

And that has to be the single best comparison ever made

To add to my previous reply, I completely agree with this. Big grin
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
SKY1
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 29):
And when the EU accuses Russian handbooks not being written in English, thats "speaking" up?

Anyway, a thing is "accuse".

Another one different is a threaten to ban operations in Russia. If it finally happen, reciprocity must be used.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:48 am

Why don't some people on this board calm down? We do not know all the facts to the case and its seems prejudicial to comment on the intent of the Russian authorities based on stereotypes? Remember the Bashkirian Airlines mid-air collision over Switzerland ... and remember how most EU members on this board said it MUST have been the Russians at fault ...

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
AirEMS
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:17 am

Watch out what you say you could end up like some spies and journalists from Russia have!


Do any US Airlines fly to Russia?

-Carl
If Your Dying Were Flying
 
RJ100
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 31):
What about an Aeroflot Tu-154 making 2 or 3 attempts to land on a taxiway at BCN despite the fact that other aircraft were using the taxiway? Forgot to mention...that happened with good visibility and during daytime. The ATC repeatedly told the SU captain to go around until he finally "found" the right runway.

I never said Russian airlines are perfect...but the rest of the world isn't either. I talked about the fact that the EU is pushing things into ridiculousity, as I said threatening airlines for nothing...so people should now not start screaming when the Russians do the same. And as I said...near misses are not "minor incidents" either, especially over crowded areas such as Moscow.

I witnessed the departure of an UTAir TU-154 the other day in MUC, there were lots of cars with inspectors turning up all of a sudden giving them a real hard time, delaying the flight probably for nothing (the flight in the end departed which means everything was ok).

I'm also a bit astonished by people here believing Russian pilots don't speak English. I know Russians who have never left Russia but perfectly speak English without accent...cannot say the same thing about my fellow Western Europeans...

As a Swiss citizen I live in a country that had too many accidents in recent years...and then we come up with poor excuses such as blaming the Slovakian pilot "for not speaking English properly" or blame Bashkirian after playing cards in the ATC room...I must say I am astonished and also a little bit sick of this arrogant behaviour. I am glad the Russians now also show how we misbehave.
none
 
ZakHH
Topic Author
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:56 am

Calling Russian airlines and / or aircraft unsafe in general is certainly wrong and indeed hints a certain arrogance. Especially Russian aircraft are just fine - if they are well maintained, but that goes for every single plane in the world. The Tu154 is just as unsafe as the B737 with regard to the latest incidents in Indonesia.

There may be some CIS airlines (not SU though) who do not fully apply to international standards. Which is not surprising. They can be found everywhere in the world, and the CIS has a lot of airlines.

I'd agree that many Russians speak excellent English. Some better than native English speakers. But I would not be surprised if some ATC staff as well as some pilots may be a bit hard to understand - again, nothing that would be limited to Russia.

I can't judge if the steps that were taken against some Russian airlines are justified or not. However, reacting with accusations that smell a bit strange is not the best choice Russian authorities would have.

Anyway, I'd agree with Pilotaydin - there's certainly a lot of sabre rattling inclined, so this should not be taken too serious. And the last thing I intended was starting a "Russia bashing" thread. I have far too many ties to that country and culture to do that.

Basically, I was wondering about the figure of a total 18 violations of 16 airlines in 9 months. Leave all the background battling away - that number does not sound much to me. Or am I wrong? I mean, mistakes happen everywhere, and we're probably speaking of 18 mistakes (most of them probably not even major ones) in several thousand flights.

[Edited 2007-03-27 21:58:50]
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awthompson
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 29):
Poor safety?! Mhm... what an uneducated comment. For the amount of flights and conditions that the planes were flown in, I want to see the Western counterparts do better.

I guess that considering the spartan conditions in which Russian airlines have operated over the years, the sheer size of Russia and the vast number of planes that have been in service there, their safety record is not catastrophic.

I have high regard for Russian built planes. I don't think that maintenance was ever "bad", it's just that Russian airlines over the years have not had access to cash reserves that western airlines have had. Also considering the very low wages of Russian airline crews and other workers, particularly in the past, they should actually be commended.

I don't think however a country should be talking about banning airlines from entering their airspace based on single events. It would have to be based on track record over time. It is quite possible that BA, Iberia and German Wings crews have made errors, perhaps serious ones, but their safety cultures are among the best in the world if you look at the bigger picture. Again the western authorities would never consider banning foreign airlines on single events unless they were extremely hazardous, however bad track records in safety or multiple safety violations could result in serious restrictions. As already suggested, this is likely just some exaggerated media talk or at worst Russia putting out the message that it also has 'rights' in the aviation world. (We all know that western media prefers 'bad' news stories and scandal because greed to sell papers/magazines etc. comes before most other matters and ethics. Often not much space is given to good news stories which likely outnumber bad news events by at least 100 to 1. I am sure it is no different in Russia.)

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 27):
Again we see a major Russian accusal on part of a.net members. Frankly, lately this has been getting way out of hand.



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 29):
And there have been like 20+ topics on A.net in the past week that refer to Russian aviation as inferior and horribly unsafe and all that.

Perhaps on this site we are guilty of jumping to conclusions when Russian (and some other parts of the world) aviation is involved in any kind of incident. We should refrain from doing so for one reason at least that it is offensive to our good Russian friends who also enjoy this site.

Making informed remarks based on facts is however healthy and I would not refrain from doing that once the facts are made available.
 
flymd
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:26 am

I really don't see the Russian government banning these carriers. While inability to fly into or over Russia would definetly cause some issues for these airlines, I think Aeroflot and other Russian carriers being banned from the UK, Spain, Germany, etc... would leave them in a much worse position.
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schipholjfk
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:31 am

This is a sheer example of Russia gradually falling into a rogue nation state displaying "thuggish" behavior. It's simply a reflection of Putin mentality and using muscle to acquire whatever one can... Yukos to continuous repression of press to consolidation of power by the Kremlin. Nothing surprising!
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SKY1
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:50 am

I bet for the EU-Russia cooperation in many fields. But such cooperation is not possible if there is not a mutual trust, and when there is a threatened, trust is not possible.

Anyhow, I expect and I wish BA, IB, 4U and others European Union carriers can continue their operations and services to Russia with normality.

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 39):
Calling Russian airlines and / or aircraft unsafe in general is certainly wrong and indeed hints a certain arrogance

Say that Russia has had a sad record of air crashes is not untrue. It's a fact. Fortunately lately it seems safety is getting better  Smile
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 33):
whatever it was just gives a reason for Russia to fight back for the sh*t they were given all along by the EU



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 29):
It's a political war, and yet some of you are too shallow to understand that.

I think we understand that perfectly well. Threats from Kremlin, coming left right and middle have been almost a daily occurrence recently. Welcome back to the CCCP, I guess  Yeah sure

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 38):
poor excuses such as blaming the Slovakian pilot "for not speaking English properly"

I don't think it's a "poor excuse" if pilot is not able to perform one of the things that's ESSENTIAL for a commercial pilot, that is communicate with ATC in understandable ENGLISH? Feeling handicapped by not having English as a first language? Well tough luck, send him to a language school or have him fly a cropduster in Nitra instead.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 37):
Do any US Airlines fly to Russia?

Delta flies to SVO from both JFK and ATL, they are thriving on the flights. Very good routes for the airlines.

Quoting Awthompson (Reply 40):

Perhaps on this site we are guilty of jumping to conclusions when Russian (and some other parts of the world) aviation is involved in any kind of incident. We should refrain from doing so for one reason at least that it is offensive to our good Russian friends who also enjoy this site.

It's not like it's unfair to us. I for one, could care less if people don't fly on Russian airliners, it doesn't affect me in ANY way. But it's truly unfair to the Russian aviation industry as a whole, which produced great airplanes that continue to run as smoothly as ever when properly maintained. I'm in no way denying that some out of whack airlines don't do they maintenance right. But to make statements such as, "I'm never flying on a TU-154 because I think it's unsafe" is totally dumb and childish. I can swear to all of you that Aeroflot's TU-154s are just as safe as any A320 or any other 737 flying around the world.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 43):
Say that Russia has had a sad record of air crashes is not untrue. It's a fact. Fortunately lately it seems safety is getting better

Again.... Please do some research first... Do you know how many airlines Russia has? Way more than 100 if not double that. Now what about the average other country?! When taking into account all the airlines and the size of Russia and the amount of airplanes in use, the statistics straighten out. Yes, Russia has a considerable amount of crashes, but when putting them against mere numbers... you get the point.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 38):
I know Russians who have never left Russia but perfectly speak English without accent...cannot say the same thing about my fellow Western Europeans...

Fellow WESTERN Europeans??

BTW, how much foreign currency does Russia earn from other countries' airlines using its airspace, ATC and airports? Presumably it's (collectively) quite a good foreign export earner. You'd think that the state would invest in their earner so as to improve their dividend by attracting more users to the improved service.

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KevinSmith
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:31 am

I find it ironic that the Russians are complaining of safety violations.
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dallasnewark
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 46):
BTW, how much foreign currency does Russia earn from other countries' airlines using its airspace, ATC and airports? Presumably it's (collectively) quite a good foreign export earner. You'd think that the state would invest in their earner so as to improve their dividend by attracting more users to the improved service.

At this point, amount of foreign currency earned from allowing Russia to use its air space, is very minimal at best. As long as the oil and natural gas prices are high, the governmnet could care less about money earned from the use of airspace.
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...

Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 44):

I think we understand that perfectly well.

I know you do, but many unfortunately don't.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 44):
ESSENTIAL for a commercial pilot, that is communicate with ATC in understandable ENGLISH?

Well let's not blame it all on Russians ok? I study aviation and am currently taking a class about ATC. My professor was a Air Traffic Controller for 36 years. He always tells us stories about international airlines landing in the USA with poor language skills. He always refers to Air France, Iberia, Korean, and Olympic. Those as far as I'm concerned aren't Russian airlines. It happens everywhere, quit blaming Russians for everything on this planet.

Aeroflot777