nwa757boy
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NWA To Retire 747s?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:30 pm

Well I just had my interview with Northwest Airlines to be a Flight Attendant and was hired.  Smile Smile The hiring manager and I were talking about aircraft and what not, he said the DC9s would probably be around for another 13 years lol Smile yay. And that as the 787s come on line, he said the 747s, both 742s and 744s would be retired. He said they are great aircraft, but are worn and tired. I was wondering if anyone else has heard this and if the 787 is a real replacement for the 747?
 
na
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:37 pm

When the 787 comes into NWAs fleet, its remaining 742s are 24-30 years old, and more than half of its 744 fleet is nearing its 20th birthday. For sure some will be retired or sold at around that time, but that does not mean that the 787 will replace the 747s. It just will happen at the same time. I expect an 747-8I order within the next 2 years.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:47 pm

According to the latest fleet plan by NW, the 744's are not being retired. The 747-200's will be phased out of PAX service by end of September 2007, however, NW will still have 742's, just flying Cargo.
 
SEPilot
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting NWA757boy (Thread starter):
he said the DC9s would probably be around for another 13 years

They'll be around longer than that; they'll be used to ferry the snowballs from Hell.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
MaverickM11
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 2):
According to the latest fleet plan by NW, the 744's are not being retired.

I'm not sure about that...by 2011 I think either all 16 744s are being retired or 8 333 positions (reasonably sensible if you're getting a 787 a year later) are not being taken up and 8 744s (or other widebody, but what other widebody could you retire?) are being retired. The 742s are definitely being retired though.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:09 am

If and when NWA ever retires their 744's they'll need more uplift capacity for freight in the belly and passengers than the A330 / 787 can provide.

748i & 773ER come to mind...........
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
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bwest
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:11 am

...and congrats with your new job  Smile
I love my Airport Job! :)
 
nwa757boy
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Bwest (Reply 6):
...and congrats with your new job

hehe thanks, I'm pretty excited. Getting of the Erjs, at Expressjet, and getting on a dc9 woot
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):

-------------------

Quoting NWA757boy (Thread starter):
"he said the DC9s would probably be around for another 13 years"

-------------------
They'll be around longer than that; they'll be used to ferry the snowballs from Hell.

With winglets!!


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Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:26 am

First rule of thumb - don't believe that everything you hear from every employee is factual. Plus this industry changes so much, even whats true today may not be true next week. FA's & Pilots are the worst for spreading rumors, its in the job description, but regardless filter the information you hear with a healthy dose of skeptism.

While there may be some truth this person's statements, don't believe the timelines you hear. The "official" plan is as follows - based on actual fleet planning. Until an actual replacement is named, or substituted, its all hearsay. When I say forseeable future, we are talking in the next 3-5 years. Look where we were in 2000, you could't predict 5 years out even if you even tried.

742 (passenger) - removed of service in September 2007
742 (freight) - continue into forseeable future
DC9 - currently at ~115 frames, will be drawn down to 75 frames by 2008, that will continue on going forward until an additional replacement is named. They will not be around another 13 years. Up to 5 years, yes, beyond that anything is questionable
744 - continue into the forseeable future, 787 is not a direct full-out replacement. May reduce the need for as many frames at some point, but will not eliminate all 16. Still planning on 16 frames through 2010.
 
bhxdtw
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:57 am

Hey, just slightly off topic but where are the 742's based and what routes do they fly now ? are they all in the far east or do some do some internal US runs ? do you get any at AMS / MEM ?

Joe
 
SEPilot
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 8):
With winglets!!

Come to think of it, that picture does look like what Satan would fly.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
petertenthije
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 10):
Do you get any at AMS / MEM ?

Nowadays AMS only gets A330s. The summer season will introduce a few B752s.
Attamottamotta!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
Still planning on 16 frames through 2010.

In this article...
http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1060988.html
...which very well could be wrong, it states that the NW "transoceanic" fleet will go from 61 today to 74 in 2011. Either they're including 753s now, and NW is retiring its 744s by 2011 or they're including 742 Freighters now but not in 2011, or they're retiring a portion of the 744s and not taking some A330s? It doesn't make sense. Of course the article could be totally wrong.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
flydreamliner
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:29 am

Congrats on the new job!

While I don't see 787 replacing 744 all together, the NW 744s are in ugly shape, esp. in Y. The seats are total crap, IFE is weak... so unless they want to refurb the fleet (my guess is they don't) then I just don't see what they are going to do besides order new aircraft.

Having 747s is a real issue of pride for NW, I think, as well. I'm not sure I can see them ending that.

Plus, with GEnx 787s in the fleet, the 747-8 makes good sense.

Plus, 777-300ER is in high demand... hard to get slots and good prices on those. 747-8i on the other hand could be a bit more of a bargain.

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 8):
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3):

-------------------

Quoting NWA757boy (Thread starter):
"he said the DC9s would probably be around for another 13 years"

-------------------
They'll be around longer than that; they'll be used to ferry the snowballs from Hell.

With winglets!!


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Design © Bobby Catone
Template © Michael F. Mc laughlin


That's not funny. It's a real fear here in MSP that they honestly may never go away. Everyone here remembers hearing that the DC-9s are going to be replaced forever, but it never happens.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
na
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:05 am

How many DC-9s does NWA still have? They constantly retire them one after the other since a few years, and at least 3 have been written off in ground accidents over the last 24 months. At this pace they won´t have any left in 11 years.
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
Plus, with GEnx 787s in the fleet, the 747-8 makes good sense.

I believe that NWA ordered Rolls Royce engines for their 787's.
 
scouse
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:38 am

according to MSP update blog for Minneapolis airport the NWA fleet will change between now and 2011 by retiring the remaining 3 747-200 passenger planes. They will remove from service 5 of the 13 747-200F that they have. They will convert 4 of the 16 747-400 passenger planes to freighters. There are 18 A 319's and 33 DC-9 going to be removed from service and only 6 more A330 to arrive. With the 18 B787 and 72 RJ's added they will have a total of 602 planes.

http://www.mspupdate.com/blog/index.php?itemid=137
Love to fly
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 10):
Hey, just slightly off topic but where are the 742's based and what routes do they fly now ? are they all in the far east or do some do some internal US runs ? do you get any at AMS / MEM ?

NRT-SPN and NRT-GUM. We never see them in the States.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
nwa757boy
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting Scouse (Reply 17):
There are 18 A 319's and 33 DC-9 going to be removed from service and only 6 more A330 to arrive. With the 18 B787 and 72 RJ's added they will have a total of 602 planes.

So are the RJs replacing the 319s and DC9s?
 
gigneil
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
NRT-SPN and NRT-GUM. We never see them in the States.

Well, other than the fact that Guam is part of the United States.  Smile

Both of those routes will be going 333.

NS
 
scouse
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:04 am

The Star Tribune newspaper obtained fleet plan information distributed to Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) union members last week. The majority of fleet reductions will come from Airbus A319s and McDonnell Douglas DC-9s. These reductions will be replaced by new regional jets set to be delivered over the next two years.
This is what the blog said about replacing the 319's and the DC9's
Love to fly
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20):
Well, other than the fact that Guam is part of the United States.

Indeed, however it is not a State.

...and you thought you had me  Wink
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:13 am

Its not necessarily a direct replacement per say. The 36 CR9's & 36 EMB-175s replace some of the DC-9 capacity and some of the Avro capacity that was reduced last year, and to an extent, the A319's on the longer, thinner routes that are beyond the range of the CRJ's & DC-9's.

Thus NW will retiring ~30-35 DC-9's in the next two year, plus shedding some A319's. That A319 capacity in effect will be maintained by the remaining DC-9's, primarily the -50's which have a similar capacity without the high lease rate.
 
rdwelch
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:16 am

Quoting NWA757boy (Thread starter):
Well I just had my interview with Northwest Airlines to be a Flight Attendant and was hired.

Congrats and the best of luck!!!!!!

Gus
They say I have ADD, but they don't understand..Oh look! A chicken!
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:41 am

Hey man, a big old congratulations on the new job!!!! I hope it works out well for you. I sure hope the NW 744's don't go away soon, but if they do, I hope they're quickly replaced with a shiny new fleet of 748I's.
Good goes around!
 
JAM747
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
FA's & Pilots are the worst for spreading rumors

I believe you. An AA MD 80 captain once told me that AA MD80s were going to be replaced with Airbus. I was like ' yeah right'.
 Yeah sure
 
28L28L
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:19 pm

I always see a NW 747-200 in HNL around mid day. Anyone know where that goes? A spare perhaps? My best wishes in your new job as well.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:23 pm

One of the NRT-HNL flights is a 742, the other is a 744.

This summer NRT-HNL will go 744, 744, A330-300.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 25):
I sure hope the NW 744's don't go away soon

You clearly haven't flown in one. They aren't old in as much as they lack a compettive economy product. At least upgrade the cabins. Same goes for UA's Y in the 744s.
 
wjcandee
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:36 pm

The NW cargo 742s largely run from CONUS (ORD, MSP, LAX, ILN) and HNL to ANC to Far East. Freight to/from Asian destinations gets exchanged among aircraft at ANC. I don't recall all the details, but Ted Stevens championed a Federal law that provides some sort of exemption to something if inbound freighters stop and swap at ANC, so FedEx, UPS, NW and others do just that. (As do certain foreign-flag carriers as well, IIRC.)
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:46 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 29):
You clearly haven't flown in one. They aren't old in as much as they lack a compettive economy product. At least upgrade the cabins. Same goes for UA's Y in the 744s.

I haven't flown in them, but I have been in the cabin of one (my uncle flies the 744 at NW), and I agree they're terrible. I just mean from a spotter's perspective, I hope they don't go away.
Good goes around!
 
tpaewr
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:58 pm

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 26):
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
FA's & Pilots are the worst for spreading rumors

I believe you. An AA MD 80 captain once told me that AA MD80s were going to be replaced with Airbus. I was like ' yeah right'.

A CO captain told me when the 742s were retired that CO was looking at second hand (SR?) 743s to replace them, you hear all kinds of crazy things
 
N801NW
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:08 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
That A319 capacity in effect will be maintained by the remaining DC-9's

Could this be why MHT, usually an A319/320 city will be downgraded to 1x320, and 3x DC9-5 to DTW for the summer schedule? The Single 319 to MSP continues.
 
georgiaame
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:35 pm

I dunno. I flew NW LAX to SIN via NRT about 3 years ago, and I know, 3 years of constant wear and tear will do a job on any machine. But we were in 4 different 747 aircraft, the interiors were spotless, seats in Y comfortable, (leg room was no bargain, but the seats were comfortable), and the toilets were caulk free, functional, and well, spotless. In flight service was great. This after hearing a slew of NW horror stories. As I said, 3 years can be an eternity, an perhaps a hell of a lot has happened since. But I have only good memories of those 4 very long, very packed flights, and very comfortable flights. Considering that the flying climate has changed somewhat for the better today than when I bought those $250. rt tickets (tax included, no less), seems crazy to dump the jets.

So my uneducated guess is that they will go shortly after the infamous, and still apparently very functional and viable DC-9s. (And if the airline gods are smiling, to be replaced with 747-8Is).
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
jfk777
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:59 pm

Nw needs the 744 for passsenger service, A332 are not competitive to Asia. While the 787 will do wonders they will need a large capacity airplane, upgrading the 744 is essential.
 
na
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting Scouse (Reply 17):
according to MSP update blog for Minneapolis airport the NWA fleet will change between now and 2011 by retiring the remaining 3 747-200 passenger planes. They will remove from service 5 of the 13 747-200F that they have. They will convert 4 of the 16 747-400 passenger planes to freighters.

First time I hear that NWA is converting some of its 744s to freighters. As for the 742Fs, 4 or 5 (the original batch still in bare metal) have seen 30, 31 years of constant service now so its no wonder that retirement isn´t too far away now.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:53 pm

All this assumes NWA will survive bankruptcy.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting N801NW (Reply 33):
Could this be why MHT, usually an A319/320 city will be downgraded to 1x320, and 3x DC9-5 to DTW for the summer schedule? The Single 319 to MSP continues.

Going from an A319 to a DC-9-50 is not a downgrade. On a capacity basis, the A319 and DC-9-50 are identical with the A319 having 16F/109Y = 125 seats, and the DC-9-50 having 16F/108Y = 124 seats. The only difference is performance and range. Thus it makes more sense to utilize the -50's on the shorter 125 seat markets and give priority to use 319's in the longer range markets over 800 miles. Other considerations include runway lengths, weather, noise abatement, gate size, ground equipment, crew routing, aircraft availability, and landing fees.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 34):
But we were in 4 different 747 aircraft, the interiors were spotless, seats in Y comfortable, (leg room was no bargain, but the seats were comfortable), and the toilets were caulk free, functional, and well, spotless. In flight service was great. This after hearing a slew of NW horror stories.

I agree that the 744's are still in very good shape. Coach compares very similar to that on AA 767's, UA's 744's, UA's 767's, and DL's 767's. The primary complaint is that it doesn't have PTV's, which in fact causes a certain number of people on this board to automatically assume that the 744's are old, dirty, poorly maintained, and garbage, when in fact that is far from the truth. They have all been remodeled with the new World Business Class in the past 2-3 years to match the A330's.
 
nwab787techops
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 36):
First time I hear that NWA is converting some of its 744s to freighters.

That is somewhat true. They are looking at maybe converting converting the 747-400 to freighters, but the folks that have the STC to do the converting have too much business and it would take too much time till they can them in service as B747-400F. So, they looked at the A380 and didn't like it, now eyes are on the B748s or B777s." I haven't herd anything about retiring the B747-400s.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 37):
All this assumes NWA will survive bankruptcy.

NW is far beyond that point, its not even worth discussing. Planning to emerge in June.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 34):
In flight service was great. This after hearing a slew of NW horror stories.

Most of those horror stories come from NW domestic operations. A lot of people believe them to have some of the best international service of any U.S. carrier.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 35):
Nw needs the 744 for passsenger service, A332 are not competitive to Asia. While the 787 will do wonders they will need a large capacity airplane, upgrading the 744 is essential.

Agreed entirely. The smaller aircraft just can't do the trick on some of NW's routes.
Good goes around!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 38):
Thus it makes more sense to utilize the -50's on the shorter 125 seat markets and give priority to use 319's in the longer range markets over 800 miles.

The trouble is that they haven't been good about this in the past. DC-9s are going to take weight restrictions on routes like CLT-MSP and BNA-MSP on a regular basis in the summer, and yet they insist on scheduling -51s on those very routes.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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LTU932
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:47 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
Plus, with GEnx 787s in the fleet, the 747-8 makes good sense.

NW has ordered their 787s, to the surprise of everyone, with RR Trent engines. The other question is whether NW can even afford to buy the 747-8 in the future.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
744 - continue into the forseeable future, 787 is not a direct full-out replacement. May reduce the need for as many frames at some point, but will not eliminate all 16. Still planning on 16 frames through 2010.

Maybe, some will probably end up as freighters or be on the sale market.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 43):
The other question is whether NW can even afford to buy the 747-8 in the future.

Doesn't really matter whether NW has the money, it's the creditors and investors that put up the bulk of the money. I've heard the notion as B787techops said that part of the 744 fleet could be converted to freighters, as the we're retiing 3-4 742 freighters over the nevt 3 years, 2 are gone at the end of Q2 of next year. NWA is looking at the feasiblity of adding 744F's on a dry-lease to replace the retiring 742F's until a comprehensive plan is established for the NWCargo operation. The fleet is going to need an upgrade. I think we'll be seeing the 748F being ordered. I'm skeptical as whether the 748i will make it's way into the fleet. I think we have a better chance of seeing the 777 appearing in the fleet. This could all be moot if and when we merge with DL, which is all but going forward. I think DL/NW will be announced as we exit bankruptcy.
Made from jets!
 
af773atmsp
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:32 am

I like that the 748 is almost identical to the 744. NW could order the 773ER and 748 like they did when they ordered the E175 and CRJ-900 which would be very odd, but I think NW will only order the 748. If NW wants to replace the 744F's, I think the 748F and 777F (is Boeing making the 777F?) would be a good order.
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
gigneil
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RE: NWA To Retire 747s?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 45):
I like that the 748 is almost identical to the 744.

It isn't. Its a fair bit bigger.

NS