iahflyer
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HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:38 am

With the EU-US open sky system, will we see the end of the hub and spoke system?
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doug
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:47 am

Not in my life time well at least I do not see AA leaving MIA with a 2.5 billion dollar terminal that will be done after my life time.Just kidding (sort of) the hub and spoke will always be around to some degree.I can remember 7 or 8 years ago on this forum the same subject and we still have them today.
 
pacifica
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:01 pm

Regardless, there are always going to be those small towns across the world that can only support air service to one or two major cities. Simply put, without the hub and spoke system, how would people from these towns travel about? The entire system might not be the most efficient for connecting from ex. Chicago to New York to London, but it definitely is the only option for people travlling from ex. "Small Town USA" to New York to London.

Quite frankly I don't see the Hub and Spoke system dissappearing for a very long time, for this very reason. IMHO, it would leave too many people "hanging out to dry".
 
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Stitch
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:04 pm

Not a chance. While the 73GER could support very small O&D demand between two cities, there will often be more profit in funneling folks into a hub from a spoke and sending them on to more spokes.
 
BoomBoom
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:16 pm

No, there will always be a need for hubs. But planes like the 787 might eliminate one stop from a three stop trip. Instead of going point-hub-hub-point, you may be able to travel point-hub-point.

Open Skies will not end the hub system, but it's another nail in the coffin of the A380.  tombstone 
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FreequentFlier
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:20 pm

Many have heralded the end of the hub and spoke system, many have been wrong. Likewise, Open Skies will do nothing to change this. The hub and spoke system will only expand further. HOWEVER, the big difference we shall see is that markets with significant OD will see increased point to point service and you may see more focus city type operations (witness FL's recent weekend only MCO-SAN service which is almost entirely local). However, in the grand scheme of things, hub and spoke will only strength and be enhanced further by greater international hub and spoke presence between Alliance partners.
 
Danny
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:23 pm

The major misconception of this forum is putting point to point against hub and spoke as alternatives. With traffic tripling over next 20 year we will basically need both.

So far we hardly see any point to point flights over the Atlantic. Hub to hub and hub to point dominate.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:32 pm

The combination of open skies and alliances definitely cuts spokes out. Folks in cities like BDL and SEA, for example, can get to Europe non-stop on a US flag carrier (talking about NW here) and get pretty much anywhere in the world with only one stop, but only because of both liberal air traffic rights AND the NW-KL partnership. Both parts of this equation are necessary for the streamlining that liberalization will bring.

This is particularly true because, with the exception of Ireland and London, very little change will result from open skies. If US wanted to start flying WAW-PHL, for example, they could start that within a couple of months. And with respect to Ireland, there's not really sufficient O&D on the US end for a US carrier to start service other than to a hub. Might EI expand a little? Sure, but that's still service to their hub at DUB.

With respect to London, there are certainly possibilities in this country, but ask yourself who would really start new service. Most of the routes being tossed around, things like DEN-LHR, involve a carrier's hub. BA isn't going to start ORD-LGW service for sport, for example (and even so, LGW is a hub for them). I wouldn't look for IND-LHR on NW or anything like that.
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HPAEAA
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 4):
No, there will always be a need for hubs. But planes like the 787 might eliminate one stop from a three stop trip. Instead of going point-hub-hub-point, you may be able to travel point-hub-point.

Open Skies will not end the hub system, but it's another nail in the coffin of the A380.



Quoting Danny (Reply 6):
The major misconception of this forum is putting point to point against hub and spoke as alternatives. With traffic tripling over next 20 year we will basically need both.

So far we hardly see any point to point flights over the Atlantic. Hub to hub and hub to point dominate.

Well, one could argue that a mix will work... personally, from a network perspective, AA or WN has a nice stance compared to the rest of the carriers (not to say that it's better but more diverse), I would argue that as traffic increases we will see more point to point flying (being cheaper) provided revenue justifies it, but we will still continue to see some hubs due to small markets which can't sustain it... honestly, I like AA"s Approach with few hubs, and multiple focus cities.. focusing on O/D traffic has allowed them to keep capacity there for the locals and cut down on Conx given that atleast one hub (ORD) is prone to delays...
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RL757PVD
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:54 pm

There will always be a need for hubs, just not as many.

Right now we have Hubs and focus cities, i feel that we will move to something like this:

Primary Hubs... airports with the appropriate infrastrure to support it, ATL, DFW, DEN, ORD, IAH

Secondary hubs, places like PHX, PHL, SLC, CVG, JFK, MSP,

Primary Focus or gateway cities, places like CLE, MKE, CVG, MCO, LAX, MIA

Secondary focus, places like BOS, FLL, SEA

Obviously in this system the focus city is much larger than todays idea of a focus city, the focus city today as we see it such as DL @ CMH, is more fo the shift to point to point rather than a "true focus"

Examples:

Delta
Primary - ATL
Secondary - JFK SLC
Primary Focus CVG, LAX
Secondary Focus BOS

American
Primary - DFW
Secondary - ORD...(MIA if they add more cities/network, tough from the location)
Primary Focus STL JFK MIA LAX
Secondary Focus RDU
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steeler83
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:04 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 6):
The major misconception of this forum is putting point to point against hub and spoke as alternatives. With traffic tripling over next 20 year we will basically need both.

I think this too.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 9):
Primary Focus or gateway cities, places like CLE, MKE, CVG, MCO, LAX, MIA

Would PIT fit into this category with 150-160 daily flights for US, or would it be more of a secondary focus city?

How about CLT or LAS? Where would such airports fit this?

All the same, I think this is an interesting way of putting it, describing what the future of air travel may come to. To me it makes sense...
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Matt1167
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:05 pm

And, we have to remember that even airlines which use point-to-point route systems, like WN, still have some "form" of a hub and spoke system, although on a domestic level.

Think of WN at MDW, LAS, MCI, etc .. it's pretty likely that one would have to transfer at one of these airports for a cross country flight, despite WN's overall point-to-point nature.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 10):
Would PIT fit into this category with 150-160 daily flights for US, or would it be more of a secondary focus city?

How about CLT or LAS? Where would such airports fit this?

Id say Primary focus for LAS, secondary for PIT

If CLT can get a 3rd parallel they can be a primary hub, but thei O&D sucks, so maybe only a secondary level hub.

The airports with the proper facilities today (3 simultaneous ILS approaches) will be the key hubs of tommorrow
ATL, DFW, DEN, IAH, ORD (post modermization)

Some current hubs shouldnt be hubs because they lack the airside infrastructure, but the O&D is just so good the airlines get sucked in:
EWR and PHL
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airfrnt
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting IAHFLYER (Thread starter):
With the EU-US open sky system, will we see the end of the hub and spoke system?

It will increase fragmentation which will drive the widebodies smaller and the narrowbodies bigger, but it won't kill hub and spoke. You will see Hub to Hub replaced with Hub to Point (so instead of 2x777 daily to ORD from LHR being fed by 5 737s into LHR, you instead will see 2x787 to ORD, 1x787 to DEN, being fed by 4 737s into LHR) . You will see the expansion and/or fragmentation of alliances which will try to work in the 4 major LCC carriers (WN, B6, FL, F9) and capitalize off of smaller hubs in addition to the old mega hubs.

You will also see more competition on the mega routes. B6 sooner or later will have a LHR or LGW service out of LGA. There will be more international at the second largest hub in each system (with the probably exception of DL). DEN, PIT, IAH will all see more international service that will leach traffic out of ORD, CLT and EWR.
 
steeler83
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 13):
DEN, PIT, IAH will all see more international service that will leach traffic out of ORD, CLT and EWR.

This will be decent. How will IAH see more international traffic leach out of ORD CLT or EWR, or are you referring to different airlines' respective hubs, like PIT with CLT for US, DEN with ORD for UA, and IAH with EWR for CO? What about CLE with EWR?

Come to think of it, I guess you are referring to three airlines' respective hubs the way you worded that statement  Smile
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CV880
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:57 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 12):
If CLT can get a 3rd parallel they can be a primary hub, but thei O&D sucks, so maybe only a secondary level hub.

CLT 3rd Parallel construction now starting, O&D previously sucked due to locals running to RDU/GSO for lower fares.
 
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 9):
There will always be a need for hubs, just not as many.

Not sure I agree with this. As markets grow, so to is hub capacity diminished which will probably drive new hubs.
 
haggis79
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting IAHFLYER (Thread starter):
With the EU-US open sky system, will we see the end of the hub and spoke system?

certainly not... keep in mind, if you want to have point to point connections ONLY you would have to connect EVERY airport in Europe to EVERY airport in the US.... now that's quite unrealistic, isn't it?
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:07 pm

Focus city is just another word for a small-scale hub... no difference in its basic functions. Give passenger the opportunity to connect from A to B. Thus most carriers have a far more extensive hub-and-spoke system than advertized.
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XT6Wagon
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:33 pm

I think you will see "mega" hubs slowly dissolve as traffic moves more and more from starting where people are and ending where they want to go, with little to no stops between.

There is just far too many smaller and medium sized airports that can support becoming "mini-hubs" if needed so that you can get from anywhere major to anywhere major in only 1 stop each way. Even more so with aircraft like the 787 where the trip costs are low enough that you can dump 1/2 the plane after a transatlantic at one airport, then carry the other 1/2 to another airport and make your money no question.

Basicly I'm thinking over time more and more airlines will route more and more like WN does if for no other reason than some airports will be unable/unwilling to support new or smaller airlines for reasons from political (DFW), capacity (LHR), or whatever. So if you are late to the party that is transatlantic flights, you don't have a choice but to avoid the large airports and service other airports, even for "hubbing". Then as these new flights move passengers from the major hubs to the secondary airports the traffic flow to the major hubs diminished, thus over time the major hub gets reduced in overall size compared to the other airports... thus a Mega-hub over time is no longer a mega hub.
 
jasond
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:44 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 6):
The major misconception of this forum is putting point to point against hub and spoke as alternatives. With traffic tripling over next 20 year we will basically need both.

Absolutely spot on Danny, a network is a network and can encapsulate both models happily from a variety of perspectives especially the market orientated one, in fact one could not exist without the other, they are not mutually exclusive.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 18):
Focus city is just another word for a small-scale hub

Not necessarily.

Many have called PIT a focus city for US. In fact, it still functions as a hub, the main idea there is service to local and regional markets with connections to larger markets farther away (as opposed to large-scale transcontinental operations - that's what PHL, CLT, and PHX are for). Same with AA at STL, with major connecting hubs at ORD and DFW.

In contrast, AA, DL, and US each have sizeable operations at LGA sometimes called a small hub. In fact, LGA has very little connecting traffic, and most flights there are full just from O+D traffic.
 
Aither
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 6):
The major misconception of this forum is putting point to point against hub and spoke as alternatives. With traffic tripling over next 20 year we will basically need both.

The misconception is even greater : Hub and spoke and point to point can't be compared.
-Point to point is from a passenger perspective.
-Hub & Spoke is from an operational perspective.

For example, most of the point to point traffic is actually carried between cities with hubs (like Paris-New york).

[Edited 2007-03-29 15:21:24]
Never trust the obvious
 
RL757PVD
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 16):
Not sure I agree with this. As markets grow, so to is hub capacity diminished which will probably drive new hubs.

Not sure that it would drive new HUBS (the way we see them today) but this could likely drive more focus city ops like what we see at places like PIT and RDU.

Places like CMH IND PDX SMF SAT and AUS could all see ehanced growth as hub capacity is diminished, but i dont see them becomming all-out hubs.
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Cubsrule
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 10):

How about CLT or LAS? Where would such airports fit this?

At 550 daily flights, CLT is certainly a large hub.
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InnocuousFox
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting IAHFLYER (Thread starter):
With the EU-US open sky system, will we see the end of the hub and spoke system?

I can't see how the two are that related. 80% of the locations in the US aren't going to support direct flights to anywhere to the EU, are they? They can't even support direct flights to more than a couple of cities in the US. Really, you skipping about 2 or 3 layers of complexity here. A real stretch.
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steeler83
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
At 550 daily flights, CLT is certainly a large hub.

That was my thinking. Somebody said that above that PIT would be a secondary hub, but I am not sure about that. It is US' fourth largest station, behind CLT, PHL and PHX in that order. It has about 15 or 20 more daily flights than LAS, with roughly 130 or so. It looks like there is a lot more regional service returning to PIT as well...
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RL757PVD
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:46 am

Those primary/secondary hub and primary secondary focus cities were terms that i myself made up and arent exactly parallel to what we call them today, so let me expand...

Primary Hub:
Airfield Infrastructure to support 2,000+ daily operations and 3x simultaneous IFR approaches
200+ destinations served by primary airline

Secondary Hub
Infrastructure to support 1,500+ daily operations, at least 3 parallel runways 2x IFR arrival capability
150+ destinations served by primary airline

Primary focus/gateway
Infrastructure to support 1,200+ daily operations, at least 2 parallel runways
60+ destinations served by the primary airline, maybe a little less if its a INTL gateway like DL @ LAX

Secondary focus
infrastructure to support 800+ daily operations, parallel runways desired
30+ destinations served by primary airline, half of which are probably on regional feed like AA at RDU


Anyways, again i pretty much made this up myself, but I believe itd be a better way to classify hubs and focus cities to better indicate the true airport role.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 18):
Focus city is just another word for a small-scale hub... no difference in its basic functions.

Technically incorrect, though functionally realistic.

A hub is a location where banks of flights are specifically timed for connecting to each other. Nothing more, nothing less. Size and number of flights have nothing to do with it per se.

A focus city is an operation with flights catering to specific O&D + specific service patterns. If large enough, significant amounts of passenger transfer can occur by default; and the airline may even add one/two/several flights intentionally timed to feed/connect to others (though not entire banks).

As you can see, the technical application can easily be skewed... and there's also the great irony that, by "rolling" (i.e., depeaking the banks) of their largest hubs; the likes of DL & AA have essentially transformed ATL & DFW from hubs into large focus cities. Who knew?  Wink
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Aither
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:12 am

Airbus in their forecast publication have a route development chapter. They seem to use a list of 32 big hub cities.
Never trust the obvious
 
Aircellist
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):

Secondary HubInfrastructure to support 1,500+ daily operations, at least 3 parallel runways 2x IFR arrival capability150+ destinations served by primary airline

Primary focus/gatewayInfrastructure to support 1,200+ daily operations, at least 2 parallel runways60+ destinations served by the primary airline, maybe a little less if its a INTL gateway like DL @ LAX

Funny that, by this runway definition, LHR would be a primary focus city, as well as YUL...
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SSRJ
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:28 am

Ohhh Man. My brain almost exploded when I saw this topic.

The hub and spoke system is the best and greatest and most efficient system of air service possible in this universe.

Every airline of any real size uses, adores, participates in and (and if they don't presently) needs the hub and spoke.
YES SOUTHFRICKINWEST AIRLINES USES HUB AND SPOKE everywhere too.

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ORDagent
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 4):
Open Skies will not end the hub system, but it's another nail in the coffin of the A380.

Any reason to trash the 380!  Yeah sure Regardless if you call LHR/ORD/LAX/FRA/CDG hubs or not they only have so much space and slots and as has been stated ad nausium by just about every forcast regarding airtraffic the growth is going to be exponential for the next 50 years. Big cities demand big lift and that's what the 380 will do. Of course cities like CVG-MXP and such are better suited to 787/350 but not every market is the same and will demand different loads based on O&D and hub connex demand.
 
highflyer9790
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 9):
American
Primary - DFW
Secondary - ORD...(MIA if they add more cities/network, tough from the location)
Primary Focus STL JFK MIA LAX
Secondary Focus RDU

Dont forget BOS- its one of AA's current domicililes and has a large operation out of there.
121
 
DesertAir
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:47 am

I like the rolling hub that AA has initiated in which flights arrive and depart for various destinations instead of the bank system. I hope I understand this correctly. This is how WN operates their large operation airports like Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Phoenix and others. For a city like Tucson, frequent flights to Las Vegas allow for connections around the nation. When you include WN one-stop flights, there are a lot of options.
 
swissy
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:54 am

Hub & spoke was developed because of .......... lessons learned from the aviation "history", if you look at the "predicted growing rates of pax in the future a lot more airports will be "slot" restricted and bigger equipment (747-?, 380) will be needed, I know A & B would rather have no hubs or very small ones so they could sell more aircrafts.....  Wink operating point to point would never work with out the good old hubs.

Cheers
 
jbernie
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:39 am

When i was growing up in Australia I didn't understand the hub & spoke system here in the USA, now that I have been living here for about 8 years and travelling about, I can see that it isn't always perfect, but it is probably the best setup you can impliment to make for an economical service.

There are just too many small cities around the country that cannot provide the traffic volume to a large number of destinations. Funnel the traffic from those cities into the Hubs to generate larger traffic numbers to make the routes better.
 
scouse
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:03 pm

if I look at my travel requirements over the last 5 years I need hub and spoke. I am lucky as I live close to a hub (MSP) but I have travelled over this time to possibly 40 airports outside of USA that are not hubs and they have no chance of being a point to point from my local airport. So if MSP was not a hub for NW and AMS not a hub for KLM how would I get to WAW or LEI or MAN or CPT or TPE or HKG or MUC or ALC or CWL or CPH or MAD or so many others. I could only imagine 2 or 4 more connections than I already do.
Even if the ammount of point to point were doubled some passengers would need to take one flight to get to the first or last point which would make them mini hubs.
Long live the hub and spoke.
Love to fly
 
steeler83
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:16 pm

Quoting Scouse (Reply 37):
Long live the hub and spoke.

Amen!!! and how about if I wanted to fly from LNS or MDT to LAX... um... the last time I checked, a turboprop cannot fly 2600 miles, but a flight to PIT or ORD can put me on a plane that is capable of flying that distance  Smile
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DiscoverCSG
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 32):
Of course cities like CVG-MXP and such are better suited to 787/350

More like an ERJ-145XXXXR.
 
Burkhard
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:52 pm

We are just at the beginning of a huge concentration process. Number of airlines will reduce to half or a third within a few years, and less airports will have connectivity everywhere. Airports and more air spaces will run into their limits, and the answer will be ever larger aircrafts. There will be exceptions, mainly in the US, but generally we will see 737-300 replaced by 737-800 or A321, B767 or A300 by A330/B777, Airbus and Boeing are pressed to double stretch their 787/350 before the first is in the air. Average aircraft will become bigger. Hubs will have to handle more passengers.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:03 am

On this note, there is a poll on our site asking about your preferences. This isn't necessarily which is the "best", but which one you like (for whatever reason). You don't need to sign up to vote or see the results, but would need to if you wanted to comment as to why you think the way you do. (Of course, there are other reasons you may want to register on there!) We would love to hear from you!  thumbsup 
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bmacleod
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:37 am

Smaller towns and cities just don't have the market or airport infrastructure needed to fly to Europe or Asia the hub/spoke systems will likely stay for that matter. Most towns and cities in Atlantic Canada except YHZ need to fly to YUL or YYZ to fly to Europe or Asia or even U.S.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):
Primary Hub:
Airfield Infrastructure to support 2,000+ daily operations and 3x simultaneous IFR approaches

So if we use that rationale, DEN is the only primary hub! (or does ATL qualify now w/ 10/28?).
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
steeler83
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 42):
Smaller towns and cities just don't have the market or airport infrastructure needed to fly to Europe or Asia the hub/spoke systems will likely stay for that matter.

Anyone for US opening a hub at COS?  Wink

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 40):
There will be exceptions, mainly in the US, but generally we will see 737-300 replaced by 737-800 or A321, B767 or A300 by A330/B777, Airbus and Boeing are pressed to double stretch their 787/350 before the first is in the air. Average aircraft will become bigger. Hubs will have to handle more passengers.

So what does this mean then, for airports like LAX, ORD, PHL, and JFK, particularly JFK and PHL, airports that already see in excess of 30 million pax annually and are out of room for growth, or just about out of room. I think ORD still has room to expand, not sure about LAX though...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 43):
So if we use that rationale, DEN is the only primary hub! (or does ATL qualify now w/ 10/28?).

Actually there are a handful of capable (3x simultaneous ILS approaches) airports now

ATL
DEN
MCO
DFW
IAH
i think CVG

and eventually ORD, and maybe IAD
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting Scouse (Reply 37):
Long live the hub and spoke.

AMEN TO THAT!!!! Quite frankly the Aviation system cannot survive without the hub and spoke. The thing I dont understand about this post is why some think that it has to be one or the other. Its true that with the arrival of the 787, we might see more international service from secondary hubs, but the system will remain. I think the perfect example is IAH (even though its the biggest CO hub, it plays second place to EWR in terms of international destinations served with Mexico and central America as an exception). I think we will see more build up at IAH for CO once the 787 arrives.

But back to the point, both Hub and Spoke and Point to Point services are nececary. Some cities cannot support a hub, but need service to certain points. A perfect example is AUS. AUS-LAX on AA does very well. It is obvious that a link between the two cities is needed, however AUS could not support a hub. But I think hub and spoke will remain predominant.
It is what it is...
 
steeler83
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 46):
But back to the point, both Hub and Spoke and Point to Point services are nececary. Some cities cannot support a hub, but need service to certain points. A perfect example is AUS. AUS-LAX on AA does very well. It is obvious that a link between the two cities is needed, however AUS could not support a hub. But I think hub and spoke will remain predominant.

I think PIT would be another good example of point2point flying, but that has been argued to death...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
steeler83
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 46):
But back to the point, both Hub and Spoke and Point to Point services are nececary. Some cities cannot support a hub, but need service to certain points. A perfect example is AUS. AUS-LAX on AA does very well. It is obvious that a link between the two cities is needed, however AUS could not support a hub. But I think hub and spoke will remain predominant.

I think PIT would be another good example of point2point flying, but that has been argued to death...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: HUB And Spoke System, The End Is Near?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 47):
I think PIT would be another good example of point2point flying, but that has been argued to death...

Youre right, it would be.  Smile  Smile
It is what it is...

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