a380us
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

TLV -Far East?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:14 pm

so as of now the only services between TLV-Far East is as follows
6H 1 weekly in the summer 2 weekly in the winter TLV-BKK
LY 13 weekly to BKK
LY 3 weekly to PEK
LY 6 weekly to HKG
cargo
LY -HKG
LY- PVG
LY- ICN

so isnt it underserved
also im pretty sure all of the passenger flights go out with very heavy loads
and if CX were to do a HKG- TLV LY would get nocked off the route
and why dont TG or SQ operat a BKK/SIN-HKG-TLV?
why dont any asian carriers fly to TLV?
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IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:51 pm

KE launched a cargo flight to TLV in November. The Jerusalem Post reported in January or February that KE held meetings with Israeli officials to discuss the possibility of also starting passenger flights from ICN to TLV.

In the past,CX and SQ considered starting flights to TLV. These two airlines believe that flights would generate strong demand, especially from premium business travellers. However, the detours to avoid countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia probably make these flights too costly to operate. AI discontinued flights from BOM to TLV despite the fact that these flights were almost always full. Although TLV generated strong revenue for AI, the fuel and other costs associated with the detours around the Gulf and Saudi Arabia ultimately made these flights unprofitable.
 
avi
Posts: 900
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:50 am

IAD380,

While I agree with you that the needed detour is probably the reason El-AL is the only company that serves TLV and the Far East, I disagree with the sentence …made these flights unprofitable

There is no such thing unprofitable flight in a route without competition. If you have to make a (long) detour, which means extra flight hours, which means extra fuel, the outcome is more expensive flight ticket.

Believe me El-Al does not loss money on these routes. On the contrary, they are making very good money out of it (because the lack of competition).

If a new company join in, the tickets price will go down but the routes will remain very profitable.
Long live the B747
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:53 am

Hi, Avi,

AI did compete with LY on the BOM-TLV route. AI had no problem filling the seats. However, it withdrew, leaving LY with a monopoly on the route. Why did AI withdraw?
 
gemini573
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:53 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting Avi (Reply 2):
Believe me El-Al does not loss money on these routes.

Agree 100%. They wouldn't increase the frequencies if they were. I think HKG has more frequencies to TLV than LAX? Could be wrong. I think LAX gets 5 weekly.
 
a380us
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 3):


AI did compete with LY on the BOM-TLV route. AI had no problem filling the seats. However, it withdrew, leaving LY with a monopoly on the route. Why did AI withdraw?

so why dosent 6H or IZ try the route

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 1):

In the past,CX and SQ considered starting flights to TLV. These two airlines believe that flights would generate strong demand, especially from premium business travellers. However, the detours to avoid countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia probably make these flights too costly to operate.

but LY and CX/SQ would lose the same amount of money on detours and yet LY still makes $$$$$$$
www.JandACosmetics.com
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting A380US (Reply 5):
LY and CX/SQ would lose the same amount of money on detours and yet LY still makes $$$$$$$

No airline flies between TLV and SIN because the detours around Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, Malaysia, and Indonesia make the route unfeasible. LY flies to HKG, and CX has considered flying to TLV. Although TLV probably would prove to be very lucrative destinations for CX, it so far has declined to fly there. My guess is that the extra costs and inefficiencies of the detour has deterred CX from competing with LY on flights between HKG and TLV.

Quoting A380US (Reply 5):
so why dosent 6H or IZ try the route

I think that there are two plausible explanations. First, the bilateral treaty between Israel and India probably allows each country to designate only one carrier to this route. Second, 6H and IZ probably don't have spare aircraft to start flights to BOM.
 
zrs70
Posts: 3385
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting A380US (Thread starter):
why dont any asian carriers fly to TLV?

Well, Technically, EL AL is an Asian carrier, as Israel/ the Middle East is technically part of Asia.

That said, your point is well taken. I think at one point (perhaps still), EL AL and Thai codeshared on the BKK route, but always with LY aircraft.
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todaReisinger
Posts: 902
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 4:19 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:25 am

Many Asian airlines are serving lots of important destinations in the Arab and Islamic world, maybe there's also a connection to the absence of service to TLV. I remember that there was a problem with Swissair in the early 1990s when it came out that the airline was issuing special editions of its timetables and flight magazines for Arab countries where neither TLV nor Israel were mentioned.
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
nycaross
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 11:43 pm

RE: TLV -Far East?

Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:17 am

When I worked at Lufthansa doing rates and ticketing, if a ticket included arab and israeli stops, in the fare ladder on those ticket booklets that contained coupons to arab destinations, TLV was indicated as XXX and if LY was on the ticket, it was shown as XX. I was told if the ticket was not done that way, LH could have been penalized by the arab countries.
 
a380us
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 7):
That said, your point is well taken. I think at one point (perhaps still), EL AL and Thai codeshared on the BKK route, but always with LY aircraft.

and LY would lose so much $$$$$$ if TG decided to fly the route
because its much more luxeriouse than LY
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Ryanair!!!
Posts: 4098
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:55 pm

RE: TLV -Far East?

Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 6):
No airline flies between TLV and SIN because the detours around Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, Malaysia, and Indonesia make the route unfeasible.

If an SQ plane takes off for TLV, where is it supposed to detour? As soon as the planes leaves the runway, it is in Malaysian / Indonesian airspace to the north and south almost immediately. The Singapore FIR only covers the South China Sea up till Vietnam and the western / northern / southern side (presumably a routing a SIN-TLV flight would follow) is under the control of Malaysia and Indonesia FIRs.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
a380us
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: TLV -Far East?

Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 11):



Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 11):
If an SQ plane takes off for TLV, where is it supposed to detour? As soon as the planes leaves the runway, it is in Malaysian / Indonesian airspace to the north and south almost immediately. The Singapore FIR only covers the South China Sea up till Vietnam and the western / northern / southern side (presumably a routing a SIN-TLV flight would follow) is under the control of Malaysia and Indonesia FIRs.

it can always be routed SIN-BKK/PEK/HKG/TPE- TLV or it can simply fly towards BKK then fly the same way the other airlines do now
www.JandACosmetics.com
 
Ryanair!!!
Posts: 4098
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:55 pm

RE: TLV -Far East?

Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:27 pm

Quoting A380US (Reply 12):
it can always be routed SIN-BKK/PEK/HKG/TPE- TLV or it can simply fly towards BKK then fly the same way the other airlines do now

It is not just the routing to be throught about, the mere mention of a service from SIN-TLV would surely warrant a visit from the Malaysian representative office to the Singapore Embassy in Kuala Lumpur. Trust me, SQ has thought about this route many years ago but the political implications outweighed the feasibility and any ideas to start this flight were promptly laid to rest.

How I wish everyone just got along.
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