Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:50 am

As expected ,the Brussels bureaucrats found many good reasons to block a suggested Take-Over bid of Air Lingus through Ryanair.
There were no reasons found when Air France cemented their position by taking over KLM- but Irish aviation must be something special. Not that I particularly like Ryanair -actually I hate their "service" - but for the sake of justice and seriousness there are not valid reasons why Air Lingus could not be bought by the Irish Low-Cost.
Salaries are definitely not as bad within Ryanair as many think,and they would not buy them to kill the Intercontinental routes-rather the opposite.The slight smell of lobby -groups from Ireland becoming very active in Brussels is not out of hands..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:59 am

The reason it was blocked is because it would pretty much eliminate competition on short haul flights into and out of Ireland. With AF and KLM they did not have the same problem as they do (did) not compete directly on many routes.
John Hancock
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:04 am

By the way FR have options to appeal this and it's also still open for debate till June i believe.
John Hancock
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:06 am

True -Air France already had a defacto monopoly in France when it took over KLM.....
They managed to get rid of pretty much most of their competitors very cleverly-but of course without ever dealing directly with them..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
pilot21
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 8:28 am

EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
As expected ,the Brussels bureaucrats found many good reasons to block a suggested Take-Over bid of Air Lingus through Ryanair.

Firstly it is AER Lingus, not Air, and secondly the regulators have said it would harm competition out of Dublin, given they are the 2 dominate carriers out of DUB (FR controls 43% of pax share, and EI has 37%) so a combined airline with 80% share of pax out of Ireland’s main airport is not a good start.

This is also just a document submitted by the regulators to the commission, the commission can and has gone against the regulator opinion, and the final decision is not due until June.

Lastly, while it is easy to compare this take-over to AF/KLM, Ireland is a Island, it doesn't have the luxury of allowing passengers who want to chose another airline to travel to Frankfurt or Brussels on a fantastic road and rail network, we either travel with the combined carrier or take the ferry on most routes, that is not a fair market place in my opinion.

Pilot21
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Not that I particularly like Ryanair -actually I hate their "service" - but for the sake of justice and seriousness there are not valid reasons why Air Lingus could not be bought by the Irish Low-Cost.

Hi Beaucaire, I think you simply, and undsertandably, obviously don't have a strong hold on aviation. The reasons have been well-explained to you by other posters. Ireland is a relatively small market (even though we have one of the world's oldest flag-carriers, Aer Lingus, and Europe's leading low cost carrier, Ryanair), nevertheless aviation is vital to us as we are an island nation. Now both airlines are Irish, and if Ryanair got control of Aer Lingus, gone would be a.) fair competition in and out of Ireland, and b.) IMHO, any chance of an airline with a half-decent quality of service would be gone, that's why we need Aer Lingus to be separate.
Moreover, I don't think it is comparable to the Air France/KLM situation. They are two large airlines, from TWO different countries. Now you are right in saying AF already have a monopoly in France (that I suffer everytime I want to take a domestic flight from Toulouse), but the AF/KLM merger did not cause that.
I hope that clarifies the difference a bit, and my deepest hope (and that of many Irish people with any knowhow of aviation) that Ryanair never gets its hands on Aer Lingus.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:51 am

I think Ryanair has far bigger things to concentrate on than this, such as its intention to double its annual customer numbers from 42m to 84m by 2012.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 6):
I think Ryanair has far bigger things to concentrate on than this, such as its intention to double its annual customer numbers from 42m to 84m by 2012.

For once I agree with you Pe@rson!!  Wow! Let Ryanair double their pax figures as much as they want and forget about Aer Lingus...
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
IADCA
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

RE: EU Says No To Ryanair-Air Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 4):
Lastly, while it is easy to compare this take-over to AF/KLM, Ireland is a Island, it doesn't have the luxury of allowing passengers who want to chose another airline to travel to Frankfurt or Brussels on a fantastic road and rail network, we either travel with the combined carrier or take the ferry on most routes, that is not a fair market place in my opinion.



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 5):
Now you are right in saying AF already have a monopoly in France (that I suffer everytime I want to take a domestic flight from Toulouse), but the AF/KLM merger did not cause that.

The presence of a viable domestic rail network is what makes most of the EU a completely different competitive environment than most of the US; AF does have a competitor on the domestic market called the TGV. Otherwise, flying from LYS-CDG would be ferociously expensive with no other air carrier, but the TGV just kills AF on most routes of that length...Ireland is completely different in that regard. Almost all flights are necessarily international and have no possibility of rail service.

The rail service issue is another reason people need to stop trying to compare FR and WN, in a semi-related vein.
 
Poitin
Posts: 2651
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am

RE: EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:23 am

I wouldn't be dancing in the streets just yet, as Ryanair is more than a little miffed by the leaked "finding".

http://www.ise.ie/app/announcementDetails.asp?ID=1450814

And if you read it carefully, it seems to say, "we have just begun to fight."

As Dan Cook once said: "The opera ain't over until the fat lady sings."
and it looks like she hasn't even gotten to the stage.

And if the EC does actually force FR to back off of the merger, the questions of what happens to the stock they own needs to be looked at -- if they dump 25% of the total stock, what happens to the price?

Finally, if as Pe@rson is right and FR is looking to double their pax numbers, just what does that mean to EI short haul?

This are ugly but real questions.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 9):
, if as Pe@rson is right and FR is looking to double their pax numbers

I am right: FR publicly stated it.

Quoting Poitin (Reply 9):
what does that mean to EI short haul?

This are ugly but real questions.

Competition, my friend. Aer Lingus will need to adapt, to create a better niche, to improve its product, value and service, to maximise its brand awareness and loyalty, to ensure that the public see just one thing not an airline that tries to be everything. It'll need to maximise its focus. Simplify. One major hindrance is that Aer Lingus relies totally on flights to and from Ireland - which has limited potential. In contrast, Ryanair is a major European player with bases throughout Europe - and they'll double and probably triple over time.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 4647
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

RE: EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 10):
One major hindrance is that Aer Lingus relies totally on flights to and from Ireland

Not for long, Aer Lingus is soon to announce a new base outside Ireland.
Aer Lingus also has other things to worry about such as the long-haul fleet which recently got an update, the future order of A350s/787s, to double the short-haul fleet, unions, further cost cutting, and the US expansion which took it's first steps last week.
 
Poitin
Posts: 2651
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am

RE: EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 10):
Competition, my friend. Aer Lingus will need to adapt, to create a better niche, to improve its product, value and service, to maximise its brand awareness and loyalty, to ensure that the public see just one thing not an airline that tries to be everything. It'll need to maximise its focus. Simplify

More important is it needs to control its labor costs. I have pointed this out over the last several months in the Irish Aviation thread. Until now, I suspect FR has not been flying wingtip-to-wingtip with EI on most short haul routes on purpose. If the EC feels that FR and EI should be in competition on the short haul routes, it may well happen.

I referred to this as "Plan B". Since EI basically broke even on their operations and made E68 million of their E76 million profit) on secondary revenue streams (car rental/hotel commissions, food/drink, baggage charges, "other") they have an interesting problem should FR chose to match the routes EI flies short haul.

My father used to say, "if the climate changes, you have the same choices as the dinosaurs -- you can move, adapt or go extinct."

While there has been at attempt to reduce labor costs, I would say that so-far it has been ineffective.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 20981
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:50 am

There will always be a person that flies FR and a person that flies EI so they will both remain in the market. The idea that EI will be booted out by FR will not happen because it has been said before but EI has turned itself around and it now in very good shape.

I thing that a take over would be against the public interest and for once Brussels has done something decent.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4406
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: EU Says No To Ryanair-Aer Lingus Take-Over

Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 1):
With AF and KLM they did not have the same problem as they do (did) not compete directly on many routes.

US legal theory and practice would allow the finding that the AF/KL merger could be barred because it eliminated potential competition; it would also allow the view that sufficient potential competition exists at DUB to permit the EI/FR merger.

The views seem almost contradictory, don't they? That's why we have lawyers.  Wink

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 76er, airsmiles, atypical, bill142, DBun, hoons90, sailsman1, seat1a, speedygonzales, Yahoo [Bot] and 183 guests