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1337Delta764
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Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:12 am

I have heard the news that Delta intends on adding 10 more seats to the 737-800s and domestic 767-300s. This will be accomplished through the use of slimmer seats.

I have a few questions though:
  • Does anyone know who will make the seats? If I were to assume, I would guess that the seats will be made by Recaro. If the seats are indeed made by Recaro, I hope Delta goes with either the CL3510 or the CL3610
  • Will these new seats have headrests? I personally think that Delta made a mistake on removing the headrests from the seats on the 737-800s and newer 757s. Luckily the headrests were kept on the 767-400s and 777s. Hopefully these new slimline seats will add headrests back to the 737-800s. At least these new seats, either with or without headrests, will be better than the current seats on the domestic 767-300s, which are shorter than those on Delta's other aircraft.
  • Will the new slimline seats become the standard on new aircraft? I know that the new lie-flat BusinessElite seats by Contour Premium will be the standard for all new long-range international aircraft. Also, what will the domestic First Class seats be like on the new 737-700s?

    If anyone has information, please reply to this thread. Thanks.
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    Halcyon
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:20 am

    So they're slimming the width? At 17 inches, it's already pretty tight, and the pitch is not that great either. From seat guru: Economy Class: 32.0" 17.0" 134 seats.

    I wonder what the new seats will be like. can't really rag on it until I've tried it, but, if true, I usually a fan of seats getting bigger instead of smaller.
     
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    OA260
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:23 am

    I presume they will be like these as seen on Swiss. Only difference is Swiss made them thinner to give more leg room. They are comfortable seats though. I have flown lots of times on them .

     
    pacifica
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:49 am

    Quoting Halcyon (Reply 1):
    So they're slimming the width? At 17 inches, it's already pretty tight, and the pitch is not that great either. From seat guru: Economy Class: 32.0" 17.0" 134 seats.

    I wonder what the new seats will be like. can't really rag on it until I've tried it, but, if true, I usually a fan of seats getting bigger instead of smaller.

    I'm not too sure if your trying to be sarcastic or serious here, but if you're being serious then I'll explain. Slimline doesn't refer to the width of the seat bottom in that regard, it actually refers to the thickness of the seat (ex. padding), in that Recaro and some of the other seat makers have found ways to make a less thick seat that is still extremely comfortable and supportive. It gives passengers the perception of greater leg room and seat pitch, because the seat is designed to give more room at the knee and leg level due to being less thick. From what I've heard, it adds about 2" of virtual seat pitch, meaning that with the new seats Delta's 32" pitch in economy will actually FEEL like 34" pitch with the old seats.
     
    Alitalia744
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:52 am

    the seats, images, manufacturer, width, pitch, IFE, headrest information, color and make/model will be available in the near future.
    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
     
    runway23
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:13 am

    Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
    I presume they will be like these as seen on Swiss. Only difference is Swiss made them thinner to give more leg room. They are comfortable seats though. I have flown lots of times on them .

    Check your facts again. The new seats meant a quite significant increase in seats on all the aircraft they installed it on. The seat pitch was in fact reduced though the perceived seat pitch kept the same.
     
    Evan767
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:20 am

    Quoting Pacifica (Reply 3):
    greater leg room and seat pitch,

    Unfortunately, Delta is more interested in revenue than it is in seat pitch.
    The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
     
    aanyc
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:26 am

    I have a feeling that this is more rumour than fact. By adding 10 seats to the 737-800 for a total of 160 seats and 260 on the domestic 763, this would require one additional flight attendant on each aircraft. I can't see the revenue from 10 seats off setting the cost of 1 additional flight attendant. Delta removed 2 seats from their domestic 763 to reduce minimum crew. Why add the seats now?
     
    floridaflyboy
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:30 am

    Quoting Aanyc (Reply 7):
    I have a feeling that this is more rumour than fact. By adding 10 seats to the 737-800 for a total of 160 seats and 260 on the domestic 763, this would require one additional flight attendant on each aircraft. I can't see the revenue from 10 seats off setting the cost of 1 additional flight attendant. Delta removed 2 seats from their domestic 763 to reduce minimum crew. Why add the seats now?

    That's exactly what I was thinking. Airlines like to keep those mid-sized aircraft at or below 150 so that they can keep the minimum cabin crew down.
    Good goes around!
     
    Alitalia744
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:32 am

    Quoting Aanyc (Reply 7):
    I have a feeling that this is more rumour than fact.

    It was announced at INvestor Day. go listen at Delta.com......
    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
     
    MCOflyer
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:37 am

    Well these seats should be confortable as others have said, but would 10 seats make up for that extra f/a in terms of reveanue?

    MCOflyer
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    Alitalia744
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:38 am

    Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 10):
    Well these seats should be confortable as others have said, but would 10 seats make up for that extra f/a in terms of reveanue?

    MCOflyer

    Thats my question given just a few years ago they reduced the 738s to 150 and just last year took down the 763
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    ikramerica
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:39 am

    Honestly, why not just use webbed back chairs with metal tube frames like the olden days. It's getting there anyway. These thin back chairs mean that anyone getting anything from the pocket will be punching you in the small of your back and people crossing their legs kicking you with their feet. Not just jarring the seat, but physically kicking and jabbing you through the ultra thin seatbacks. I've felt this on some thin back seats (like on some of CO's 757 and 737) and it is not a good feeling.

    Delta Y seats already suck for a tall person, so hopefully they will at least add something to the height. I'm just not looking forward to being jabbed in the back with fists and knees. Maybe they will have hard plastic shells to isolate such intrusions, but most thin seats of the last generation don't.

    Quoting Pacifica (Reply 3):
    still extremely comfortable and supportive

    You say "still" as if older Y seats are extremely comfortable, and i highly doubt the new ones are "extremely" comfortable either. They may be adequately comfortable, but not "extremely."

    Quoting Runway23 (Reply 5):
    The seat pitch was in fact reduced though the perceived seat pitch kept the same.

    There is no such thing as "perceived seat pitch" and the term pitch should be replaced when talking about pax space to "knee room" instead. Pitch is meaningless unless it is also accompanied by seat back thickness.
    Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
     
    Alitalia744
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:42 am

    i think people will be pleasantly pleased in some aspects...
    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
     
    MCOflyer
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:46 am

    Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):
    i think people will be pleasantly pleased in some aspects...

    More service ratio of f/a's to pax.

    In my opinion DL isn't getting any revenue because these additional 10 seats will pay the extra f/a. Now if it were Business Elite, then it would different.

    MCOflyer
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    OOer
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:29 am

    Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 14):
    In my opinion DL isn't getting any revenue because these additional 10 seats will pay the extra f/a.

    Are you serious?

    Even if you are paying $50 per hour for a F/A, on a 3 hour flight thats an extra $150. DLs load factor is usually around 80% I believe, so if 8 out of those 10 seats are filled it brings Delta what? Well about $70-80 per seat, which equals to a net gain of $410-490 per 3 hour flight. So it would make sense to add 10 seats on a 738, especially on those international flights DL makes good money on!!!!!
     
    CTHEWORLD
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:33 am

    Quoting Evan767 (Reply 6):
    Unfortunately, Delta is more interested in revenue than it is in seat pitch.

    Uh, isnt that what they are in business to do, create revenue?
     
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    fanoftristars
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:15 am

    DL isn't adding that many more seats; I think just one row of 6 seats. Didn't this plane hold 154 seats before they took out two rows? I can't remember, but I think there are 4 seats missing from the back of the plane on the left hand side.
    "FLY DELTA JETS"
     
    centrair
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:23 am

    Who makes the ANA domestic Seats? They are very thin and suppose to be environmentally friendly (recycled materials). They have saved money for ANA due to their light weight structure. They are now looking at applying the same technology to domestic C to see if it will save even more in fuel costs.
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    1337Delta764
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:37 am

    In economy class, I believe that the seat manufacturers may vary based on aircraft type. I think that the current economy seats on the domestic 767-300s are the oldest in the fleet, which explains why they are shorter than on other aircraft. In fact, they are too short to fit PTVs, and may be one of the reasons Delta intends on adding new economy seats to the domestic 767-300s. I do not know who makes any of Delta's economy class or domestic first class seats, however, I do know who makes the BusinessElite seats. The current BusinessElite seats are made by B/E Aerospace, the new lie-flat BusinessElite seats will be made by Contour Premium.
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    atlflyer
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:43 am

    Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
    the seats, images, manufacturer, width, pitch, IFE, headrest information, color and make/model will be available in the near future.

    Any date on when these new seats will be revealed? It will be nice to see new seats on the 737-800 and 767-300s...Also if I remember correctly from a press release, the recline will not intrude on the person behind you because the bottom of these seats will move forward.

    Also, can you tell us any time frame of when we may see a 777-300ER and 787 order from Delta? Within a year? Six months?
     
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    1337Delta764
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:04 am

    Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 20):
    Also, can you tell us any time frame of when we may see a 777-300ER and 787 order from Delta? Within a year? Six months?

    I would expect a 787 order at least in the fall, and at the same time, Delta could order the 777-300ER. For the 787, I would expect the inital order to be for the 787-8.

    I wonder if the new slimline seats will become the standard for Delta's new aircraft. If these new seats don't have headrests, it would be a joke to see them on the 777-200LRs. Maybe Delta will order both versions with and without headrests, but hopefully Delta orders them all with headrests. Its a shame that Delta removed the headrests from the 737-800s and newer 757s, but luckily Delta kept them on the 767-400s and 777-200ERs. A few of Delta's newest 767-300ERs also feature headrests, I wonder if Delta intends on keeping them.

    [Edited 2007-04-02 03:06:48]
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    Alitalia744
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:11 am

    Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 20):
    Also, can you tell us any time frame of when we may see a 777-300ER and 787 order from Delta? Within a year? Six months?

    I would think Delta's fleet plan will become clear within the next few months. What that fleet plan holds is anyone's guess, unless of course you read between, or listen between the lines...

    Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 20):
    Also if I remember correctly from a press release, the recline will not intrude on the person behind you because the bottom of these seats will move forward.

    There are other airlines that have announced a similar seat to what Delta will install.

    Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):
    I wonder if the new slimline seats will become the standard for Delta's new aircraft. If these new seats don't have headrests, it would be a joke to see them on the 777-200LRs. Maybe Delta will order both versions with and without headrests, but hopefully Delta orders them all with headrests.



    In an ideal world, there will be standardization. The new type of seats coming out of manufacturers do not have "wings" per se, but an alternate mode of "headrest." Whether Delta applies this type of seat to the fleet or not remains to be seen.



    The piece of info here is that you could deduce who manufactures these seats by either: doing some research or re-looking at old posts in which an article clearly stated who was making them.


    [Edited 2007-04-02 03:18:49]

    [Edited 2007-04-02 03:26:29]
    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
     
    UnknownUser
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:43 am

    I wonder if they are anything like FL's? Those seats are awful. The recline is bad, the tray table falls down and the seat back pockets always seem to be destroyed. That's my opinion from only two flights on what seemed to be new aircraft. They are Recaro seats I believe.
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    Alitalia744
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:52 am

    Quoting UnknownUser (Reply 23):
    I wonder if they are anything like FL's? Those seats are awful. The recline is bad, the tray table falls down and the seat back pockets always seem to be destroyed. That's my opinion from only two flights on what seemed to be new aircraft. They are Recaro seats I believe.

    No.
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    worldtraveler
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:17 am

    Also, the 738s are increasingly being used on transcon and Caribbean/Latin services where meal service is offered. While food will be complementary on int'l routes and up front, DL is expected to begin selling food onboard again on domestic routes. FAs become revenue generators in that case.
     
    elmothehobo
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:33 am

    Quoting Halcyon (Reply 1):
    I presume they will be like these as seen on Swiss. Only difference is Swiss made them thinner to give more leg room. They are comfortable seats though. I have flown lots of times on them .



    Quoting Runway23 (Reply 5):
    The new seats meant a quite significant increase in seats on all the aircraft they installed it on. The seat pitch was in fact reduced though the perceived seat pitch kept the same.

    Swiss managed to add 12 new seats (2 rows) on the A320s for a total of 168 passengers in a single class configuration, and cut weight by some absurd amount - like 1-2 tonnes.

    Legroom remained the same, pitch dropped by 2 inches per row, though you cannot tell the difference.
     
    deltajet757
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:14 pm

    Bring back the head-rests!!!! I hate having a sore neck after a long flight. The legroom is OK although it could be better but the head-rests would be great.

    -DeltaJet757
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    LRGT
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:33 pm

    Quoting Aanyc (Reply 7):
    I have a feeling that this is more rumour than fact. By adding 10 seats to the 737-800 for a total of 160 seats and 260 on the domestic 763, this would require one additional flight attendant on each aircraft. I can't see the revenue from 10 seats off setting the cost of 1 additional flight attendant. Delta removed 2 seats from their domestic 763 to reduce minimum crew. Why add the seats now?



    Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 8):
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Airlines like to keep those mid-sized aircraft at or below 150 so that they can keep the minimum cabin crew down.



    Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 10):
    Well these seats should be confortable as others have said, but would 10 seats make up for that extra f/a in terms of reveanue?



    Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 11):
    Thats my question given just a few years ago they reduced the 738s to 150 and just last year took down the 763

    I'm sure they're just making first class biger and/or more roomy... there should still be 150 seats on the 738's, just that more of those seats will be first class. That's a great move by Delta as long as the thin seats make up for the lost 1-2" of leg room.

    Quoting UnknownUser (Reply 23):
    I wonder if they are anything like FL's? Those seats are awful. The recline is bad, the tray table falls down and the seat back pockets always seem to be destroyed. That's my opinion from only two flights on what seemed to be new aircraft. They are Recaro seats I believe.



    Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 24):
    No.

    FL does have recaro seats on their 737NG's (not on the 717's)... I actually like them, but haven't flew one of these planes since they were brand new (i've become a slave to continental because of platinum elite), so I can't speak for the 2-3 years of wear they've received.
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    Alitalia744
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:37 pm

    Quoting Lrgt (Reply 28):
    FL does have recaro seats on their 737NG's (not on the 717's)... I actually like them, but haven't flew one of these planes since they were brand new (i've become a slave to continental because of platinum elite), so I can't speak for the 2-3 years of wear they've received.

    I wasn't saying that FL doesn't have Recaro. I was saying the new DL seats are not the same as FL's...

    thanks.
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    NWAROOSTER
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:06 pm

    Quoting Evan767 (Reply 6):
    Unfortunately, Delta is more interested in revenue than it is in seat pitch.



    Quoting Ctheworld (Reply 16):
    Uh, isn't that what they are in business to do, create revenue?

    That is why I call coach Steerage!!!  crowded 
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    boswashsprstar
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:26 pm

    Quoting OOer (Reply 15):
    Even if you are paying $50 per hour for a F/A, on a 3 hour flight thats an extra $150. DLs load factor is usually around 80% I believe, so if 8 out of those 10 seats are filled it brings Delta what? Well about $70-80 per seat, which equals to a net gain of $410-490 per 3 hour flight. So it would make sense to add 10 seats on a 738, especially on those international flights DL makes good money on!!!!!

    Except for that . . . if DL always has an 80% load factor, then those last 10 seats are never filled. If DL goes from 150 to 160 seats, the only reason to do it is if you're frequently filling all 150 seats and could be guaranteed to regularly fill some of the new seats.

    B6 just recently cut their A320 seating from 156 to 150 for this very reason--the last 6 seats weren't filled often enough to justify the extra F/A. (B6 had 156 seats, an admittedly odd number, in the first place because they'd originally had more and cut some out in order to increase seat pitch in a competition with . . . guess who? . . . Song.)
     
    panamair
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:52 pm

    Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):
    A few of Delta's newest 767-300ERs also feature headrests, I wonder if Delta intends on keeping them.

    Yes, those have been kept. Flew on ship 1610 recently and the entire plane had been refurbished except for the BE seats/PTVs; the Y seats were in the usual blue leather and the adjustable headrests were in a darker blue.
     
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    OA260
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:35 pm

    Quoting Runway23 (Reply 5):
    Check your facts again. The new seats meant a quite significant increase in seats on all the aircraft they installed it on. The seat pitch was in fact reduced though the perceived seat pitch kept the same.

    Do you have a link to this ??? All I can find is this::

    http://www.swiss.com/web/IE6/about-s...sw-op-ob-product-reconfig-a320.htm

    The number of seats on the seat map in my GDS has not changed. So where are the extra seats???
     
    vegas005
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:18 pm

    Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 26):
    Swiss managed to add 12 new seats (2 rows) on the A320s for a total of 168 passengers in a single class configuration, and cut weight by some absurd amount - like 1-2 tonnes.

    Legroom remained the same, pitch dropped by 2 inches per row, though you cannot tell the difference.

    Actually you can tell the difference. The old seats are big and soft and the new seats are hard as a rock. I fly SWISS a few times a week on 1 to 2 hour European hops, and I can tell you that I would not want to sit in these seats for more than 2 hours.
     
    Halcyon
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:22 pm

    Quoting Pacifica (Reply 3):

    I'm not too sure if your trying to be sarcastic or serious here, but if you're being serious then I'll explain.

    Serious, as I really no nothing about seating, but when I heard that they were fitting more seats in the same space, I was of course concerned. Thanks for the nice explanation. I'm not very knowledgeable in that area.

    Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 26):
    Quoting Halcyon (Reply 1):
    I presume they will be like these as seen on Swiss. Only difference is Swiss made them thinner to give more leg room. They are comfortable seats though. I have flown lots of times on them .

    What happened there?  Confused
     
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    OA260
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:27 pm

    Quoting Vegas005 (Reply 34):
    Actually you can tell the difference. The old seats are big and soft and the new seats are hard as a rock. I fly SWISS a few times a week on 1 to 2 hour European hops, and I can tell you that I would not want to sit in these seats for more than 2 hours.

    I guess its personal taste. I flew to Greece from Dublin via ZRH on 4 roundtrips and most had the new seats which I prefer. The old seats were ok but you couldnt lift up the armrest if you had a row of 3 to sleep. My flights were at 4am so I wanted to sleep and the old ones were no good for this. I find the new seats very comfortable so I guess its just what you prefer.
     
    atlflyer
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:30 pm

    Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 22):
    In an ideal world, there will be standardization. The new type of seats coming out of manufacturers do not have "wings" per se, but an alternate mode of "headrest." Whether Delta applies this type of seat to the fleet or not remains to be seen.

    What is a headrest without the wings? If it is just extra padding with nothing on the sides, then it is really no different than the current headrests.

    How do you know so much about Delta?
     
    RL757PVD
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:09 pm

    I just hope the seatbacks are taller in coe of the aircraft esp the domestic 763s, they practically only come up to the back of my neck and im only 6 ft. the 777 or 764 seat back height is much better.
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    Alitalia744
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:38 pm

    Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 37):
    How do you know so much about Delta?

    I know very little about Delta compared to some here. That being said, I read a lot.
    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
     
    FRALIM
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:38 am

    Quoting Runway23 (Reply 5):
    Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
    I presume they will be like these as seen on Swiss. Only difference is Swiss made them thinner to give more leg room. They are comfortable seats though. I have flown lots of times on them .

    Check your facts again. The new seats meant a quite significant increase in seats on all the aircraft they installed it on. The seat pitch was in fact reduced though the perceived seat pitch kept the same.

    No 100% correct either... you are right when it comes to the A320's, but the ARJ's are also being refurbished with the new seats (2 so far with the third one expected to be in service at the end of the week). On the ARJ's the number of seats has not been increased (97 seats), which actually leads to a significantly increased seat pitch.
     
    vegas005
    Posts: 264
    Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:25 am

    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:06 am

    Quoting OA260 (Reply 36):
    I guess its personal taste. I flew to Greece from Dublin via ZRH on 4 roundtrips and most had the new seats which I prefer. The old seats were ok but you couldnt lift up the armrest if you had a row of 3 to sleep. My flights were at 4am so I wanted to sleep and the old ones were no good for this. I find the new seats very comfortable so I guess its just what you prefer.

    Good point..I missed that idea. I guess it really is just a matter of personal taste. The new seats do give the aircraft a very clean look. Almost like you are on a new plane....
     
    atlflyer
    Posts: 582
    Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:36 am

    A few months ago, there was an article that talked about new slimline economy seats and how they are now made to recline without intruding on the passenger's space behind you. They mentioned Delta would be installing these on its fleet in the article.

    If the seats that Delta will receive are made from Recaro, then they must be these, because it the only seat with this feature. And they do have headrests. Can't wait to see them...hope Delta doesn't disappoint us!

    http://www.recaro-as.com/ras/product...s/longrange/cl-3610/index.html?L=1
     
    elmothehobo
    Posts: 968
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:21 am

    Quoting FRALIM (Reply 40):
    On the ARJ's the number of seats has not been increased (97 seats), which actually leads to a significantly increased seat pitch.

    Pitch remains the same, perceived legroom increases.
     
    baw716
    Posts: 1461
    Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:13 am

    Well, I'm back...

    OK. First, if DL is installing additional seats, it will incur the cost of an additional flight attendant. On short haul flights, this is just plain dumb, since the revenue increase will not offset the additional cost of the f/a. On longer legs, where the unit costs tend to come down, the added flight attendant can be spread across the entire aircraft, so it is possible that the added seats will generate enough revenue to cover the cost of the f/a and generate the margin target they are attempting to reach. So goes the theory.

    Now, DL is installing PTVs in all it's aircraft, with the exception of, as I understand it, the 763. If this is true, this is really dumb...and I don't believe DL to be stupid in their decision making (unlike other carriers upon whom I have commented on this forum). The Recaro seat built for Swiss does not have the capacity for IFE (IMO), but I might be wrong about that. I have heard good things about that seat. That said, purchasing new seats for their entire fleet in Economy is big $$. I agree that the Y seats in the 763 need replacement, but the 763 can accommodate a 18 in seat width with a regular size arm rest, so with a slim line arm rest (as on the Recaro seat), it may be possible to gain a wider seat and have the perceived extra pitch while maintaining an actual 32 inches. With the new seat, it would be possible to add ten extra seats; we are only talking about 1.5 rows on the 763; this means finding an additional 64 inches to insert the one row, plus place the three seats somewhere in the middle (adjusting a bulkhead would accomplish that). The existing 763 seats are pretty thick, so it is conceivable that the extra 64 inches can be found.

    The Recaro seat that is being used on the Swiss fleet has received very good reviews; however, it is used only on short flights (< three hours). I don't know of any carrier that is using that particular seat on long haul services. On the 738, it will work fine; the only question is PTV and I don't know if that seat can accommodate it. If comfort can be achieved while still adding seats to the aircraft; then by all means it should be done; maximizing unit revenue and minimizing unit cost is the entire game these days.

    Headrests are a must on long haul flights; so I don't see DL removing these from it's fleet. Even on short haul flights, the headrest adds height to the seat which helps the poor tall person who has a bad enough time with his knees to his chin, no need for him/her to get whiplash at the same time.

    I'll do a little digging and see what I find out; if I have anything to report, I'll let you all know. BTW, I agree with Alitalia744.

    baw716
    David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
     
    atlflyer
    Posts: 582
    Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:29 am

    Quoting BAW716 (Reply 44):
    Well, I'm back...

    OK. First, if DL is installing additional seats, it will incur the cost of an additional flight attendant. On short haul flights, this is just plain dumb, since the revenue increase will not offset the additional cost of the f/a. On longer legs, where the unit costs tend to come down, the added flight attendant can be spread across the entire aircraft, so it is possible that the added seats will generate enough revenue to cover the cost of the f/a and generate the margin target they are attempting to reach. So goes the theory.

    Now, DL is installing PTVs in all it's aircraft, with the exception of, as I understand it, the 763. If this is true, this is really dumb...and I don't believe DL to be stupid in their decision making (unlike other carriers upon whom I have commented on this forum). The Recaro seat built for Swiss does not have the capacity for IFE (IMO), but I might be wrong about that. I have heard good things about that seat. That said, purchasing new seats for their entire fleet in Economy is big $$. I agree that the Y seats in the 763 need replacement, but the 763 can accommodate a 18 in seat width with a regular size arm rest, so with a slim line arm rest (as on the Recaro seat), it may be possible to gain a wider seat and have the perceived extra pitch while maintaining an actual 32 inches. With the new seat, it would be possible to add ten extra seats; we are only talking about 1.5 rows on the 763; this means finding an additional 64 inches to insert the one row, plus place the three seats somewhere in the middle (adjusting a bulkhead would accomplish that). The existing 763 seats are pretty thick, so it is conceivable that the extra 64 inches can be found.

    The Recaro seat that is being used on the Swiss fleet has received very good reviews; however, it is used only on short flights (< three hours). I don't know of any carrier that is using that particular seat on long haul services. On the 738, it will work fine; the only question is PTV and I don't know if that seat can accommodate it. If comfort can be achieved while still adding seats to the aircraft; then by all means it should be done; maximizing unit revenue and minimizing unit cost is the entire game these days.

    Headrests are a must on long haul flights; so I don't see DL removing these from it's fleet. Even on short haul flights, the headrest adds height to the seat which helps the poor tall person who has a bad enough time with his knees to his chin, no need for him/her to get whiplash at the same time.

    I'll do a little digging and see what I find out; if I have anything to report, I'll let you all know. BTW, I agree with Alitalia744.

    baw716

    Look at the link I provided above. It will show you that it can handle PTVs.
     
    positiverate
    Posts: 1543
    Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:19 am

    Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
    I have heard the news that Delta intends on adding 10 more seats to the 737-800s and domestic 767-300s. This will be accomplished through the use of slimmer seats.

    Where did you hear the news? Whose news was it? Was it DL's news? Was it news that you inferred from somewhere else?
     
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    1337Delta764
    Topic Author
    Posts: 4968
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:31 am

    Quoting Positiverate (Reply 46):
    Where did you hear the news? Whose news was it? Was it DL's news? Was it news that you inferred from somewhere else?

    It was announced on Investor Day. Delta has stated that they intend on increasing the capacity on the 737-800s and domestic 767-300s. It is safe to assume that Delta will use slimmer seats to accomplish this.

    Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 42):
    A few months ago, there was an article that talked about new slimline economy seats and how they are now made to recline without intruding on the passenger's space behind you. They mentioned Delta would be installing these on its fleet in the article.

    If the seats that Delta will receive are made from Recaro, then they must be these, because it the only seat with this feature. And they do have headrests. Can't wait to see them...hope Delta doesn't disappoint us!

    Weber also offers such a feature on their new 5850 seats. However, the Weber seats don't appear to be as slim as the Recaro seats. Headrests are optional on the Weber 5850. The Recaro CL3610 looks better IMO.

    Also, I wonder what will the domestic first class seats be like on the new 737-700s? Will they be any different from other domestic first class seats? I hope they have footrests. The domestic 767-400s, ex-ATA 757s and 737-800s (except for the ex-Shuttle aircraft) have footrests in first class. If Delta goes with Recaro for their economy class seats, then maybe the domestic first class seats could be either the Recaro BL4400 or CL4400.

    [Edited 2007-04-02 21:53:28]
    The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
     
    atlflyer
    Posts: 582
    Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:40 am

    If Delta is changing out their economy-class seats on the 738 and 763, then it seems like they would also introduce new First Seats as well. I have not seen a 738 or 763 with PTVs (which they are supposed to get), so it makes sense that Delta is waiting a few more months to put them in with the new seats.
     
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    1337Delta764
    Topic Author
    Posts: 4968
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    RE: Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats

    Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:46 am

    Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 48):
    If Delta is changing out their economy-class seats on the 738 and 763, then it seems like they would also introduce new First Seats as well. I have not seen a 738 or 763 with PTVs (which they are supposed to get), so it makes sense that Delta is waiting a few more months to put them in with the new seats.

    I believe that on the domestic 767-300s, the First Class seats are newer than the economy class seats. I believe that the economy class seats were factory installed, while the first class seats are not the original factory seats. However, it would be nice if the First Class seats were upgraded, with newer features such as footrests, but just because the economy class seats will be replaced doesn't necesarilly mean the same is true for First class.
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