Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
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Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:29 pm

Skyliner Aviation is reporting, that Lufthansa will sign for 60 Embraer 190s soon. No more info available at this point.

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1. That would be then the likely replacement for the B737-500 fleet, at least on European and domestic missions. Same goes for the ARJs and BAe with both Eurowings and LH Cityline and likely Air Dolomiti and Swiss as well with the exception of a sub fleet needed for LCY operations if Embraer isn´t able to certify the 190 as planned for these ops.

2. 60 frames would open up many new opportunities, and, depending on the version choosen, especially into Eastern Europe, specifically all of Russia west of the Ural mountains.

3. It would indicate that Swiss´ E-Jet order would likely be revived as well.

4. Now let´s wait and see how things develop...
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
keesje
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:43 pm

Hardly surprising, I´ve said it before: Embraer is sitting on roses with the E190/195 : no serious competition.

Airlines have no choice replacing F100, BAE146´s, DC9s, etc..

The A318 and B736 are basicly 10.000kg overweight and offer range & operating costs the airlines don´t need for regional services.

Rumors that the dispatch reliability isn´t the best at this moment... it´s hard to choose if you have no options..

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
vfw614
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:51 pm

Well, given that Lufthansa has a sizebale fleet of CRJ700/900s and that the CRJ1000 is now available, a E190 order IMHO only makes sense if the play around with the idea of having some E195 to replace the RJ85/B735 combo, something the CRJ1000 cannot do.
 
HUYfan
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:54 pm

It would seem strange to order the E-Jet aswel as the CR9, there is minimal difference in seating capacity, and with the CRJ1000 coming along, why go for a new family when this development could be suitable?

Regards

Mike
 
DALCE
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:22 pm

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 3):
It would seem strange to order the E-Jet aswel as the CR9, there is minimal difference in seating capacity, and with the CRJ1000 coming along, why go for a new family when this development could be suitable?

If LH orders 60 of them, it wouldn't matter considering fleet commonality.
A subfleet of 60 frames could easily stand on itself.
Would be a great chance for LH aswell as Embraer!
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
Carpethead
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:39 pm

Maybe finally it's the Star Alliance order with the aircraft spreading out to the likes of LH for starters, then LX, OS, BD, SK, LO, OU, etc.
All these airlines could use a 100-seater for replacement and growth.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:33 pm

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 2):
Well, given that Lufthansa has a sizebale fleet of CRJ700/900s and that the CRJ1000 is now available, a E190 order IMHO only makes sense if the play around with the idea of having some E195 to replace the RJ85/B735 combo, something the CRJ1000 cannot do.

I'm rooting for the E195 too as a B735 and Avro replacement, since LH's C-class requires an empty seat between C-pax on aircraft with 3x3 seating. On aircraft with 2x2 seating, like the CRJ and E-jet, 10 C-pax means 10 seats next to them go empty. Thus the CRJ1000 and E190 might be too small @ 100 seats, while the E195 can have 114 seats at least...

I would love to see the CRJ1000 with LH CityLine. In other threads I have seen the argument that the CRJ1000 cabin is too long @ 25 seat rows, but the 100-seat E190 also has 25 rows while the E195 has up to 30 rows, and if both the CRJ and E-jets board and deplane through door L1 all the time, then there is really no difference. I have no problem walking quickly down the 40 cm wide aisle on the CRJ, and LH customers are already used to the CRJ900 which will only have three seat rows less than the CRJ1000.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
PADSpot
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:10 pm

First RJ-85 and B735s are not yet due to be replaced. It would be at least surprising if LH ordered E-jets, but if it happens it happens for cargo capacity which has always been important to LH. Pax-wise the CR-1000 could replace the the RJ-85 and B735 and for the sake of fleet commonality it would also be beneficial to order CR-1000 instead, but cargo-wise the E-jet is the better choice. I don't believe in this rumor, until I see it happen. RJ-85s and B735 have been ordered in the early and mid nineties - they have 5-10 years left to serve.
 
vfw614
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:21 pm

Eurowings and Air Dolomiti operate quite a few knackered 146s, so its not only about Cityline 18 or so RJ85s. With those 146s being replaced first and deliveries for sure not starting in 2007, the likely time-frame would suit a RJ85 replacement in five years time well.
 
DALCE
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 6):
I'm rooting for the E195 too as a B735 and Avro replacement

With the oldest 735 : D-ABIA delivered 20.12.1990
and the newest 735 : D-ABJA delivered 31.10.1991

With the oldest Avro : D-AVRO del. 18.10.1994
and the newest Avro : D-AVRR del. 10.12.1997

I have to agree with :

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 7):
First RJ-85 and B735s are not yet due to be replaced

If a 737 type is being replaced, I expect the -300's to go first with the oldest being D-ABXL ( del. 04.12.1986 )
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
CRJ900X
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:16 pm

So does this mean if the rumour is indeed true (order for EMB-190's) that Lufthansa Cityline will not order anymore CRJ900's? I believe that Lufthansa took options out on 12 CRJ900's when they ordered the twelve that are currently in the fleet.

Cheers,

CRJ900X
 
DALCE
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 10):
So does this mean if the rumour is indeed true (order for EMB-190's) that Lufthansa Cityline will not order anymore CRJ900's? I believe that Lufthansa took options out on 12 CRJ900's when they ordered the twelve that are currently in the fleet.

They are options and if taken, they will replace the CR1's not the AR8's or 735's
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
JoKeR
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Lufthansa will sign for 60 Embraer 190s soon.

I wonder if RRJ will see this as a huge blow - perhaps they knew that a western customer was maybe unlikely at this time, before the maiden flight?
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
 
PADSpot
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting DALCE (Reply 9):
If a 737 type is being replaced, I expect the -300's to go first with the oldest being D-ABXL ( del. 04.12.1986 )

 checkmark  I think that process has already begun with the A320 series order last year.
 
DALCE
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 13):
I think that process has already begun with the A320 series order last year.

There are still rumours that these 32S are partly going to be used to start up Italian Wings ( although I doubt this ).
Registrations are already announced for the new orders, but have to check which ones at the office tomorrow.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
LXA340
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Same goes for the ARJs and BAe with both Eurowings and LH Cityline and likely Air Dolomiti and Swiss

Incase this rumour will be true I would imagine that LH would make an order together with LX as a better deal would be made. I think LX is not planning to replace their Avros before 2010 and I read something simmilar regarding the LH Boeing Fleet so from that point it would actually make sense. But those are all rumours so nothing to rely on so far
 
A380CGN
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:46 am

My first thought when hearing about this rumor was, that they might want to use them as a 737-replacement sooner or later. Waiting for a 737-successor by Boeing could be too long, I think.

But it is now a not unimportant question if those E-Jets shall be for Lufthansa or for Cityline. In the strict sense they are two different airlines. And if I remember correctly Lufthansa Cityline had ordered 60 of the ill-fated Dornier 728 back in 2001 or '02. Of course this order got void with Dornier's bankruptcy, but - besides the 12 CRJ900 - LH Cityline never made any new orders to compensate the "loss" of those 728s wich they had obviously planned for any kind of expansion. Maybe they did not order other planes because of the crisis after 09-11, but now they recovered from that and maybe now they want to grow again. What do you guys think about that thought...?

Well, but let's wait until there is something official.....
 
glidepath73
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 15):
think LX is not planning to replace their Avros before 2010 and I read something simmilar regarding the LH Boeing Fleet so from that point it would actually make sense.

I agree. Anyway, AVRO replacement orders have to be announced soon, if LX calculates with delivery times of 3 to 4 years.

Lets see what will happen. I like the E190. Maybe we'll see even E195's? How about E170's for LX? Would it make sense?

Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
LXA340
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting Glidepath73 (Reply 17):
I like the E190. Maybe we'll see even E195's? How about E170's for LX? Would it make sense?

I could imagine to see E170's as well in their fleet, especially if LCY will not be able to take the E190's or for flights with lower capcity needs such as Nuernberg for instance. So let's wait and see, they are in the progress to upgrade the entire Avro fleet with new Reccaro seats as in the European Airbus fleet so for a while we will have them for sure.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:43 pm

The E-Jets fits very well for most operators and as said, no competitors for this size (90 to 110 seats). The comments on mostly operators are very good and a LH order will be nice for my ADR's  Smile

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
DALCE
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RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:31 pm

Quoting A380CGN (Reply 16):
But it is now a not unimportant question if those E-Jets shall be for Lufthansa or for Cityline. In the strict sense they are two different airlines

this would certainly be interesting to see

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 18):
could imagine to see E170's as well in their fleet, especially if LCY will not be able to take the E190's

Can they use the CRJ's into LYC?
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
DALCE
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

RE: Rumour: LH To Order 60 E-Jets

Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:31 pm

Quoting DALCE (Reply 14):
Registrations are already announced for the new orders, but have to check which ones at the office tomorrow

D-AIBA / D-AIBE A319's
D-AINA / D-AINK A320's
D-AISH / D-AISL A321's
D-AISN / D-AISX A321's

D-AIKK / D-AIKO A330-300's
D-AIHS / D-AIHZ A340-600's ( D-AIHS delvered 27/03 )
D-AIMA / D-AIM* A380-800's

This are all the Airbus a/c to be delivered.
No sign of the 747-8i registrations at this point.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.

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