MEACEDAR
Topic Author
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How's Ted Doing?

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:08 am

After a few years of service, we have seen UA's TED on the rise, especially after DL's SONG stopped service. Now tell me, is TED that benefical to UA? If yes, why? How? Why can't they use regular UA flights for the current TED flights?
 
luv2fly
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:37 am

No way of really knowing as UA does not break out actually numbers for investors. So they can spin it anyway they want to.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Evan767
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:57 am

I don't even understand what the point of Ted is. There is nothing special about it.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
OOer
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:11 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 2):
I don't even understand what the point of Ted is. There is nothing special about it.

Thats exacly it, theres nothing special about it. I may be wrong but I believe Ted was started in order for United to compete with LCCs in markets where UA had virturally no "paying" first class demand and in those markets where tields were really low, LAS and MCO come to mind, big leisure markets. So United created Ted to be able to still fly to those markets and make extra dough.

If a flight from DEN-MCO was exacly the same price, on WN and UA...or even if the UA flight was $10 more, which one would you pick? I know that 90% of people would pick the UA flight...why?

1. You get assigned seating
2. You get a TV
3. E+
 
LAXintl
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:19 am

TED was designed to allow UA to maintain a presence in several predominantly leisure markets. From all company indications it has done what it was planned to do and producing positive results.

Check out page 18-19 of this December 2006 UA investors day presentation. According to it the airline has seen year over year positive results with improvement in operating margins on routes since the introduction of TED.

http://library.corporate-ir.net/libr...51/2006InvestorDayPresentation.pdf
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Bicoastal
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:28 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
1. You get assigned seating
2. You get a TV
3. E+

And you get CHANNEL 9!!!

Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
virturally no "paying" first class demand and in those markets where yields were really low, LAS and MCO come to mind, big leisure markets

Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, Phoenix, Cabo San Lucas, Puerto Vallarta are a few more. If the A320 could make it to Hawaii, Ted would work for that market, too. How about a few special Ted 767s?
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jr
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
1. You get assigned seating
2. You get a TV
3. E+

I didn't realize that you got a TV on Ted. Is that a seat back PTV at every seat?

Also, did they really scale back Ted ops at LAX? On a recent trip to LA it just seemed as though the number of Ted aircraft i saw during the average day was a lot less than what it was just a year back there.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
LAXintl
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Jr (Reply 6):
Also, did they really scale back Ted ops at LAX?

TED ops at LAX have esentially always been the Las Vegas service which they continue to.

In addition some of the weekend Mexico service makes use of TED aircraft.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
luv2fly
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting Jr (Reply 6):
I didn't realize that you got a TV on Ted. Is that a seat back PTV at every seat?

No drop down screens through out the cabin.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):
And you get CHANNEL 9!!!

IF the Pilot decides to turn it on for the flight.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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United787
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
I know that 90% of people would pick the UA flight...why?

And Miles, I hate WN's frequent flyer program!
 
Bicoastal
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):
IF the Pilot decides to turn it on for the flight

Almost all pilots do. I haven't been on a United flight in the past two years when it was not turned on. I love it.
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cloudboy
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:09 am

But how does it save UA any money? What makes those operating costs lower because it has a TED logo as opposed to the same plane with a standard UA logo?
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
toltommy
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Thread starter):
After a few years of service, we have seen UA's TED on the rise

On the rise? Didn't TED just get replaced in MIA by regionals? The 170's have E+ and FC, but fewer seats overall. Were those planes put on new TED routes, or returned to mainline?
 
LAXintl
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:16 am

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 11):
But how does it save UA any money? What makes those operating costs lower because it has a TED logo as opposed to the same plane with a standard UA logo?

The CASM are lower on the TED aircraft due to the higher density configuration allowing UA a little more room to compete against LCCs versus using mainline aircraft.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
luv2fly
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 12):
On the rise? Didn't TED just get replaced in MIA by regionals? The 170's have E+ and FC, but fewer seats overall. Were those planes put on new TED routes, or returned to mainline?

They did so well they ran themselves out of the market.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
The CASM are lower on the TED aircraft due to the higher density configuration allowing UA a little more room to compete against LCCs versus using mainline aircraft.

That might be true though you still have crews operating the flights at pay scales the same for UA flights.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
cirrusdriver
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 11):
But how does it save UA any money? What makes those operating costs lower because it has a TED logo as opposed to the same plane with a standard UA logo?

I have never figured this one out myself. Why change the name and configuration of the aircraft? Why not keep the name, change the configuration, save some $$? Oh yea, gotta spend the money or else they will have to give it to us whining employees.........
 
mnevans
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:31 am

The 2 segments I flew on TED were rather disheartening (ORD-PHX, PHX-ORD). First off, the seat I had (non E+) was the most uncomfortable seat I've ever sat in, I HAD to get up at least 5 times during the flight because it was so painful. I guess it may be because I was upgraded to F on my CMH-ORD leg, which I'm sure intensifies the experience. Second, I hadn't eaten anything because I got held up in security and I was in row 29 I believe, and they ran out of every type of snack box, so I resorted to drinking Jack and coke and eating 3 bags of pretzels. Third, the plane was somehow 35 minutes late into ORD, and I had to literally run from the furthest TED gate on 1B to the furthest United Express gate on 1C, and just as I got there the door was almost closed. I pleaded with the lady to let me on, told her I had class the next day, I was upset OSU just lost the national championship and just wanted to get home, and she was nice enough to let me on, as well as (this wasn't necessary at all) upgrade me to F again. So I really can't complain, but the uncomfortable seat really killed me (and I'm only 21 and weigh 155 pounds) I can't imagine someone older and a little bigger trying to sit in one of those seats.

So guess they're doing OK for what they essentially a LCC. The experience was STILL better then any other WN flight I've been on, so props to UniTED for that!

[Edited 2007-04-05 21:32:46]
 
MaverickM11
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting CirrusDriver (Reply 15):
Why change the name and configuration of the aircraft?

It's one of the dumbest moves I've seen an airline pull...twice Silly

Quoting CirrusDriver (Reply 15):
Why not keep the name, change the configuration, save some $$?

Exactly...or just make it a low fare bucket like Tango fares at AC.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Bicoastal
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 14):
They did so well they ran themselves out of the market.

MIA was never a Ted station. United has pretty much written off South Florida. IF United expands to South America, it will be from Dulles. They've left it to American and Delta to compete with JetBlue, Airtran and Southwest to Florida. United/United Express kept enough seats for its business customers and frequent flyers who need to take business trips there and the cruise shippers flying to Ft. Lauderdale, but that's about it.
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flydreamliner
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):

Quoting CirrusDriver (Reply 15):
Why not keep the name, change the configuration, save some $$?

Exactly...or just make it a low fare bucket like Tango fares at AC.

On routes where they were selling almost no seats in first class, adding more coach seats which sell well makes good sense... getting more seats onboard, and the TED brandname to compete with the more stodgy United name on primarily liesure routes.

Honestly, I don't care about Ted one way or the other. If it is working well for UA, good for them... it basically just amounts to having two A320 seating configs, one for standard and one for high leisure routes. From the pay point of view, if you're in Y, it's all the same.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
UA772IAD
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):
If the A320 could make it to Hawaii, Ted would work for that market, too. How about a few special Ted 767s?

I think this would work in some respects. While Hawaii may be a leasure market, it still atracts a lot of frequent flyers/1K/Global service passengers who would not fly UA to the Islands if Y seating was the only choice.

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 11):
But how does it save UA any money? What makes those operating costs lower because it has a TED logo as opposed to the same plane with a standard UA logo?

Because,

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
The CASM are lower on the TED aircraft due to the higher density configuration allowing UA a little more room to compete against LCCs versus using mainline aircraft.



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 14):
That might be true though you still have crews operating the flights at pay scales the same for UA flights.

TED flights are primarily staffed by more junior crews. Pay scales are also based on seniority--including for acting as purser (usually the FA who is purser-qualified and has the lowest seniority). Obviously, the lower your seniority, the lower your pay.
 
firenzelv
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:38 am

Is LAS a TED only airport for United at this point?
 
dc-9-10
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:44 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 20):
TED flights are primarily staffed by more junior crews. Pay scales are also based on seniority--including for acting as purser (usually the FA who is purser-qualified and has the lowest seniority). Obviously, the lower your seniority, the lower your pay.
This is not true at all, anyone in the United system can bid for these flights. Just because it has Ted on the out side does not mean you are not going to get a veteran crew. In fact some routes get very veteran because (like the Mexico routes) it is a simple day trip where you do the two flights and you have your day all done, and you don't have to spend a night in a hotel.

Dc-9-10

Edit: Spelling

[Edited 2007-04-06 01:46:15]
 
deltairlines
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting Firenzelv (Reply 21):
Is LAS a TED only airport for United at this point?

Still a couple of stray SkyWest Embraer 120 flights to PSP and FAT I believe, but LAX, SFO, IAD, ORD and DEN are all Ted-ified. RAR!
 
luv2fly
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:46 am

Unlike what DL did with Song and had separate crews and a different work contract pay scale, UA has not done anything different for its crews working TED flights.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 23):
Still a couple of stray SkyWest Embraer 120 flights to PSP and FAT I believe, but LAX, SFO, IAD, ORD and DEN are all Ted-ified. RAR!

Going TED only on any major city I think is a mistake. To keep premium pax, you need at least some of the flights to be mainline.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
hiflyer
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 18):
MIA was never a Ted station.

It has been only TED for 2 years but there is more need for the 156 seat birds than what MIA is generating so 4 of the six go away later this month. That is not a UA only situation...MIA is pro AA from the Mayor office down thru the airport admin and most legacy carriers at MIA have reduced their skeds tremendously....and no LCC's go in even though there are multiple empty gates just waiting.

Quoting Firenzelv (Reply 21):
Is LAS a TED only airport for United at this point?

Yup...

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 24):
UA has not done anything different for its crews working TED flights.

Nope..there are some minor rule changes on TED and generally the more senior Flt Att's bid away as they prefer longer hauls and longer turns.

There had been speculation that TED would do what JetBlue has done...take out 1 row of seats to go to 150 pax and then only 3 flt att's but nothing yet on that point..still carry 4 while the reg A320's carry 3 for 138 pax.

Re revenue producing...look at the TED markets...most are leisure type where there is a far higher use of miles and more bulk fares. Increasing seats from 138 to 156 help offset that. Business pax still get ecy plus and their miles so that blunts that drama...you can frequently have 30-40-50-60 premiers and up on a single flight.
 
luv2fly
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:56 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 26):
There had been speculation that TED would do what JetBlue has done...take out 1 row of seats to go to 150 pax and then only 3 flt att's but nothing yet on that point..still carry 4 while the reg A320's carry 3 for 138 pax.

I never understood why they did not do this in the first place, as it would be a cost savings right from the get go.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
777fan
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:03 am

I think that for all of the scrutiny that Ted received upon its launch, it's probably done UA more good than bad. As has been beaten to death on this thread, farewise, it goes head to head against LCCs and basically offers a few more perks than competitors (namely WN). Many of the destinations Ted serves are low-cost leisure routes: FLL, LAS, CUN, etc. Yeah, upgrades would be a nice option but frankly, F class on a 3.5 hour flight just isn't worth burning 10-20K miles, IMO. That said, E+ is as good as you're going to get (space-wise) and the A320 is a quiet, clean, comfortable ride. The handful of Ted flights I've been on have been just fine so if it makes UA a few more bucks, more power to them.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):
If the A320 could make it to Hawaii, Ted would work for that market, too. How about a few special Ted 767s?

That's actually a great idea. It'd allow Ted/UA to go head-to-head with the TZ/WN codeshare to the Islands and would cater to the thrifty traveler, provided the CASM was reasonable (not sure the A320 could beat the 757 and 767 there). Hasn't the A320 been ETOPS certified for 240 min? Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong...


777fan
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United_fan
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 23):
Quoting Firenzelv (Reply 21):
Is LAS a TED only airport for United at this point?

Still a couple of stray SkyWest Embraer 120 flights to PSP and FAT I believe, but LAX, SFO, IAD, ORD and DEN are all Ted-ified. RAR!

Yep,you are correct! I must be old,I remember UA putting the 727,DC-10,757,763 and Shuttle 733/35 and the occasional 742/4 into LAS. I have flown on UA 757/727/Ted/Shuttle and 763 to LAS. The 727 was the best (but of course!!).
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
UA747400
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:22 am

You know I haven't really been thinking about it but I have not seen that many, if any at all, TED aircraft at ONT since 2004-05. I recently left from ONT and the only UA plane I saw was a taxiing 757. Has TED left ONT or what?
Ghandi- The best way to find yourself, is to lose yourself in the service of others
 
cloudboy
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:40 am

So then the only difference is the paint on the skin? If they took that same exact aircraft, and simply painted it in United's livery, there would be no other change to affect revenue or costs, right? So why not just do it under United and forget all the costs of having a second brand. There's no requirement that any United flight HAS to have a first class section, right?
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
UA747400
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:43 am

Did TED leave ONT, the reason I ask is that I recently departed from ONT, last Sunday, and only noticed a UA 757 at the UA terminal, what happened?

UA747400
Ghandi- The best way to find yourself, is to lose yourself in the service of others
 
Bicoastal
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:46 am

Quoting UA747400 (Reply 31):
Did TED leave ONT, the reason I ask is that I recently departed from ONT, last Sunday, and only noticed a UA 757 at the UA terminal, what happened?

That 757 Sunday at Ontario was likely UA 1058 HNL-SAN. It diverted to Ontario due to fog in San Diego Sunday morning.
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UA747400
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:48 am

So then what happened to UA at ONT there have been no planes there at any time that I have been there
Ghandi- The best way to find yourself, is to lose yourself in the service of others
 
Bicoastal
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:55 am

United's presence at ONT is Ted to DEN and SFO and United Express to SFO and LAX. I don't believe they have any mainline flights.
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UA772IAD
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:42 pm

Quoting Dc-9-10 (Reply 22):
This is not true at all, anyone in the United system can bid for these flights. Just because it has Ted on the out side does not mean you are not going to get a veteran crew. In fact some routes get very veteran because (like the Mexico routes) it is a simple day trip where you do the two flights and you have your day all done, and you don't have to spend a night in a hotel.

Of course anyone can bid on a Ted trip, but the more tenured FA's (IE the ones with the higher pay scales) hold lines, mostly coveted international ones, such as SFO-SYD or SFO-LHR (3 trips a month). You cannot hold a line on Latin American TED destinations. Latin Am trips might be one of the few instances where you will have a senior crew.

Compare: a domestic line (April 1-15) V. an international line (ICN line holder)
SFO=work day, will operate trips out of the airport
4/1 -
4/2 - ICN
4/3 SFO
4/4 SFO SFO
4/5 SFO
4/6 -
4/7 -
4/8 -
4/9 SFO
4/10 SFO ICN
4/11 SFO
4/12 SFO SFO
4/13 -
4/14 -

Keep in mind that the domestic trips are usually close to 12 hours duty time (SFO-SNA-DEN-PHX-ORD-SFO, with a 5:53 AM report time and a 3:47 PM arrival) .

The fact is, because of seniority, most junior flight attendents will be flying domestic narrowbodies. TED is a big player in this market at UA.
 
hiflyer
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:22 pm

One more thing on crews forgot to add before....they don't fly TED all day in a lot of cases...ie they may start out on a 2 class 319 and then move over to a TED for a segment...or vice versa. I have seen flt att patterns where they fly their first leg as part of a 767 crew and then TED. Pilots also...they stay within type but move thru the day from nonTed to Ted flts.
 
luv2fly
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 36):
Of course anyone can bid on a Ted trip, but the more tenured FA's (IE the ones with the higher pay scales) hold lines, mostly coveted international ones, such as SFO-SYD or SFO-LHR (3 trips a month). You cannot hold a line on Latin American TED destinations. Latin Am trips might be one of the few instances where you will have a senior crew.

Bottom line is anyone can and does work TED flights. A slew of senior FA's also like being home and do take domestic flights for that reason.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 18):
MIA was never a Ted station. United has pretty much written off South Florida. IF United expands to South America, it will be from Dulles. They've left it to American and Delta to compete with JetBlue, Airtran and Southwest to Florida. United/United Express kept enough seats for its business customers and frequent flyers who need to take business trips there and the cruise shippers flying to Ft. Lauderdale, but that's about it.



Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 26):
It has been only TED for 2 years but there is more need for the 156 seat birds than what MIA is generating so 4 of the six go away later this month. That is not a UA only situation...MIA is pro AA from the Mayor office down thru the airport admin and most legacy carriers at MIA have reduced their skeds tremendously....and no LCC's go in even though there are multiple empty gates just waiting.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
MaverickM11
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 20):
TED flights are primarily staffed by more junior crews

It's really just a shell game...put a few more seats on the A320s flying your high density leisure destinations (that were probably all making money before anyway) and staff them with junior crews and poof it's making money! There's no benefit. UA has just shuffled costs around so that one tiny portion of its business looks more profitable. It makes zero sense economically.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 26):
There had been speculation that TED would do what JetBlue has done...take out 1 row of seats to go to 150 pax and then only 3 flt att's but nothing yet on that point..still carry 4 while the reg A320's carry 3 for 138 pax.

That's the last thing UA should do. If anything they should cram as many seats on those A320s as possible since UA pax are much higher yield on average than anything B6 could hope for and would pay for that extra flight attendant many times over.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
halls120
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 10):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):
IF the Pilot decides to turn it on for the flight

Almost all pilots do. I haven't been on a United flight in the past two years when it was not turned on. I love it.

I've just completed a travel swing which involved 2 Ted and 6 mainline UA flights - one international - over the past 8 weeks, and Channel 9 was turned on for each flight. The purser or Captain made a point of mentioning it, in fact. I wonder if a "suggestion" has been made to flight deck personnel that it is good business to have it turned on?

Quoting 777fan (Reply 28):
The handful of Ted flights I've been on have been just fine so if it makes UA a few more bucks, more power to them.

I fly IAD-TPA frequently, and from a passenger standpoint, Ted beats the hell out of the competing US DCA-TPA nonstop.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
emseeeye
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 26):
There had been speculation that TED would do what JetBlue has done...take out 1 row of seats to go to 150 pax and then only 3 flt att's but nothing yet on that point..still carry 4 while the reg A320's carry 3 for 138 pax.

I think UA should just buy out B6 and keep the Jetblue name. Repaint all TED aircraft in Jetblue colors and operate Jetblue in the same manner as Ted. Keep all combined routes. Instant expansion for B6 and UA could use the Jetblue name for all Ted operations.
 
777fan
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RE: How's Ted Doing?

Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 40):
I wonder if a "suggestion" has been made to flight deck personnel that it is good business to have it turned on?

I think that in 25+ years of flying UA, I can only remember a handful of flights in which channel nine wasn't turned on but yes, I've noticed that flight crews (FAs, Captains, and FOs) seem to tout channel nine nowadays. Why other carriers with some semblance of IFE haven't offered this product is beyond me. As most a.netters will attest, it's one of the great things about flying UA.

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 41):
think UA should just buy out B6 and keep the Jetblue name. Repaint all TED aircraft in Jetblue colors and operate Jetblue in the same manner as Ted. Keep all combined routes. Instant expansion for B6 and UA could use the Jetblue name for all Ted operations.

Yeah, right. What would you do with the interior of the aircraft? Union/non-union employees? Where's the money going to come from? I'm sure B6 will just rollover, especially when they just began JFK-ORD service after a rather protracted fight with everyone at O'Hare. You'd have a subfleet that's completely different than the mainline. The list of reasons as to why that will never happen would take up more server space than a.net could ever hope (or afford) to acquire. As it stands, Ted is essentially UA, minus the dozen or so first class seats, and is designed to serve select leisure destinations (vice business travel) and that seems to work just fine for UAL corp.


777fan

[Edited 2007-04-06 20:46:10]
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
emseeeye
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:50 am

RE: How's Ted Doing?

Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 42):
Yeah, right. What would you do with the interior of the aircraft? Union/non-union employees? Where's the money going to come from? I'm sure B6 will just rollover, especially when they just began JFK-ORD service after a rather protracted fight with everyone at O'Hare. You'd have a subfleet that's completely different than the mainline. The list of reasons as to why that will never happen would take up more server space than a.net could ever hope (or afford) to acquire. As it stands, Ted is essentially UA, minus the dozen or so first class seats, and is designed to serve select leisure destinations (vice business travel) and that seems to work just fine for UAL corp.

It was a joke. It was meant as a joke. It was written as a joke.

UAL is broke, B6 is still pulling itself up from this last year financially. B6 is non union, UA is union. etc, etc...

Did I mention it was a joke?  Yeah sure
 
mcdu
Posts: 901
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: How's Ted Doing?

Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 11):
But how does it save UA any money? What makes those operating costs lower because it has a TED logo as opposed to the same plane with a standard UA logo?

Ted airplanes have 156 seats. Mainline 320's have a bit less. This gives lower CASM and More ASM.
 
mcdu
Posts: 901
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: How's Ted Doing?

Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 43):
UAL is broke, B6 is still pulling itself up from this last year financially. B6 is non union, UA is union. etc, etc...

Were broke??? Holy cow I did not know that and I work here. I think we have made some money in the past year and if you remove the BK months at the begining of 06 I think it was positive for the year.

Of course B6 is the hero, I saw the papers and read the comments after the Valentines day massacare. What did Conan say, "Jet Blue, the May thru August airline"


Hey both carriers have pluses and minuses, but please keep it to the facts. UA is not broke and B6 is not fixed.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3003
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: How's Ted Doing?

Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 26):
It has been only TED for 2 years but there is more need for the 156 seat birds than what MIA is generating so 4 of the six go away later this month.

It also has to do with the demand for business and first class service that MIA continues to generate. That's why they're putting exPlus-configured E170s on the routes to IAD and ORD. There's also speculation about the return of mainline UA flights to SFO, and maybe even DEN, too.
 
emseeeye
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:50 am

RE: How's Ted Doing?

Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 45):
Were broke??? Holy cow I did not know that and I work here. I think we have made some money in the past year and if you remove the BK months at the begining of 06 I think it was positive for the year.

Well, maybe you are right about 2006 but my company would have made money too if they dissovled pensions also...
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: How's Ted Doing?

Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 37):
One more thing on crews forgot to add before....they don't fly TED all day in a lot of cases...ie they may start out on a 2 class 319 and then move over to a TED for a segment...or vice versa. I have seen flt att patterns where they fly their first leg as part of a 767 crew and then TED. Pilots also...they stay within type but move thru the day from nonTed to Ted flts.

Absolutely. That work assignment I pulled from the SFO domestic bid package: SFO-SNA-DEN-PHX-ORD-SFO has the crews working on a 757, 737, A320, and A320 Ted.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 38):
Bottom line is anyone can and does work TED flights. A slew of senior FA's also like being home and do take domestic flights for that reason.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 39):
It's really just a shell game...put a few more seats on the A320s flying your high density leisure destinations (that were probably all making money before anyway) and staff them with junior crews and poof it's making money! There's no benefit. UA has just shuffled costs around so that one tiny portion of its business looks more profitable. It makes zero sense economically.

I agree on both of these. The point I was trying to make (in a sort of roundabout way) was that the cost of an extra FA is offset by the cash from the extra seats and also the possible offset of having a junior crew.
Its somewhere in UA's FAOM that their philosophy of having more FAs working than the FAA minimum makes the airline appear to care more about Customer service in the passengers eyes- which is why flights are ocassionaly overstaffed.
 
mcdu
Posts: 901
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: How's Ted Doing?

Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 47):

Well, maybe you are right about 2006 but my company would have made money too if they dissovled pensions also...

Disolved one of TWO pension plans. With the bar being set by the LCC's of the world the Legacy's had to change to compete. I don't care for it, but with a 17% B-plan I am OK with the future, as long as we stay in business.

As for you company. Congratulations that you have not shed your pension liability. Hope you can keep it. However, the say UA is broke is misinformed at best, and a lie at worst.

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