vfw614
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And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:53 pm

I was recently travelling on a BA flight from LGW to MLA. Next to me sat a Maltese guy who was playing around with two cell phones all the time and even made a hasty call when we were taxiing for take-off. After approx. one hour flight time when we were about to pass the French coastline near Marseille to continue southeastwards over the Mediterranean, he pulled out his cell phone at cruising altitude, tried to hide it with the help of his jacket and started whispering. I could not believe my eyes and stared at him rather perplexed. Realizing that I had noticed what he was doing he hastily stopped whatever what he was doing (needless to say that he started making calls again as soon as we had touched down at Malta while we were still on the runway - sometimes I really wonder how mankind has managed to survive for thousands of years without these b***** cell phones....).

I am not really into all these technical things, so that's why I am asking: Would it be possible to make a cell phone call at cruising altitude? I always thought that transmission is not good enough to actually make calls from such an altitude, even if one is above an area with lots of transmitters.

While I have enjoyed seat neighbors who made telephone calls on the ground despite being told not to do so, this was really a first for me. Anyone else with a similar experience?
 
gkirk
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:56 pm

Just think yourself lucky, he could have pulled something else out  scared 
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Norcal773
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:05 pm

What a dumba$$! People like those need to be banned on an airline because per a 737 pilot from Turkey on this forum(can't remember the username), they can really screw up with the aircraft transmissions.  irked 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:09 pm

I actually do remember, on one occasion, accidentally leaving my cell phone on for a flight from Fort Lauderdale to Charlotte. About the only damage that was done as a result was the battery on the cell phone being just about used up.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
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TK787
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 2):
737 pilot from Turkey on this forum

That is Pilotaydin former 734, current 738 pilot for TK:
For God's Sake, Switch Off Your Damn Cell Phones.. (by Pilotaydin Jan 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2007-04-08 15:11:34]
 
stylo777
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 2):
737 pilot from Turkey on this forum(can't remember the username),

it is pilotaydin and yes in Turkey this is widely done by our stupid civilization or people. I can't understand what is going on in their brains in such moments.

My SonyEricsson has a flight mode. The manufacturer says that the cell phone could be switched on during the flights only to use for example the directory, hear music, play... I didn't use it yet and I'm a little bit afraid of that. Did anybody already used this function? Is it really safe?
 
BrianDromey
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Vfw614 (Thread starter):

I am not really into all these technical things, so that's why I am asking: Would it be possible to make a cell phone call at cruising altitude? I always thought that transmission is not good enough to actually make calls from such an altitude, even if one is above an area with lots of transmitters.

It is generally accecpted that modern, digital GSM or 3G moblies dont interfere with the aircraft systems, unless the phone is literally in the avonics bay, and ringing. I believe the main problem with them is they "hop" from mast tower to mast tower, due to teh high speed of the aircraft. Mobile phone operators do not like this happening, as it takes up quite a lot of their transmitting power, and causes problems with other calls which are already being carried on teh ntework.

Airlines like Emirates, Air France and Ryanair are all close to having systems certified so that mobiles can be used in flight. The difference is that they will make money on it from so called "roaming charges"

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
TSS
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:19 pm

On my one-and-only flight departing LAX, the Captain had to make the "Turn off all electronic devices" announcement and have the F/As walk up and down the aisle telling individual pax to to hang up and turn off their cell phones three separate times before we could even pull away from the gate.  gnasher 

I can only assume some of those same pax went right back to talking on their cell phones as soon as the F/As were busy doing other things.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:25 pm

Think of it this way: cell phones are as ubiquitous amongst the flying public as wallets. The statistical odds are very likely that a number of cell phones are powered on during any given flight, whether in a pocket or in baggage. If the interference caused by cell phones was significant, there would be an overwhelming body of evidence by now.

Aviation simply operates under a better safe than sorry principle (not that there's anything wrong with that), and has chosen to blackout all transmitting devices than conclusively determine if cell phones are a danger to the aircraft or not.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:25 pm

Try Qatar Airways ex DOH, I think I'm the only one who switches the mobile off Sad
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vfw614
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Ce

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:32 pm

People leaving their cells on accidentally happens all the time, I guess. And of course it can happen then that someone tries to call them (which is no excuse in the first place, of course).

What I found rather surprising was that this guy was actually making (or trying to make) a call rather than being called by someone from the ground, apparently because he had noticed that we were about to head for the open sea where no transmitters would be available until landing at Malta. He had switched off both his cell phones immediately before take-off at LGW when I gave him a rather irritated look for the first time. So apparently he had switched it on again at crusing altitude.

I really do not understand why people are so addicted to their cell phones. They are a pain, and I am more than happy to be able to switch it off whenever I can to make sure that I am not available for everbody at any time.
 
777236ER
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 6):
It is generally accecpted that modern, digital GSM or 3G moblies dont interfere with the aircraft systems

Wrong.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 6):

Airlines like Emirates, Air France and Ryanair are all close to having systems certified so that mobiles can be used in flight. The difference is that they will make money on it from so called "roaming charges"

You might want to tell the regulators that.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Speedbirdie
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:48 pm

What shocks me Vfw614 is that rather than writing your experience on here, you did nothing at the time to stop the offender trying to make calls.
Try summoning the help of an FA next time. I regulary go sweeping my cabin for people using their mobile phones, even after we have landed. If people do not switch off their mobile phones whilst I am standing there, I will not hesitate to take them off their person.
Reminder : It is AGAINST the law to be using mobile phones whilst flying and most FAs like myself will gladly tell passengers so, or as I said, if necessary, remove them from passengers until engine shut down.
Never give up..
 
aileron11
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:51 pm

Does anybody know if a cell phone can get a signal that high in the sky? Any thing over 20k is like 4 miles high and we all know planes fly higher when at cruise, so how can a signal reach that high.
Jersey Lou
 
NASBWI
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 5):
My SonyEricsson has a flight mode. The manufacturer says that the cell phone could be switched on during the flights only to use for example the directory, hear music, play... I didn't use it yet and I'm a little bit afraid of that. Did anybody already used this function? Is it really safe?

Yes, it's perfectly safe once the transmitter is turned off. That's really the "magic" no-no word when it comes to cell phones. After that, it's just an electronic device. Thing is, for takeoff and landing, it needs to be off anyway, right?  wink 
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vfw614
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting Aileron11 (Reply 13):
Does anybody know if a cell phone can get a signal that high in the sky? Any thing over 20k is like 4 miles high and we all know planes fly higher when at cruise, so how can a signal reach that high.

That's what I was interested about as well.

Quoting Speedbirdie (Reply 12):
What shocks me Vfw614 is that rather than writing your experience on here, you did nothing at the time to stop the offender trying to make calls.

It is not as if I had watched what was going for a longer period of time. It was a late evening flight and after dinner, everybody in my area was having a nap. I only woke up because of this whispering and it took me a couple of moments to realize what was going on. This guy switched the cell phone off as soon as he had realized that I had noticed it. As we were heading for the open sea, there was no chance he could have used it again. So I did not see the point why I should have made a big deal about it, particularly as I did not know (and still do not know) if he could have actually made a call. If he had used it again in flight, I certainly would have called a F/A. At this point, what should have happened if I had called a F/A? The F/A would have told him to stop using the cell phone. This he had already done when I looked at him rather annoyed. Obviously it was no news to him that he was not supposed to use his cell phone, so no need for a F/A to explain that to him. And I doubt that British Airways would have made sure that he was met by police on arrival in Malta....
 
Olympus69
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:57 am

I guess it"s OK if your flight has been hijacked. (United flight 93). One of the rare occasions when using a cell phone in flight was useful.
 
BA787
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 5):
My SonyEricsson has a flight mode. The manufacturer says that the cell phone could be switched on during the flights only to use for example the directory, hear music, play... I didn't use it yet and I'm a little bit afraid of that. Did anybody already used this function? Is it really safe

I have a phone like this as well

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 14):
Yes, it's perfectly safe once the transmitter is turned off. That's really the "magic" no-no word when it comes to cell phones. After that, it's just an electronic device. Thing is, for takeoff and landing, it needs to be off anyway, right?

Ah yes but...

On a flight in early February with BY, a specific announcement was made condemning these specially equipped mobiles to still be fully turned off, no compromises. In fact the F/a was quite severe about this.

Makes me think the industry is still skeptical, maybe not to the technology, but the incompetence of passengers who may switch their phones on fully, and therefore the transmitter which causes the problems, by mistake, or disguises their doing this by saying: "Its on flight mode"
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
If the interference caused by cell phones was significant, there would be an overwhelming body of evidence by now.

Aviation simply operates under a better safe than sorry principle (not that there's anything wrong with that), and has chosen to blackout all transmitting devices than conclusively determine if cell phones are a danger to the aircraft or not.

Actually... they really can interfere... I've had it several times... I've had one flight where the captain and I kept hearing a buzzing in our headsets, pretty loud... and he had to have the f/a go up and down the cabin to make sure everyone turned the phone off.... In addition, while it is allowed to be used... I've had it at one point where we were on the j-line taxiing into the gate and the capt. and I heard the actual ringing over our headsets of a person's phone in the back... we both were confused at first and thought it might be one of our phones accidentally left on.. but after a quick check, it wasn't ours....

From everything I've heard though, not all cell phones cause the problems only certain ones.. and i can't remember which..

Chris
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
GBan
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 5):
My SonyEricsson has a flight mode. The manufacturer says that the cell phone could be switched on during the flights only to use for example the directory, hear music, play... I didn't use it yet and I'm a little bit afraid of that. Did anybody already used this function? Is it really safe?

Flight mode is perfectly safe.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 6):
It is generally accecpted that modern, digital GSM or 3G moblies dont interfere with the aircraft systems, unless the phone is literally in the avonics bay, and ringing. I believe the main problem with them is they "hop" from mast tower to mast tower, due to teh high speed of the aircraft. Mobile phone operators do not like this happening, as it takes up quite a lot of their transmitting power, and causes problems with other calls which are already being carried on teh ntework.

This is as wrong as anything can be.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 6):
Airlines like Emirates, Air France and Ryanair are all close to having systems certified so that mobiles can be used in flight. The difference is that they will make money on it from so called "roaming charges"

The difference is that the "tower" will be in the aircraft, thus preventing cell phones transmitting at high energy levels.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 15):
So I did not see the point why I should have made a big deal about it, particularly as I did not know (and still do not know) if he could have actually made a call.

Trying to make a call when it is not possible can be worse than making a call when it is possible, since the cell phone will try to connect to a tower with the transmitter at full power.
 
flyf15
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:37 am

I'm an airline pilot. If there is a cellphone on, I can often hear it in my headset... the same static-y clicking noise that you often get if your cellphone is near a speaker/stereo. Its annoying as heck.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:40 am

Flyf15... I agree.. it's extremely annoying!!!! nothing like having to listen to the static for 3 hours nonstop... It's great when the offender gets off and the ride back is normal and quiet...
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
flyf15
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Ce

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:40 am

I'm an airline pilot. If there is a cellphone on, I can often hear it in my headset... the same static-y clicking noise that you often get if your cellphone is near a speaker/stereo. Its annoying as heck. Its got to do the same kind of stuff to navigation signals. It has been argued before that most passenger cellphones aren't anywhere near the cockpit and won't cause disturbances. But, we have systems throughout the aircraft. If you're sitting forward of the wing on the CRJ, you're sitting on top of our avonics bay. Also, if your cellphone is in an overhead compartment, its a foot away from the top of the fuselage, where many of our antennas are.

Plus, who really wants to listen to 50 people all try to have cellphone conversations at once in a small confined space for hours and no way to leave? Additionally, your cellphones aren't going to work that high in the air, or over most of the places we fly (there is still a huge part of the US... everywhere except cities... that isn't covered by cellphone service), or at the altitudes we fly at.
 
Wanderer
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 3):
I actually do remember, on one occasion, accidentally leaving my cell phone on for a flight from Fort Lauderdale to Charlotte. About the only damage that was done as a result was the battery on the cell phone being just about used up.

I switched my cell phone off when I flew to the States last year. On the return journey, the phone was switched off again and put in my luggage to be checked. On arrival at Gatwick and once out of the airport, I got the phone out to make a call. It was on. It must have been knocked and accidentally switched on while in my checked bag when being loaded - it was one of those that was too easy to switch on and off. Next time, I'll remove the battery as well.
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Ce

Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 1):
Just think yourself lucky, he could have pulled something else out

Was that really necessary?  Wink

I remember one time on a DL MD-88, ATL-CHS, completely full flight, the FA came down the isle 3 times asking people to please turn off various electronic devices. When there were still people using cell phones after the fourth walk down the isle he got the lead FA. Then they both walked down the plane very slowly looking at every single passenger. After the pax finally put away their crap we took off. It's just stupid that some passengers have to be so selfish. They make the whole crew's jobs quite a bit harder.
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
airforum
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 17):
Makes me think the industry is still skeptical, maybe not to the technology, but the incompetence of passengers who may switch their phones on fully, and therefore the transmitter which causes the problems, by mistake, or disguises their doing this by saying: "Its on flight mode"

I'd say the biggest problem to the FA's is that they can hardly explain to a passenger that his/her phone may no be used because it has no flight mode, while other pax do have a cell phone with flight mode and are allowed to use it mid-air.

Plus, they would need a list with all types of cell phones and use that to decide wether you may use the phone or not. That's probably why they prohibit the use of cell phone to everyone.
What goes up, must come down. Let's hope the sky never went up.
 
AviationAddict
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:24 am

According to the pilots at my station (9K - BOS) most cell phone calls aren't an issue, but on a occasion the phone transmission will create a sort of buzzing noise in the crew headphones. Most of the times it's just a nuisance, but if the interference is strong enough it could completely block out all the radio transmissions.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 10):
People leaving their cells on accidentally happens all the time, I guess. And of course it can happen then that someone tries to call them (which is no excuse in the first place, of course).

As I said, it does the most damage to the battery...remember, the phone uses more battery trying to find a signal than it does when it already has a signal.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
XJetflyer
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:00 am

Some people need a reality check. What is so important that a person feels they need to call someone from the airplane during flight? I remember when the pay phones came out on planes and I had a lady talk on that thing from Houston to Las Vegas, it was a nightmare to say the least!

I understand we live in a technology age and some people think the airlines are lacking in this department. I kind of agree.
My hope is there will never be cell phones allowed on flights because of the noise it would cause. Like my wife says, it would be like a thousand bees around you.

Now I know some don't care for computers either, but I think internet access is the way to go. Yes the typing can get to you at times, but it is much better than cell phones. Most of my business is done by email and fax anyway. My faxing is done through our email system. I can operate everything from my very small laptop. This would allow people to communicate if they wish to.

I think safety and whatever the pilot needs to fly the plane with no disturbance is a must! People are ruder than ever before it seems. People have no consideration for their surroundings it seems. I think flying on a plane as a passenger comes with some responsibility. I also think the airlines must have strict enforcement of rules when it comes to the safe flying of the aircraft.
 
vlada
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 26):
Most of the times it's just a nuisance, but if the interference is strong enough it could completely block out all the radio transmissions

Isn't this enough to ban the mobile phones usage from aircraft altogether?

I would not want pilots on my flight to loose their radio communication just because some idiot forgot/didn't want to turn off his mobile phone.

It is an often seen sight on JAT and Montenegro Airlines flights: rarely do the passengers turn their mobiles off without a specific warning from the F/A's (or other passengers). And ALL of them are turning the phones on as soon as the plane touches down. Most probably, that's the case all over the place.

Also, did you notice one thing: passengers are often embarrassed to warn the d...heads that are trying to use cell phones during flights. I've had a problem with a co-passenger last year on a flight from Athens, where he tried for an hour to get a signal on his mobile. After my colleague and I have politely asked him to turn it of a few times, I've had to resort to a much more explicit language, and he has finally turned it off. It was an embarrassing situation for all of us, except the Olympic's F/A's, who did not say a word during the whole time.

Regards,
Vlada
 
jetjeanes
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:07 am

Ive tried a couple differnt carriers at one time at 30,000 and cannot get a signal,,, on a cross country flight never did get a signal, so aparrantly we were to far from the towers.... now what kinda phones do these people use,, a tower can only be recieved so far away. If the nearest cell tower to me is 6 miles im not going to get a signal,, especial jumping towers at 400 miles and hour.. it would have to be some sattelite phone
i can see for 80 miles
 
socalfive
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Ce

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:08 am

One very rainy, low visibility day on short final into SAN Rwy 09 some moron across the isle from me had his cell phone ring, he answered it and went off on a tangent style conversation. As soon as we were firmly planted on the runway and slowed almost to a stop I asked him if he thought his insurance would cover the expense for a team of surgeons to get a cellphone out of the ass of an idiot because it was about to be rammed up his as deeply as my long very arm could reach; he sheepishly shut it off without even saying goodbye.
 
N243NW
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:17 am

Thursday morning, upon landing in MKE (in an EMB-140), the F/A made the customary announcement as we vacated the active. As soon as the P/A was switched on, we could all hear the classic buzzing sound caused by cell phone interference through the cabin speakers. I looked to my right and the idiot businessman sitting in the other window seat had just turned his phone on during the landing roll. I remember thinking that as a pilot I could never imagine the level of annoyance created by cell phone interference during final approach and rollout (winds were gusting from 18-27mph at the time, and we had a heck of a crosswind).

I can attest to the fact that cell phones DO cause interference with aircraft systems, as Pilotaydin has demonstrated. It's so annoying that we live in a society nowadays that is mainly composed of selfish idiots that whine when one of their simple "rights" has been taken away in the name of safety.  Angry

-N243NW
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:26 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 31):
One very rainy, low visibility day on short final into SAN Rwy 09 some moron across the isle from me had his cell phone ring, he answered it and went off on a tangent style conversation. As soon as we were firmly planted on the runway and slowed almost to a stop I asked him if he thought his insurance would cover the expense for a team of surgeons to get a cellphone out of the ass of an idiot because it was about to be rammed up his as deeply as my long very arm could reach; he sheepishly shut it off without even saying goodbye.

awesome!! we almost killed someone that almost killed us out of ADA as TK 787 posted.....cell phones do interfere with the flight instruments....if anyone doesn't believe me i can retell my horrible story that involved 6+ phones onboard a 737-400 a couple months back.....

it's terribly false that cell phones need to be near the cockpit....that's BS...the wires in an a/c are thousands of meters long and run everywhere, for lighting, for FCC signals, for servos...everything, everywhere....and if it just so happens it clicks into the damn frequency or whatever the technical term is...you're in trouble.....i didn't like climbing out on a locked MCP panel, conflicting Flight Director and frozen throttle handle for almost 30 mins because some idiot was playing games with infre red or blue tooth or whatever it was...and oh yeah, our destination was CAT II.....

if you want to know how sensitive electronic items are...here is a story...
when an a/c vacates the runway at the END, it parallels the localizer transmitter for that runway, so if you're on apporach to the field on a calm day, around 1000 feet you;ll feel the a/c roll left for 5 seconds, then roll back around, that's the VOR/ILS receiver going nuts and autopilot trying to follow it, on some occasions, such as mine 2 nights ago, coming in from BRU, the a/c infront of us turned so damn slow, we went over 15 degrees off course and when that happens the 737 autopilot disconnects, even in the 800....so see how sensitive things are in this field...so think about a few cell phones being INSIDE the damn airplane and how much damage they can do...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
vfw614
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:31 am

Hmmm, OK, so I gather that flying over reasonably populated areas (i.e. those with a good coverage of transmitters) it is possible to make a cell phone call from a plane at cruising altitude ?

With my very limited technical knowledge my understanding is that those different modes involve a different intensity of interference. A guy using his cell phone could...

a) simply be playing around in the "non-transmitting" mode
b) be trying to pick up a signal
c) have picked up a signal without actually making a call
d) be making a call

All alternatives just as bad ?
 
socalfive
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 33):
the wires in an a/c are thousands of meters long and run everywhere, for lighting, for FCC signals, for servos...everything, everywhere....

Exactly, and you can almost bet your last dollar that SOME DAY there will be a CAT II or CAT III approach where an accident will occur because of an idiot on a cell phone electronically interfering at a critical moment. THEN, some stringent rules will be implemented. I swear to God, as busy an individual as I am, I can last however long a flight is to talk to someone. In fact, it's a break for me, a flight is an escape from the frigging rigors of life, but there's so many of these idiots that can't last a second without having that damned thing plugged into their very stupid head.
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 6):
It is generally accecpted that modern, digital GSM or 3G moblies dont interfere with the aircraft systems, unless the phone is literally in the avonics bay, and ringing.

It isn't

Quote:
I believe the main problem with them is they "hop" from mast tower to mast tower, due to teh high speed of the aircraft. Mobile phone operators do not like this happening, as it takes up quite a lot of their transmitting power, and causes problems with other calls which are already being carried on teh ntework.

What you believe is not accepted by the regulatory authorities worldwide.

Quote:
Airlines like Emirates, Air France and Ryanair are all close to having systems certified so that mobiles can be used in flight. The difference is that they will make money on it from so called "roaming charges"

The REAL difference is that the aircraft concerned will carry specific equipment for routing calls from/to mobiles through a specially designed transceiver on board which will have been tested and shielded to protect any vulnerability in the aircraft's comms or nav systems.
 
flybyguy
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:32 am

I don't understand why people need to use cell phones aboard aircraft anyway... what's wrong with the seatback phones? If your call is so important... those would work. Or even better yet if cell phones are allowed to be used on aircraft there should be designated calling areas, just like smoking sections in the old days. However, from what Pilotaydin says having 1/3 of the passengers on board at any given time making mobile phone calls will be disasterous.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
MCOflyer
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 35):
that can't last a second without having that damned thing plugged into their very stupid head.

Very true and I recommend stricter laws for cell phones. I feel bad for you pilots out there with annoying cell phone pax.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
tjo099
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:32 am

RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:25 am

I have done many jumpseat-trips in the cockpit of 737s, A320 and MD's and at sevreal of the trips have a cellphone been lying around in the cockpit. I asked a captain why he doesn't turn it of. He said that if only 1 or 2 of have a cellphone on it's okey. But think what would happend if 148 persons used their cellphones. So from thte conversation with the captains I've spoken with; Only 1 phone on is not a threat to the safety of the plane.

..thomas
 
AviationAddict
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting Vlada (Reply 29):
Isn't this enough to ban the mobile phones usage from aircraft altogether?

Oh I definitely agree with you. I guess I didn't really finish my thought, though. Some people seem to think that cell phone usage on a plane could interfere with equipment in a way that could potentially cause the plane to crash or do other damage. Obviously the potential blocking of communications is bad, but it isn't necessarily a grave situation.

Yet I still agree with you that cell phones shouldn't be used on planes.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 37):
what's wrong with the seatback phones?

The fact that Verizon disconnected them.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
airfrance
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:01 am

RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:29 am

Hey Vfw614 the same exact thing happened to me. I was flying on delta from EWR to SLC. At cruising altitude a lady across the isle was trying to call her boyfriend. I was angry and told her that taking a cell phone out during the flight will be a problem with the electronics on board the plane(remember im only a 15 year old boy talking to a 30 year old women). She didnt answer me back and asked her girlfriend if she had any service on the flight. Finally she turned it off and was finally happy that it was in her pocket again.

The nerve of some people huh.  Angry
Work Hard, Fly Often
 
Smalbany
Posts: 255
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:26 am

It has been my personal experience (me on a land line and my wife on the cell) that cell reception is generallly lost above 10,000 feet in altitiude.

If you were at cruising altitude, it is very unlikely that he would be able to make a call at all.
 
pred02
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:08 am

RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Ce

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 18):
Actually... they really can interfere... I've had it several times... I've had one flight where the captain and I kept hearing a buzzing in our headsets, pretty loud... and he had to have the f/a go up and down the cabin to make sure everyone turned the phone off.... In addition, while it is allowed to be used... I've had it at one point where we were on the j-line taxiing into the gate and the capt. and I heard the actual ringing over our headsets of a person's phone in the back... we both were confused at first and thought it might be one of our phones accidentally left on.. but after a quick check, it wasn't ours....

They interfere with short-range audio electronics, like your in-flight headset. It's like receiving communication while listening to radio at the car. But I really doubt they can cause severe disturbance to airplane navigation, otherwise they would be checking to see everyone has turned them off.

I mean think about it, if you have a full B744 you are bound to have at least one passenger who forgot to turn off their phone. If it was such a safety issue something would happen and they would not allow phones period. I think at one point United or VA tested communications for cell phone usage on planes. It's more the people factor (everyone talking on the phone) during flights than anything else.

That being said, cell phones do not work on planes. They work at low-altitudes. I did a test a few times, put the phone on silent and see at what altitude the cell phone would loose signal. At about 2000-3000ft, I would lose the signal. At 31K there is no signal whatsoever. I mean, the phone losses signal in my basement and that is barely underground. Likewise it does not work at high altitudes.

Makes me think of UA93 and other 9/11 - it doesn't make sense people calling off phones unless those planes were at low altitudes. The Verizon credit card phone thing yes I understand, but cell phone thing no.

[Edited 2007-04-09 01:39:38]
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting Aileron11 (Reply 13):
Does anybody know if a cell phone can get a signal that high in the sky?

If it was a sat phone.
 
CRJ900
Posts: 1945
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:37 am

I flew on a SAS MD80 a few weeks ago CPH-OSL. After taking off from CPH and reaching 10,000 feet the Captain turned off the fasten seatbelt sign and came on the PA saying: "Someone has left their mobile phone on and it must be switched off immediately!" Everyone started rummaging through their carry-ons and purses in the overhead bins, and the guy sitting across the aisle from me was the culprit... he looked a little embarrassed.

The telephone signals must have had some impact on the flight systems since the Captain noticed it... were instrument dials spinning like mad or something...?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
jcf5002
Posts: 176
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RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 18):
From everything I've heard though, not all cell phones cause the problems only certain ones.. and i can't remember which..

From what I know, Motorola phones are especially bad when it comes to interference. I know which one of my friends have Motorola phones and when they're about to get a call because they make a buzzing / chirping sound on any nearby speaker. The speaker itself doens't need to be running either, just power flowing to it or to the system it's connected to eg. my clock radio. If they will do it to a simple clock radio or my computer stereo equipment, then I wonder what it would do to the ultra-sensitive equipment on an aircraft.

I'm not just talking about the radios, but also ADF, VOR and DME equipment which all use a radio signal to aquire a source. In the days of multiple-instrument redundancy and GPS I don't think that a cell phone could singlehandely create a major problem on an aircraft, but I do think that it could distract the pilots unnecessarily during the flight or add to a list of problems that could create a BIG problem. One example that comes to mind is if it screwed with the transmissions during an ILS or VOR approach in IFR mins at night... That's a hard enough approach to begin with, I wouldn't want my "crosshairs" bouncing from side-to-side becuase some a$$hole couldn't wait...

Just my $0.02USD (or 0.015€)

-Jeff
Its always a sunny day above the clouds || CSEL, CMEL, CFI, CFII, MEI
 
Troy
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:10 pm

RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:37 am

Quoting Vfw614 (Thread starter):
he pulled out his cell phone at cruising altitude, tried to hide it with the help of his jacket and started whispering

How do you know he was actually trying to make a call? My phone is pretty clever, i can leave it in flight mode and still whisper voice recordings on it like "this guy next to me needs to mind his own business". Plausible?

- Troy
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: And Then At 37000ft This Guy Pulled Out His Cell

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:42 am

As a former F/A (and current pilot who has talked on a cell phone while flying, pt. 91 of course)


It doesnt do squat.

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!