r2rho
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Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:43 pm

The Association of European Airlines has just released their study on lost baggage in 2006.

Top 10 airlines for losing baggage in 2006 (bags/1,000 passengers):

1. BA -- 23
2. TAP Air Portugal -- 21
3. Lufthansa -- 18.1
4. Air France -- 16.6
5. Alitalia --16.5
6= KLM -- 16.4
6= Luxair -- 16.4
8. Iberia -- 15.5
9. LOT Polish Airlines -- 14.8
10. Finnair -- 14.2

http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2007/T...AVEL/04/04/bt.baluggage/index.html

BA ranks first! I'm pretty sure the new security measures and the terrorist paranoia have influenced in this. Also, IB's low ranking contrasts with the frequent complaints heard from Spanish travellers.

It is important to note that this study only includes the airlines that are members of the AEA. Low-cost airlines are not included for example.

By the way I just discovered the AEA website and it publishes some interesting/useful data & statistics: http://www.aea.be
 
GDB
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:09 pm

It is bad, I'm not going to try and defend it, only that LHR had some pretty bad technical problems with baggage systems last year, BA being the biggest carrier there, takes the main hit.

But, BA's reputation here pre-dates that and the security issues, many of those major DJ's don't fly BA now, as too many of them have had valuble, often irreplaceable, boxes full of records 'lost'.

However, my understanding is that it is not only some LCC's who did not provide data for this study.
VS did not either, what are you hiding Dickie Boy?
 
rootsair
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:13 pm

Quoting R2rho (Thread starter):
6= Luxair -- 16.4

I think this is worse tha BA given the fact LUXAIR has no where a big network as the other airlines have !!!!!  airplane   wave 
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ComeAndGo
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:24 pm

I always fly with BA, and generally speaking the bags arrive, some times a day late. Same for Virgin Atlantic. I've never had a bag disappear without a trace. I'm not quiet sure what you mean by loosing bags. As in never returning, gone for good, or as in arriving tomorrow instead of today. You have to keep in mind that in mid december there was a massive traffic break down at LHR due to persistent fog. My bags arrived 10 days after I had arrived. But that was an exception. Of course the Associations are quick to point out that this weather related incident somehow reflects the performance of BA. The only thing I have to say is that if you connect with any airline in LHR the bags usually arrive even when the connection is short and the carriers are not affiliated with one another (Virgin Atlantic + Bmi). Yet if you have a short connection with Air France at CDG the bags never arrive. Done it twice and twice the bags didn't arrive.
 
ozglobal
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:25 pm

I thought it would have had more to do with the airports used. CDG is notorious for luggage not making transfers between flights, for example, which is more the fault of ADP, or in LHR, of BAA. No?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
andaman
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:26 pm

Only TAP Portugal has lost my baggage. I was warned they have lot of delays and I could miss the connecting flight - and that was exactly what happened, flying LIS-AMS-HEL....
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AlanUK
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:35 pm

It's important to remember that out of the 23 bags per 1000 that BA MISHANDLES (and not loses), 85% are returned to the customer within 24 hours of their flight landing. A figure that is much higher than other airlines in Europe.

Indeed Virgin refused to be included, and so did bmi...

Still the figure doesn't make good press, let's hope Terminal 5 will help. I bet that if LH and AF had to deal with operations spread over different terminals, their figures would be higher too.
 
ZakHH
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:24 pm

These figures surprise me. Especially the bad performance of LH. While I am not happy at all with their overall service performance, I never had a single baggage issue with them in the 7 years I fly them frequently now. Sometimes, I had transfer times of only a few minutes in FRA, but my baggage always made it.

All different story with KL and AZ. My wife flies KL regularly, and had baggage issues with almost 25% of her flights. The KL ground handler here in HAM told us that this is not unusual.

Ok, with AZ, I flew only twice in the past years, but they managed to lose my baggage both times (lose = did not arrive with my flight - I never had a bag fully disappear, to be precise). But okay, 2 flights is not enough to give a full picture.

What I wonder - how much blame goes to the airline itself? Usually, I would imagine that baggage is mishandled at a transfer airport. How big is the influence of an airline to the ground handling agents at transfer airports? And if they are unhappy with their performance, is there really a choice, or are most airports dominated by certain companies?
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adriaticflight
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:58 pm

Last December i was flying with KLM from Amsterdam to Milan and then on with Alitalia (Air Alps) to Zagreb. The onward flight was cancelled due to fog, all operations in Milan were cancelled (the fog was absolutly terrible). After spending the night sleeping on the floor in Malpensa the next day i got rebooked onto Alitalia (from Linate!!) to Rome and then Croatia Airlines to Split. All in all a disasterously long and engergy draining trip. However...when i went to the baggage reclaim area in Malpensa and asked for my bag i was told by a rude Alitalia eployee "No". The reason she said that i could not have my bag, even though i could see it behind her was the fact that it had been checked through to Zagreb and had to go directly to Zagreb. After 15minutes of shouting and generally telling her that it was crazy not to let me have it i gave up. I went to Linate and flew to Rome and then Split without my bag. The next day i got a call from Split airport telling me that my bag had arrived and they would bring it to my door. 1hour later it arrived.
By bag took the route:
Amsterdam-Milan-Zagreb-Split
I look the route:
Amsterdam-Milan Malpensa - Milan Linate-Rome - Split

Has anyone else had occasions when bags cannot be released when connections fail or end destinations change. It seems to me like a very stupid policy, i don't know if its just Alitalia or all airlines do it?

Regards.
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting R2rho (Thread starter):
IB's low ranking contrasts with the frequent complaints heard from Spanish travellers.

No surprise there since Spaniards enjoy complaining about everything (and yes, I am a Spaniard too).
I guess this must be the country with the biggest amount of "cry-babies" and "big-mouths" per square kilometer in Europe (at least).

The statistic doesn't surprise me, although IB's position last year was not good during a few months, but that was mainly due to the initial problems with the new baggage handling system at MAD (about 120 km of conveyor belts among other things). It seems to working fine now.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
sw733
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:14 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 2):
I think this is worse tha BA given the fact LUXAIR has no where a big network as the other airlines have !!!!!

Except that it is per 1000 passengers, so really it is all relative...if it were "total number of bags lost" and Luxair was that high, it would be much worse.
 
Norcal773
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:33 pm

What a surprise! BA coming in number one in losing luggage.  sarcastic 

I bet you they're number one in the world, not only in Europe.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
airbazar
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 9):
No surprise there since Spaniards enjoy complaining about everything (and yes, I am a Spaniard too).
I guess this must be the country with the biggest amount of "cry-babies" and "big-mouths" per square kilometer in Europe (at least).

I always though that award went to the Portuguese (yes, I am Portuguese). I guess that's a special characteristic of most Iberians. It's not coincidence we call you guys "nuestros irmanos"  Smile

TAP near the top of that list is no surprise at all but like it's been said... how much of it is the airline's fault and how much is the fault of the ground handling company?

The biggest surprise to me is AZ being so low on the list. That alone make the list very suspicious to me. I don't know anyone who's never lost a bag when flying with AZ.
 
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TK787
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 12):
The biggest surprise to me is AZ being so low on the list.

And how about TK? For the whole year TK is at #2 behind Air Malta to be the best in the list. For Q4 TK is #1. By the way it is even better if you compare 17 mil pax. TK carried last year, as opposed to 2mil. KM carried. Among the carriers its size TK's performance is stellar.
 
agrflyer
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:23 am

I have just returned from HEL earlier this afternoon on SAS. My routing was HEL - CPH - ZRH with an official connecting time of 45 min in CPH. My bag did not make it due to the short connecting time. It is the second time this happens to me while transiting through CPH.
Fall 2016: ZRH-TLV-ZRH on A3 or LX in Y, ZRH-LCY-ZRH on LX in Y
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ikramerica
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting Adriaticflight (Reply 8):
Has anyone else had occasions when bags cannot be released when connections fail or end destinations change. It seems to me like a very stupid policy, i don't know if its just Alitalia or all airlines do it?

It's a silly policy but it's common. Your bags are cleared for the flights/cities you were booked through, and some airlines will want to keep it that way no matter where you end up yourself. Others are more understanding. Either way, you got your luggage, so it all worked out.

Quoting AGRflyer (Reply 14):
My bag did not make it due to the short connecting time.

45 minutes is short? Yikes.

Maybe USA airports aren't so bad after all. I've only had 2 misconnected bags on USA carriers within the USA in the last 15 years. HA, which put it on the next Kona flight and in the time it took me to get the rental car and go back to the terminal, it had arrived. And AA, which misconnected it on a DFW-FAT flight (ended up in ORD) and they sent it the next day.

I also had one misconnected bag on QF. I flew PER-MEL-SYD-LAX, but they decided on their own to fly the bag PER-MEL-LAX, so they dropped the bag at my front door later that day. No problem at all other than they didn't inform me until after I waited for my bag at LAX and had a representative check it out.
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RDUDDJI
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
45 minutes is short? Yikes.

Maybe USA airports aren't so bad after all. I've only had 2 misconnected bags on USA carriers within the USA in the last 15 years. HA, which put it on the next Kona flight and in the time it took me to get the rental car and go back to the terminal, it had arrived. And AA, which misconnected it on a DFW-FAT flight (ended up in ORD) and they sent it the next day.

Keep in mind, Intra-Europe travel almost always requires PBM, so that adds another layer of complexity. However, the U.S. average number was 8.23/1000 for February. (***It's hard to compare that number though, because U.S. only measures U.S.-U.S. statistics and not Int'l).

Quoting SW733 (Reply 10):
Except that it is per 1000 passengers, so really it is all relative...if it were "total number of bags lost" and Luxair was that high, it would be much worse.

I was going to say the same thing.
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ikramerica
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 16):
(***It's hard to compare that number though, because U.S. only measures U.S.-U.S. statistics and not Int'l)

True, but to match the 15 number for the EU (which is missing VS and others), you'd think USA carriers would have to mishandle 50 or more per 1000 just to up the 8 bag domestic average to an overall 15.

I doubt that's the case. Score one for the USA ground staff!!!
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
sandrozrh
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:02 am

I'm actually surprised that LX doen't rank up there, knowing the problems they still experience with the relatively new luggage system at ZRH. Looks like they finally got their act together and fixed it, well done.
 
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autothrust
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:59 am

I can only confirm that KLM is really poor in baggage handling. I had my experiences. However KLM is still a great airline with a superb service IMO.
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r2rho
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 4):
I thought it would have had more to do with the airports used.

Yes and no. Having a saturated airport like LHR as your main hub certainly doesn't help, and if that weren't enough, the new baggage security regulations have increased the amount of checked baggage by about 25%. But airlines do have a certain responsibility for ground handling... then again a lot of it is subcontracted today. So as usual there are many factors involved.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 9):
No surprise there since Spaniards enjoy complaining about everything

As a fellow Spaniard, I can only second that!
 
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OA260
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:29 am

Im suprised about LOT!!! I have done many connections with them and never had any bags lost. I have even had a few connections where I got to WAW at 1700 and flew out the next morning at 1000 and the bags were kept in WAW and made it on all occassions.

Luxair is more worrying than BA , I agree with the original poster .

As for Air France ...well what is new !!! I know lots of people including myself that have had bags gone missing at CDG. They are a nightmare. Last July a friend of mine went on a tour of Italy and flew DUB-CDG-FCO and 11 of the group of 20 didnt get their bags for 4 days !!!! They had to buy T shirts for the tour. I always here about AF and when they do go missing AF are not one bit nice. If you have to deal with that ''Correspondance'' desk then forget it !!! They should call it ''non respondance'' desk.
 
bastew
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:56 pm

Pretty shocking results for BA.

I guess at least they put their hand up and admit it.

Supplying missing baggage information to the ATUC was not obligatory, and many european airlines (including BMI and Virgin) decided not to supply their figures to the council.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Top 10 EU Baggage Losers - BA Ranks 1st

Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
True, but to match the 15 number for the EU (which is missing VS and others), you'd think USA carriers would have to mishandle 50 or more per 1000 just to up the 8 bag domestic average to an overall 15.

I doubt that's the case. Score one for the USA ground staff!!!

I think the biggest difference is in procedures. I have seen sortation systems in Europe that have these multi-million dollar add-ons like an "Early Bag Storage" system where a simple process would suffice. All-in-all European Baggage Handling Systems are more complex and a few years ahead of the U.S. systems. However, I almost believe the technology is putting some European airports at a dis-advantage when problems occur. They are extremely reliant on the IATA Bag Messaging (BSM's) protocols for sortation. If another airline is not sending BSM's or if there is a BSM host problem it can shut a system down. Most U.S. airlines utilize BSM's, but they also use internal bag messaging for their online sortation. Also, European fallback procedures generally take longer to implement, lack random access to bags stuck in sortation and can result in more delayed baggage. Many U.S. hubs utilize tail-tail transfer procedures (even when they could utilize automated sortation) and it works very well for them.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them

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