as739x
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Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:33 am

So passing through SFO this pass weekend I spoke with my friend at Air Canada. He told me that AC is moving to terminal 3 in October. This will be opening gates 21 and 23 for Southwest. Now I was of the understanding that these gates were Delta's, they were when I left 1 1/2 years ago. None the less, these will be WN gates, right across from Alaska's gates 2o,22, and 24. So initial operations out of 2 gates, WN could operates I'd guess 20 flights?

Any WN personal heard rumors on routes?

ASLAX
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sw733
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:35 am

What are the first routes expected to be? I can guess LAX, LAS, SEA, MDW, PHX...
 
JetBlueAUS
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:38 am

They might have 1 HOU flight too, who knows.
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
copaair737
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:43 am

LAS, SAN, PHX are locks I'd say.
Maybe MDW or DEN.
HOU is another good choice.
I'd really like to see a PVD flight, but I don't think that would happen for a while.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
flyboy7974
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:46 am

Being that UA's highest yield route out of SFO is BUR, I'd think that might be a viable choice. Initially, I'd guess on a 1XMDW, 1XHOU, 4XLAS, 6XLAX, 3XPHX, 5XBUR. Thinking about also what stations have the room for additional flights, SNA is maxxed out, so no SFO flights for them and I was thinking of maybe RNO flights to enable the pacific n.w connections but don't know if SWA really wants to head that way so quickly with their SFO reentry.
 
as739x
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:49 am

I'd actually be surprised they would start SFO-LAX. This route is just so saturated as is. Now I do not rule out SoCal service, just not LAX. BUR would be my guess with only UA operating this segment.

My guess's"

SFO-/

BUR/SAN/PHX/MDW to start

*Hoping for HOU

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
copaair737
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:54 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 5):
I'd actually be surprised they would start SFO-LAX. This route is just so saturated as is. Now I do not rule out SoCal service, just not LAX. BUR would be my guess with only UA operating this segment.

My guess's"

SFO-/

BUR/SAN/PHX/MDW to start

*Hoping for HOU

ASLAX

Got to agree with that. Sounds about right. SFO-LAX is waay saturated, and another carrier might be too much.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
LAXintl
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:44 pm

LAX also has serious facility issues for SWA. Schedules have remained constant at about 110 daily departures for over 5 years now with no real prospects for growth as long as US Air hangs on in T-1.

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 4):
UA's highest yield route out of SFO

Since yield was mentioned here are UA's top yielding CA markets from SFO for 12 months ending Sept 06. (source DOT).

City - Yield Cents
BUR - 42.24
LAX - 36.43
SNA - 35.53
SAN - 29.25
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ONTFlyer
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:24 pm

I don't particularly think that the chances are very high but I hope hope hope that ONT is one of the first destinations in/out of SFO. I know that other airlines have tried this route but maybe WN can put more than 2 RT'S a day in order to appeal all different types of travelers. Myself included. One can hope right?  biggrin 

ONT
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united319
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:37 pm

I could see them operating a high amount of SAN flights over the already saturated LAX flights as previously stated. You can make a lot of connections in SAN that you could make in LAX. Afterall SAN is their 10th largest city in the network on all facetts (sp?) according to their website.
It's Time To Fly
 
as739x
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:58 pm

By the way, where can you find a list of WN citites and their daily flights?

ASLAX
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RayChuang
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:00 pm

Why would WN want to return to SFO? They're already hugely successful at OAK and SJC, so success at SFO is no longer necessary.
 
ONTFlyer
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting United319 (Reply 9):
By the way, where can you find a list of WN citites and their daily flights?

Here's a link to southwest.com that has a list of cities they fly to as well as the top ten airports with the number of daily departures out of those 10.

http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/p...actsheet.html#Top%20Ten%20Airports

ONT
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Sean-SAN-
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:09 pm

BUR would be great... I fly to BUR from the Bay Area every week for work, and I'm forced to goto Oakland because my company won't pay $468 for the rediculous round trip on UA...
 
LAXintl
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:12 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 10):
By the way, where can you find a list of WN citites and their daily flights?

Check out page 13 of the annual report

http://www.southwest.com/investor_relations/swaar05.pdf
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
as739x
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:52 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 14):

Thanks. Well to bad we never met. I'm back to SFO after Thursday


ASLAX
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PVD757
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:20 pm

I'd say LAS, PHX, MDW are locks. SAN and any of the LA area are good bets as well.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
I'd really like to see a PVD flight, but I don't think that would happen for a while.

wow - so would I, but so do I.

do you travel between PVD and SFO often???
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
LAS, SAN, PHX are locks I'd say.

I would say that LAS and PHX are almost definite locks. I'd look at an L.A. airport though for a third. I suppose WN is running out of room at LAX? Somebody mentioned BUR though...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
SANFan
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting AS739X (Thread starter):
AC is moving to terminal 3 in October. This will be opening gates 21 and 23 for Southwest.

Since the possible start-up routes from SFO have been discussed many time before (do a search), I won't bother commenting on that. What intrigues me is the timing (date) of the inaugural of service. I had guessed more like an August start (maybe the 25th, when the next reservations block will open), which has been supported (?) by some rumors here on A.net a month or 2 ago.

The only "official" comment by WN (when the return to SFO was first announced) so far has been:
DALLAS, Feb. 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines today announced its intent to resume service at San Francisco International Airport. The carrier has not released specific service details or a timeline, only saying that it is currently in discussions with the Airport and that it aims to return to the West Bay in a meaningful way in the early fall.
... so I figured late August or September.

Does anyone know a specific date of AC's move at SFO? (And BTW who handles them there -- UA?) I would think WN might start flying a week or so later (to give them time for gate remodeling, etc.) Has anyone seen any work under way in the ticketing lobby yet?

bb
 
PITSpeedbird
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:03 am

Any chance of a PIT transcon -- thoughts?

PITSpeedbird
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as739x
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 18):

Search as been well done there buddy, with no answers. With OCT creeping into the window for WN ticket sales, I'd think they would come out with more then "Hey we are coming back" by now. I'm surprised WN insiders have not heard any rumblings. As least a date on an official announcement. This is the longest time I have seen from announcing a city to announcing routes I have seen WN go.

Maybe I'll get more information when I get back to SFO on the 22nd, and I'll get you a date on the AC move from them.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 19):
Any chance of a PIT transcon -- thoughts?

I would say that unless you are a Southwest "Mega-Station" or within 1.5 hours away from SFO, the likelyhood of you getting service if probably less than 0.5%....

To me, the contenders would be the following:

SAN
OAK
LAS
PHX
MDW
BWI
BNA
PHL
MCO
LAX
ONT
BUR
SEA
SLC
BOI
etc...

I would say almost every station east of the Mississippi not mentioned above should not even think about asking if they are getting service..

But that's just my opinion..
Aiming High and going far..
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 18):
The only "official" comment by WN (when the return to SFO was first announced) so far has been:
DALLAS, Feb. 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines today announced its intent to resume service at San Francisco International Airport. The carrier has not released specific service details or a timeline, only saying that it is currently in discussions with the Airport and that it aims to return to the West Bay in a meaningful way in the early fall.
... so I figured late August or September.

Seeing as Fall does not begin until Sept 21st or so, first part of October seems more likely. WN has began a few cities at in that time frame, ORF comes to mind.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
iahflyer
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
Why would WN want to return to SFO? They're already hugely successful at OAK

Why, OAK is closing down according to another forum, sorry but I forgot which one.
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 21):
I would say almost every station east of the Mississippi not mentioned above should not even think about asking if they are getting service..

But that's just my opinion..

In spite of being the PIT die-hard that I am, I have to concur with your opinion. PIT is not a very strong station right now, but I am sure things will change for the better at PIT. As much as I would love to see WN with a transcon flight at PIT, like PIT-LAX, OAK, or even SFO... I just don't see it happening either.

I pretty much see PIT and PIT-related aviation as a chess match... WN is making their moves regarding which cities to add, given the O&D and its growth, but the airlines already well-entrenched at PIT (US and UA, regarding transcons) are pretty much making moves that appear to be keeping WN in check.

I believe effective this summer, SFO and LAX go to two daily frequencies, and Luketenley stated that UA has weekly 757 service to LAX. Given he receives his info from airport employees, I have to say that his information is accurate... If WN was to start non-stop LAX or SFO service, or OAK service, I would bet that both loads and yields would be low...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
r311music
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 23):
Why, OAK is closing down according to another forum, sorry but I forgot which one.

OAK is most definitely not closing down. Gary Kelly has said he wants the SFO service to coexist with the other two bar area airports. Just like IAD and BWI or LAX, ONT, BUR. Southwest has invested way too much in OAK to close it. On a side note, OAK is now the 5th largest WN station.
confusing use of time
 
skyharborshome
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting ONTFlyer (Reply 12):
Here's a link to southwest.com that has a list of cities they fly to as well as the top ten airports with the number of daily departures out of those 10.

Aww man. Nashville fell out of the top 10.
Fly CHD!
 
SANFan
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 22):
Seeing as Fall does not begin until Sept 21st or so, first part of October seems more likely. WN has began a few cities at in that time frame, ORF comes to mind.

Note that I mentioned the August 25 opening of the next reservation window as an excellent opportunity for WN to unveil a new city's schedules. New service can then be integrated somewhat with existing service, i.e., SAN-SFO-TUS, ABQ-LAS-SFO.

I don't necessarily take WN's use of "early fall" as that defined by the National Geographic or Sky and Telescope!
And where does it say in the thread-starter that AC is moving at SFO in the "first part of" October?
I also indirectly referenced a March thread about the rumor of WN starting SFO-PIT in August; I don't think the city-pair is going to happen but the date is possibly relevant... (Rumors based on misunderstandings often include some correct information.)

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 23):
Why, OAK is closing down according to another forum, sorry but I forgot which one.

Oh come on FLYER, please try to remember. It might even be worth a thread here on A.net.  rotfl 

bb
 
stirling
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 21):
To me, the contenders would be the following:

SAN
OAK

Why would WN fly between SFO and OAK?

DOT Q32006
Rank | Market | Daily Passengers | Average Fare | Average Yield | Average Daily Revenues
1. (SFO) - LOS ANGELES INTL (LAX) 2,907.33 $156.51 $0.46 $455,035.64
2. (SFO) - JOHN F KENNEDY INTL (JFK) 2,313.11 $484.40 $0.19 $1,120,471.39
3. (SFO) - NEWARK LIBERTY INTL (EWR) 1,875.78 $337.08 $0.13 $632,289.94
4. (SFO) - MC CARRAN INTL (LAS) 1,750.67 $144.05 $0.35 $252,182.47
5. (SFO) - GENERAL EDWARD LAWRENCE LOGAN INTL (BOS) 1,715.33 $380.66 $0.14 $652,966.92
6. (SFO) - CHICAGO OHARE INTL (ORD) 1,629.11 $357.41 $0.19 $582,253.46
7. (SFO) - DENVER INTL (DEN) 1,506.67 $251.17 $0.26 $378,425.97
8. (SFO) - SEATTLE TACOMA INTL (SEA) 1,464.00 $203.27 $0.30 $297,591.01
9. (SFO) - (HNL) 1,460.67 $299.32 $0.12 $437,206.73
10. (SFO) - MINNEAPOLIS ST PAUL INTL (MSP) 1,280.00 $279.80 $0.18 $358,148.33
11. (SFO) - HARTSFIELD JACKSON ATLANTA INTL (ATL) 1,238.89 $288.71 $0.13 $357,675.75
12. (SFO) - PHOENIX SKY HARBOR INTL (PHX) 1,104.67 $169.84 $0.26 $187,617.70
13. (SFO) - DALLAS FORT WORTH INTL (DFW) 1,056.00 $346.32 $0.24 $365,710.59
14. (SFO) - DETROIT METRO WAYNE CO (DTW) 1,019.78 $245.58 $0.12 $250,439.58
15. (SFO) - WASHINGTON DULLES INTL (IAD) 898.67 $434.21 $0.18 $390,211.08
16. (SFO) - PHILADELPHIA INTL (PHL) 886.89 $336.33 $0.13 $298,284.09
17. (SFO) - PORTLAND INTL (PDX) 772.67 $159.90 $0.29 $123,545.56
18. (SFO) - (OGG) 749.56 $337.78 $0.14 $253,186.86
19. (SFO) - SAN DIEGO INTL (SAN) 706.89 $255.28 $0.57 $180,454.88
20. (SFO) - GEORGE BUSH INTCNTL HOUSTON (IAH) 704.44 $261.06 $0.16 $183,899.77
21. (SFO) - JOHN WAYNE ARPT ORANGE CO (SNA) 654.00 $177.02 $0.48 $115,772.01
22. (SFO) - MIAMI INTL (MIA) 521.11 $300.24 $0.12 $156,457.18
23. (SFO) - BOB HOPE (BUR) 478.44 $168.79 $0.52 $80,755.24
24. (SFO) - CHARLOTTE DOUGLAS INTL (CLT) 442.22 $242.11 $0.11 $107,066.27
25. (SFO) - GENERAL MITCHELL INTL (MKE) 420.89 $210.57 $0.11 $88,626.28
26. (SFO) - BALTIMORE WASHINGTON INTL (BWI) 412.00 $302.99 $0.12 $124,833.44
27. (SFO) - (LIH) 411.56 $328.41 $0.13 $135,157.47
28. (SFO) - INDIANAPOLIS INTL (IND) 403.78 $219.13 $0.11 $88,478.58
29. (SFO) - ORLANDO INTL (MCO) 400.67 $269.69 $0.11 $108,055.03
30. (SFO) - LAMBERT ST LOUIS INTL (STL) 400.00 $306.84 $0.18 $122,735.45
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FATFlyer
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 28):
Why would WN fly between SFO and OAK?

To get to the other side of the bay, of course. LOL  rotfl 
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
as739x
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 23):

IAHFlyer, well I dont know where you heard this, but WN is not shutting down Oakland. You dont just move +120. SFO will have 2 gates for WN, making SFO a niche city. Why in the world would WN leave OAK?


ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
SANFan
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting SkyHarborsHome (Reply 26):
Aww man. Nashville fell out of the top 10.

Yeah, that pesky MCO has been growing fast for WN!

BNA actually left the Top-10 in the Summer of 2005 as Orlando scooted up the ladder, passing first Nashville and eventually SAN. And, as of May 4, BNA actually will be the #12 station (with 83 departures) behind SMF with 84; SAN will be at #10 with 95 flights and MCO has shot up to 9th place with 108 departures, heading next for LAX's #8 spot!

bb
 
ScottB
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 27):
I don't necessarily take WN's use of "early fall" as that defined by the National Geographic or Sky and Telescope!

Well, you don't have to take it that way, but you can look at past WN city openings for some guidance:

IAD opened 10/5/06.
RSW opened 10/3/05.
ORF opened 10/8/01(or 10/7).
BUF opened 10/8/00.
BDL opened 11/1/99.

From that, I'd be willing to venture that the first week of October is probably a good guess as to when WN's service at SFO will commence. Moreover, the announcements of flights and destinations for the three most recent "early fall" additions all happened in mid- to late-July, so I'd also expect to see the "unveiling" of WN's SFO schedule to happen then.
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 29):
Quoting Stirling (Reply 28):
Why would WN fly between SFO and OAK?

To get to the other side of the bay, of course. LOL

I completely missed that one! Yeah! Good question there Stirling...

FATFlyer, yours was also a funny post!  bigthumbsup 

Why would WN... "FLY" between SFO and OAK? how about because traffic on 480 and I-80 sucks! Big grin
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
SANFan
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 32):
From that, I'd be willing to venture that the first week of October is probably a good guess as to when WN's service at SFO will commence.

There certainly is that history of early-October start-ups, Scott, and that is a good time (after the summer rush) to be able to throw extra resources (people, equipment, money, marketing) at a new station. If it hadn't been for the other things I mentioned, I would have figured early Oct for sure. (We know that WN will open up rez for pretty much the rest of the year here in a month or so and I thought that might be a great opportunity to start a new station.)

I wonder about the number of gates, too; sounds kind of low to me. I'm not familiar with the terminal where gates 21 and 23 are located but I must wonder if there are additional gates available for WN expansion? They had 2 gates when they left SFO in early 2001 and I would expect them (according to what's been said) to be planning on (a lot?) more flights this go-around. I guess 20-25 is almost twice the flight count that they had before (14) but... (If they start with the "usual" 12-ish flights, that doesn't allow for a whole bunch of expansion. DEN started with 2 gates but they've been able to add adjacent gates pretty easily and steadily. Maybe they have the same plan at SF.)

bb
 
Coronado990
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:05 pm

It would be nice if Southwest could this time pair up SFO with SAN and continue some flights from SFO via SAN to destinations that might otherwise too weak for non-stops on their own such as SFO-SAN-MSY, SFO-SAN-TPA, SFO-SAN-MCO and SFO-SAN-ORF.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
SJCRRPAX
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:37 pm

Quoting R311music (Reply 25):
OAK is most definitely not closing down.

For sure OAK is not closing down, it's probably the closest airport to the population center of the Bay Area out of the three Bay Area airports, if fact I find it hard to believe that OAK has never been able to make even a small dent in SFO's international traffic. But I firmly believe that WN at SFO will not increase Bay Area total PAX's at all so consequently what WN doesn't take away from other carriers, they will take away from their own. Nobody will notice when OAK drops to 11 flights a day from 12 to SAN, or when SJC drops a flight to LAS or SAN because they have so many.
 
flyboy7974
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:45 pm

From lists above, if we're looking at a contender in the "L.A." area other then LAX, it'd most likely be BUR. Gate space available and operations ready. If this is only because LAX is maxxed, they can't get flights right now into SNA because slots are maxed, and BUR vs. ONT, that's a no brainer. The O&D comparing the two hands down I think would show BUR as the contender because airlines have failed to make ONT-SFO service viable, and, as mentioned, BUR is UA's highest yield route out of SFO in their top 20 markets of all SFO U.S flights.

On a sidenote, tonight I got the Hub Profile for SWA for both LAS and MDW. I cannot believe, and I'm happy about it since I opened the SWA station back on 4/16/90 in BUR, but looking at their LAS numbers, and wow, BUR is making a name for themselves. Out of LAS, BUR beats other big name contenders in O&D for SWA, BUR beats out LAX, SAN, MDW, RNO, SMF, SJC, ONT, MCI, SLC, HOU, ABQ, BWI, TUS, DEN, SNA, SAT, and BNA to sit at #3 for SWA in LAS, behind only PHX and OAK. Of those top 20 O&D markets for SWA in LAS, BUR sits at #3 also for highest yield, and that's only behind ONT/1 and SNA/2 for average yield at 37.78 and 35.24 cents respectively with BUR sitting at 34.73. The BUR O&D for SWA in LAS sits at 484 daily pax with an estimated 790 connecting pax a day and load factor of 74.2%. Other notes for the LAS hub profile, lowest yield in top 20 markets are BWI (6.63), MDW(7.66), BNA(8.17), IAH(9.06), and MCI(9.52).

Playing devil's advocate though, negative point against BUR, not much for true onward connections while ONT still offers a nonstop BNA service. Maybe, dreaming here, if this all materializes, maybe BUR can try again for their MDW nonstop that they had last year as a once a week Saturday service. If they can get a SFO-BUR-MDW flight, obviously would have to be with a -700 for ops specs, we can all dream, can't we?
 
PVD757
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 32):
Well, you don't have to take it that way, but you can look at past WN city openings for some guidance:

IAD opened 10/5/06.
RSW opened 10/3/05.
ORF opened 10/8/01(or 10/7).
BUF opened 10/8/00.
BDL opened 11/1/99.

PVD opened 10/27/96
 
AlexPorter
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:10 am

RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:33 pm

They aren't going to ever fly PVD-SFO with their current fleet - right now their longest flight is PHL-OAK, and PVD-SFO is longer than that. They might offer 1-stop direct service via MDW someday though.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
PVD757
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 39):
They aren't going to ever fly PVD-SFO with their current fleet

"ever" is an awful long time. I'd be willing to bet that the winglet and thrust upgrades they made to the 73G's make the flight logistcally possible. WN's willingness to actually serve the route is the real issue.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 11):
Why would WN want to return to SFO? They're already hugely successful at OAK and SJC

There are several reasons... I'd imagine not the least of which would be a preemptive strike by WN to avoid another repeat of their "Great Screwup of 2000" at JFK  Wink
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
skyharborshome
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:19 am

RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
BNA actually will be the #12 station (with 83 departures) behind SMF with 84

SMF is one of two CA stations I have not utilized. I had no idea they were so busy there but we all know how much WN loves (and for good reason) intra-California flights.
Fly CHD!
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1210
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RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:33 am

Why are they reentering into SFO, that's an easy question to answer, to defend their turf. Just like why did they ever go into PHL, why did they go into DEN? Simply, defending turf and opening up the market to the SWA. Both of those markets offer viable options that would normally have fit into the Southwest style of avoiding metro aiports, ABE and COS are both within reach of each of those SWA entry markets, but, as another post was reviewing, this isn't the SWA we knew 10 years ago. They aren't pulling people out of their cars anymore and making air travel competitive with the automobile like they use to 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. Southwest now has already created that niche, now they are defending territory, same thing with JetBlue, why do you think they went into SFO with OAK/SJC/SMF stations already established? When SWA went into Philly, everybody knew it would be a blowout, and to my understanding, PHL has been their #2 best ever station opening and #1 for the past 10 years plus, but we all knew it would be with the yield per mile US was getting out of PHL, but, why did they dive into a market plagued with ATC delays both in the air and on the ground, a enroute system saturated and ground facilities that were one big garage sale (a mess and a mess there), simply put, SWA was defending territory against incumbents like JetBlue and AirTran.
 
as739x
Posts: 4995
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 43):

Very well said. I think to add to this they have learned in PHL how to deal with a delayed plagued airport. A little more ground time in other station goes a long way in keeping a/c ontime.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 34):

To answer your question on gates. They will be getting 21/23. Then gate 25 at the moment is used by US/HP, but it still city owned. So I'd assume that WN may look at this as a viable 3rd gate. This is the gate I had wished Alaska facilities people would have gone for. The B councourse is slowly getting really full. If WN is a smathing success, I wonder if this puts pressure on SFO to get the D (old internartional) renovated quicker and running.

ASLAX(SFO)
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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mariner
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Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 43):
Why are they reentering into SFO, that's an easy question to answer, to defend their turf. Just like why did they ever go into PHL, why did they go into DEN? Simply, defending turf and opening up the market to the SWA.

I agree with the second part, but the first one puzzles me. Since they didn't have "turf" at PHL (or DEN) how could they defend it?

And at SFO - what turf are they defending? They walked away from the turf once, leaving it defenceless.

Going back to SFO makes sense to me - now they'll have the whole Bay area covered, just as they have L.A. It may or may not become one of the biggest stations, but presently it looks (to me) like a hole in their CA network.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 45):
And at SFO - what turf are they defending? They walked away from the turf once, leaving it defenceless.

The market they are defending is the Bay Area. For a certain percentage of WN customers presently flying out of OAK or SJC, SFO is the closer more convient airport. Upstarts like Frontier, Jet Blue, and Virgin America could impact their PAX loads at both OAK and SJC. Really makes sense for them to totally cover the Bay Area just like they do with the Greater Los Angeles area, and give all their customers a choice of flying from Any NoCal airport to any SoCal airport. I really expect the three Bay Area airports to eventually have about equal number of WN flights.
 
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mariner
Posts: 18113
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 46):
The market they are defending is the Bay Area.

Yes, I think I made that point:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 45):
now they'll have the whole Bay area covered, just as they have L.A.

But wasn't that always true? So the interesting issue (for me) is not that they are going back, but that they left, making way for "the upstarts".

And I'm still not sure how "turf defending" applies to PHL - or DEN, which were the examples supplied.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
SANFan
Posts: 3671
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:12 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 44):
They will be getting 21/23. Then gate 25 at the moment is used by US/HP, but it still city owned. So I'd assume that WN may look at this as a viable 3rd gate.

Thanks for that ASLAX2SFO. A third gate possibility makes more sense than just 2 (which hardly seems worth the trouble for WN.)

With the new cx arriving at SFO by, well, the plane-full, and a "hub?" by VX a real possibility, I would agree with you that the Airport people ought to be making T-D renovations a big priority!

BTW, does anyone remember what gates WN had last time at SFO?

bb
 
as739x
Posts: 4995
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Southwest: SFO Update

Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 48):

Gates 12 and 14 if I remember correctly
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"

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