DCAYOW
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Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:01 pm

OK, I know we have discussed the issues BA has with the BWI flight to LHR. What does open skies do to the BWI-LHR flight? I am wondering if BA is considering that slot better allocated to DFW in the new open skies environment. Thoughts?
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rafflesking
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:18 pm

Apologies - but could somebody quickly explain the issues BA has with its BWI flight? I did a quick search but turned up nothing.

Thanks!
 
DCAYOW
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:10 pm

It always seems like it's on the list of marginal routes. Its one of the few routes flown to the USA with 767 versus the 777 and 744s that regularly invade IAD (Dulles Intl), an airport that serves the same market catchment (Washington/Baltimore). Also, the State of Maryland helped the flight out through a lottery scheme called "Big Ben Bucks", where the lottery would give away business seats in exchange for funds from Maryland.
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LHboyatDTW
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:28 pm

Do they still have that flight continue to CLT or am I just crazy? I remember seeing photos of BA 767s and even 777s in CLT!

I've always wondered why BA even considered flying there when the yields to/from IAD are much higher and are more capable of filling up a 777 or 744.
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IC408
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:40 pm

BA serves BWI to LHR through the exception in Bermuda II which allows for service to LHR if no competing service is offered. i.e. if UA (never going to happen but just for example) started BWI - LGW then BA would have to switch to LGW as BWI is not specifically allowed to LHR. A similar situation exists at DEN I believe that allows for the BA service there.

A secondary argument used by BA was that BWI, DCA , and IAD are considered to be co-terminals as part of WAS. So technically they are offering WAS - LHR service. There are actually several technicalities and claims, etc but its mainly a combination of these two reasons.

As for why they serve BWI, well despite what some people believe there is actually a difference in the IAD catchment area and the BWI area. There is overlap but a lot of people live N and NE of DC and can get to BWI a lot faster than IAD. In addition, Baltimore and its suburbs are North of BWI so a IAD trip takes almost 1.25 hours if not more during rush hour. So in short, lots of people can use BWI as a more convenient option plus its a low cost hub with WN offering service to most everywhere.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:55 pm

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 3):
Do they still have that flight continue to CLT or am I just crazy?

Not anymore

Quoting IC408 (Reply 4):
BA serves BWI to LHR through the exception in Bermuda II which allows for service to LHR if no competing service is offered.

No they don't. They switched the flight under coterminal authority quite a bit before exploiting the single service loophole on the other three routings.
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tymnbalewne
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 2):
Also, the State of Maryland helped the flight out through a lottery scheme called "Big Ben Bucks", where the lottery would give away business seats in exchange for funds from Maryland.

More than this...the Md Aviation Authority do not charge BA rent. This was biggish news during the last election cycle.

C.
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tsnamm
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 6):
More than this...the Md Aviation Authority do not charge BA rent. This was biggish news during the last election cycle.

Really?...I didn't hear anything...which candidate brought it up?...since BWI seems to be unable to get/hold onto( e.g. KL,EI ) any major Intl. service, I'd be very careful threatening BA, or they'll lose this flight also.
 
usairways85
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:48 pm

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 2):
Its one of the few routes flown to the USA with 767 versus the 777 and 744s

Just because it sees the 763 does not mean its a marginal performer. The BA 763's have received new interiors and now PHL, EWR, and i believe BOS all see the 763
 
BA787
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 8):

He means it isn't one of BA more successful US runs, hence the use of smaller aircraft on the route
 
DCAYOW
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 8):
The BA 763's have received new interiors and now PHL, EWR, and i believe BOS all see the 763

Yes, but that is BWI's sole service to whereas PHL, BOS and EWR all have multiple BA frequencies per day - especially in summer. Just a hunch...
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tymnbalewne
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 7):
Really?...I didn't hear anything...which candidate brought it up?...since BWI seems to be unable to get/hold onto( e.g. KL,EI ) any major Intl. service, I'd be very careful threatening BA, or they'll lose this flight also.

As luck would have it, there was something in the press this week about the subsidy, Balto Sun - "BA BWI Subsidy Ok'd."

C.
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vega
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 8):
Just because it sees the 763 does not mean its a marginal performer. The BA 763's have received new interiors and now PHL, EWR, and i believe BOS all see the 763



Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 10):
Yes, but that is BWI's sole service to whereas PHL, BOS and EWR all have multiple BA frequencies per day - especially in summer. Just a hunch...

The reason BA decided to redesign the interiors and use 767s on several routes instead of the 777/747 is directly related to the amount of premium traffic in the specific market. The upgraded BA 767s do not have First Class cabins like the 777 and 747. Markets that could not adequately support BA FIrst Class were downgraded to the 767, either completely (BWI, DTW, etc.), or partially (PHL, BOS, EWR, etc.). The cities partially downgraded retained at least one other year round premium flight (777 or 747).

Here is an (old) article which highllights some of the relationships between BWI/MD and BA.
http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?id=8652&siteSection=4
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 12):
The upgraded BA 767s do not have First Class cabins like the 777 and 747. Markets that could not adequately support BA FIrst Class were downgraded to the 767

Some of their 777-served cities also lack the traffic to support First, so having service with a 767 is not always indicative of premium demand for some of their routes.
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vega
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RE: Is BWI's BA LHR Slot At Risk For Reallocation?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
Quoting Vega (Reply 12):
The upgraded BA 767s do not have First Class cabins like the 777 and 747. Markets that could not adequately support BA FIrst Class were downgraded to the 767

Some of their 777-served cities also lack the traffic to support First, so having service with a 767 is not always indicative of premium demand for some of their routes.

Obviously.
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