ANCFlyer
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Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:58 am

Continued from here:

Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part II (by OB1504 Apr 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
LawnDart
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting RL757PVD ():
Actually i know for a fact that some front line employees were involved in the process.
:

You are correct.

Picture this...someone at Delta decides that a new paint scheme is in order to herald emergence from bankruptcy. Believing no one within the company has the creative talent to come up with a "new image", an individual is put in charge of finding a "brand consultant" to do the job.

That individual is one who maybe, in the past, was responsible for introducing "new and hip" products to the Delta brand(say, via song) , ie: AVOD, Mile High Mojitos, etc...

So, the brand consultants are hired (at beaucoup $$$s) and, creative little geniuss...geniusus...smart people that they are, they understand that they need to come up with something new and fresh - otherwise, what's the point ($$$)? So anyway, they come up with a plethora of ideas...some include the stale ol' widget (boo...hiss...), some include some widget modifications that look like they came off the set of Star Trek, and others are in between.

It's those in-betweeners the "brand consultants" really want to push forward..fresh and hip, but not too far out. However, to make it look like employees had a part in the decision, the "brand consultants" put together "employee focus groups". The operative word being FOCUS. Brand consultants are extremely adept at getting groups of people to FOCUS on images they want the group to FOCUS on...

So, the group of DL employees looks at this plethora of ideas, while the "brand consultants" describe them..."Here we have a nice little design with the stodgy ol' widget (oops, did I say that?), and here we have something that might look good, although it is a little far out, and here we have a lovely little design with a widget updated for the 21st century!!!

Which one do you like?

Hmm....uh, the nice little design updated for the 21st century?

And if the employee focus group doesn't choose the right design, upper managment vetoes the decision...hey, the employees were involved in the process!

Here's the rub...Delta Air Lines has an image and a reputation (although tattered) second to none among the legacy carriers...true or not. The widget is one of the most recognised airline logos in the business, and many other carriers would kill for that kind of marketing power.

That image is not hip and forward thinking...it is homey and steady...and steady wins the race.

Delta is making a huge mistake in trying to reinvent themselves, when what they've already got is all they really need (okay, the Mile High Mojitos don't hurt...).

[Edited 2007-04-11 01:23:12]
 
boysteve
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:28 am

I do find it strange that DL needs a new livery when it still hasn't phased out it's previous one yet! Regularly at MAN we get one B767 in the current livery (the wavy colours on the tail) and one B767 with the previous livery on the same day.
 
legoguy
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:34 am

When is this livery to be used and how long will it take to paint all aircraft? Im presuming a long time if there are still Delta aircraft around with the older livery.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
aviatortj
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:37 am

This is hardly a new livery. It is a refresh of the former one. The widget is back on the tail where people wanted it (although I don't care if it stands or tilts). I think it looks fine and will blend in. The titles could be larger and the colors could be bolder, but I'm not getting paid for my opinions.
 
S5FA170
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:44 am

I actually like this colorscheme, but I do agree with the poster above in thinking that the "Delta" titles could be larger.
Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
 
jblake1
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:13 am

Guys its not like you'll have to put up with this livery for long.. at the rate their going there will be a new one to debate the merits of in a couple years, so don't despair!
 
aviatortj
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:22 am

Quick render of a CRJ for your viewing pleasure.
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 299 File size: 150kb


PS: I know I missed a few things, but you get the idea.
 
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Owleye
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:25 am

The bigger an enterprise is, often the more difficult it is for a branding firm to get the best design approved. Too many people get involved in the design process and that's an horror scenario. And at the end often the upper management, which thinks to have the knowledge in house about branding, design and what so more, makes often the worst decissions. Alas, it's like that. Don't always blame the design company, maybe they have proposed much better designs which we will never meet...
 
rj777
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:46 am

"let's steer clear of calling it the Citgo Scheme..."

For Now!
 
micstatic
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:53 am

What will the first planes be to fly in the new livery?
Will they be released at the same time?
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
pizzaandplanes
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 am

Well it looks like someone moved Delta's cheese. Change is good sometimes. Although, it seems that Delta is the only airline who is wasting a ton of money re-painting their whole fleet multiple times in the last decade.
A real man lands where he wants to
 
halls120
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting RJ777 (Reply 9):
"let's steer clear of calling it the Citgo Scheme..."

For Now!

Why? That's what it looks like.

Mind you, I kind of like it. Even if it has the Chavenista look to it.  Smile
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
caleeiii
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:14 pm

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 666 File size: 140kb
 
OB1504
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:23 pm

Quoting RJ777 (Reply 9):
"let's steer clear of calling it the Citgo Scheme..."

First, there was the Widget, and it was good...
Then there was Ron Allen, and it was all right...
Then there was Deltaflot/Wavy Gravy, and it was okay...
Now, there is the Citgo Scheme, and it is...  crazy 

(okay, I admit, with the exception of the widget being cut off, I like the new colors)

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 11):
Well it looks like someone moved Delta's cheese. Change is good sometimes. Although, it seems that Delta is the only airline who is wasting a ton of money re-painting their whole fleet multiple times in the last decade.

For the umpteenth time, the aircraft have to be repainted anyway during their heavy maintenance checks! They don't just take aircraft off of flight lines and toss 'em in the paint shop for a few days—they wait for their heavy checks when they have to strip the paint to check for corrosion and things like that, and then they paint the airplane again, but this time, in the new livery (which is why it can take so long to get a fleet as large as DL's repainted in the new scheme). Since every color scheme change since the widget has used progressively less paint, this is actually saving them money on paint, and on weight (pardon the rhyme).
 
JayDavis
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:36 pm

BORING !!

I think if I were coming out of bankruptcy, I'd like something a little bit better than this crappy scheme.
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:40 pm

at least they should add a full tilted widget on the engines, then it would look cool. It helps so people can relate the complete widget with the incomplete widget in the tail.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:18 pm

Can we just shut this thread down until we actually see a REAL airplane in REAL sunlight?

Seriously, this isn't going anywhere. And we still have 3 weeks until any of us even lays our eyes on a picture of a real airplane painted in this livery.
 
RoyalAtlantis
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 1):
Delta is making a huge mistake in trying to reinvent themselves, when what they've already got is all they really need (okay, the Mile High Mojitos don't hurt...).

thanks for the post LawnDart - I can clearly see how this process may have worked. The new widget doesn't look like the iconic symbol that is so easy to identify...but if it "is what it is" then we'll all deal.

p.s. had one of those mojitos on the way to FLL, blak!

*** wish the new widget was a little more sophisticated and global.
 
stirling
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:50 pm



Quoting RJ777 (Reply 9):
"let's steer clear of calling it the Citgo Scheme..."



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 12):
Why? That's what it looks like.
Delete this User
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:58 pm

They should just hang a tail of a DL 763 behind Fenway Park to replicate the old Citgo sign that was (and still may be, not sure) back there for years. No one would notice the difference!
 
Jamake1
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:00 pm

Actually, I don't mind the way the tail was designed. It continues a tradition of a well-recognized corporate logo that musters a fair amount of sentimentality and updates it. The tilted widget points forward and upward, reflecting a positive direction for a company about to emerge from restructuring. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. What bothers me is that the rest of the color scheme comes up short. Delta has been bold during the past few years by introducing a slew of new international routes (many into uncharted waters for existing US legacy carriers), as well as launching a well-publicized debut of the smart new staff uniforms, however, the DELTA lettering on the new identity is anything but bold. It doesn't suggest confidence. The Delta word mark should be larger, but not overbearing (like Allegiant). Furthermore, just as the new uniforms are accented in red, there should be a red cheat line that trims the blue underbelly, bridging it with the Euro-white fuselage, which would give the makeover a more complete, crisp look: A look that exudes elegance, class, wholeness. In its current form (the new look) looks incomplete and doesn't reflect confidence and hope towards the future...
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
SkyWestFan
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:29 pm

I just about had a coronary embolism when I saw that rendition painted on ASA -700.....I thought it was real and about lost it.

I think a Full Metal Jacket R Lee Ermey Quote is appropiate. "You're so ugly you could be a modern art masterpiece"







"We Love To Fly And It Shows!" -Citgo
Fiji. Its like sex - but better.
 
flyingchoirboy
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:33 pm

While I do think the tail needs some work (aka KEEPING THE WIDGET POINTING UPWARD!), I do believe it is a nice livery. I can live with it. As long as I can keep saying "Delta is MY Delta", I'll be content  Smile

Scott
 
okie73
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 7):
Quick render of a CRJ for your viewing pleasure.

don't forget on an RJ it will say "Delta Connection".....not "Delta".
 
ord
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 1):
Believing no one within the company has the creative talent to come up with a "new image", an individual is put in charge of finding a "brand consultant" to do the job.

Nobody at Delta should have the creative talent to develop a new image. Delta is an airline, not an advertising agency. And the person probably put in charge of determining the firm for the new image was most likely Joanne Smith, head of marketing.

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 1):
It's those in-betweeners the "brand consultants" really want to push forward..fresh and hip, but not too far out. However, to make it look like employees had a part in the decision, the "brand consultants" put together "employee focus groups". The operative word being FOCUS. Brand consultants are extremely adept at getting groups of people to FOCUS on images they want the group to FOCUS on...

You have no clue how market research works and your statements are completely incorrect. Any research done on the new Delta brand would have been conducted by an independent research company, NOT the company developing the brand image. This keeps the research unbiased. Further, any reputable research firm would NEVER head a focus group, interviews, etc. by leading the respondents toward a certain campaign or design. Have you ever been in a focus group? The first thing the moderator says is "I am not involved with this creative, the company that designed it or the client, and have no personal incentive for you to express a preference for any one of these concepts." The goal of research is to be unbiased, and I highly doubt a company like Delta would have hired a low-rate research firm.

Also, while Delta's employees may have been involved in the new branding process, there surely was research done outside of the company among the target market of frequent flyers (most likely divided among business and leisure travelers and those who fly Delta most often and those who fly competitors).

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 1):
And if the employee focus group doesn't choose the right design, upper managment vetoes the decision...hey, the employees were involved in the process!

Wrong again. Any new branding may have had input from employees. But the research among frequent flyers, Delta's target, would have led to a recommendation from the branding company about which direction to go. And that is the direction that would be followed. Again, let's give Joanne Smith and other Delta executives a little credit for knowing what the heck they are doing. They most certainly did not select a new brand based on their personal whims.
 
vsmike
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:02 am

Gawd. It could have been soooo good.
But, its as uninspired as the post-1996 Summer Olympics Delta scheme. Blue on white. Wait, a dash of red. No uniformality to the Widget.
Give me a break.
Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
 
GQfluffy
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:08 am

The tail isn't so bad; it's the rest of the fuselage. Uninspiring. I'm no photoshop genius, so I can't sit here and brew up things, but give that damned white fuselage a cheatline or something, then maybe we'll have something worthwhile...  scratchchin 
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
BOS2LAF
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 4):
I think it looks fine and will blend in.

Blending in is precisely what they dont want!!!!  banghead 

Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 7):
Quick render of a CRJ for your viewing pleasure.

Now that actually looks nice since you shrunk the widget a bit, so less of it is cut off. That scheme I could stomach. DL are you listening???

Quote:
"let's steer clear of calling it the Citgo Scheme..."

Why?? It looks like the Citgo logo.

Who wants to take bets as to how long it takes Bill O'Reilly to start a campaign to boycott Citgo Airlines?
 
kellmark
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:15 am

It is unfortunate. They could have hit a home run, and they have hit a lowly single. It is very uninspiring. The tail is awful. They learned nothing from their first attempt at a livery change which was so bland they had to change it. I will miss the Deltaflot.

And all of this business about focus groups, employee involvement and consulting companies simply shows that the process doesn't work.
 
BOS2LAF
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Kellmark (Reply 29):
They could have hit a home run, and they have hit a lowly single.

LOL That livery isn't even a single. It's a strike.
 
rikkus67
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:33 am

AviatorTJ....

Your rendition of the tilted widget at least gets MOST of the widjet on the tail. The 767 actually looks like a plaid tapestry.
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
Delta787
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:10 am

I like this new livery even more everytime I see it. Its a new look for Delta. I imagine it will look better on a real airplane.
Fly Delta!
 
montanaflyer
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:33 am

do we even know that this will actually be the future livery of Delta? Seems as if they would likely paint tons of models with possible schemes before deciding on a livery and maybe this one just happened to get out.
not all who wander are lost
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting Montanaflyer (Reply 33):
maybe this one just happened to get out.

we hope so.... I still want to be surprised on May 1st with another livery, as cool as song or more innovative
 
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CV880
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:01 am

We can live with the tail as long as we can keep the 744 until the 773's arrive...  Smile
 
andrewuber
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:45 am

Should we start distributing "Keep Deltaflot MY Deltaflot" buttons??

This new livery sucks, but as someone pointed out - we won't see it for more than the two year livery cycle anyway, so who cares.

DL probably has their own full time livery design staff anyway.
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
ord
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Montanaflyer (Reply 33):
Seems as if they would likely paint tons of models with possible schemes before deciding on a livery and maybe this one just happened to get out.

This is true, although the fact this model is shown being photographed indicates it is probably the real deal.

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 36):
Should we start distributing "Keep Deltaflot MY Deltaflot" buttons??

Absolutely not. That livery replaced the widget on the tail with a flag motif that has nothing to do with Delta, included half-painted engines that look mismatched, was created under the watch of the worst management team in Delta's history and is associated with the worst seven years in the company's existance. Good riddance to Delatflot.
 
707lvr
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 25):
no clue how market research works and your statements are completely incorrect. Any research done on the new Delta brand would have been conducted by an independent research company

All due respect, ORD, I think a lot of people feel 'market research' peaked with If you ain't eatin' WHAM, you ain't eatin' ham. On the good side, the planes will all eventually go through check and get painted and then there will be a new management team at Delta who will feel they have to make their mark, starting with the tails, and they'll select something they hope is stunning but innocuous which we will all hate and we'll do this again.
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:02 am

Frankly, I think something like this would look the best....incorporates the old old livery, adds some of the newer livery, then gives the whole thing a bit of pinache.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/tmoore065/NewDeltaLivery.jpg?t=1176317722

Btw, a good friend sent me this.....I think his idea merits some discussion. What say you?

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
LawnDart
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting ORD (Reply 25):
You have no clue how market research works and your statements are completely incorrect.

Gosh, you don't even know me and yet your so mean to me... cry 

Quoting ORD (Reply 25):
The goal of research is to be unbiased,

Ultimately, yes...practically, doesn't always happen...

I've been involved in research, from a marketing to a statistical standpoint, and have had countless people attempt to sway the results that my team came up with, from the managers whose a$$ was on the line if the numbers didn't look good, to the Senior VPs, whose a$$ was on the line if the numbers didn't look good, to the clients whose a$$ was on the line if they didn't sell their products.

Did I resist? You bet...because my a$$ would be on the line if the numbers didn't turn out the way I said they would.

Well, guess what...I got fired.

I completely agree with you (now, see? Aren't I being nice to you?) that research is worthless if it is not done as accurately and in as unbiased a method as possible.

However, there are unscrupulous individuals all over corporate America (not saying there are at DL, we all know they're as pure as the driven snow...well, wait a minute, there was that gang of thiev...oh, nevermind).

Quoting ORD (Reply 25):
They most certainly did not select a new brand based on their personal whims.

You mean to tell me that a corporate brand has never been selected on a personal whim? Oh, just Delta's...okay...well, guess what: the current DeltaFlot colors and the previous widget with the arc instead of the angle?

At any rate, before calling me a big ignoramus stupid doody head, take me out on a date and get to know me first. puckerup 
 
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litz
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:26 am

Tom .... one word : *wow* ...

Almost looks like the livery for a private jet.

- litz
 
Noise
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:29 am

What shade of blue will the new livery have?
 
steeler83
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 14):
Now, there is the Citgo Scheme, and it is...

HAHAHA!!!

Man, I have to say this is turning out to be one of the funniest livery threads on here... I guess Citgo doesn't say "go" anymore. They now say "fly, and fly Delta!"  bigthumbsup 

I do wish they'd bring back the original widget from the '60s... the rest of the color scheme is good, but if they're going to bring the widget back, then please actually bring it back. Don't make some half-@$$ed abstract of it for heaven's sake!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
ConjureMe
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:55 am

You guys didn't here the news? Delta has been researching the use of automotive gas in turbine engines and now have a fuel hedging deal with Citgo.

"Citgo Says Go Fly Delta"

Actually that fits pretty well with Delta's 2000 marketing campaign  Smile
Never let the plane take you somewhere your brain didn't get to five minutes ago.
 
phxplanes
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 27):
The tail isn't so bad; it's the rest of the fuselage. Uninspiring

I agree with that.

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 39):

This is my favorite people have come up with so far.
 
steeler83
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 41):
Tom .... one word : *wow* ...

Almost looks like the livery for a private jet.

it does look like that, but it's snazzy. I like that look! Bring the widget flying into the 21st century with some class!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Evan767
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:07 am

So is there a website or a campaign yet to keep the Delta livery the same it was in the 70's 80's and 90's? What's the site?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
ord
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 40):
At any rate, before calling me a big ignoramus stupid doody head, take me out on a date and get to know me first.

Who can have hard feelings when you just made me laugh out loud?! I meant no disrepsect, I just have had different experiences with research where it was much more "professional." Your points are well taken. As for Delatflot, that does seem to have been a personal whim of Mullin and Reid. But my understanding was there was no research done, they just did it with Landor's help.
 
LawnDart
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RE: Delta's New Livery Is Out - Part III

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting ORD (Reply 48):
I meant no disrepsect,

None taken...

Quoting ORD (Reply 48):
As for Delatflot, that does seem to have been a personal whim of (edit) Reid.

Wait 'til I tell you how they came up with "Song"...  

[Edited 2007-04-11 22:35:59]

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