EA772LR
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Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:20 pm

What is the longest route served by the A346? and who is operating this flight? And does the A346 have the legs to do a LHR to HNL flight? Or rather the A346X?
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ktachiya
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:28 pm

I would presume that it's CX on those HKG-JFK runs.

I don't think LH uses them on those super-long routes.
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gemini573
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:20 pm

I would have to agree with Ktachiya. I think it's CX on the HKG-JFK run. It was the world's longest flight at one time until SQ introduced their ultra-long haul flights to SIN from LAX and JFK.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 2):
I would have to agree with Ktachiya. I think it's CX on the HKG-JFK run. It was the world's longest flight at one time until SQ introduced their ultra-long haul flights to SIN from LAX and JFK.

I thought SA)">CO's EWR-HKG beat CX's HKG-JFK (if only by a few miles)

I know at one point SA has them scheduled for non-stop JNB-IAD, I do not know for sure whether it ever actually flew it, but if it did, that is the longest A340-600 route flown, or really that could be, as it would be coming into IAD on vapors (remember winds).

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LH423
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:39 pm

I'd also agree...CXs JFK run

LH423

*Edited to correct a misunderstanding...oops!

[Edited 2007-04-11 07:40:39]
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cyba
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:24 pm

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 1):
I don't think LH uses them on those super-long routes.

FRA-PVG-MNL, FRA-ICN or MUC-LAX are probably the longest LH routes currently.

I flew the 346 on FRA-EZE-SCL couple of years back. Route stopped when they routed EZE via GRU with a 744.

VS's LHR-HKG-SYD is also a rather long one.
 
Kevin777
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:41 pm

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 1):
I would presume that it's CX on those HKG-JFK runs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that flown with the 345 and not the 346?

LHR-HKG, LHR-LAX is probably some of the longest currently flown by the 346 I'd say

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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:43 pm

Well AFAIK LH flew them diretly to SCL some years ago
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OceansWorld
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:47 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 6):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that flown with the 345 and not the 346?

CX has no A345s in its fleet.

Quoting EA772LR (Thread starter):
And does the A346 have the legs to do a LHR to HNL flight?



Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 1):
I would presume that it's CX on those HKG-JFK runs.

LHR-HNL is 6289nm long, while HKG-JFK is 7014nm. The A346 has a range of 7750nm.

http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfam...0a340/a340-600/specifications.html

[Edited 2007-04-11 12:53:32]
 
gemini573
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:24 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 8):
while HKG-JFK is 7014nm

HKG-JFK is 8059 nautical miles. If it was as you quoted for HKG-JFK, then it would be shorter than LAX-HKG, which is 7248 miles.
 
VHVXB
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
I know at one point SA has them scheduled for non-stop JNB-IAD

This flight operates via Dakar

Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 9):
HKG-JFK is 8059 nautical miles

its not. The figure Oceansworld posted is correct
 
OceansWorld
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 9):
HKG-JFK is 8059 nautical miles. If it was as you quoted for HKG-JFK, then it would be shorter than LAX-HKG, which is 7248 miles.

I've got the info from Great Circle Mapper, but do you speak in miles (mi) in both case or in nautical miles (nm) ?

Here's what GCM shows for both routes:

HKG-JFK 7014nm or 8072mi

LAX-HKG 6309nm or 7260mi
 
Steve332
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:52 pm

Do SQ not operate SIN - EWR on a 346??
 
OceansWorld
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Steve332 (Reply 12):
Do SQ not operate SIN - EWR on a 346??

No, it's with an A345.


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[Edited 2007-04-11 15:57:42]
 
Steve332
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 13):
No, it's with an A345.

Cheers,
 
keesje
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:07 pm

We have a CX 346 pilot (Zeke) who looked it up and says he flew 8600nm HKG-JFK. Westbound close along Hawai because of wind.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...=3350404&s=zeke+a340-600#ID3350404 reply 100
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gemini573
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 11):
I've got the info from Great Circle Mapper, but do you speak in miles (mi) in both case or in nautical miles (nm) ?

Here's what GCM shows for both routes:

HKG-JFK 7014nm or 8072mi

LAX-HKG 6309nm or 7260mi

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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:25 am

Two other long A340-600 routes are China Eastern (PVG-JFK) and Iberia (MAD-SCL).
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SA7700
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting EA772LR (Thread starter):
What is the longest route served by the A346?

SA: IAD-JNB = 7068nm (8134 miles)

Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 2):
It was the world's longest flight at one time until SQ introduced their ultra-long haul flights to SIN from LAX and JFK.

IIRC that title belonged to SA on the ATL-JNB sector at 7334nm (8439 miles)  Smile


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timz
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 15):
We have a CX 346 pilot (Zeke) who looked it up and says he flew 8600nm HKG-JFK. Westbound close along Hawai because of wind.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...=3350404&s=zeke a340-600#ID3350404 reply 100

Reply 86, isn't it? Maybe he means air nautical miles.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
thought SA)">CO's EWR-HKG beat CX's HKG-JFK (if only by a few miles)

Why?

Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 2):
I think it's CX on the HKG-JFK run. It was the world's longest flight at one time until SQ introduced their ultra-long haul flights to SIN from LAX and JFK.

Wasn't SAA still flying ATL-JNB when SIN-LAX started? If so, JFK-HKG never got the chance to be longest.
 
richierich
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 8):
LHR-HNL is 6289nm long, while HKG-JFK is 7014nm. The A346 has a range of 7750nm.

Can anybody tell me why my LHR-JFK flight on a VS A346 was "weight-listed" last year? I figured that the CSA was blowing smoke when she told me that, even if the winds aloft were pretty bad and the flight completely full.
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andz
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
I know at one point SA has them scheduled for non-stop JNB-IAD



Quoting VHVXB (Reply 10):
This flight operates via Dakar

The other way round then, SA208 IAD-JNB is non-stop. 8,134mi or 7,068nm
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
but if it did, that is the longest A340-600 route flown, or really that could be, as it would be coming into IAD on vapors (remember winds).

....the flight would only be nonstop eastbound, and still would've been shorter than SA's previous ATL-JNB nonstops.
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vs773er
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:14 am

How come no one has mentioned VS- LHR-SYD (Via HKG).That's over 8000nm isn't it?
The topic starter didn't state non-stop routes!
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AJO
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting VS773ER (Reply 23):
How come no one has mentioned VS- LHR-SYD (Via HKG).That's over 8000nm isn't it?



Quoting Cyba (Reply 5):
VS's LHR-HKG-SYD is also a rather long one.

 Smile

LHR-HKG-SYD is clearly the winner, it seems.
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OceansWorld
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting AJO (Reply 24):
LHR-HKG-SYD is clearly the winner, it seems.

For a direct flight yes. The route is 9189nm or 5209nm and 3980nm.
 
EA772LR
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:44 am

As far as efficiency goes, tho not completely comparable in seating capacity, how does the 346 stack up against the 744 or 744ER?

And why on earth do the 345/346 series weigh so dang much? I fully laden 346X weighs 835,000lbs while its competition 773ER weighs 60,000lbs less. thats a hell of a lot of dead weight. Is there nothing airbus could have done to shed pounds off the 345/346? I realize now its too late but is there anything airbus could have done?
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jfk777
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:27 am

Cathay Pacific's JFK to Hong Kong is the longest regulary scheduled A346 flight. Virgin Atlantic has many 14 hour flights from Asia to LHR but they are two hours less then Cathay from JFK.
 
VHVXB
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Andz (Reply 21):
The other way round then, SA208 IAD-JNB is non-stop. 8,134mi or 7,068nm

Cheers Andz. So SA hold the title for the longest non-stop flight for the A346
 
chrisrad
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:08 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 20):
Can anybody tell me why my LHR-JFK flight on a VS A346 was "weight-listed" last year? I figured that the CSA was blowing smoke when she told me that, even if the winds aloft were pretty bad and the flight completely full.

I think you mean "wait-listed" meaning people waiting to get on the flight, nothing to do with "weight"
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ComeAndGo
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 26):
And why on earth do the 345/346 series weigh so dang much? I fully laden 346X weighs 835,000lbs while its competition 773ER weighs 60,000lbs less. thats a hell of a lot of dead weight.

The two extra engines are heavy. There's nothing much they can do except get rid of the extra engines.
 
flybyguy
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 1):
I would presume that it's CX on those HKG-JFK runs.

I don't think LH uses them on those super-long routes.



Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 2):
I would have to agree with Ktachiya. I think it's CX on the HKG-JFK run. It was the world's longest flight at one time until SQ introduced their ultra-long haul flights to SIN from LAX and JFK.



Quoting LH423 (Reply 4):
I'd also agree...CXs JFK run

LH423



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 27):
Cathay Pacific's JFK to Hong Kong is the longest regulary scheduled A346 flight. Virgin Atlantic has many 14 hour flights from Asia to LHR but they are two hours less then Cathay from JFK.

Incidentally, I flew the CX JFK-HKG flight this past December on a trip to see some friends. That flight was unbelievably long (17.5 hours) when the longest I've spent on a plane was 13.5 hours. Honestly I didn't know the flight was that long until I actually asked the check-in clerk (yeah, I know I'm not a rabid A-nutter). Thank God for IFE and free booze otherwise I would have been bored out of my mind and unable to get some shuteye.
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9VSRH
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:58 pm

According to the CX CFP i have in front of me CX830 has a Total Distance of 8375nm. This was from a few days a go and distances may vary from day to day with accordance to the PACOTS. This is definately the longest route by an A346!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:57 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 15):
We have a CX 346 pilot (Zeke) who looked it up and says he flew 8600nm HKG-JFK. Westbound close along Hawai because of wind.

Exactly, but that's another massaged statistic the certain pilot used to try to prove a particular fuel burn figure that was rigged for that argument. The route is 7000nm. Just because CX took advantage of ridiculous tail winds in the winter jet stream on that flight and chose to drop way south to do it doesn't mean the A346 has 8600nm range or that you can average fuel burn per mile flown.

You don't judge a route based on the actual mileage flown on any particular day, but by the point to point distance and amount of fuel it takes to do that distance over a number of flights under various conditions.

Even the "longest flights" world records measure the distance between the way-points they registered, NOT the actual mileage flown. The 77L flight that broke the record flew much further than their "record" distance to capture favorable winds. Those extra miles don't count...  Smile
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zeke
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting 9VSRH (Reply 32):
According to the CX CFP i have in front of me CX830 has a Total Distance of 8375nm. This was from a few days a go and distances may vary from day to day with accordance to the PACOTS.

I think you will find it was a random route with a requirement to be past a waypoint by a specified time so as not to interfere with the PACOTS (Pacific Organized Track System). The route to JFK can be a north near Anchorage, a NOPAC route (north pacific), PACOTS, or a random track.

Looking at todays NOTAMS

Quote:
A2911/07 - EASTBOUND PACOTS TRACKS BETWEEN SOUTH EAST ASIA AND AMERICA, REQUIRED FOR ACFT CROSSING 160E BETWEEN 04120900UTC AND 04122000UTC, TRACK 14. FLEX ROUTE : DOVAG UKATA 33N150E 36N160E 39N170E 39N180E 39N170W 39N160W 40N150W 40N140W 38N130W ALLBE RCTP/VHHH ROUTE : BORDO R583 BISIS G581 ONC V73 DOVAG NAR ROUTE : ALLBE PIRAT OSI KSFO RMK : TRK 14 AVAILABLE FOR RCTP/VHHH LDG KSFO TRACK 15. FLEX ROUTE : DOVAG UKATA 33N150E 36N160E 39N170E 39N180E 38N170W 38N160W 39N150W 39N140W AMILL AUDIA RCTP/VHHH ROUTE : BORDO R583 BISIS G581 ONC V73 DOVAG NAR ROUTE : AUDIA RZS SADDE KLAX RMK : TRK 15 AVAILABLE FOR RCTP/VHHH LDG KLAX RMK/REF AIP ENR3.6-6 12 APR 07:00 UNTIL 12 APR 23:00

A2910/07 - EASTBOUND PACOTS TRACKS BETWEEN JAPAN AND HAWAII, REQUIRED FOR ACFT CROSSING 160E BETWEEN 04121200UTC AND 04121600UTC, TRACK 11. FLEX ROUTE : MORAY 34N150E 34N160E 33N170E 31N180E 27N170W DANNO JAPAN ROUTE : ACQUA OTR15 MORAY PHNL ROUTE : DANNO BOOKE PHNL TRACK 12. FLEX ROUTE : FERAR 33N150E 32N160E 30N170E 27N180E 25N170W CANON JAPAN ROUTE : ACQUA OTR21 FORDO OTR17 FERAR PHNL ROUTE : CANON BOOKE PHNL RMK/REF AIP ENR3.6-6 12 APR 10:00 UNTIL 12 APR 21:00

A2909/07 - EASTBOUND PACOTS TRACKS BETWEEN JAPAN AND NORTH AMERICA, REQUIRED FOR ACFT CROSSING 160E BETWEEN 04120900UTC AND 04121600UTC, TRACK 1. FLEX ROUTE : ETRON 40N160E 42N170E 42N180E 43N170W 44N160W 46N150W 48N140W PRETY JAPAN ROUTE : GUPPY OTR8 KAGIS OTR11 ABETS OTR9 ETRON NAR ROUTE : ACFT LDG KSEA--PRETY TAMRU TOU KSEA ACFT LDG KPDX--PRETY TAMRU TOU BTG KPDX ACFT LDG CYVR--PRETY TAMRU SEFIX YAZ FOCHE CYVR RMK : ACFT LDG OTHER DEST--PRETY TAMRU SEFIX PLN RTE TO DEST TRACK 2. FLEX ROUTE : GARRY 39N160E 41N170E 41N180E 41N170W 42N160W 43N150W 44N140W 42N130W VESPA JAPAN ROUTE : GUPPY OTR8 KAGIS OTR11 GARRY NAR ROUTE : ACFT LDG KSFO--VESPA ENI PYE KSFO ACFT LDG KLAX--VESPA ENI AVE FIM KLAX TRACK 3. FLEX ROUTE : SEALS 36N150E 38N160E 40N170E 40N180E 40N170W 41N160W 42N150W 41N140W 39N130W DACEM JAPAN ROUTE : GUPPY OTR13 SEALS NAR ROUTE : ACFT LDG KLAX--DACEM PAINT PIRAT AVE FIM KLAX ACFT LDG KSFO--DACEM PAINT PIRAT OSI KSFO RMK/REF AIP ENR3.6-6 12 APR 07:00 UNTIL 12 APR 23:00

You will see a reference to tracks 1 to 14, and tracks A to M, these are coded tracks between common areas, e.g.
Track 1 between Japan and Pacific Northwest
Track 2 between Japan and San Francisco
Track 3 between Japan and Los Angeles
Track 4 between Japan and West Coast U.S.
Track 8 between Japan and Dallas
Track 11 and 12 between Japan and Honolulu
Track 14 and 15 between Taipei/Hong Kong and San Francisco / Los Angeles
Track A and B between Honolulu and Japan
Track C, D, E, F and G West Coast U.S. and Japan
Track H, I, J and K between West Coast U.S. and Taipei / Hong Kong
Track L between West Coast U.S. and Manila
Track M between Dallas and Japan

Normally for a random HKG-JFK track will cross the NOTAMed PACOTS for that day, and you will see "EASTBOUND PACOTS TRACKS BETWEEN JAPAN AND NORTH AMERICA, REQUIRED FOR ACFT CROSSING 160E BETWEEN 04120900UTC AND 04121600UTC" in the NOTAM, so the normal procedure is to be established in the random track before the PACOTS comes into effect at 0900.
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:35 pm

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 31):
Incidentally, I flew the CX JFK-HKG flight this past December on a trip to see some friends. That flight was unbelievably long (17.5 hours) when the longest I've spent on a plane was 13.5 hours.

Wow really? I flew EWR-HKG on CO a few years ago when I spent a summer working in NYC and the flying time was right at 15:15 going and 15:20 coming back. I dont think the winds are a factor over the North Pole. Is the A346 that much slower?
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zeke
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:49 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
Exactly, but that's another massaged statistic the certain pilot used to try to prove a particular fuel burn figure that was rigged for that argument. The route is 7000nm. Just because CX took advantage of ridiculous tail winds in the winter jet stream on that flight and chose to drop way south to do it doesn't mean the A346 has 8600nm range or that you can average fuel burn per mile flown.

What is said it the flight time of 15-18 hrs is what the aircraft does day in day out, the route cannot be flown in 7000 nm, in either direction, there are established tracks (like NOPAC) to the north need to be followed, to the south random tracks go over 8600 nm, and the POLAR 1-4 tracks coming back. Through Russia and northern China, you can only fly on established tracks.

You have demonstrated time and time again that you have little knowledge of real life flight operations, I did not "massage" any statics, I clearly outlined the facts, and even provided you with the routing, the aircraft has a SCHEDULED flight time every day eastbound of 15:45, and the return of 16:30. People were trying to compare a 16 hr flight in a 346 to a 13.5hr flight in a 773ER, it does not take a genius to notice the 2.5 hr flight time difference, the aircraft still meeds to remain aloft for that period of time. BTW I did not average the fuel burn per mile, just per hour, but our flight plans do use FF/GNM to take into account wind.

FYI the A340-600 Prestige has a nil wind range of 8500nm.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
You don't judge a route based on the actual mileage flown on any particular day, but by the point to point distance and amount of fuel it takes to do that distance over a number of flights under various conditions.

I guess we should rewrite all the airways charges manuals, as we get charged by the actual miles flown, not the point to point distance. No airline in the world loads fuel for just the point to point distance, it is ALWAYS for established airways. I would run out of fuel every flight if we just loaded fuel for the point to point distance.

There is fantasy world, and real world, the data I posted comes from the real world. The data posted by 9VSRH is also real world data, the CFP that Airpath produces is the flight plan distance (what the FMC says) it actually understates the distance flown as it does not include all the departure and arrival manoeuvring. I would not be surprised if the flight plan that 9VSRH was run the best part of 100 times to achieve the most optimum routing.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):
I dont think the winds are a factor over the North Pole.

They are, it is called the polar jetstream, thats why there are 4 established polar tracks, and the reason why we don't always go near the poles, or why we sometimes goes eastbound from JFK. Flight time variations from day to day can be in excess of 1 hr, just depends on the winds for the day, just as you can see by your flight time, CO schedule time is 40 min longer than what you took, the speed difference between a 772 and 346 is very minor, the biggest difference will be traffic levels at the departure and destination, it has a greater impact on the flight time.
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Kevin777
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:11 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 30):
Quoting EA772LR (Reply 26):
And why on earth do the 345/346 series weigh so dang much? I fully laden 346X weighs 835,000lbs while its competition 773ER weighs 60,000lbs less. thats a hell of a lot of dead weight.

The two extra engines are heavy. There's nothing much they can do except get rid of the extra engines.

Which is exactly what they're doing now at Airbus, I guess... as another a.netter put it recently: The A350: 2 good 2 need 4 engines... But the 346 is one beautiful bird

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 31):
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 27):
Cathay Pacific's JFK to Hong Kong is the longest regulary scheduled A346 flight. Virgin Atlantic has many 14 hour flights from Asia to LHR but they are two hours less then Cathay from JFK.

Incidentally, I flew the CX JFK-HKG flight this past December on a trip to see some friends. That flight was unbelievably long (17.5 hours) when the longest I've spent on a plane was 13.5 hours. Honestly I didn't know the flight was that long until I actually asked the check-in clerk (yeah, I know I'm not a rabid A-nutter). Thank God for IFE and free booze otherwise I would have been bored out of my mind and unable to get some shuteye.

17,5 hours is very, very long indeed, and I thought only the 345 (especially modified with extra fuel capacity) could do this - not the 346. How much further can the 345 then take you compared to a 346 then? Can't be that much. Or, are CX' 346 especially fitted with extra fuel capacity?

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cloudyapple
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RE: Longest Route For The A346?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
Even the "longest flights" world records measure the distance between the way-points they registered, NOT the actual mileage flown. The 77L flight that broke the record flew much further than their "record" distance to capture favorable winds. Those extra miles don't count...

You seemed to have been VERY confused with what you were trying to present. The flight-planned waypoint to waypoint distances, when summed up, would equal or be very close to the actual mileage flown (unless one has to deviate from the route for some reason or gets short tracked), which you stated otherwise. This distance would certainly be higher than the great circle distance. It's an elementary concept of time-space - distance vs displacement.

The B772LR flight that went eastbound (or the wrong way) from Hong Kong to Heathrow made it because it went for as much tailwind as possible but still it followed established waypoints and routes. This path was flight-planned. Air traffic control would never let it wander randomly "to capture the wind" even if it's on a world record attempt. The distance measured was the actual path that it took, projected onto the ground. The flight would not have become a world record holder if it was measured origin direct destination by your logic.

I'm also completely baffled by your comment:

Quote:
distance to capture favorable winds. Those extra miles don't count...

What counted if those miles didn't?
Did it deviate for wind?
What was its nominal path from which extra miles were added to capture the wind?

Wouldn't the nominal path have been the one that:
  • went eastbound from Hong Kong to Heathrow (being the point of the flight);
  • followed all established airspace infrastructure;
  • had the best wind of the day;

    which incidentally was the one that was filed on the flightplan?

    If one doesn't know, one should not pretend to know.

    [Edited 2007-04-12 14:49:24]
  • A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
     
    YULWinterSkies
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:12 pm

    Quoting EA772LR (Thread starter):
    And does the A346 have the legs to do a LHR to HNL flight?

    That route being ~ 1000 km shorter than JFK-HKG, I would assume so. Now, does the A346 have the right capacity to do a LHR-HNL flight? Well, look at how many HNL-Europe flights there are, and you'll figure it out... Even E coast-HNL is tough, so Europe is worse I'd guess.
    When I doubt... go running!
     
    ComeAndGo
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:31 am

    Yes, but …

    who in Europe wants to go to Honolulu ?

    It's like, say you live in Vancouver and you decide to go skiing in Switzerland . Who would ever do that ? ?
     
    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:48 am

    Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 40):
    who in Europe wants to go to Honolulu?

    I don't think there's any shortage of people who would or do go.... hell, how many religious black gay boys from southeast Louisiana do you think want to/do/have visited Nadi, Palma, Phi Phi Don?

    Answer to both-- not enough to fill a routinely scheduled widebody to yield by a Legacy(-like) carrier.
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    Viscount724
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:09 am

    Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 41):
    Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 40):
    who in Europe wants to go to Honolulu?

    - not enough to fill a routinely scheduled widebody to yield by a Legacy(-like) carrier.

    LH tried FRA-HNL nonstop with a 342 or 343 soon after they put the 340 into service but it didn't last long. Possibly a year or two maximum, about 3 times a week if memory correct. It obviously wasn't a success and there would be zero high-yield business traffic.
    You don't have to fly for 14 or 15 hours from Europe to find sunny beaches. Even places like Mauritius, Seychelles and Maldives are much closer. Most Europeans who do want to visit Hawaii will also want to stop elsewhere in North America en route.
     
    flybyguy
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:10 am

    Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):
    Wow really? I flew EWR-HKG on CO a few years ago when I spent a summer working in NYC and the flying time was right at 15:15 going and 15:20 coming back. I dont think the winds are a factor over the North Pole. Is the A346 that much slower?


    Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 37):
    17,5 hours is very, very long indeed, and I thought only the 345 (especially modified with extra fuel capacity) could do this - not the 346. How much further can the 345 then take you compared to a 346 then? Can't be that much. Or, are CX' 346 especially fitted with extra fuel capacity?
    I'm not sure about the specifics of the CX A346 (auxiliary fuel tanks, endurance, etc.) all I know is roughly how long it took that long for us to get to Hong Kong. Perhaps the plane was flying at a slower cruise speed to conserve fuel. Certainly these questions can be answered by CX flight crew if there are any on A.net.

    [Edited 2007-04-13 01:11:39]
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    gigneil
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:33 am

    Quoting EA772LR (Reply 26):
    As far as efficiency goes, tho not completely comparable in seating capacity, how does the 346 stack up against the 744 or 744ER?

    The 346 blows the 747 away, just as the 777-300ER does.

    Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 30):
    The two extra engines are heavy. There's nothing much they can do except get rid of the extra engines.

    That has little to do with it. The aircraft itself is structurally inefficient. They could have built a lighter 4 engine plane.

    NS
     
    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:01 pm

    Quoting Gigneil (Reply 44):
    The 346 blows

    ...true, very true.

    Quoting Gigneil (Reply 44):
    The aircraft itself is structurally inefficient.

     checkmark 

    Quoting Gigneil (Reply 44):
    They could have built a lighter 4 engine plane.

    Indeed, though "question" is-- why did they choose not to?
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    OldAeroGuy
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:09 pm

    Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 38):
    The B772LR flight that went eastbound (or the wrong way) from Hong Kong to Heathrow made it because it went for as much tailwind as possible but still it followed established waypoints and routes. This path was flight-planned. Air traffic control would never let it wander randomly "to capture the wind" even if it's on a world record attempt. The distance measured was the actual path that it took, projected onto the ground. The flight would not have become a world record holder if it was measured origin direct destination by your logic.



    Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 38):
    What counted if those miles didn't?
    Did it deviate for wind?
    What was its nominal path from which extra miles were added to capture the wind?

    The rules for establishing a distance record for the NAA state that:

    - No more than three turnpoints are allowed in setting a distance record between the takeoff and landing points.

    - The great circle distance between any two points are the only distance that can be counted toward the record.

    - Turnpoints must be declared prior to takeoff and cannot be changed in flight.

    When the 772LR set the distance record, the legs were as follows:

    HKG - Slightly north of Midway
    Slight north of Midway - LAX
    LAX - JFK
    JFK - LHR

    Between the turnpoints, the 772LR flew airways that were designed to maximize the tail wind component. This resulted in the ground distance flown being greater than the great circle route between turn points. For instance, during the North of Midway - LAX leg, the airplane flew much closer to the US West Coast than the great circle route, making landfall near SFO and paralleling the coast to LAX.

    However, the sum of the great circles was the only distance that could be claimed for the record, not the sum of the actual ground track distance.
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    timz
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:18 pm

    "LAX" and "JFK" meaning the VORs there? Or some arbitrary lat-lon on the airport? What was the lat-lon north of Midway?

    Any idea what the turnpoints were for the previous 777 record (Seattle-Kuala Lumpur)?
     
    OldAeroGuy
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:29 pm

    Quoting Timz (Reply 47):
    "LAX" and "JFK" meaning the VORs there? Or some arbitrary lat-lon on the airport?

    Don't know, but probably the same Lat/Lon used by Great Circle Mapper.

    Quoting Timz (Reply 47):
    What was the lat-lon north of Midway?

    About 35N, 180W

    Quoting Timz (Reply 47):
    Any idea what the turnpoints were for the previous 777 record (Seattle-Kuala Lumpur)?

    Don't know.
    Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
     
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    zeke
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    RE: Longest Route For The A346?

    Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:12 am

    Quoting Timz (Reply 47):
    "LAX" and "JFK" meaning the VORs there?

    Aerodrome referance point, often where the rotating tower beacon is.
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