NAV20
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Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:25 pm

Just in case any of you guys thought that there is no justice. This confirms your earlier impression!  

(Excerpts - link to full story below) -

"PARIS: Socialist French presidential candidate Segolene Royal said Wednesday she was scandalized by the €8.56 million (US$11.49 million) severance package for the former co-chief of Airbus parent EADS, insisting the French government should have blocked it.

"Royal said Noel Forgeard's golden parachute was "a scandal, a provocation, especially in this company, where the state is a shareholder."

"Forgeard's resignation came after it became apparent that delays with the industrial ramp-up of the Airbus A380 superjumbo would have a severe financial impact on EADS."


Sure, he still faces possible prosecution for insider trading - since he sold about $US4B.-worth of EADS shares just before the shit hit the fan. But at least he'll be able to afford the very best lawyers for his defence:-

"Forgeard sold his EADS stock several weeks prior to that information being made public, but has claimed since then that he was unaware of the seriousness of Airbus's problems at that time. He and several of his former colleagues are still being investigated over the share sales.

"In late February, Airbus announced plans to slash 10,000 jobs to help recover from a two-year delay to the superjumbo that wiped some €5 billion (US$6.7 billion) off of profit forecasts for 2006-2010."


http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...ess/EU-FIN-France-Royal-Airbus.php

[Edited 2007-04-11 15:27:18]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Lumberton
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:31 pm

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that Forgeard was a...well, there's no nice way to say this, a (gasp!) capitalist!  duck 
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
NAV20
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 1):
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that Forgeard was a...well, there's no nice way to say this, a (gasp!) capitalist!

Living in Oz, I can think of another (seven-letter) word in common use, Lumberton. But I'd need documentary proof of his parentage to be sure. In strict legal terms, anyway........  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
since he sold about $US4B.-worth of EADS shares just before the shit hit the fan. But at least he'll be able to afford the very best lawyers for his defence:-

I reckon there's a B and a M swap goign on there - if Foregard really sold $4B worth of shares he would have sold the equivalent of 35% of Airbus Big grin
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:11 pm

Foregard is the poster child for all that has gone wrong at Airbus.

It is shocking that public money may have been used to offer him a golden parachute, while 10,000 workers are being laid off.

Seems to be another political hot potato in France.
 
NAV20
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:11 pm

Look it up under "Directors' Dealings' on the EADS site, Scouseflyer. EADS shares were at about E35.00 then. The 'good old days'........

With all due respect, I think you're also getting your millions mixed up with your billions. A common mistake nowadays - my own pocket calculator is woefully out of date, just WON'T show enough noughts for modern business......  Smile

[Edited 2007-04-11 16:21:53]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 4):
Seems to be another political hot potato in France.

A valid point and one that is more complex that M Forgeards severence package, as you note;

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 4):
while 10,000 workers are being laid off.

With a Presidential Election looming the candidates are taking a more public stance, even going so far as to call for the validation of the Power8 Program;

Royal reiterated that she wants Airbus to scrap its Power8 cost-cutting program.

''I'm asking Airbus leaders to withdraw the whole plan to review the industrial strategy and the way job cuts are justified,'' she said. ''Are they job cuts for the market or are they justified by an industrial strategy?''

Airbus plans to eliminate 10,000 jobs and will sell or find partners for six plants in a reorganization targeting 2.1 billion euros in annual savings by 2010. Presidential frontrunner Sarkozy has also questioned the job cuts ahead of elections that begin April 22.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...conews&tkr=EAD:FP&sid=alfaeWs5nB9E

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
NAV20
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:36 pm

Sincere apologies, Scouseflyer - for Forgeard having sold off $4B. in the opening post, please read $4M.........you were quite right, typo!

Beats me how these buggers tell the difference, though. Me, I'd lose count after the first million...........  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:50 pm

I wonder how much pay is required to incentivize someone to willingly choose to run Airbus--facing politicians and labor groups who will block every change for the wrong reason as the entire company continues further down the toilet. I don't know if there is a big enough number Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
Sincere apologies, Scouseflyer - for Forgeard having sold off $4B. in the opening post, please read $4M.........you were quite right, typo!

Beats me how these buggers tell the difference, though. Me, I'd lose count after the first million...........

True - wish that I had that problem!
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:41 am

After 15 deletions please stay on topic and keep the discussion within the forum rules. Thank you.
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
OceansWorld
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:52 am

Simply put: IT'S A SHAME!!! Thousands of persons are to lose their jobs because of people like him, and they won't get a golden parachute. He put the company in a tail spin, but still can get away like that with his pockets full of  dollarsign .
 
EI321
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:04 am

Guys its how things work at the top.

If you want the best you must pay the best packages. Chances are these multi million euro/dollar severance figures are written into the employment terms.

Quote:

3M's James McNerney, who replaced Boeing CEO Harry Stonecipher in June, received $25.3 million in Boeing stock to compensate him for losing potential payouts at 3M. His last six months at 3M proved lucrative, too. He got almost $41 million — $8.4 million in compensation and $32.4 million exercising 3M stock options. There was no golden parachute for Stonecipher, forced out after the revelation of an affair with a subordinate. But Stonecipher made $39.5 million, including $11 million in incentive pay and $26.9 million exercising stock options.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/compan...4-09-ceo-compensation-report_x.htm
 
flysherwood
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
If you want the best you must pay the best packages. Chances are these multi million euro/dollar severance figures are written into the employment terms.

If you think Mr. Forgeard is the best than I have some other names for you, such as Ken Lay, Dennis Kozlowski etc... Are you really serious?!?! What the heck?
 
zvezda
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:00 am

This gives us a better idea what level of fine would be appropriate to impose for his apparrent insider trading, in addition to a lengthy jail sentence.
 
EI321
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 13):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
If you want the best you must pay the best packages. Chances are these multi million euro/dollar severance figures are written into the employment terms.

If you think Mr. Forgeard is the best than I have some other names for you, such as Ken Lay, Dennis Kozlowski etc... Are you really serious?!?! What the heck?

Yes, he was the best when he was hired.
 
flysherwood
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 15):
Yes, he was the best when he was hired

Ouch! No wonder Airbus is in the shape it is now.
 
EI321
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 16):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 15):
Yes, he was the best when he was hired

Ouch! No wonder Airbus is in the shape it is now.

You seem to be forgeting a few things. Airbus did not become the worlds largest producer of airlines by chance. Could you name somebody who would be better?
 
NAV20
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 17):
Airbus did not become the worlds largest producer of airlines by chance. Could you name somebody who would be better?

Yes. Pierson, who ran Airbus before EADS was formed in 2000, and the likes of Forgeard took charge.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Lumberton
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 17):
Could you name somebody who would be better?

What about this guy who runs an LCC in Ireland? I'm sure he'd fit in well with the socialists in France.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
PADSpot
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 19):
What about this guy who runs an LCC in Ireland? I'm sure he'd fit in well with the socialists in France.

Why so? The last environment that guy would like to work in is a highly regulated, bureaucratic, government-controlled, multi-product, multi-national technology enterprise!
 
Lumberton
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 20):
Why so?

I knew I should have included the smiley.  Wink It was an attempt at humor. . . .
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
flysherwood
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 17):
You seem to be forgeting a few things. Airbus did not become the worlds largest producer of airlines by chance. Could you name somebody who would be better?

Yes, Allan Mullaly!  Wink
 
PVG
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 11):
Simply put: IT'S A SHAME!!! Thousands of persons are to lose their jobs because of people like him, and they won't get a golden parachute. He put the company in a tail spin, but still can get away like that with his pockets full of .

Happens everyday, and not just in France! Chainsaw Al, Enron, and the guy who just got fired at Home Depot, Michael Ovtiz, and the Tyco guy come to mind without having to do any research. Plenty more incompetent managers who fleece the shareholders and public on a daily basis because it's supposedly difficult to find great managers.

Fact is there are relatively few super managers who really deserve top level compensation. The rest are just employees who have managed to convince everyone of their greatness, or someone's son/nephew/cousin/pal and get paid for having the right bloodlines/friends.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting NAV20 (Thread starter):
Forgeard sold his EADS stock several weeks prior to that information being made public, but has claimed since then that he was unaware of the seriousness of Airbus's problems at that time.

I don't buy it. Regardless of what Forgeard claims, I have the feeling that he indeed knew about the problems and is trying to cover up a sale that can be considered insider trading. IMO Forgeard belongs to prison for that.

Also, the money Forgeard is getting as severance pay could have easily been used to save a few more jobs or at least to offset a little the losses they made. It may not be much, but it would have been a start, yet they still decide to waste tax payer's money, just to give it to Forgeard as a Golden Parachute. I'm personally appaled by this.
 
scotron11
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 24):

I don't buy it. Regardless of what Forgeard claims, I have the feeling that he indeed knew about the problems and is trying to cover up a sale that can be considered insider trading. IMO Forgeard belongs to prison for that.

I tend to agree. I was quite shocked but as mentioned in other posts, I shouldn't have been as it happens everyday in every industry.

I would like to know what his credentials were to lead Airbus? Wasn't he a political apointee because of his close ties to Chirac? That "squeaky" clean former mayor of Paris?
 
zvezda
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 24):
Regardless of what Forgeard claims, I have the feeling that he indeed knew about the problems and is trying to cover up a sale that can be considered insider trading. IMO Forgeard belongs to prison for that.

The only way Forgeard could have been ignorant of the WhaleJet fiasco at the time he exercised his options was if he had been aggressively ignorant: for example, if he had given orders to his subordinates that he didn't want to hear any bad news.
 
EI321
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:05 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 17):
Airbus did not become the worlds largest producer of airlines by chance. Could you name somebody who would be better?

Yes. Pierson, who ran Airbus before EADS was formed in 2000, and the likes of Forgeard took charge.

Ok, but I assume that both the A340-500, A340-600 & A380 were concieved under his leadership?
 
NAV20
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 27):
Ok, but I assume that both the A340-500, A340-600 & A380 were concieved under his leadership?

A340 yes - but the 500/600 was finally proceeded with after Forgeard took over in 1998. The A380 was only at concept stage when Pierson left - that venture was solely Forgeard's baby. Most important, Pierson was pressing for Airbus to become a fully-independent commercial company with less, not more, political involvement. Forgeard allowed - even encouraged - the opposite to happen.

[Edited 2007-04-12 13:16:37]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
EI321
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:01 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 28):
Most important, Pierson was pressing for Airbus to become a fully-independent commercial company with less, not more, political involvement. Forgeard allowed - even encouraged - the opposite to happen.

Forgeard was a very vocal critic of the dual CEO system, thats well known! There was just too much conflict of interests.

[Edited 2007-04-12 13:02:36]
 
NAV20
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 29):
Forgeard was a very vocal critic of the dual CEO system, thats well known!

Yes, we can agree there. He wanted a single CEO all right - three guesses who he had in mind to fill the post!

The REAL and continuing bug in the system was organising things so that the French and German blocs each appointed half the Board; a recipe for deadlock. I can't believe that Pierson - or ANY CEO, other than Forgeard - would have entertained a notion as silly as that for a moment.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
EI321
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 30):
The REAL and continuing bug in the system was organising things so that the French and German blocs each appointed half the Board; a recipe for deadlock. I can't believe that Pierson - or ANY CEO, other than Forgeard - would have entertained a notion as silly as that for a moment.

I think Forgeard took blame for some things which other people at airbus were equally to blame for. If the food is bad, blame the chef, not just the waiter!
 
NAV20
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 31):
If the food is bad, blame the chef, not just the waiter!

President Harry Truman had a sign on his desk that said, "The buck stops here!" I think every CEO should have one.  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
flysherwood
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:27 am

]

Quoting EI321 (Reply 31):
think Forgeard took blame for some things which other people at airbus were equally to blame for. If the food is bad, blame the chef, not just the waiter!

I have to agree with you there. So why the hell does John Leahy still have a job? Wasn't he the one who started selling the virtues of the PTV systems that the Airframe could accommodate? Wasn't that one of the major wiring issues that delayed the plane? Wasn't he one of the decision makers for the different iterations of the A350 which is costing them an extra $ 7-10 billion in development costs? By the way, It still floors me that you consider Forgeard a competent CEO!!!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 33):
So why the hell does John Leahy still have a job?

Because he's continuing to sell A380s, A340s and A330s even with the issues affecting the former one and the threat of the 787 affecting the latter two.

[Edited 2007-04-12 21:50:30]
 
flysherwood
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RE: Forgeard Walked Away From Eads With $US11.49M.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
Because he's continuing to sell A380s, A340s and A330s even with the issues affecting the former one and the threat of the 787 affecting the latter two.

Really? When was the last time he sold an A380 or a A340-600?  Wink

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