Steve332
Topic Author
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Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:41 pm

Hi,

I have a question Im hoping to get answered.

Lets say we have a pilot from SQ flying the 744, Would he also fly 744's with SQ Cargo or would he only fly pax???

Same goes for anyother airlines that operate both pax and cargo varients of the same aircraft I.E AF 777, NW 744 ect.

Cheers
Steve.

[Edited 2007-04-11 16:45:55]
 
KingAir200
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:51 pm

I know that at NW, pilots who fly the 747-200 fly both passenger flights and cargo flights.
 
adriaticus
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:01 am

I guess that would depend mostly on their contracts... But I don't see why not (unless, of course, the cargo branch is a separate company of the pax branch, which happens every so often).

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smokeyrosco
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:05 am

convertible 737's often fly into the DUB during the summer months as charters, they can easily be stripped of their seats and used as cargo aircraft, which means it would be the same rating so I don't see why not.... now the question I suppose would be do they

Correction: they fly in year round, it's just during the summer is the only time I see them with Pax instead of packages.

[Edited 2007-04-11 17:08:11]
John Hancock
 
amirs
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:21 am

I know that LY pilots flew both pax and cargo 747-200 when LY still had pax 742's.
 
goboeing
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:30 am

Northwest Airlines ANC based B-747-200 pilots fly both the NWA Cargo flights and the 747-200 passenger flights. There are only a couple passenger -200s remaining, however, and soon those crews will fly nothing but cargo.
 
ktachiya
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:31 am

On JL and NH, pilots are divided into those that operate pax ac and cargo ac.

The significant difference is that on cargo jumbos, approach speeds are much faster compared to pax jets. I have read in magazines that this is due to fuel consumption.

For instance, a pax flight originating in say NRT and going to destinations in North America would burn quite a lot of fuel in the process and get lighter by the time they arrive at their destination. That is what enables the plane to be at flt level 390 when they reach North America.

But the bulk of cargo aircraft is cargo. This does not get burned off when reaching their destination. So inevitably, the aircraft would have to approach at a faster speed to maintain its stability.

So I have heard of pilots that went from ANA to NCA, but they had to go through a lot of training to do so.

So I think on any airline, there is nothing like flying a pax flight one day, and going cargo a couple of days later.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:47 am

AS Pilots fly the 734 Combis . . . . and of course, the 734F and 734s all the time.
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PhilSquares
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 6):
The significant difference is that on cargo jumbos, approach speeds are much faster compared to pax jets. I have read in magazines that this is due to fuel consumption.

It's not that big of a deal. At MLW Vref (flaps 30) is about 157 while at 250 tonnes, normal pax landing weight, Vref (flaps 30) is about 144. So, it's about 13 kias difference, which isn't a big thing at all. The difference in approach speeds is due to the higher ZFW of the freighters vs. passenger aircraft. Freight doesn't care if has to stop in ANC while passengers want to go non-stop.

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 6):
So I think on any airline, there is nothing like flying a pax flight one day, and going cargo a couple of days later.

It really depends on the airline and the contractual limits at each airline. From a regulatory standpoint, it's a 747-400 type rating, not a passenger rating or a 747-400F rating.
Fly fast, live slow
 
crownvic
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:04 am

Okay where are the experts, I am not buying the answer given above that cargo planes arrive lighter than their passenger counterparts......If a fully loaded 747 takes off from Narita with passengers for LAX versus a fully loaded 747 with cargo to LAX (assuming nearly identical takeoff weights), how does the passenger plane arrive lighter than the cargo plane?????
 
swissy
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:04 am

MP MD11 crews fly them both pax & cargo however based on what they told me they either do not care or cargo only

Cheers,
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 9):
If a fully loaded 747 takes off from Narita with passengers for LAX versus a fully loaded 747 with cargo to LAX (assuming nearly identical takeoff weights), how does the passenger plane arrive lighter than the cargo plane?????

The freighter stops in ANC and the pax flight goes non-stop. If they had the same ZFW and the same fuel burn and both went non-stop to LAX then Vref would be the same.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Norcal773
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting Steve332 (Thread starter):
Lets say we have a pilot from SQ flying the 744, Would he also fly 744's with SQ Cargo or would he only fly pax???

I thought you were describing PhilSquares there for a minute.  biggrin 
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Steve332
Topic Author
Posts: 114
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 12):


I thought you were describing PhilSquares there for a minute.

Actually now that you mention it I saw his profile and wondered it then,
Based in SIN so its pretty obivous whoo he flies the 744 for!!  Silly
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 8):
It's not that big of a deal.

Phil only flies freight, cos packages can't give him grief for the landing as they de-board ::::fleeing fast::::

Shamu
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dxBrian
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 9):
If a fully loaded 747 takes off from Narita with passengers for LAX versus a fully loaded 747 with cargo to LAX (assuming nearly identical takeoff weights), how does the passenger plane arrive lighter than the cargo plane?????

Your assumption is in error. A fully loaded freighter for LAX-NRT will not have a nearly identical weight as a passenger aircraft operating LAX-NRT. Based on today's conditions, a 747-400 freighter could carry about 200,000 lbs from LAX to NRT. A 747-400 passenger airplane COULD carry the same weight, BUT will carry only 140-150,000 lbs. As a rough figure, a 747-400 freighter main deck capacity is 200,000 lbs. The main deck on a passenger airplane will top out at around 100,000 lbs, based on 500 seats at 200 lbs each. If each passenger has 60 lbs of bags, that's another 30,000 lbs, and the total load on that flight will be 130,000 lbs or so plus any freight. But in most cases, bags occupy more volume than an equivalent weight of freight will so the freight carried on the baggage compartments will be less as well.

However, as stated above, the freighter will probably stop in ANC for fuel in order to carry the max payload.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Do Pilots Fly Both Pax And Cargo Aircraft?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting Steve332 (Thread starter):
Lets say we have a pilot from SQ flying the 744, Would he also fly 744's with SQ Cargo or would he only fly pax???

As others have noted, it pretty much depends from carrier to carrier. As far as SQ specifically is concerned, I believe that the answer depends on which Singapore Airlines the pilot works for.

If a pilot is hired by Singapore Airlines Cargo (ICAO:SQC), said pilot will fly only freighter aircraft. On the other hand, if a pilot works for Singapore Airlines mainline (ICAO:SIA), the pilot can fly both pax and cargo planes.
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