papatango
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Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:14 am

With the addition of the 13 ex twa/aa 757-200er's starting in July 2007, some 767-300er's will be replaced on shorter routes by the 757. What new routes do you see for Delta utilizing the freed up 767's?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Papatango (Thread starter):
With the addition of the 13 ex twa/aa 757-200er's starting in July 2007, some 767-300er's will be replaced on shorter routes by the 757. What new routes do you see for Delta utilizing the freed up 767's?

Perhaps some more routes to Africa, or some longer European routes.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
curticool
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:35 am

Delta Retire The 767-300ER And Use The Longer Ranged Newer 767-400ER More Often
I Don't Know When This Will Go In Effect Probably 2008-2009
N102DA
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Curticool (Reply 2):
Delta Retire The 767-300ER And Use The Longer Ranged Newer 767-400ER More Often

...not going to happen, except for the fleet-oddballs.

That, and the 763ER has longer range than the 764ER.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Curticool (Reply 2):
Delta Retire The 767-300ER And Use The Longer Ranged Newer 767-400ER More Often
I Don't Know When This Will Go In Effect Probably 2008-2009

No, that will not happen. While Delta intends on converting all of their 767-400 fleet to international, they will mostly be used on major European routes. The 767-300ERs will continue to serve longer, less popular routes from ATL and JFK, and the ex-TWA 757s will serve some smaller European destinations from JFK.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
UN_B732
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:00 am

yeah, the 764 simply doesn't have the legs for places like IST, DKR, SVO, KBP, etc.
-A
What now?
 
B752OS
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:28 am

Is DL content using the 763 for all of this international expansion? For an airline that touts they are the fastest growing, they sure have a pretty small widebody fleet, when I say widebody I mean 744, 346, 343, 772, 77W.
 
curticool
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:32 am

That surprises me the Delta is keeping there ageing 300ER's most airlines have stored there 200's and 300's
and replaced them with the 400ER'S
N102DA
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Curticool (Reply 7):
That surprises me the Delta is keeping there ageing 300ER's most airlines have stored there 200's and 300's
and replaced them with the 400ER'S

Um, Delta and Continental are the only operators of the 767-400ER. The 767-300ER is still in service with many airlines. Once Delta orders the 787 we will likely be seeing the 767-300ERs replaced.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
AV8AJET
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:36 am

I would love to see ATL-GLA!!!! PLEASE start this one, ATL-EDI is great but I would love DL to start GLA service. Maybe now that AC & AA have left the GLA market maybe DL can make it work. I don't see DL starting JFK-GLA/EDI due to the CO EWR service so close to JFK...never know though.
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
28thguy
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:03 am

Any thoughts on whether any trans-Pacific routes are possible from LAX using 763? 763 was used by Asiana for SEA-SEL in the past, although obviously LAX is further from Asia than SEA.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 6):
Is DL content using the 763 for all of this international expansion? For an airline that touts they are the fastest growing, they sure have a pretty small widebody fleet, when I say widebody I mean 744, 346, 343, 772, 77W.

How are those any more of a widebody than their 767s? I fail to see the logic here.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 11):
How are those any more of a widebody than their 767s? I fail to see the logic here

Because for some, it's all about size  Wink



That being said, the 76's legs are just starting to be stretched by Delta....
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 6):
when I say widebody I mean 744, 346, 343, 772, 77W.

What you consider to be what is of immeasurable inconsequence...

...the fact remains that with 142 such aircraft, DL possesses one of the largest widebody fleets of any airline flying.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
B752OS
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13):
What you consider to be what is of immeasurable inconsequence...

...the fact remains that with 142 such aircraft, DL possesses one of the largest widebody fleets of any airline flying.

Let me rephrase my comments. Considering DL is expanding internationally, Asia is an area where they would need larger/longer range aircraft, i.e 772 or 345, is DL content with only having 8 772 and a few 772lrs on order?
 
Avatordon
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:50 am

Would like to see both WAW and LIS added to the network.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 14):
is DL content with only having 8 772 and a few 772lrs on order?

That may change.

DL's 763ER are some of the best maintained a/c out there. DL will find new routes or double up on capacity for existing ones. I'd like to see SVO go 2x daily.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:57 am

Here are some routes that I think we will possibly be seeing the 767-400 on once all of them are converted:
  • ATL-CDG (2x)
  • ATL-MXP (1x)
  • ATL-FCO (1x)
  • ATL-LGW (2x)
  • ATL-FRA (1x)
  • ATL-LHR   (1x or 2x)
  • ATL-MAN (1x)
  • ATL-HNL (1x)
  • JFK-LGW (1x)
  • JFK-SNN (1x)
  • JFK-CDG (1x)
  • JFK-LHR (1x)
  • CVG-FCO (1x)


Since all 21 of the 767-400s are being converted, I am sure there will be a few more routes that what I listed. This will free some of the 767-300ERs on longer routes. On some of the routes, we may also see some 767-300ERs operating together with the 767-400ERs. The ex-TWA 757s will likely serve some of the minor European destinations.

[Edited 2007-04-16 01:01:22]
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Evan767
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:05 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 5):
764 simply doesn't have the legs for places like IST, DKR, SVO, KBP, etc.

Sure it does! Delta serves IST, KBP, and SVO from JFK anyway with the exception of ATL-SVO, And ATL-DKR is only something like 4000-4200 miles.

My predictions:
JFK-LED
ATL-WAW
LAX-NRT (Slots permitting)
ATL-REC/FOR/SSA
JFK-SOF
JFK-TLV
JFK-CAI
LAX-NGO
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 18):
My predictions:
JFK-LED
ATL-WAW
LAX-NRT (Slots permitting)
ATL-REC/FOR/SSA
JFK-SOF
JFK-TLV
JFK-CAI
LAX-NGO

Is that for the 767-300ER or 767-400ER? I don't think that those routes could really fill a 767-400ER.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
rwsea
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 17):
ATL-CDG (2x)
ATL-MXP (1x)
ATL-FCO (1x)
ATL-LGW (2x)
ATL-FRA (1x)
ATL-LHR (1x or 2x)
ATL-MAN (1x)
ATL-HNL (1x)
JFK-LGW (1x)
JFK-SNN (1x)
JFK-CDG (1x)
JFK-LHR (1x)
CVG-FCO (1x)

I'd take JFK-SNN off that list (perfect candidate for a 752) and CVG-FCO, but add CVG-LGW and CVG-CDG. We could also expect to see the 764 on ATL-JFK-JNB if the route is doing well (and maybe even a 77L in the future).

I also think your list will work great in the summer, but would need cutbacks in the winter. Thus, the 764s could go to EZE and GRU in the winter (especially EZE).

As far as future routes on the 763s, how about:
JFK - LED, WAW, CAI, TLV, MUC, ZRH, GVA, LYS, Casablanca, NBO (via somewhere in West Africa)
ATL - GLA, ARN, PSA, LIS, HNL (replace the 764)
LAX - KIX, NGO, FUK, ICN, GRU
FLL/MIA - GRU, CDG

And for fun, how about the 752 routes?
JFK - SNN, DUB, MAN, GLA, LIS, HAM
SLC - OGG, KOA
LAX - KOA
FLL /MIA - ???
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 19):
s that for the 767-300ER or 767-400ER? I don't think that those routes could really fill a 767-400ER.

A number of those routes would have difficulty filling a 763. ATL-WAW (as much as I love Poland and would love to see it) comes to mind.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 20):
As far as future routes on the 763s, how about:
JFK - LED, WAW, CAI, TLV, MUC, ZRH, GVA, LYS, Casablanca, NBO (via somewhere in West Africa)
ATL - GLA, ARN, PSA, LIS, HNL (replace the 764)
LAX - KIX, NGO, FUK, ICN, GRU
FLL/MIA - GRU, CDG

There's some interesting thoughts there...

 Wink
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 20):
Thus, the 764s could go to EZE and GRU in the winter (especially EZE).

DL execs specifically said at the recent investor conference that they expect the 764s to be heavily deployed to S. America during the US winter.

Also, CVG-FCO shouldn't surprise anyone as a 764 route. It is one this summer - using a domestic configured a/c. CVGCDG and CVGLGW will be 763s, methinks.

Also, there will be no DL MIA-S. America routes. FLL, very possibly but probably with the 757 because the 763 could be payload limited heading south due to FLL's 9000 ft runway.

Also, Poland is the 2nd largest economy is Eastern Europe IIRC. ATL-WAW is not so far fetched.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 23):

Also, Poland is the 2nd largest economy is Eastern Europe IIRC. ATL-WAW is not so far fetched.

Poland also has far more service to the U.S. than any other eastern European country. LO flies 42 weekly flights in the summer (not counting the new JFK-RZE service), and LO can handily undersell any American carrier due to their far lower labor costs.

While it's true that some of this difference is attributable to the massive amount of VFR traffic in the market, especially from Chicago but also from NYC/Philly, I'm not sure how much traffic there really is for DL to pick up. A solid competitor can really trash an already questionable route.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Avatordon
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:47 am

JFK-EZE might be a possibility as well with new US - Argentina bilateral.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 14):

Let me rephrase my comments. Considering DL is expanding internationally, Asia is an area where they would need larger/longer range aircraft, i.e 772 or 345, is DL content with only having 8 772 and a few 772lrs on order?

DL will begin using 763ERs from LAX-Asia as early as 2008, most likely 2009. DL has likely the most potential of any airline on earth with its current widebody fleet. Don't forget there's also another 24 767-300 domestic aircraft which DL will be getting ETOPS for this summer for flights from LAX and SLC to Hawaii, so in the future those aircraft could also be placed on a few JFK-Europe routes as well. The possibilities are immense.

Jeremy
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
Poland also has far more service to the U.S. than any other eastern European country.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
A solid competitor can really trash an already questionable route.

sounds like you want to keep Poland as a nice little spot for LO. Poland should have plenty of air service to the US; although none of it is on a US airline. DL is well aware of what kind of traffic Poland can generate... they have served it before. And they also realize they need a significant amount of business traffic to make a route work. But DL has huge corporate agreements behind it - which include agency accounts that move lots of VFR traffic. Don't underestimate DL's ability to play in the toughest air markets in the world. Besides, the 757s might work very well to fragment the Polish market to some of the smaller cities.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 27):
sounds like you want to keep Poland as a nice little spot for LO.

Well, I flew DL/AF last time I was there (and had a nice experience except for CDG 2B). And I certainly do know that DL is aware of how much traffic Poland generates. It seems to me that there's a reason we haven't yet seen service to WAW (and I wonder if they might serve KRK or KTW before WAW).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 27):
Besides, the 757s might work very well to fragment the Polish market to some of the smaller cities.

SZZ is about the only market that a 752 could serve from JFK (and even that is kind of questionable).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 20):
And for fun, how about the 752 routes?



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 20):
SLC - OGG, KOA
LAX - KOA

I think you'll see ALL SLC-Hawaii operations routed through LAX no matter what a/c after this fall when the schedule comes out. Word is that DL is re-evaluating their direct SLC-Hawaii operations. A SLC-CDG flight or SLC-LGW/LHR route could also come for the 763ERs during the summer of 2008, but beyond experimentation don't expect it to be permanent. All said I expect DL to start right-sizing the SLC hub starting in 2008 much as they did CVG in 2006.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
UN_B732
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:47 am

I also heard some talk of JFK-ZAG, that would be a nice 763 market.
-A
What now?
 
HUYfan
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:48 am

Maybe

Atlanta-Birmingham (763)
Atlanta-Geneva (763)
Atlanta-Hamburg (763)
Atlanta-Istanbul (763)
Atlanta-Lisbon (763)
Atlanta-London LHR (763)
Atlanta-Stockholm ARN (763)
Atlanta-Warsaw (763)

Cincinatti-Dublin (752)
Cincinatti-Manchester (752)
Cincinatti-Milan MXP (763)

New York JFK-Copenhagen (752)
New York JFK-Gothenburg (752)
New York JFK-Lyon (752)
New York JFK-Munich (763)
New York JFK-Newcastle (752)
New York JFK-St.Petersburg (763)
New York JFK-Sofia (763)
New York JFK-Stuttgart (752)
New York JFK-Zagreb (763)

Salt Lake City-Paris CDG (763)

Regards

Mike

[Edited 2007-04-16 19:50:06]
 
B752OS
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 31):
Maybe

Atlanta-Birmingham (763)
Atlanta-Geneva (763)
Atlanta-Hamburg (763)
Atlanta-Istanbul (763)
Atlanta-Lisbon (763)
Atlanta-London LHR (763)
Atlanta-Stockholm ARN (763)
Atlanta-Warsaw (763)

Cincinatti-Dublin (752)
Cincinatti-Manchester (752)
Cincinatti-Milan MXP (763)

New York JFK-Copenhagen (752)
New York JFK-Gothenburg (752)
New York JFK-Lyon (752)
New York JFK-Munich (763)
New York JFK-Newcastle (752)
New York JFK-St.Petersburg (763)
New York JFK-Sofia (763)
New York JFK-Stuttgart (752)
New York JFK-Zagreb (763)

Salt Lake City-Paris CDG (763)

Regards

Mike

That's quite a large expansion out ATL for flights to Europe. I have to ask, wouldn't it make the most sense to have the bulk of the European build up be from JFK, where there is much larger local demand to these cities than ATL? I just can't see an ATL - GVA flight for example having above 10% O&D. I know DL has a HUGE hub down in ATL, but wouldn't they prfer to see more local pax on the flights? DL has been building up a good size domestic network out of JFK, so adding flights to Europ out of JFK might help increase loads on the routes.
 
jr
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:03 am

How about HEL? Will DL ever get into this market from JFK or ATL? Didn't they briefly serve that market in the 90s after taking over Panam's routes? Just seems like AY has this route all to itself and is making a killing on it. I would fly DL over AY any day.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
andaman
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting Jr (Reply 33):
How about HEL? Will DL ever get into this market from JFK or ATL? Didn't they briefly serve that market in the 90s after taking over Panam's routes? Just seems like AY has this route all to itself and is making a killing on it. I would fly DL over AY any day.

I don't think there would be markets for DL. Maybe if they flew 757, like CO to Oslo. The route isn't any gold mine for AY,
they often have offers like 300-400e HEL-JFK return - I only wish they had similar prices for Bangkok for an example, flying time around the same. And they even fly twice a day to BKK in winter.
The competition is rough in US-Europe traffic, 3/4 of the Finns flying to US fly via other European hubs like CPH, LHR, FRA.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
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LTU932
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:03 am

I hope that one day, DL will give HAM another shot, only this time from ATL. Given that, with CO's 757 flight out of EWR and EK's 77W/A345 out of JFK, the NYC market may have already become oversaturated by these two, and given the cancellation of DL's previous JFK-HAM service, maybe giving it a try out ATL might be the better choice.
 
PA101
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:10 am

Quote:
I hope that one day, DL will give HAM another shot, only this time from ATL. Given that, with CO's 757 flight out of EWR and EK's 77W/A345 out of JFK, the NYC market may have already become oversaturated by these two, and given the cancellation of DL's previous JFK-HAM service, maybe giving it a try out ATL might be the better choice.

Well - as much as I'd love to see DL come back to HAM - DL served HAM-ATL before. It started in the late 80s with L1011 service via LGW, then went on to a nonstop with a B763 (continuing to TXL) as DL 66/67 (I think). I flew on these flights as a kid in 1992 and 1994. Then it was axed for the first time in late 1995, and started again in 1997, but just for one or two years (again, I flew that service in the summer of 1998). JFK was never served nonstop, but always via AMS (DL 80/81, if I remember correctly...). Then, I think it was in 1999 or 2000, DL finally left HAM...  Sad
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:22 am

DL finally left Hamburg in February 1999, sad times  Sad . About the JFK flight, not sure when it was operated how, but in 1995, DL operated ATL-HAM-CPH-JFK and vv, on DL68/69. Not sure about other dates, though.
 
PA101
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:30 am

Quote:
About the JFK flight, not sure when it was operated how, but in 1995, DL operated ATL-HAM-CPH-JFK and vv, on DL68/69. Not sure about other dates, though.

Hmm... as far as I know, they never flew it nonstop, even after taking the PA routes (which flew it thrice weekly at one point or another with an A310). In the early 90s (before they axed HAM for the first time), it was scheduled as DL 80/81 via AMS - I flew on that one in October 1994. Didn't even know about the rerouting via CPH... must have been shortly before they axed HAM in late 1995...
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:39 am

DL's transatlantic operation in ATL is very profitable despite it being 80%+ connecting traffic. Local traffic is good but if connecting traffic that is worth more means more profits. DL has the ability to connect hundreds of cities to its tansatlantic flights and fares from those small cities are much higher than from the most competitive east coast cities.

However, I don't think you will see DL adding a whole lot more widebody service to western Europe unless they free up a number of those 767s by downgrading routes using 757s. There are more profitable opportunities to use the 767 and its legs to reach markets much further from the US.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:48 am

How much more expansion to Europe can ATL handle before Concourse F opens? DL does a reasonably good job of spacing out arrivals, but it seems like customs is bursting at the seams for much of the afternoon (even when crowds upstairs at immigration are manageable).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
OB1504
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting Curticool (Reply 2):
Delta Retire The 767-300ER And Use The Longer Ranged Newer 767-400ER More Often
I Don't Know When This Will Go In Effect Probably 2008-2009



Quoting Curticool (Reply 7):
That surprises me the Delta is keeping there ageing 300ER's most airlines have stored there 200's and 300's and replaced them with the 400ER'S

Your profile lists your occupation as "Delta Air Lines pilot". I find it amazing that someone could be a pilot with one of the world's largest and well-known airlines (no matter how many times they mess with the livery), yet not be aware that the 764 is only operated by two carriers, has reduced range compared to the 763 (partly responsible for its lackluster sales, but since the aircraft was really tailored to CO and DL's needs for an L1011/DC10-sized aircraft to use on domestic flights, it achieved its purpose), or that DL, with one of the world's largest 763 fleets and just coming out of bankruptcy, would retire all of them in two years and replace them with the 764.

Of course, all that really matters is that you can fly the airplane safely and in accordance with all FAA regs and such, but it's still surprising that you wouldn't show an interest in some of the other aircraft in the fleet (I'm assuming you don't fly the 763 or 764).

Quoting B752OS (Reply 32):
That's quite a large expansion out ATL for flights to Europe. I have to ask, wouldn't it make the most sense to have the bulk of the European build up be from JFK, where there is much larger local demand to these cities than ATL? I just can't see an ATL - GVA flight for example having above 10% O&D. I know DL has a HUGE hub down in ATL, but wouldn't they prfer to see more local pax on the flights? DL has been building up a good size domestic network out of JFK, so adding flights to Europ out of JFK might help increase loads on the routes.

Considering that some of these routes already have other airlines flying them, it seems to me a wiser choice to send the larger aircraft on the flights from ATL where DL will have a monopoly.

I read in another thread about AA installing winglets on its 763s. Considering the amount of 763s in the Delta fleet and the routes that DL is planning on using them on, I suppose it's only a matter of time for their own 763s to start sporting the winglets, right? Will they also retrofit them with the 777-style flight deck?

[Edited 2007-04-18 02:40:01]
 
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CV880
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting PA101 (Reply 38):
mm... as far as I know, they never flew it nonstop, even after taking the PA routes (which flew it thrice weekly at one point or another with an A310). In the early 90s (before they axed HAM for the first time), it was scheduled as DL 80/81 via AMS - I flew on that one in October 1994. Didn't even know about the rerouting via CPH... must have been shortly before they axed HAM in late 1995...

DL did fly nonstop ATL-HAM using 763's before they pulled out for the last time. Also flew A310's out of JFK to FBU, ARN, HEL, CPH and 727's out of FRA to places like WAW, OTP, PRG if I'm not mistaken.
 
exusair
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:59 am

All pure speculation but submitted with great thought and a few drinks.

From JFK ...If Kitty Hawk was the cradle of aviation, JFK is the diaper bin of aviation........

DUB ( 757 )
SNN ( 757 )
LYS ( 757 ) speculation
NCE ( 757 ) yeah you heard me...NCE to be downgraded. Just a thought.
LIS ( 757 ) speculation
CMN ( 757 ) speculation
MRS ( 757 ) speculation
MAN ( 757 ) speculation. Also think flight will op 2x daily 757 equipment.

TLV ( 767 ) Will be >12 hrs. Will need 180 degree rest facility for pilot crew. Will be one of first routes with new Biz Elite bed seats......as well as ATL-LOS.
DKR / NBO ( 767 ) Speculation from another poster
CAI ( 767 ) speculation

From ATL ...When a southerner dies, whether you're going to heaven or hell, you'll have to connect through ATL....

LPB ( 757 ) speculation
SSA ( 757 ) speculation
SNN ( 757 ) speculation

LOS ( 767 ) announced. Starts 12/07 Flight will be >12 hrs block. Will need 180 degree rest facility for pilot crew. Will be one of first routes operated with new Biz Elite bed seats....Followed probably by JFK - LHR/LGW...


I've conjured up 11 routes for a subfleet of 13 a/c ex AA/TWA 757-200's.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting Exusair (Reply 43):
From ATL ...When a southerner dies, whether you're going to heaven or hell, you'll have to connect through ATL....

LPB ( 757 ) speculation

If they went to Bolivia, it'd be VVI. It's a more prosperous part of the country and has most of the oil and gas industry traffic.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
PA101
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:11 pm

@CV880

Quote:
DL did fly nonstop ATL-HAM using 763's before they pulled out for the last time. Also flew A310's out of JFK to FBU, ARN, HEL, CPH and 727's out of FRA to places like WAW, OTP, PRG if I'm not mistaken.

Jup - you are right. My comment about DL 80/81 was in regards to HAM-JFK that was never served nonstop by DL, even though PA did before... HAM-ATL was actually served for quite some time (as DL 66/67 at first... I don't know about the flight number they used from 1997 to 1999).
 
panamair
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:17 pm

Quoting Exusair (Reply 43):
NCE ( 757 ) yeah you heard me...NCE to be downgraded. Just a thought.

Possible for the winter only....The summer loads particularly up front are pretty incredible...There are not too many flights out there that sell out the front cabin 2-3 months in advance but NCE almost always does it from mid-June on (and DL even blocks out the discounted Business "I" fares in this market during those times, so people are either paying the high J and D fares, or they are redeeming a hefty 250K miles each for that award ticket in J).

The other possible downgrade is JFK-TXL, at least for the winter. Even AMS, BRU, or FRA from JFK could use the downgrade during the deep winter.

Quoting PA101 (Reply 45):
My comment about DL 80/81 was in regards to HAM-JFK that was never served nonstop by DL, even though PA did before

Slightly OT but I remember PA even flying 747s between JFK and HAM (PA46/47 I believe) initially, before switching to the A310s later on. Yes, DL80/81 always operated JFK-AMS-HAM and v.v. with the L15 and then later with the 763.
 
DLBOIFIN
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 34):
I don't think there would be markets for DL.



Quoting Andaman (Reply 34):
The competition is rough in US-Europe traffic, 3/4 of the Finns flying to US fly via other European hubs like CPH, LHR, FRA

Andaman, you just found the market for DL from HELBig grin Seriously, why do th Finns have to always fly thru some European city to get to the USA? AY's HEL-JFK service is clearly designed for Russia & Baltics/Easter European market with such a late departure time (2.20pm). At that time the Finns are already half way through the flight sitting on SK, KL, LH, AF and others flights. Definitely a chance for DL, JFK-HEL on 752 or ATL-HEL on 763. Just target the Finns, and it will be a success!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 46):
The other possible downgrade is JFK-TXL, at least for the winter. Even AMS, BRU, or FRA from JFK could use the downgrade during the deep winter.

TXL-JFK is going to have a real hard time making it on a consistent basis in the winter. That's really taxing the range of the 752.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
PA101
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RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:32 am

By the way, even though slightly OT, how is TXL-JFK doing? Well, fairly, or poorly???