tommybp251b
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Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:37 pm

Hi Everybody!

Why do Boeing airplanes in contrast to the Airbus ones never take part at flight demonstrations during airshows like Paris or Farnborough?

Is there a special reason behind it?

Thank you for any answers.

Tom
Tom from Cologne
 
legoguy
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:41 pm

Boeing doesn't really have any aircraft themselves to fly at airshows. Where as Airbus has several prototypes such as the A343, A346 and an A320 which are used at airshows.

However some airlines will fly their boeing aircraft at airshows. Examples include South African Airways 747 (At Duxford?) and DHL 757 at the Royal International Air Tattoo in 2005.

Also EVA did send a new 777-300ER to farnborough although it was not flying.

Can we expect to see the 787 and 747-8I flying at an airshow such as Paris or Farnborough... I hope so  Smile
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shamrock350
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 1):
Examples include South African Airways 747 (At Duxford?)

Not sure about Duxford but it was ta the 2004 Farnborough airshow however I didn't see it at the 2006 show.
 
legoguy
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 2):
Not sure about Duxford but it was ta the 2004 Farnborough airshow however I didn't see it at the 2006 show.

I just looked it up, It was at Duxford 2003.

Heres the video of it...



and of the DHL 757 at RIAT 2005



Also, the year I was there, BA chartered a flight into Fairford which was great to see a 747 landing up close!
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EI321
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 2):
Quoting Legoguy (Reply 1):
Examples include South African Airways 747 (At Duxford?)

Not sure about Duxford but it was ta the 2004 Farnborough airshow however I didn't see it at the 2006 show.

The SA 744 flew in from LHR and then back. It did not land IIRC.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:07 am

It does that great spiral climb at shows. I remember watching it head back to LHR and about half an hour later we drove past LHR and it was sitting at it's usual stand like it had been there all day!
I would have loved to see the EVA 777 do it but it made a high speed taxi and that was it when I was at FAB last year.
 
philb
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:50 am

Boeing has demonstrated many airliners and military aircraft in the flying displays at both Farnborough and Paris over the years. For some reason it has focused more on static displays of airliners recently but there doesn't seem to be a particular reason.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:20 am

I remember watching a NZ 747-400 do a low level flyby at OSH in 1998 before landing at the airshow...followed shortly by the Concorde  Smile
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United787
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:36 am

I have a great idea. If anyone works at Boeing, please forward this to the appropriate parties.

Since Boeing is located in downtown Chicago and the Chicago Air & Water Show will happen around the time that the 787 will be taking its first flight(Aug 18-19), they should do a fly-by!

AND... if United orders the 787, to celebrate the order and United's move to downtown Chicago, they could do it in United's colors! Big grin  bouncy 
 
lvhgel
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:51 am

Because since the test pilot of the B720 prototype "who was selling planes" did a barrel roll without any heads up to the company execs., they decided to avoid such a maneuver in an air show by not flying demo planes in them...  spin 
 
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N328KF
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting LVHGEL (Reply 9):
Because since the test pilot of the B720 prototype "who was selling planes" did a barrel roll without any heads up to the company execs., they decided to avoid such a maneuver in an air show by not flying demo planes in them...

You may be thinking of Alvin Johnston, chief test pilot on the 367-80, which directly became the C-135 and indirectly became the 707/720.
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Leezyjet
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:03 am

I had heard the reason was that the flight protection envelope on the Airbus is better than the one Boeing has so the Airbus is able to put in a better display than what a Boeing could, therefore Boeing will not display against Airbus as it could lead to the public thinking the Boeing was inferior in some way.

From what I understand the Airbus FBW will not let the pilot take the a/c outside the safe operating range, whereas the Boeing version will sound a warning but the pilot is able to override it and potentially take the a/c outside the envelope and if that happened at an airshow and a Boeing a/c crashed, the consequences could be devastating for them.

 Smile
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lvhgel
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:08 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
You may be thinking of Alvin Johnston, chief test pilot on the 367-80, which directly became the C-135 and indirectly became the 707/720.

yup, thanks...

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
From what I understand the Airbus FBW will not let the pilot take the a/c outside the safe operating range, whereas the Boeing version will sound a warning but the pilot is able to override it and potentially take the a/c outside the envelope and if that happened at an airshow and a Boeing a/c crashed, the consequences could be devastating for them.

more or less my thougth tong in cheek..
 
MrChips
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
From what I understand the Airbus FBW will not let the pilot take the a/c outside the safe operating range, whereas the Boeing version will sound a warning but the pilot is able to override it and potentially take the a/c outside the envelope and if that happened at an airshow and a Boeing a/c crashed, the consequences could be devastating for them.

Airbus' FBW system isn't some magical device that allows a pilot to throw an airplane around yet will prevent a crash so we can all live happily ever after. The thing is, airshow flying entails a substantially increased risk of an accident no matter what type of aircraft you fly. I would hazard a guess that Boeing feels the gains made by a flying display are far outweighed by the risks involved.
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bigjku
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
From what I understand the Airbus FBW will not let the pilot take the a/c outside the safe operating range, whereas the Boeing version will sound a warning but the pilot is able to override it and potentially take the a/c outside the envelope and if that happened at an airshow and a Boeing a/c crashed, the consequences could be devastating for them.

Didn't an Airbus guy crash a 330 at an airshow? I call BS on this reasoning.
 
Asturias
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:21 am

Oh I am sure in the near future this will change. There could be a million reasons that Boeing isn't currently appearing on airshows like Airbus does, but it's probably some very simple main reason. I'm not going to hazard a guess. The reason doesn't really matter.

I'm sure that with the arrival of the B787 this will change. They will show that plane on every airshow they can and in its wake, perhaps even the other models as well.

Technical creativity, listening to the customer needs and marketing catapulted Airbus from being a company with 0% marketshare to a company with 50+% marketshare.

saludos

Asturias
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Leezyjet
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:22 am

It was actually an A320 in the very early days back in the 80's, and it wasn't a problem with the FBW, it was human error by the pilot.

 Smile
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bigjku
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 16):
It was actually an A320 in the very early days back in the 80's, and it wasn't a problem with the FBW, it was human error by the pilot.

So a pilot can make an error and crash an Airbus and a pilot can make an error and crash a Boeing, so what would this have to do with keeping Boeings further away from airshows?
 
474218
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:30 am

Why would a flying demonstration at an airshow effluence an operators decision on buying an airliner? So what of an airliner can do high banked turns and rapid climbs. These are not realistic how the aircraft will be used in service.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 17):
So a pilot can make an error and crash an Airbus and a pilot can make an error and crash a Boeing, so what would this have to do with keeping Boeings further away from airshows?

I think the argument was that Boeing doesn't think it's worth the risk, putting the airplane through multiple stresses just to woo a crowd. They're more interested in selling airplanes.
 
lvhgel
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:37 am

May be.. caution?

Now seriously and thinking as the business owner that I am, it bore down to numbers, how much does it cost to perform at an air show, against the potential customer exposure the show can deliver. Now with the 787 like it has been said before things might change, remember it's a totally new technology for an airliner. I do not know what will happen (maybe...) when the media began talking (probably without any insight) about the "plastic plane", in this case Boeing will need to make some PR showing the machine in all it's splendor at every available venue.
 
legoguy
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 14):
Didn't an Airbus guy crash a 330 at an airshow? I call BS on this reasoning.

As Leezyjet says, it was an A320.

I still believe it's because Boeing doesn't have any prototype aircraft within their pocession. The 757 and 767 were used for testing the F22 and the first production 777 is flying with some airline somewhere. The only aircraft Airbus flies at airshows are the A320, A340-600 and the A380... all aircraft are first production aircraft.

Therefore I believe if Boeing had retained first production aircraft, they too would be flying them at airshows.
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
From what I understand the Airbus FBW will not let the pilot take the a/c outside the safe operating range, whereas the Boeing version will sound a warning but the pilot is able to override it and potentially take the a/c outside the envelope

On Boeing FBW airplanes, the main pilot cue that the airplane has reached the edges of the flight protection envelope is a significant increase in control force. The pilot can over ride these higher force levels, but if the levels are respected, the Boeing system provides the same level of protection as the Airbus system.

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
I had heard the reason was that the flight protection envelope on the Airbus is better than the one Boeing has so the Airbus is able to put in a better display than what a Boeing could


Neither the Airbus system or the Boeing system are magic. Both will allow the pilot to crash the airplane if good airmanship is not practiced as per your quote below.

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 16):
It was actually an A320 in the very early days back in the 80's, and it wasn't a problem with the FBW, it was human error by the pilot.

The A330 crash also mentioned was not at an airshow, but it was during a customer demonstration flight. The pilot was Nick Warner, the Airbus Chief Pilot at the time. He was a personal friend. By the way, from the 707 through the 777, Boeing has never lost an airplane during flight testing (knock on wood).

I think the reason Boeing doesn't fly at air shows is because the air show maneuvers have little to do with the way the airplane is operated in service and they do add an additional element of risk, however slight.

[Edited 2007-04-16 23:48:17]
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breiz
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 21):
Quoting BigJKU (Reply 14):
Didn't an Airbus guy crash a 330 at an airshow? I call BS on this reasoning.

As Leezyjet says, it was an A320.

Looks to be a mix of info here.
An A330 operated by Airbus did crashed, but it was during a test flight at Toulouse. Pilot error (MSN 042 F-WWKH Toulouse 30 Jun 94). A memory monument is erected on the side of the runway.
And an A320 crashed at a local airshow, but it was an Air France plane. Pilot error again (MSN 009 F-GFKC at Mulhouse/Habsheim on 26 Mar 88)

Note: here is a link to the memorial at Toulouse:
http://www.pixaviation.info/cpg/displayimage.php?album=41&pos=6

[Edited 2007-04-17 00:06:22]
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:04 am

Quoting Philb (Reply 6):
For some reason it has focused more on static displays of airliners recently but there doesn't seem to be a particular reason.

I've seen several articles on this subject, and the main reason given for Boeing's cutback in flying displays at airshows such as Farnborough and Paris was to reduce costs. Participating in these shows is very expensive even without the flying displays and I believe they determined that flying the aircraft had no impact on sales.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
I had heard the reason was that the flight protection envelope on the Airbus is better than the one Boeing has so the Airbus is able to put in a better display than what a Boeing could, therefore Boeing will not display against Airbus as it could lead to the public thinking the Boeing was inferior in some way.

What on earth is that supposed to mean? The A380 at one air-show (I think at Dubai) did a fly by at absolute minimum speed, with flaps at full, and the plane pitched up some 15 degrees. Did that lead the public to thinking the A380 has bad FBW? No. It instead impressed the public.

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 11):
From what I understand the Airbus FBW will not let the pilot take the a/c outside the safe operating range, whereas the Boeing version will sound a warning but the pilot is able to override it and potentially take the a/c outside the envelope and if that happened at an airshow and a Boeing a/c crashed, the consequences could be devastating for them.

First of all, FBW is a system that is designed to be used in case of pilot error, which seldom happens, especially with Boeing and Airbus pilots. Boeing and Airbus pilots in fact are LEAST likely to do anything that would require use of FBW. Once, a Boeing pilot even did a full barrel roll with a 707 at an air-show.

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 14):

Didn't an Airbus guy crash a 330 at an airshow? I call BS on this reasoning.

An A330 prototype crashed back in 1990 I think. It was in TLS. The crash was because of test pilot error, and was not at an air-show and had nothing to do with FBW.


Also, Boeing does fly their military aircraft at the air-show. I guess they keep their commercial planes on the ground to give more opportunities to various airlines (the "public" who actually matters) to tour the planes.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 25):
An A330 prototype crashed back in 1990 I think. It was in TLS. The crash was because of test pilot error, and was not at an air-show and had nothing to do with FBW.

It was June 30, 1994, and the 7 crew killed in that crash are the only A330/340 fatalities to date.
 
ONTFlyer
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:55 am

Wasn't there a NZ Air Force 757 that performed an awesome display a little while back? I remember watching that video in amazement. Also, as someone stated before Boeing still produces military jets that perfom in airshows around the world. Namley the F-18 Super Hornet.

ONT
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United787
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting ONTFlyer (Reply 27):
Wasn't there a NZ Air Force 757 that performed an awesome display a little while back?

I think this is the 757 rocket video you are referring to although I found several other Air New Zealand Air Force 757 Rocket displays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0vf-LpwDqE
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:14 pm

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 1):
Boeing doesn't really have any aircraft themselves to fly at airshows. Where as Airbus has several prototypes such as the A343, A346 and an A320 which are used at airshows.

does Boeing or Airbus ever send their planes to the airshow at LSV? i didnt make it to see last year....whatever happenend to Boeing's prototypes?
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jasond
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:19 pm

QF did display a 7378 at the Pearce Show in November 2005 which wasn't too exciting with just a couple of simple flybys. Saying that Cathay also displayed an A330 and it was absolutly amazing!!!
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 28):
Air New Zealand Air Force 757 Rocket displays.

While Air NZ might be bigger then the NZ air force which the lezzo who runs that country basically reduced
to nothing, the Royal New Zealand Air Force, I assure you, Is NOT operated by Air New Zealand.
 
B757FAN
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:31 pm

It's quite simple. They feel they have a product they can sell without the need of building extra aircraft strictly for use in air show demonstrations. Their airplanes have proven themselves over the years. Look at the 747, 727, 737, 757 and so on. Only a few models have failed to sell well. No airline manufacturer is perfect with each and every airplane model they make. Some have good points and in a few cases some bad ones that keep it from selling well.
 
ONTFlyer
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 28):
I think this is the 757 rocket video you are referring to

That's the one, thank you for finding the vid.

ONT
Doin' just fine thanks...
 
CaptainTim
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:00 pm

do you think there is a chance that the Boeing 787 or Boeing will bring a demo aircraft to Asian Aerospace 2007 in September?

Airbus brought the A380 to Asian Aerospace in 2006 in Singapore.. is there a possiblity or any ideas?

thanks
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NWA742
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:02 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 8):
they could do it in United's colors!

A United 787 - now that would be a beautiful aircraft. I hope UA orders them - I bet they will eventually.




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philb
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:59 pm

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 14):
Didn't an Airbus guy crash a 330 at an airshow?



Quoting B757fan (Reply 32):
It's quite simple. They feel they have a product they can sell without the need of building extra aircraft strictly for use in air show demonstrations. Their airplanes have proven themselves over the years. Look at the 747, 727, 737, 757 and so on. Only a few models have failed to sell well. No airline manufacturer is perfect with each and every airplane model they make. Some have good points and in a few cases some bad ones that keep it from selling well.

No-one builds extra aircraft strictly for airshow demonstration.

Boeing have regularly flown prototype and early production examples of various types at airshows, as well as later aircraft prior to customer delivery, when it has been deemed important to do so..
 
Max777geek
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:08 pm

Quoting TommyBP251b (Thread starter):
Why do Boeing airplanes in contrast to the Airbus ones never take part at flight demonstrations during airshows like Paris or Farnborough?

Because they don't need to show they are better  rotfl 
 
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zeke
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:31 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 22):
The A330 crash also mentioned was not at an airshow, but it was during a customer demonstration flight. The pilot was Nick Warner, the Airbus Chief Pilot at the time. He was a personal friend.

It was not a demo flight, it was a certification flight for the PW4164.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 25):
Once, a Boeing pilot even did a full barrel roll with a 707 at an air-show.

It was not an airshow.

Quoting Jasond (Reply 30):
Saying that Cathay also displayed an A330 and it was absolutly amazing!!!

CX has a lot of ex red arrow, bluebird, roulettes and other very capable people, that along with a very capable aircraft makes for a good display.
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kappel
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 21):
the A320

Actually, the last couple of shows Airbus has flown the a318. They show the smallest, largest and longest aircraft they have. (a318, a346 and a380).
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StarGoldLHR
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:57 pm

I think it's the same reason all companies in the US stop doing any show of any kind that might be considered different...

They dont want to do something that puts them at risk of a lawsuit.

Europeans are less afraid of the risk, as are europeans more forgiving in event of error
US media would have a field day if anything happened to a Boeing show, but wouldnt care after a day or two for an airbus show, or one outside the US.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 38):
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 25):
Once, a Boeing pilot even did a full barrel roll with a 707 at an air-show.

It was not an airshow.

And it wasn't (quite) a 707. It was the 367-80 prototype, from which stemmed the 707 and the 717.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
bohica
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:38 pm

Why waste the fuel? No airline is going to base their buying decision on a fly-by. (The 367-80 might have been an exception)  Smile
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:51 pm

I think Boeing are just tight.

Airbus are in the middle of a financial crisis - they need all the PR they can get. Boeing is cruising along quite comfortably so has no need to "impress". Plus, the 787 won't be ready for Paris this year and even if it was, it would probably be parked as a static display anyway.

Thanks
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DAYflyer
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:56 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 22):
I think the reason Boeing doesn't fly at air shows is because the air show maneuvers have little to do with the way the airplane is operated in service and they do add an additional element of risk, however slight.

A good policy in my opinion.
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:39 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 38):
Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 22):
The A330 crash also mentioned was not at an airshow, but it was during a customer demonstration flight. The pilot was Nick Warner, the Airbus Chief Pilot at the time. He was a personal friend.

It was not a demo flight, it was a certification flight for the PW4164.

While the PW 4164 A330 was undergoing flight testing at the time, there were two Alitalia captains on the airplane at the time to observe the airplane's performance. If the flight had been purely certification, the captains would not have been present.

See the links below that confirm the presence of these captains.
Ever Been Accident During Testing Of New Aircraft? (by Rooinc Oct 23 2003 in Civil Aviation) See Reply 4. (This reply is slightly in error as it says the incident involved an engine failure. The engine failure was actually simulated as is stated in Reply 7. The error is acknowledged in Reply 13.)

http://www.kls2.com/cgi-bin/arcfetch...ers.1994.1409@ohare.chicago.com%3E
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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zeke
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:57 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 45):
While the PW 4164 A330 was undergoing flight testing at the time, there were two Alitalia captains on the airplane at the time to observe the airplane's performance. If the flight had been purely certification, the captains would not have been present

It was a pure certification flight, it airframe/engine combination was not certified, the pilots you mentioned were onboard, so were other Airbus observers, it was allowed at the time.

See http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publ...mAndRep/A330-Toulouse/Rapport.html
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:23 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 46):
It was a pure certification flight, it airframe/engine combination was not certified, the pilots you mentioned were onboard, so were other Airbus observers, it was allowed at the time.

Are you saying an airplane needs to be certified to give a demonstration flight? I can assure you, lot of demonstration flying occurs prior to certification. You only need to look to the A380 demo tours prior to 12/06 for evidence of that.

Or are you saying that the Alitalia pilots were part of the certification effort? If so, then what was their role?

Obviously, with the Alitalia pilots on board, the flight was accomplishing more than pure certification.
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zeke
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 47):
Are you saying an airplane needs to be certified to give a demonstration flight?

Nope, the 330 was certified at the time, just not that engine/airframe combination. The Alitalia pilots role were as observers as per the report above.

I suspect Alitalia were looking at the 330 at the time, and accepted an invitation to back seat that flight.

The purpose of the flight was for the PW4164. The flight test schedule was in place, the flight would have gone ahead with or without the Alitalia pilots onboard, it should have been a routine box ticking certification flight.
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chuchoteur
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RE: Why Is Boeing Never Flying On Airshows?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:43 pm

More importantly, the test flight was classified as a 3, ie low risk, authorising observers on board.

The interim report correctly said that the flight was borderline class 2 (no non-essential observers) and class 3, with the class 3 classification being acceptable given the parameters at the time.
It did however suggest that if a flight was "borderline", a higher classification should be favoured, and I guess that that is learning from experience...

I think that in some instances, it would be interesting for Boeing to do display flights at airshows, the B777 would surely be able to do a good display!